Cars And Parking Places. Who Can Park

[apathy maybe]

After thinking abit on a book I rather enjoy (The Anarchist Colossus by A E VAN VOGT, science fiction with both obvious subtle political messages), I thought about the problem of car parking.

(A brief run down on the book, an anarchist society is implemented with the help of technology that has the ability to recognise emotions and actions. Aliens invade. (It is not a utopian society or even a leftist anarchist society actually.)

In the book if you leave a car in a designated area for too long you get fined and if you do not pay, your car doesn't work. How in an anarchist society (or post "transitional period" Marxist society) would we prevent people from leaving their (put quotes around the their if you want) car in a desirable spot all day?

Currently there is a system of parking metres and parking officials who travel around and make sure that all the cars have been paid to be in that spot. But in an anarchist society there would not exist all the bullshit of courts, police etc. So what do we do? (I am assuming a non-technical fix for this potential problem.)

[STI]

In the book if you leave a car in a designated area for too long you get fined and if you do not pay, your car doesn't work. How in an anarchist society (or post "transitional period" Marxist society) would we prevent people from leaving their (put quotes around the their if you want) car in a desirable spot all day?

See, that's exactly the thing... there is no "their". You tried to side-step it, but it's the core of the issue.

Since cars wouldn't "belong" to anybody, they could just pick them up and drop them off at big parking depots placed near... well, wherever they're needed. So, you drop a car off, no sweat, then take another one home.

[EusebioScrib]

Since cars wouldn't "belong" to anybody, they could just pick them up and drop them off at big parking depots placed near... well, wherever they're needed. So, you drop a car off, no sweat, then take another one home.

No, there is no need to "share toothbrushes", as the ole saying goes, in communism. There is the capability for everyone to have their own car, no need to "share." That's the whole point of communism, not sharing, but that we all can have some.

However, I think the use of a car as we know it today will be drastically different in communist society. Public transportation will be at a higher quality than we know it today and be much more available and accessable. Cars may be necessary only under certain circumstances (travel for instance) and will not be used all that much.

[STI]

No, there is no need to "share toothbrushes"

That's another situation entirely.

Nobody would have any reason to take somebody else's toothbruth... but they'd be free to if they *really wanted*.

No biggie though, since it's not a problem to get a brand new toothbrush.

Lucky me.


There is the capability for everyone to have their own car, no need to "share." That's the whole point of communism, not sharing, but that we all can have some.

In areas without a very dense population, that's probably true.

To avoid congestion in major urban centres, though, I'd expect the number of cars per capita to be significantly lower.

Especially once we develop teleportation technology.

Ignore that.

[EusebioScrib]

Especially once we develop teleportation technology.

Ignore that.

Pssh, why would I?! Your talking to a transhumanist. I'm all for teleportation ;)

Beam me up, Scotty :rolleyes:

[STI]

I just can't wait for the day that we all get sucked into a vortex and are able to be beamed up our own asses.

[EusebioScrib]

and are able to be beamed up our own asses.


I dunno what kinda fetish you got, but I would find that a rather unpleasant experience :lol:

[STI]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 11:00 AM

and are able to be beamed up our own asses.


I dunno what kinda fetish you got, but I would find that a rather unpleasant experience :lol:
...Now that we've completely demolished any potential for real discussion in this thread...

[Janus]

Yeah...could we please keep the spam to the nonpolitical forums?



But in an anarchist society there would not exist all the bullshit of courts, police etc. So what do we do?
I'm assuming that you're talking about a more urban area. In my view, there will be a lot more car pooling or use of public transportation in the future.

People could probably organize this kind of system on their own as they become more aware of the environmental problems and inconveniences with everyone owning a car. With this in mind, this kind of situation would probably be rare.

However, in the event that we are able to produce much more efficient cars and therefore give every adult or family with one then this kind of situation would be annoying at the most.

Possible solutions would include locating the owner or towing the vehicle if the car is left there for an exceptionally long time.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Uh we could still have meter readers and cars can still get towed in communist society. You wouldn't have to pay a fine but you'd have to go through the pain to get your car back from the lot. I don't really see why this would change as its for "the common good." :lol:

[which doctor]

This is a very odd thread.

I think that cars would be smaller(think Smart Cars, they're coming to America soon, oh yay!) and public transportation would be more widespread.

One of the only reasons I drive a car is because there is NO public transportation around me, besides Amtrak, but that's expensive and often times very inconvenient. Public transportion would hopefully be made more convenient and efficient.


Now, moving back onto topic.

I don't see a problem with someone leaving their car in a desirable spot all day, they got their first didn't they? It's not like it was stolen from someone. Sooner or later they would have to move it, right? When they moved it whoever happened to be driving by looking for a spot would get lucky.

