Anarchist And Socialist Women

[Free Floating Radical]

Socialist and Anarchist Women

It occurred to me that of all of the intellectual endeavors undertaken by Humankind, the Leftist, particularly the Socialist and Anarchist, movements can boast the largest representation of female geniuses.

It would seem as though Socialism and Anarchism provide unique outlet for particularly feminine genius.

The outstanding women figures in Leftist movements that come most immediately to mind are:

Lucy Parsons

Louise Michel

Emma Goldman

Helen Keller

Marie Louise Berneri

Voltairine DeCleyre

Elizabeth Gurley Flynn

Dora Marsden

Federica Montseny

Margaret Sanger

Rosa Luxembourg

Elizabeth Jane Cochran (aka Nellie Bly)

Rose Pesotta

Angela Davis

I am hard-pressed to think of any other intellectual-activist field so graced.

Doreen Ellen Bell-Dotan, Tzfat, Israel

[FinnMacCool]

Emma Goldman is my favorite anarchist thinker. As I write this now, a copy of Anarchism and othe Essays by Emma Goldman, is sitting next to me.

[Angry Young Man]

Was Mary Woolstonecraft in any way left-leaning? Or Mary Shelley?

[Free Floating Radical]

There is some information about the Godwin-Shelly family on this site:

http://home-1.worldonline.nl/~hamberg/

[Postteen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 10:06 PM
Emma Goldman is my favorite anarchist thinker. As I write this now, a copy of Anarchism and othe Essays by Emma Goldman, is sitting next to me.
I second that!You can read some of her works in 'her' website EMMA GOLDMAN'S COLLECTED WORKS (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/goldman/GoldmanCW.html)

[bcbm]

Originally posted by lovechild of Kahlo and [email protected] 27 2006, 02:19 PM
Or Mary Shelley?
If I'm thinking of the right one, her father was William Godwin, a proto-anarchist, and she eloped with Percy Bysshe Shelley, an anarchist, so... I'd say so. ;)

[TC]

Does this thread really have anything to do with discrimination or has the discrimination forum just become the place where people put any topic about women?


Free Floating Radical writes

It occurred to me that of all of the intellectual endeavors undertaken by Humankind, the Leftist, particularly the Socialist and Anarchist, movements can boast the largest representation of female geniuses.

It would seem as though Socialism and Anarchism provide unique outlet for particularly feminine genius.


What are probably the two most prominant rightist political philosophys though, Objectivism and Neo-Conservatism, were both developed primarily by female political scientists though, Ayn Rand and Jeane Kirkpatrick respectively. Margret Thatcher is, along with Ronald Reagan, surely the most iconic rightist political leader of the second half of the 20th century.


The outstanding women figures in Leftist movements that come most immediately to mind are:

I must say that your list is increadibly disappointing since the people you mentioned are at best minor activists elevated to strangely iconic stature, most are simply minor activists, and some are celebrities for non-political reasons who simply happened to also be communists.


Lucy Parsons
-Really a relatively minor activist of very little importance. Of course i'm sure she was an excellent person (what with denouncing Anarchism and switching to Marxism-Leninism, specifically the pro-Stalin faction), so i'm not meaning to insult her, but seriously, no one would have ever heard about her if she was part of a more important, effective movement in a country other than the United States, since she only ever really led rallys.


Louise Michel
Random communard activist...i'm not sure what you think makes her so important.


Emma Goldman

Complete asshole, lots of anarchists worship her in a personality-cult type way for some weird reason, but still, she was only engaged in minor activism, no real prominance, and she didn't write actual political theory or lead a political movement or anything of that sort, she just wrote political commentary like a ton of other people.

Although she's probably the fourth most famous anarchist after Proudhon, Bakunin, and Kropotkin, her contribution was surely much much more minor compared to the three others.


Helen Keller

I have no idea why you included her on the list other than the fact that she was a woman and a Communist...most of her public activities were non-political, including most of her activism and what she was more famous for...theres no way she was an "outstanding figure of the left"


Marie-Louise Berneri

I didn't even know who this was until i looked it up, but a really obscure activist who i doubt anyone would have heard of if she didn't have a significantly more famous father. I guess you could include Eleanor Marx on the same basis but i'm not sure what that would show.


Voltairine DeCleyre

She was an anti-state liberal, a rightwing anarchist, not a leftist.


