Has Putin Done The Right Thing?

[Ferg]

News Article (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/06/28/iraq.putin/)

The article states that Putin has ordered his soldiers to kill, the Iraqi's that killed 4 Russian diplomats. I think he has. He has not said, kill everyone in al-Qaeda or kill all the Iraqi terrorists, he as specifically said, kill the Iraqi's responsible for the death of these 4 diplomats and frankly they should suffer. Putin made it clear that he will not negotiate with terrorists and therefore, the Iraqi's responsible should of used their heads and not piss off Putin like that.

[Phalanx]

What exactly were the motives behind killing the Russian diplomats? I had thought Russia was against the war in Iraq.

[Ferg]

Pull troops out of Chechneya

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Wouldn't be suprised if the U.S. was behind the execution.

[Janus]

How exactly could they find the specific people behind it without killing perhaps some people who had nothing to do with it. Yes, I know Russian intelligence is pretty good (or at least was) but this type of precision is doubtful at best.

[Ferg]

Israel was able to kill thsoe responsible for the killing at the Olympic in 72 I believe. It's very possible to find out who they are and kill them. I'm sure Russia will be able to find out who these terroists are and kill them secretly, silently, and without remorse.

[Anton]

The way I see it, that's something Putin will say to impress the Russian people. In reality, neither him nor the other other people of his government couldn't care less about the lives of these diplomats.
And as someone above said, it would not be surprising if America is behind these executions. After all, when some Russian workers where captured earlier in Iraq, they were released once their kidnappers realized their naitonality....

[Ferg]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 07:29 PM
The way I see it, that's something Putin will say to impress the Russian people. In reality, neither him nor the other other people of his government couldn't care less about the lives of these diplomats.
And as someone above said, it would not be surprising if America is behind these executions. After all, when some Russian workers where captured earlier in Iraq, they were released once their kidnappers realized their naitonality....
I don't know man, Putin really does not like terrorists, I think he hates them more than Bush (I don't think Bush actually hates the terrorists). I mean look at the terrorist act in Russia that is freshest in my mind, that would be the hostage taking at the school. When al-Queda flew the planes into buildings, most of the victims were adults where as in the hostage taking, they were all kids and a few adults. I think Putin has a reason to be pissed, especially since the demands were free Chechneya.

"Russia does not negoiate with terrorists, it destroys them" - Vladimir Putin

[Anton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 07:52 PM
I don't know man, Putin really does not like terrorists, I think he hates them more than Bush (I don't think Bush actually hates the terrorists). I mean look at the terrorist act in Russia that is freshest in my mind, that would be the hostage taking at the school. When al-Queda flew the planes into buildings, most of the victims were adults where as in the hostage taking, they were all kids and a few adults. I think Putin has a reason to be pissed, especially since the demands were free Chechneya.

you may have a point
but I still do not believe that Putin would actually care that much....
And since you mention the Beslan school, look at the way that raid was carried out. The troops killed more children then the terrorists, all because the raid was rushed just in order to acheive an appreciation by the people of the politicians. The same applies to that theater in Moscow.
If the government doesn't even care for those hostages and is willing to openly risk their lives just to "win the battle", why would they actually risk jeopardizing their relationships with the countries that occupied Iraq just to "avenge" the killing of some diplomats?

Now I am of Russian decent and have lived in the USSR, Russia and neighbouring countries and have some experience with how things work over there, and that experienc is what made me make my presumptions about the reasons of this statement

[Ferg]

You make a valid point. Perhaps though, the reason for those raids being botched was because they were rushed due to civilian pressure. My argument still stands though. I believe Putin ordered this, not out of revenge but out of hate. He hates Chechnyans, and their sympathizers have killed Russians so I think it is a matter of hate and Putin wanting to see the demise of them. I think this argument is someone fruitless though and we will just have to see what plays out.

[Janus]

Israel was able to kill thsoe responsible for the killing at the Olympic in 72 I believe.
The situation is a bit different here. The Russians will have to look for these people in a war zone. The US can't even figure who or where the insurgents are so unless Russian intel. is really good in Iraq, they're going to have problems. So there is a possibility that they may kill people unconnected with the killings.

[Ferg]

True, but then again, who knows, but Putin will not be at fault, it will be Russian intellegence

[Cheung Mo]

Putin's policies:

Oppress Muslims
Work with Stalinists, fascists, and religious wackos to oppress Homosexuals
Have a schizo relationship with Dumbya
Censor the press

[Ferg]

I need a source on that one man, that is a really bold statement to make without evidence to back it up.

[Janus]

Oppress Muslims
He is definitely doing that in Chechyna. Just look up stuff on that and you will hear about what is being done there.


but Putin will not be at fault, it will be Russian intellegence
Yeah, I'm just saying that it may not be as clean as Putin believes it to be.

[Gojo]

Don't like the man but I give him one thing he can be mercyless. That's the thing Russians always had somewhere inside- that fanatic brutality,

[Ferg]

I always respected Putin, because, he took a democratic Russia, and slowly moved towards the left slowly. He also has zero tolerance for terrorism and has put up a good fight against it. He's also a badass Judo Martial Artist.

[Anton]

Yeah, I have a lot of respect for the man as well, although some things he is doing I am against. The treatmenr of Muslims is abhorrent.
But Russia seemed to always need a strong leader and well, that is one thing he is. Especially now that the US is making their best effort and often succeeding to alienate the countries, the citizens of which have been brothers to Russian for years and years (Ukraine, Georgia, Baltic States).
BTW, what's your take on the recent events with NATO and Ukraine? I was personally very proud of my brothers in Krym.