[Delta]

I agree. If they are parked near their house, they deserve to be parked there. If they aren't, well then they are going to have to move it sometime. If they are doing something in the area they should be able to park there for all the while they damn please. I can't stand when I have to pay parking meters now, it's my fucking street.

Now of course is someone was just storing a totaled car there, then you'd have to take care of it.

In any case, I can't imagine this being a very common problem. And I agree that public transportation is likely to be much, much better.

[Ander]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 06:44 AM
Since cars wouldn't "belong" to anybody, they could just pick them up and drop them off at big parking depots placed near... well, wherever they're needed. So, you drop a car off, no sweat, then take another one home.
I'm not trying to offend you, but this has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

[Dyst]

Public transportation, like trams and subways are very cool and effective.

There shouldn't be as many cars in the cities (or places where many live), since this creates traffic jams and pollution, etc. Cars should be used more for semi-long distances, where trains doesn't go.

Bikes are also a good way of transportation through short distances.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Jello+Jun 29 2006, 11:44 AM--> (Jello @ Jun 29 2006, 11:44 AM)
[email protected] 28 2006, 06:44 AM
Since cars wouldn't "belong" to anybody, they could just pick them up and drop them off at big parking depots placed near... well, wherever they're needed. So, you drop a car off, no sweat, then take another one home.
I'm not trying to offend you, but this has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. [/b]
Are you aware that there are already similar programs in urban areas?

[Ander]

Originally posted by Fist of Blood+Jun 29 2006, 01:51 PM--> (Fist of Blood @ Jun 29 2006, 01:51 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 11:44 AM

[email protected] 28 2006, 06:44 AM
Since cars wouldn't "belong" to anybody, they could just pick them up and drop them off at big parking depots placed near... well, wherever they're needed. So, you drop a car off, no sweat, then take another one home.
I'm not trying to offend you, but this has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
Are you aware that there are already similar programs in urban areas? [/b]
People drop off their cars and take other cars home? Where??

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Jello+Jun 29 2006, 11:57 AM--> (Jello @ Jun 29 2006, 11:57 AM)
Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 29 2006, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 11:44 AM

[email protected] 28 2006, 06:44 AM
Since cars wouldn't "belong" to anybody, they could just pick them up and drop them off at big parking depots placed near... well, wherever they're needed. So, you drop a car off, no sweat, then take another one home.
I'm not trying to offend you, but this has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
Are you aware that there are already similar programs in urban areas?
People drop off their cars and take other cars home? Where?? [/b]
Well, people who don't know eachother share cars. They drop them off at specific locations for others to use.

It's common now in large urban areas in America where parking is expensive and hard to come by.

[afrikaNOW]

Originally posted by Fist of Blood+Jun 29 2006, 05:07 PM--> (Fist of Blood @ Jun 29 2006, 05:07 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 29 2006, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 11:44 AM

[email protected] 28 2006, 06:44 AM
Since cars wouldn't "belong" to anybody, they could just pick them up and drop them off at big parking depots placed near... well, wherever they're needed. So, you drop a car off, no sweat, then take another one home.
I'm not trying to offend you, but this has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
Are you aware that there are already similar programs in urban areas?
People drop off their cars and take other cars home? Where??
Well, people who don't know eachother share cars. They drop them off at specific locations for others to use.

It's common now in large urban areas in America where parking is expensive and hard to come by. [/b]
You still havent answered where.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by afrikaNOW+Jun 29 2006, 12:37 PM--> (afrikaNOW @ Jun 29 2006, 12:37 PM)
Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 29 2006, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 29 2006, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 11:44 AM

[email protected] 28 2006, 06:44 AM
Since cars wouldn't "belong" to anybody, they could just pick them up and drop them off at big parking depots placed near... well, wherever they're needed. So, you drop a car off, no sweat, then take another one home.
I'm not trying to offend you, but this has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
Are you aware that there are already similar programs in urban areas?
People drop off their cars and take other cars home? Where??
Well, people who don't know eachother share cars. They drop them off at specific locations for others to use.

It's common now in large urban areas in America where parking is expensive and hard to come by.
You still havent answered where. [/b]
I saw it in Hyde Park, Chicago monday.

[Delta]

I saw it in Hyde Park, Chicago monday

Are you talking about a program like this (http://www.citycarshare.org/)? They have this in my area.

[Ol' Dirty]

Anyway, cars wouldn't be neccasery. Considering the oil depletion factor, and the massive ammounts of pollution that come from cars (can anyone say HUMMER?), they'd be seen as more as a liability than an asset. Besides, there would be better public transportation in a socialist society.