Elizabeth Gurley Flynn

Also a pretty minor communist activist, she is probably only remembered given the McCarthy trials...so i'm not sure why you'd count her so highly.


Dora Marsden

Dora Marsden wasn't an anarchist or a socialist, she was like a libertarian feminist.


Federica Montseny

lol still a big stretch imo, but at least she was an actual politician of at least national prominance (in spain).


Margaret Sanger

She was quite an important activist for sure, but for birth control not for socialism or anarchism...i didn't even realize she was a socialist to be honest until i looked it up. Its definately not what she's known for.


Rosa Luxembourg

She's probably the only person on your list who i think could be seriously described as a major figure in the leftist movement. ;)


Nellie Bly

She was pretty cool but don't really see why you're counting her as an anarchist or socialist let alone an outstanding leftist figure or a 'female genius'...she was a celebrity journalist who i don't think anyone associates with the socialist or anarchist movement.


Rose Pesotta

I didn't know who this was so i looked it up, but again seems like a very obscure, minor activist.


Angela Davis

Very very cool. In fact, i generally think Angela Davis was and is awsome...and she used to have a really cool iconic look with her hair and all.

But, honestly, she was basically a famous because of one-news-story (apparently helping Black Panthers get out of jail) type...of course the fact that she came off as being very very cool helped extend her 15 minutes of fame far further than it normally would have gone, but i think it would be an exaggeration to suggest that she was a major leftist figure or a genius or something.


I am hard-pressed to think of any other intellectual-activist field so graced.

Lol, well, you clearly came up with some very obscure names and listed some very minor figures, not to mention included a bunch that were either not leftists or not known for their leftist political theory or activism at all..

I'm sure if you're going to set the bar that low you could find plenty of female activists/intellectuals in every ideological/political field.

lovechild of Kahlo and Trotsky writes
Was Mary Woolstonecraft in any way left-leaning?

Yes of course...given her historical context anyways...but not a socialist or an anarchist...i mean it would even be a huge stretch to call William Godwin an anarchist as he predated the anarchist movement, and the modern term anarchism, considerably.


Or Mary Shelley?

She was a novelist not an activist or a political scientist...i mean your namesake Frida Kahlo, obviously was a Communist, but she wasn't notable as a Communist she was notable as an artist.

black banner black gun writes

If I'm thinking of the right one, her father was William Godwin, a proto-anarchist, and she eloped with Percy Bysshe Shelley, an anarchist, so... I'd say so.
<_< because women automatically accept the politics of their father and husband?

I don&#39;t even think Percy Shelley was an anarchist, or even "proto-anarchist", and besides unlike William Godwin he was a public figure as a poet not a political theorist and Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley didn&#39;t even get along well with Godwin.

[RedAnarchist]

What about Dolores Ibarruri?

[Entrails Konfetti]

Clara Zetkin, Alexandria Kollantai, Vera Zasulich

[Amusing Scrotum]

What does this have to do with social discrimination? :blink:

Anyway, I&#39;ve only heard of Goldman, Kollontai, Luxemburg and Zetkin, and I&#39;ve only read Kollontai and Luxemburg, but, certainly, they could be considered important communist theoreticians. Though, to be honest, I don&#39;t think having your writing put up on MIA makes someone a "genius". Indeed, in my opinion, there are probably only a few known lefties who I&#39;d say could be classified as "geniuses"....Marx, Einstein, a British Marxist-Leninist Darwinist who I quoted once in a piece of coursework but now I can&#39;t remember his name, Stephen Jay Gould and so on. And, yet, it&#39;s only Marx who could be called a "genius" from the perspective of his relevance to the communist and anarchist movement....the other folks are "geniuses" for other reasons.

Personally, though, if I had to choose one prominent female communist who I thought was incredibly clever and relevant, I&#39;d choose Sylvia Pankhurst. I&#39;ve not a lot of her work, and her later politics go off on a slight tangent, but, all in all, she came to conclusions that her male counterparts took decades to come to. For instance, Amadeo Bordiga who is often touted as one of the key founders of the left-communist paradigm, as far as I know, developed certain trains of thought years after Pankhurst had first penned them. And that, in my opinion, indicates that she was a very perceptive individual....though, as I said, I&#39;ve not read a whole lot of her work so I just know a bit about her general political positions.


