Post-revolutionary Racism

[Ricardo]

I might be wrong but i think it is many people's on this sites idea that racism will cease to exist after the revolution, because there will be no reason for people to believe in it or something. But, what about the people who are already racist, won't they just spread hate on to their kids? How do you guys think racism can be completely defeated?

[Cult of Reason]

They cannot spread the crap in the post-revolutionary society if we kill them in the revolution...

[Ander]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 11:52 PM
They cannot spread the crap in the post-revolutionary society if we kill them in the revolution...
Ok, thanks but no thanks Captain Gulag.

No shit there will be racists after a revolution...whoever thinks that after the overthrow of capitalism the earth will be a magical happy land of pink bunnies and peace and love is seriously not thinking correctly. But the good part is that they will get their asses kicked and be completely excluded from society.

[which doctor]

The revolution must also happen in the minds of the people involved with it to be successful. It cannot be just a shift of power from the bourgeois to the people.

The revolution needs to be a drastic change, not only in the physical sense, but it must also be a drastic change in the mindset of the people involved.

[EusebioScrib]

Racism's death is more of a precondition to revolution. Racism will die as the working class valorizes itself (self-valorization). Of course isolated insidents may occur, but it won't exist as strong as it is today. It cannot get any stronger. It's slowly dying, fortunately.

[afrikaNOW]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 04:28 AM
Racism's death is more of a precondition to revolution. Racism will die as the working class valorizes itself (self-valorization). Of course isolated insidents may occur, but it won't exist as strong as it is today. It cannot get any stronger. It's slowly dying, fortunately.
Is it really slowly dying?Or is it just becomming less open, because institutional racism still exists.

I think alot of you have a warped vision of what socialist revolution is and the aftermath.

[EusebioScrib]

Is it really slowly dying?Or is it just becomming less open, because institutional racism still exists.

It is dying. People are less and less racist. It is growing more obsolete every day. Life teaches the working class that race is a pointless and defeating distinction. Eventually, when our class grows strong enough, it will virtually disappear from our ranks.


I think alot of you have a warped vision of what socialist revolution is and the aftermath.

Warped? How so? Then what is your vision of revolution and it's aftermath?

[Fidel Follower]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 05:28 AM


It is dying. People are less and less racist. It is growing more obsolete every day. Life teaches the working class that race is a pointless and defeating distinction. Eventually, when our class grows strong enough, it will virtually disappear from our ranks.
Hmmm i would like to think this is true, however i do not agree, it still happens all the time, around me, and doesn't see, to be getting anymore leaniant. So what is your proof?

Or is this just your opinion? :blink:

[Cult of Reason]

Did I mention Gulag? No, I did not. Racists are reactionaries, and hence will most likely fight against the Revolution, and will hence, if the Revolution is successful, be killed both for opposing the liberation and for being racist scum. As for those who are not killed for being racist scum for whatever reason, they would probably be outcast from their communities. If they formed their own communities, their communities would be outcast, so they would at best live a life of squalor.

[Janus]

Racism is generally dying out as people are becoming more aware and open due to globalization. Yes, there is still some institutional racism and isolated incidents going on mainly by people who still believe in certain myths about different races but most of them would mostly be gone after the revolution.

With that in mind, racism will definitely be punished depending on the severity of it in a post-revolutionary society.

[BurnTheOliveTree]

Fidel follower - You need only look at the whole bigotry issue from a historical perspective to be encouraged. All forms of unfair discrimination are steadily declining, but gradually. There are of course, fluctuations and brief anomalies. This does not detract too much from the steady, ultimate decline. Unless there is an enormous event, which means our mindset totally regresses, I see only hope. Even if there was such a turning point, I suspect (Without any real concrete evidence, I must admit) that we would eventually recover and grow back towards tolerance.

For example:

A few hundred years ago, to say women deserved the vote was considered an extremist/lunatic view. You'd probably be ostracized, I wager.

Likewise, coming out as a gay a few hundred years ago would have been a grave mistake. You'd be condemned as a sinner, as a devil worshipper, as all manner of silly things. Keep in mind that this is public opinion, not the opinions of Government and rulers.

And there was even a time where speaking against the slave trade would have been met with scorn.

In modern times though, racist, homophobic and sexist views are met with outright venom and hostility.