Damn! Now I won't have a place to make out. :(

:D

[Janus]

People drop off their cars and take other cars home? Where??
They've tried it with different types of transportation including bikes as well. Unfortunately, in a capitalist society, there will always be someone who may steal them all and make a profit from it.


Considering the oil depletion factor, and the massive ammounts of pollution that come from cars (can anyone say HUMMER?), they'd be seen as more as a liability than an asset.
Depends on the type of car. There will probably be an alternative fuel source at that point rather than a reliance on oil.

[Ander]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 05:09 PM

I saw it in Hyde Park, Chicago monday

Are you talking about a program like this (http://www.citycarshare.org/)? They have this in my area.
This is something completely different from what FoB was talking about.

[ComradeOm]

Next week: We discuss the possibilities of dogging in a post revolution world.

[OkaCrisis]

Now don't all hate on me at once, but in large urban areas, there should be NO CARS. And therefore NO PARKING on the streets. Cities that are densely populated enough that traffic congestion and pollution are problems, are densely populated enough that you can walk or bike to wherever you have to go. Have to go farther? Transit. People who live in suburbs who want to come into the city should be made to park their cars in big lots by transit stations.

The only people driving downtown should be bus drivers. And in "green" busses, no less. (Also, perhaps public 'taxi cabs', available by appointment, could exist to fill the gaps.)

Anyway, I have a big hunch that the majority of people driving downtown are commuters, coming in to work. If there were jobs in their own cities (i.e. DIVERSITY of LAND USE, not just SPRAWLING fully-detached housing as far as the eye can see) then they could work close to home and ditch thier cars too. Does living and working in the same city sound THAT crazy?!

My point is that the majority of city residents DON'T drive. They can't afford it, and they know that they can't park anywhere anyway. If city residents can't drive in the cities that they live in, then neither should anyone (since it's residents who breathe in the pollution, and it's their taxes that have to pay for the maintenance of the roads and highways of those cities- NOT the surrounding suburbs).

(But of course, all of this only works in a 'socialist' type of society, where public transit is beefed way up. And for delivery and transport reasons, trucks would be the exception to the rule (by permit only! But anyone could apply for a permit, if they wanted to move large/many objects into or out of the city).)

[rouchambeau]

Dude, don't worry about it.

[Rollo]

Wasn't hitler a pseudo communist then? He wanted a piece of Russia where every german could live with the same VW car and same house :/.

[rouchambeau]

Wasn't hitler a pseudo communist then? He wanted a piece of Russia where every german could live with the same VW car and same house :/.

...or you could just read a book writen by a communist and understand what communism is about.

I recomend Karl Marx or Jean Barrot.

[apathy maybe]

Originally posted by STI+--> (STI)

See, that's exactly the thing... there is no "their". You tried to side-step it, but it's the core of the issue.

Since cars wouldn't "belong" to anybody, they could just pick them up and drop them off at big parking depots placed near... well, wherever they're needed. So, you drop a car off, no sweat, then take another one home.[/b]
Honestly you have some strange ideas sometimes. Lets say I drive "my" car to the front of the food warehouse. In it I have "my" latest research into the primitive computer system once known as the Internet. I get some canned goods and a bit of soup mix and chuck it in the car. I then walk down the road to the library and imerse my self in that antiquated technology books. I read for hours as I forget the time.

I come back and find that "my" car has gone! Well it was in a prime parking spot, right outside the distribution centre. But the thing is that someone else has taken it! With all "my" research! And my means of transpot home (I live in the country)! Oh well, I'll just take this other car that is sitting here. Hey look someone is coming, but as no one owns anything, I'll take it.


Originally posted by Janus+--> (Janus)Possible solutions would include locating the owner or towing the vehicle if the car is left there for an exceptionally long time.[/b] Thank you. These are the sort of ideas that I was looking for. Having a centralised location for towed cars would be good. I'm sure there could be a crew of road cleaners that doubled as car towers.


Fist of [email protected]
I don't see a problem with someone leaving their car in a desirable spot all day, they got their first didn't they? It's not like it was stolen from someone. Sooner or later they would have to move it, right? When they moved it whoever happened to be driving by looking for a spot would get lucky.Do you also don't care about reading someone elses mail? If it is a prime spot (see example above), then it is "common good" as violencia.Proletariat said.


rouchambeau
Dude, don't worry about it.
Sure, I won't worry about it then. Actually I will still worry about potential anti-social acts in an anarchist society. After all, we won't have a police force to "fix" these problems.


Aditionally to all those who propose public transport and bikes. Yes I agree that cars will be fewer. But If a person is living in the country and comes into the city for the day, they might still use a car to get to and fro.