Originally posted by TragicClown+--> (TragicClown)What are probably the two most prominant rightist political philosophys though, Objectivism and Neo-Conservatism, were both developed primarily by female political scientists though, Ayn Rand and Jeane Kirkpatrick respectively.[/b]

Ayn Rand, yeah, but Jeane Kirkpatrick? Surely Neo-Conservatism is more of a broad ideological paradigm that finds its foundations in a variety of different sources? Including, of course, American anti-communist "Socialism" of which Kirkpatrick was an adherent.

If anything, I&#39;d say Leo Strauss was the "primary" intellectual of Neo-Conservatism....but quite a few folks disagree with that. But that&#39;s really besides the point.


TragicClown
Margret Thatcher is, along with Ronald Reagan, surely the most iconic rightist political leader of the second half of the 20th century.

Are either of those two more "iconic" than Jack Kennedy? Because, surely, he&#39;s the most "adored" post-War "rightist political leader". Unless you wouldn&#39;t place him in the "rightist" camp? Which, admittedly, would be strange in my opinion.

[VermontLeft]

It occurred to me that of all of the intellectual endeavors undertaken by Humankind, the Leftist, particularly the Socialist and Anarchist, movements can boast the largest representation of female geniuses.


thats a pretty tenuous claim to say the least.

its kinda like the whole bullshit environmentalist claim that women are "naturally green" cause we have some "connection" to the "mother goddess"... <_<

in my opinoin though, any attempt to link a gender with a political persuasion is bad politics and really bad science.

sure, i can buy that more disenfranchised groups like women and minorities tend to drift more towards emancipatory movements then people who are bennefitted by the system.

thats why, statistically, women tend to be to the left of men and why ann coulter famously quipped that "if women didnt vote, the republicans would always win".

but that doesnt mean that women are "naturally" leftist or that the leftist field is "more female" than any other. especialyl cause the reality is that patriarchy tends to spread into leftism just as much as anything else and, overwhelmingly, most leftist political leaders have been men.

thats of course because post political leaders period have been men.

and so trying to make some sort of link between being a woman and being a leftist strikes me as trying to co-opt gender to serve a political purpose. it actually does a disservice to feminism cause it avalanches the real issues with idealism.

leftism makes sense for women. the current society oppresses us and a revolution would end that. but leftism also makes sense for every other worker cause theyre being oppressed too.

and rmember, maggie thatcher was a woman and she was as far away from a leftist as you can get.

"goddess" theories are bullshit&#33;

[TC]

Lol i loved VermontLeft&#39;s post.

Anyways i think, in general, discussion about individuals and their individual characteristics is pretty irrelevant, and it falls into the trap of being obsessed with the apperance of things like equality rather then the material reality of it, and frankly, i think the liberals already have that covered.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, cause i thought the origional list was just so disapointing and seemed kindof historically unaware, and there are a lot of more significant female communist leaders outside of the west...who for some reason haven&#39;t generated the same amount of interest among western leftists as Goldman and Luxemburg, i&#39;ll add to it :-p:


Soong Ching-ling:

3rd President/Chairwoman of the People&#39;s Republic of China, the first Vice-President/Chair of the People&#39;s Republic of China. She became prominant when caused a split in the Kuomintang during the Chinese Civil War in order to side with the Communist Party, leading the Revolutionary Committee of the Kuomintang against the mainline Kuomintang; after the Communists came to power she became the Chinese Vice-Chair.

Jiang Qing:

Leader of the Radical faction of the Chinese Communist Party, headed the opposition to Liu Shaoqi and Deng Xiaoping and the reformists, forcing them out of power during the Cultural Revolution...she was arguably the most effectively powerful Chinese Communist politician during most of the 70s until a reaction against the radicals and Jiang in particular restored Deng Xiaoping and the reformists to power.

Kim Jong Suk:

Korean Communist WWII general...weirdly worshiped by some western leftists like Emma Goldman except by different people...but at least she a significant political figure.

Maryam Rajavi:

Leader of the Marxist Iranian People&#39;s Mujahideen army and president of the Iranian National Council of Resistance, easily the most important anti-Clerical Iranian leader.

Bernadine Dohrn:

Personally, i think she&#39;s by far the coolest American communist although not as important as the other people mentioned, but important by 1st world commie standards...she was a prominant New Left political writer and student leader, the defacto leader of the SDS and Weather Underground so she took a leading role in both the political and military effort to open a front in the United States to support the Vietnamese communist war effort against american occupation. Plus, bombed dozens of american government and military targets and got away with it.

