Do you think kurdish people will have their own nation? - Ho

[Luna]

What do you think the Kurds should do to get Kurdistan to become an official nation? I believe that Kurdistan belongs to kurdish people and that it always did. Their land is quite rich but they are poor because their resources are being stolen from them. They are not free on their own land. I'm sorry when I hear Kurds say that Kurdistan will never exist because their fate is not in their hands. But I can understand. What will they need to do?

[hawarameen]

hello luna, welcome to che lives.

i agree with you but unfortunately the kurds have been kicked in the teeth so many times it is hard to believe that something good will happen.
the kurds have for the most part given up on optimism and taken to realism instead.

if kurdistan was ever to be a nation it sould have happened when iraq was formed, now unfortunately there is all this talk of terretorial integrity and i think it will take some monumental change/crisis in the area for the borders to be re-drawn. and i think it may not be worth establishing kurdistan at the expense of complete and utter turmoil in the area, however deserving the kurds may be.

its really nice to hear from you,
take care S.

[Kapitan Andrey]

No! Kurds will suffer!

tUrks will krush you if they want to...it's bad? but it is reality! They don't need independent Kurdistan!!!

[Beccie]

Good to see that you are full of optimism, Kapitan Andrey!

[MiNdGaMe]

If Kurdistan was granted independence it would be land-locked and surrounded by enemies, Iran, Turkey etc...

[hawarameen]

Quote: from Kapitan Andrey on 1:56 am on May 12, 2003

No! Kurds will suffer!

tUrks will krush you if they want to...it's bad? but it is reality! They don't need independent Kurdistan!!!


please elaborate on this bizarre and insane post

[Luna]

Thanks for your reply Hawarameen. I understand what you mean. Arabs say that from now on, usa will be a power in middle east as long as there will be oil there.
They will make sure that nobody makes trouble in that area because they want the world to think that there's no bad consequences from irak war. Arabs also say that if Kurdish people get their nation, it will be the start for all the other ethnic groups to ask for nations as well.
I think it doesn't make sense because Kurdish people are not just an ethnic group, they are the largest people on earth who don't have a nation.
I know that usa never did anything to help the Kurds but if there would be democraty in Kurdistan so that kurdish people could put their own leaders to power, and then after those leaders could unified and ask the people in a poll if they want Kurdistan to be independant, the other countries (turkey, irak, iran and syria) would be against peace and democraty if they would try to do something. That's why I think that more kurdish people will have supporters all around the world, better it is.
Don't forget that usa didn't win the peace, they won the war. And now they don't know how they could stay in Irak but they don't eighter know how they could leave so...
I don't know what role they will play but it will be for their own interest.
I just hope that circumstances will help kurdish people to find a way to get their freedom back.

[Republican Guard]

Fuck nationalism.

It blows my mind how people are talking about creating new independent states on a board like this.

I suggest that we also create a country-state for left-handed albino lesbian midget ninja eskimos. They've been oppressed for far too long. Creating a piece of land with imaginary lines drawn around it will surely help alleviate their suffering.

Tell me, would you rather have kurds be a major political player in the future of Iraq, with a voice equal to its proportion of the population, or would you prefer to have your own little piece of land?

Just as the plight of the arabs is not primarily due to America or Israel but to the greed of a few dishonorable arabs, Kurds have no finger to point at anyone for where they are todya, for better or worse.

Kurds have killed more Kurds than Saddam can ever be credited to.

s.

[hawarameen]

you keep refering to how kurds have killed more kurds than saddam and you refuse to back it up.

the iraqi people need freedom, the kurds in turkey need freedom, the kurds in syria and iran need freedom.
if each individual country does the decent thing and treats its people with dignity then it does not matter what land you live on or what its called.
i only say that the best and most likely way that these people can get any sort of freedom is by having self rule. as long as they are a minority they will have no freedom like many other minorities around the world.

why do palestinians demand a nation? i am sure that you and many people here support a palestinian state. is this not the same nationalism? as long as israel treats the palestinians with dignity there is no need for a palestinian state!
BUT i dont think it will happen unless palestinians get there little piece of land as you say. it is not nationalism to want people to be free from oppresion, paletinians need freedom as much as the kurds and i believe in both cases that it will only be achieved with independance. if there is another way then great, if the kurds in iraq get SOME freedom then great. but there are kurds in turkey who suffer just as much. i do not think a distinction should be made between palestinian, kurd america etc.. they all need freedom in certain ways.

i would rather kurds be treated with dignity whatever form that may come in.

ssooo we have no-one else to blame but ourselves for being gassed, tortured, and being 'dissapeared'? is this what you are saying?