[Janus]

and slowly moved towards the left slowly
Russia is more capitalist than ever, how exactly has he implemented leftist policies?

[Janus]

Well, the Russians are offering a reward for info. related to the killings which shows that they probably don't have many clues to go on.

$10m reward to find Iraq killers (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5133644.stm)

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 04:28 AM
The situation is a bit different here. The Russians will have to look for these people in a war zone. The US can't even figure who or where the insurgents are so unless Russian intel. is really good in Iraq, they're going to have problems. So there is a possibility that they may kill people unconnected with the killings.
Don't put it past them. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ivan has a much clearer picture of events in Iraq than the US. All the expensive rquipment the Americans use simply tells them that the "terrorists" aren't on the rooftops.

[Janus]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ivan has a much clearer picture of events in Iraq than the US.
yeah, the Russians have been interested in Iraq for some time now. But from the recent reports about them offering a reward and all, that just seems to show that they have many clues.


All the expensive rquipment the Americans use simply tells them that the "terrorists" aren't on the rooftops.
:lol:

[ComradeOm]

Well rewards are useful in that they actually work. Its been the one US counter-insurgency tactic that actually produces results. Fact is that money talks.

I'd be highly surprised however if that were the complete extent of Russian intelligence's search for these men.

[Janus]

Well rewards are useful in that they actually work. Its been the one US counter-insurgency tactic that actually produces results. Fact is that money talks.
Depends on the organization of course. It hasn't worked on Osama though it may work on these lower level insurgents.

[ComradeOm]

Osama’s out taking long healthy walks in the mountains. In Iraq there’s a lot more people who, thanks to the US, are pretty much broke. Someone will see something or know something especially in Baghdad or other urban centres. After that its just a matter of making sure the reward to large enough to risk getting shot.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

How is Russia sending special forces? Has Iraqi govt. approved this?

[Janus]

How is Russia sending special forces?
They will probably sneak agents in.


Has Iraqi govt. approved this?
:lol: Doubtful but what can they do? They would probably support it, it might take out one less enemy for them.

[Vladislav]

He sometimes does he right thing and sometimes does the wrong thing.

wrong > right.

He's a fuck up.

[Red Polak]

Originally posted by Cheung [email protected] 30 2006, 03:42 PM
Putin's policies:

Oppress Muslims
Work with Stalinists, fascists, and religious wackos to oppress Homosexuals
Have a schizo relationship with Dumbya
Censor the press
Let the nazis do what the fuck they want
stop immigration



on topic:
If they know who did it then fair enough, kill them without mercy for killing the diplomats - diplomats should be out of bounds.

and this is just barbaric and disgusting:
"A video also posted on the Web site appeared to show one of the men being beheaded, another man already beheaded and one of them while he is being shot in the head. The fourth man did not appear in the video."
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/06/28/iraq.putin/

If they don't know though, then it could result in many deaths of innocent civilians and even more hatred being stirred up against the west.


I side with Putin on this.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by White Polak
Let the nazis do what the fuck they want
stop immigration

You support nazi pushes to stop immigration?

[Red Polak]

Originally posted by Black Dagger+Jul 1 2006, 06:17 PM--> (Black Dagger @ Jul 1 2006, 06:17 PM)
White Polak
Let the nazis do what the fuck they want
stop immigration

You support nazi pushes to stop immigration? [/b]
what the hell?

no!

Cheung Mo gave a list of Putin's policies, I gave 2 more of them. Of course I don't support him stopping immigration into Russia or allowing nazis to get away with what the fuck they want. and I don't appreciate the rather obvious slur by you. :angry:



And get my fucking name right - you're the one who feels the need to classify your race in your name, black "nationalist" (yeah right!) not me so get the fuck over it, alright.

[Ferg]

Putin is trying to crack down on the Nazi skinheads.

[Red Polak]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 02:52 AM
Putin is trying to crack down on the Nazi skinheads.
oh really?

If skinheads attack people (lefties, non-Russians etc), perhaps even murder them, then the skins are only getting charged with hooliganism not murder or GBH. This is pretty much protecting them from the real law - I wouldn't regard that as "cracking down". Sure Putin set up some "let's-help-to-keep-Putin-in-power" youth group, but really, it's shite and does nothing against the raising skinhead problems.

There's also the fact that Putin's not exactly welcoming immigration to Russia (despite the dire need with the declining population atm) and what happened at a recent gay pride parade.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Red Polak+--> (Red Polak)Cheung Mo gave a list of Putin's policies, I gave 2 more of them. Of course I don't support him stopping immigration into Russia or allowing nazis to get away with what the fuck they want. and I don't appreciate the rather obvious slur by you[/b]

I apologise, that wasnt clear to me.


Red Polak

And get my fucking name right - you're the one who feels the need to classify your race in your name, black "nationalist" (yeah right!) not me so get the fuck over it, alright.

Er, no, the black is for anarchism, im not a black nationalist :wacko:

[MiniOswald]

oh putin that krazy little dude.

Not quite sure why hes making such a fuss about this matter.

Perhaps its got a little PR twist to it, Putin comes off looking as the determined leader whos willing to goto any lengths to protect his people, or at least thats whats hoped.

On the other hand I guess hes thinking in terms of deterrant, nothing says get keep fuck off my diplomats like hunting people down and butchering them.

Im not that arsed if they kill the correct people, just a bunch of religious nutters.

Who knows maybe he really does just feel its the just thing to do.