Leila Khaled:

Famous marxist-leninist palestinian guerrilla leader and politican, somewhat like an arab Che in that she had a sort of pop-icon status in the left...most famous for hijacking planes to facilitate prisoner exchanges to free PLFP fighters...one of the people who (unintentionally, obviously) instigated the Black September conflict. Probably the most famous arab communist.

Milka Planinc:

Croatian/Yugoslav Communist leader, former Prime Minister of socialist Yugoslavia and head of the Croatian communist party. She played a major role in surpressing the fascist/nationalist imperialist-backed "Croatian Spring" counter-revolutionary movement and preserving the international union of Yugoslavia.

Mirjana Marković:

Leader of the Yugoslav Left party, the largest Yugoslavian Communist party, resisting both Serbian and other Yugoslavian nationalisms and attempting to restore socialism to Yugoslavia...currently avoiding an EU warrent in Russia.

[Free Floating Radical]

Your name is well-chosen, TragicClown.

Your abysmal ignorance coupled with your brawling arrogance (the two usually accompany one another) truly make for slapstick comedy.

But you&#39;re in luck, sweety.

I&#39;m here to give these lists a leg up - until I get banned for speaking too much truth, that is.

;)

[Conghaileach]

A few from Ireland that jumped from the top of my head - Nora Connolly O&#39;Brien, Bernadette Devlin-McAliskey, Miriam Daly, Mairead Farrell.

All were more activists than theoreticians, with the exception of Daly who was a University lecturer as well as being head of the IRSP (and apparently the INLA as well).

[Conghaileach]

What about people like Elaine Brown of the Black Panthers, and Leila Khaled?

[Free Floating Radical]

Hi, Conghaileach:

Keep the names coming&#33; I had no intention of providing an exhaustive list. It was meant just for starters.

Originally I put this thread up on the Discrimination forum because I was taking into account that there are great female Leftists alive today. I think that women have made a singular contribution to Leftist thought because it provides them with the outlet that society-at-large, which discriminates against us in so very many ways, does not. This is not a matter of history. It is an ongoing process. Thus, the Discrimination thread seemed the most appropriate of all the options this forum allows.

Unfortunately, TragicClown has proven herself not to be one of the sharpest tacks in the box and the significance of this thread, as well as the accomplishments of most of the women I listed, are almost completely lost on her.

She thinks, for example, that Louise Michel was some minor player in the Paris Commune <spluttering with laughter>. Good work, Clowney, show everyone what an ignoramus you are.

Having more power than intelligence and insight she moved the thread over here.

I would hold up a few of the moderators I&#39;ve seen on these boards as perfect examples of what happens when people have power that exceeds their wisdom.

There&#39;s a lot to learn about how important Socialism and Syndicalism are from these boards - by watching how it&#39;s not done and realizing how necessary it is.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 04:45 PM
<_< because women automatically accept the politics of their father and husband?
No, I meant that people with the same interests and ideas generally associate with each other. I certainly wouldn&#39;t marry someone who had no political ideas similar to my own, let alone elope with them. You are the company you keep... Percy&#39;s words about her certainly seem to confirm that she agreed with him in many areas, as does this joint advocacy of some issues.


I don&#39;t even think Percy Shelley was an anarchist, or even "proto-anarchist", and besides unlike William Godwin he was a public figure as a poet not a political theorist

I&#39;m not discussing his public life or why he was famous, I&#39;m discussing his political ideas, which were certainly radical leftist, if not "proto-anarchist" (or anarchist outright). He was heavily influenced by Godwin (enough to put the "free love" idea into pratice with his daughter&#33;), and some of his poems do have a leftist bent, "The Masque of Anarchy" to be a bit obvious. He was very much appreciated by the early labor and socialist movements because of his work.


Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley didn&#39;t even get along well with Godwin.

Due in large part to the business about eloping, as I understand it.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 11:45 PM

Emma Goldman

Complete asshole
An asshole?...


Although she&#39;s probably the fourth most famous anarchist after Proudhon, Bakunin, and Kropotkin, her contribution was surely much much more minor compared to the three others.

Errico Malatesta is much more significant than Emma Goldman

[Free Floating Radical]

Originally posted by The Anarchist Tension+Jun 28 2006, 04:21 PM--> (The Anarchist Tension @ Jun 28 2006, 04:21 PM)
[email protected] 27 2006, 11:45 PM

Emma Goldman

Complete asshole
An asshole?...