Rejoice! The battle is being won. :)

Haraldur - Why do you suggest killing them? That is a moronic idea. I mean, for starters being racist clearly doesn't deserve death, that's overkill. Even if it did though, which it doesn't, you don't think we should even give them one chance to re-think their opinions before butchering them for having opinions we don't like? Garghh! :o


-Alex

[Fidel Follower]

I do agree, with most of your points, you are almost entirely right. However i am afraid to say that Racism among the working-class is not going away, infact i fear that it is growing. In very poor area's where the people are looking for a scape goat for the poverty....is where the BNP step in :angry:

They come in with their bull-shit lies, about how the ethnic minorities are stealing the benefits, and taking the jobs. And in poor areas near me, support for the BNP has doubled...thats what scares me. Maybe on the whole it is being controlled. But i suspect in the deap south of Amerika, Racism is still prominant. Argg kill em&#39; all&#33; <_<

I hope the trend will die out FAST&#33;

[BurnTheOliveTree]

Yeah, I have noticed Nick Griffin and Co. sneak out of the lunatic asylum recently. The trouble is though, IMO, that we do a shit job of exposing them. Mostly, we rage and seethe at them in blind anger... Understandable, but it doesn&#39;t help, you see? Because what they then do is immediately take the platform of freedom of speech, where they are actually right. I mean, they do at least have the right to say things. And all that lets them neatly dodge questions on their ugly little ideas. A better way might be to encourage them to spew their stuff, and then just calmly deliver the obvious refutations. I think at the moment they have this kind of under-dog image, the voices of truth being held down by the PC brigade. And we have to take some blame for that.

That said though, the situation with the BNP is far from desperate. We have the advantage of being clearly correct, remember? :)

I don&#39;t know about utterly eradicating racism, perhaps we will never be truly rid of it. Still, we can get it to the point of being so much on the fringe that it doesn;t really matter, like the flat-earth society or something.

And it&#39;s all very achievable.

-Alex

[Cult of Reason]

Haraldur - Why do you suggest killing them? That is a moronic idea. I mean, for starters being racist clearly doesn&#39;t deserve death, that&#39;s overkill. Even if it did though, which it doesn&#39;t, you don&#39;t think we should even give them one chance to re-think their opinions before butchering them for having opinions we don&#39;t like? Garghh&#33; ohmy.gif

Depends on how likely the racist is to act on the racism. If that individual would act on it then they are a threat during the revolutionary period. Indeed, they WOULD probbly act on it during the revolutionary period as part of the counterrevolution, so aiding us in getting rid of them

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Premise 1: Racism is the result of class structure.
Premise 2: Racism is a form of oppression.
Premise 3: Oppression occurs most in underdeveloped countries.

Premise 3 is based on Lenin&#39;s view that imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism.

From the above premises (assuming you accept them), one can conclude that racism (a form of oppression) is most likely to occur in underdeveloped countries at a higher rate. When capitalism is strongest, racism (occuring moreso under imperialism) will be highest. However, when capitalism is weakening, as it is about to crumble before a revolution, racism will have decreased.

~My bad attempt at philosophical logic. I hope you enjoyed it.

[Ricardo]

so if racism is decreasing, as it seems to be in America and other countries, then are you saying we are on the verge of revolution?

[kurt]

Originally posted by Dooga Aetrus [email protected] 28 2006, 03:28 PM
Premise 1: Racism is the result of class structure.
I don&#39;t think this is necessarily true.

[BurnTheOliveTree]

Racists are so much the minority, even now, that they could never seriously threaten a revolution. What about exile? Re-education? (That sounds Nazi...)


There are other alternatives and options, surely? Personally I don&#39;t even think they are reactionaries, I think racism is just born from ignorance, or perhaps peer pressure and things.



Besides, reactionaries are still human beings. Obviously we have to give them freedom of speech, otherwise they will be able to moan about freedom of speech, and thus generate sympathy for them. The best route is just to let them get on with it, and keep up a steady flow of counter-argument. That way, there are no confusing factors, it is our argument versus their argument, and no prizes for who wins that one.

I don&#39;t see how class has anything to do with racism.

-Alex

[BurnTheOliveTree]

Just thought of a new idea for racists - Temporary imprisonment until the revolution is over, and the situation is stable.

-Alex

[Mujer Libre]

EusibioScrib ad FoB hit on an important point- a lasting revolution can&#39;t happen unless people&#39;s ideas, and way of looking at the world has changed a LOT. You just can&#39;t be racist and be a communist&#33;

I also agree with Haraldur. The kind of racists who&#39;re going to indoctrinate their children are the kind of people who&#39;d take up arms against the revolution. No big loss there.

About whether racism is slowly disappearing; society is definitely less racist now than in the past, but I think we shouldn&#39;t be complacent about it (not that I&#39;m suggesting anyone is...) because there are people out there trying to incite a resurgence of racist feeling. Look at what happened in Cronulla... I know in Australia there&#39;s a lot of latent racism, as well as the institutional kind- and those types of racism are even harder to combat.