[/b]
Yeah, I was way taken aback by this evaluation of Emma Goldman too.

In fact, it was then that my opinion about Clowney jelled.

As the old saying goes: "You never get a second chance to make a first impression."

TragicClown&#39;s first impression on me was, well, um, I don&#39;t like to resort to the use of expletives like the one she used to describe Red Emma.

But as the old saying goes: "They are as they speak."

[Body Count]

Wasn&#39;t Margaret Sanger a eugenic supporter whose beliefs helped form some of the policies in Nazi Germany?

[FinnMacCool]

Complete Asshole
Um. . .mind explaining why?

lots of anarchists worship her in a personality-cult type way for some weird reason, but still, she was only engaged in minor activism, no real prominance,
Anarchism doesn&#39;t have personality cults. There are admirers of her, yes, but you do not see people running around saying that
"Emma Goldman is always right&#33;"

You consider fighting in the Spanish Civil War on behalf of the anarchists, minor activism?

Her claim to fame is her speeches. She made brilliant speeches, comparable to that of John Most.

and she didn&#39;t write actual political theory or lead a political movement or anything of that sort, she just wrote political commentary like a ton of other people.
Her political theoryies were nothing new but the way she wrote it, and the style that she used, surpasses Proudhon, Kropotkin, and Bakunin.


Although she&#39;s probably the fourth most famous anarchist after Proudhon, Bakunin, and Kropotkin, her contribution was surely much much more minor compared to the three others.
Agreed.

[FinnMacCool]

Oh yeah and Free Floating Radical, we will never see Tragic Clown again on this thread. After people respond to her ludicrous arguments, she runs away never to be seen again. She does a hit and run insult. She comments as though she never plans on actually debating anyone--only criticizing them in an arrogant and fucked up way.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 03:06 PM

You consider fighting in the Spanish Civil War on behalf of the anarchists, minor activism?
She didn&#39;t fight...

[Lamanov]

Originally posted by TragicClown+--> (TragicClown)Mirjana Marković:

Leader of the Yugoslav Left party, the largest Yugoslavian Communist party, resisting both Serbian and other Yugoslavian nationalisms and attempting to restore socialism to Yugoslavia...currently avoiding an EU warrent in Russia.[/b]

She was a "first lady" in a proto-faschist / gangster capitalist government in 1987-2000 Serbia. Her husband was Slobodan Milošević, Serbian/Yugoslav president, one of the people responsible for primitivist nationalist war in former Yugoslavia.

Yugoslav Left (Jugoslovenska levica) is by no means a "communist" party in any way. It was an elitist organization which helped rich and infuential people to get into government and parliament, as a coalition partner of her husband&#39;s Socialist Party of Serbia (Socijalistička partija Srbije, a "socialist" rhetoric and nationalist political party which, in the years of Western pressure on Serbia, held a coalition government with far-right Serbian Radical Party, Srpska radikalna stranka).

Did we make this clear?

Take her off that list for the sake of Kollontai, Goldman and others above. ;)


black banner black gun
She didn&#39;t fight...

Yeah, well, she was 67. :blush:

You won&#39;t see RedStar2000 holding a motar and screaming "No pasaran&#33;" either. ;) :lol:

[FinnMacCool]

Originally posted by black banner black [email protected] 29 2006, 04:11 PM

She didn&#39;t fight...
In the wikipedia entrance, she said she was there in support. What was she doing there then?

Oh she was the head of the propaganda effort over there.

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Goldman/Exhibi...shcivilwar.html (http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Goldman/Exhibition/spanishcivilwar.html)

[bcbm]

Originally posted by FinnMacCool+Jun 29 2006, 03:33 PM--> (FinnMacCool @ Jun 29 2006, 03:33 PM)
black banner black [email protected] 29 2006, 04:11 PM

She didn&#39;t fight...
In the wikipedia entrance, she said she was there in support. What was she doing there then?

Oh she was the head of the propaganda effort over there.

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Goldman/Exhibi...shcivilwar.html (http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Goldman/Exhibition/spanishcivilwar.html) [/b]
Yeah, she was 67, after all. A bit old to be in the trenches. ;)

[FinnMacCool]

Originally posted by black banner black gun+Jun 29 2006, 05:38 PM--> (black banner black gun @ Jun 29 2006, 05:38 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 03:33 PM

black banner black [email protected] 29 2006, 04:11 PM

She didn&#39;t fight...
In the wikipedia entrance, she said she was there in support. What was she doing there then?

Oh she was the head of the propaganda effort over there.

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Goldman/Exhibi...shcivilwar.html (http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Goldman/Exhibition/spanishcivilwar.html)
Yeah, she was 67, after all. A bit old to be in the trenches. ;) [/b]
How did that not occur to me.

[Free Floating Radical]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 12:10 AM
Oh yeah and Free Floating Radical, we will never see Tragic Clown again on this thread. After people respond to her ludicrous arguments, she runs away never to be seen again. She does a hit and run insult. She comments as though she never plans on actually debating anyone--only criticizing them in an arrogant and fucked up way.
Hey, Finn, then how is it that she is a moderator???

If she has a record of responding in a non sequitur manner and acting arbitrarily then she shouldn&#39;t be a moderator.

If I had my druthers this board would run democratically without mods, but that is an aside.

Are you from ROI?

My Dad is from Co. Sligo, so my children and I are Irish citizens.

I have an Irish passport in force and have wanted to go, but something always seems to get in the way...

[YSR]

I agree with VermontLeft&#39;s post about the bizzare connection between gender and politics. It does a disservice to all of us. (Not that the poster intended to do this or indeed did so, but VL brought up an interesting side point.)

And the image of Redstar2000 acting as described had me laughing.

[FinnMacCool]

Hey, Finn, then how is it that she is a moderator???

If she has a record of responding in a non sequitur manner and acting arbitrarily then she shouldn&#39;t be a moderator.
Well she was voted by the commie club. Really have no idea why shes a mod.



If I had my druthers this board would run democratically without mods, but that is an aside.
I&#39;ve suggested something along that line but its always been rejeceted. . .ah well.


Are you from ROI?

My Dad is from Co. Sligo, so my children and I are Irish citizens.

I have an Irish passport in force and have wanted to go, but something always seems to get in the way...
Nah. I&#39;m just an american narrowback with a love affair of Irish culture and history. I&#39;m going there on July 6 to visit family. First time out of the country for me.

[rebelworker]

First I wanted to Say that Tragic Clows post made me sick. Denouncing working class militants who were aprt of Americas most racdical period as "not having done anything important" then holding up a spoiled brat like Dorn as an example of a "real communist". All the WUO ever did was turn people off off revolution, they were a joke, a legend in thier own minds only, unfortunately history is written by intellectuals and not working class militants so the get alot of hype, but they helped to destroy SDS and were criticised by Fred Hampton, a real revolutionary, of being a bunch of adventurist pricks.

And for the record LUCY PARSONS NEVER BECAME A STALINIST. She worked in a communist Party dominated labour defense campaign because she was pretty non sectarian and wanted to protect working class militants from the state, but she never joined the party and defended her anarchist politics publicly untill very late in her life.

Another good example of Communist Party hacks re wirting history to suit their needs&#33;

[Marion]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 05:56 PM
All the WUO ever did was turn people off off revolution, they were a joke, a legend in thier own minds only, unfortunately history is written by intellectuals and not working class militants so the get alot of hype, but they helped to destroy SDS and were criticised by Fred Hampton, a real revolutionary, of being a bunch of adventurist pricks.

By no means whatsoever are the WUO my idea of the type of organisation I&#39;d want anything to do with.

However, I think your comment is a touch unfair on them. Yeah, they were criticised by Hampton for being "adventurist pricks" (his exact quote, in relation to the Days of Rage, was that they were "anarchistic, opportunistic, individualistic, chauvinistic and Custeristic") but the Black Panther Party were generally on pretty good terms with WUO as they were about the only predominantly white group that were willing to try and actually take action to remove the pressure on the Panthers. They really took their anti-racism incredibly seriously. If you think the Panthers were serious revolutionaries and had the right approach you should consider why they were generally close to the WUO.

The WUO underwent a number of significant changes and are worth reading about in detail, particularly in terms of the dangers of attempting to be uber-militant and not being open to other groups and the overground, and how they developed and learned from some of their mistakes. The recent book by Dan Berger (Outlaws of America, published by AK Press) is very good - its rightly critical but helps explain where their theory came from and their flaws.

Yeah, think you&#39;re right that they get more hype than they deserve though...