[MarxIsGod]

Freeing the Kurds in Turkey and Iraq and then giving them their own country is a temporary and "easy way out" solution to a somewhat complicated problem. What we need to do is to try and make the world more tolerant of individual ethnic groups, such as the Kurds and (as was the case several years ago) ethnic Albanians. Giving them a country simply isolates them and does not change people's opinions on them. What we (international community and the U.N. if it ever regains what little authority it had prior to Operation: Iraqi Freedom) need to do is say to Turkey and other countries who exercise prejudice against the Kurds is that they are an ethnic group who has lived their for a long time and that their prejudice and misstreatment of them will not be tolerated as we move into a future in which we strive to be open-minded and understanding of all people regardless of ethnicity, race, creed, religion, ancestry, etc. Though this may sound overly optimistic at the present, the only way in which Communism will work is if a Communist government is open to all people who wish to live in a truly free country. This is also similar to the founding of Israel which was partially because governments were openly practicing unchecked, unopposed anti-semitism. For example, the Dreyfus affair in France and the Holocaust in Nazi Germany. With the latter, although several nations fought against the Nazis, their cause was not to save the Jews and other minorities suffering at the hands of the Nazis, it was to prevent Europe from being overrun by Fascist dictators and to save their own countries and interests. The crisis with the Kurds (that has a nice ring to it) is a problem we need to solve, but the solution must be thought out and be able to work in the short-term and the long-term.

[Umoja]

I agree largely with the sentiment here. Creating a Kurdish homeland does seem rather silly. Africans have had and still have this problem in their post colonial world, but instead of splitting off and forming racially based states like Utu-Land and San Place, they realize they have to work within the borders of what they already have.

[Subcomandante Marcos]

What would have happened if all the South American colonies had said the same thing back on the 1800's ?? there would be no Chile, Argentina, Peru, Bolivia, Colombia, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc.. This is the same nationalism that moves as all, although I consider my self a citizen of the world there needs to be bonderies where we acan all develop.

What if you lived in your neighboors house and think that as long as he treats you good than it it okay that you live in his backyard. Then why do we need our own bedroom, our own house, our own city, we need a place to call our own.

We all suffer this way, everyone seems to need independence, although most of them really need it there are some that dont.

I am convinced that the Chilean Governemnt needs to create a Mpauche State on the southern part of Chile, just as convinced that the Kurds need their own country. They have been exploited far too long and it needs to stop now, creating a kurdish state is the right thing to do, the emancipation of kurds on Iran, Irak and Turkey is something that can be done, but the U$ doesnt want to do it since it doesnt have the support of his allied Turkey and hence it would complicate their relationship and of course they dont want to loose that chunk of land up north.

[hawarameen]

i will support anything that helps the oppressed peoples of this godforsaken planet. there are people like the kurds all over the planet and their human rights are being violated everyday.
i think that asking turkey to be more tolerant to the kurds is like asking saddam to be nice, it is in turkeys nature to oppress its minorities.

i cant however see how creating a kurdish homeland would be silly though, thinking it will be un/necessary or that it wont solve the problem is one think but i dont think you could call it 'silly'.

[Kapitan Andrey]

hawarameen...are you angry!? I can say it again:

YOU WILL SUFFER!!! :biggrin:

[Luna]

Kapitan Andrey, would you please explain why you say that Kurds will suffer? I think that those mother fuckers Turks are afraid of Kurdish Pride...are you one of them?

[Republican Guard]

Quote: from Luna on 11:50 pm on May 12, 2003
I think that those mother fuckers Turks are afraid of Kurdish Pride...are you one of them?

A mature, unbiased, level-headed post if I've ever read one.

Sorry, but I refuse to believe that "Turks are Evil and Kurds are Good", or "Americans are Evil" inherently because of the way a small portion of people acted in a certain way.

s.

s.

[hawarameen]

Kapitan Andrea,

no not angry i just want you to explain yourself thats all.
can you do that? are you capable?

the turkish GOVERNMENT is evil do you try to deny that too, what is it with you? do you support all oppresors or is it anyone who oppresses kurds?

and as for mature unbiased i didnt see you commending Kapitan Andrea for his mature post, well then again i would not expect you to, the abuse was directed to ALL KURDS in general.

[FcKaraKIZIL]

Quote: from Luna on 4:50 am on May 13, 2003
mother fuckers Turks

fascism of kurds is the same with the fascism of turks...
instead of that sentence could you prefer to say "biji bratiya gelan" ??? (longlive the solidarity of publics).. the enemy of the kurds is not turks... the enemy of the turks and kurds is fucking capitalism... the fate of the turks and kurds and the same... freedom is came with destroying capitalism... please, know your enemy !

[IPkurd]

I would like to say that republican guard was to my best of knowledge ived in mosul a kurdish city which saddam arabilised (put iraqis in) so he had a good life thanks to saddam so his opinion is worthless and he is a disgrace to arabs. and i think that a kurdistan does have access to the sea so its not land locked as for the NME's well you win some you lose some. If there is to e a kurdistan there needs to be a war between iraq,syia iran tukey s that the borders are redrawn to avoid any further conflict or something like that. Welcome luna i am also kurdish

[Luna]

Kurdistan belongs to Kurds ! Kurdish people is being oppressed and have no freedom. They are poor people on a rich land because they are being stolen by Turkey, Irak, Iran and Syria. They must fight to keep their culture and language alive on their own land.

FckaraKIZIL, I think that the ones using capitalism as a reason to oppressed and kill people should be considered as ennemies.

IPKurd, I'm please to meet you. I have to tell you I'm not Kurd. I have a great respect for Kurdish Pride and I wish there was a way for Kurdish people to take the leads of their destiny in a near future.

[Republican Guard]

Quote: from IPkurd on 8:45 pm on May 13, 2003
I would like to say that republican guard was to my best of knowledge ived in mosul a kurdish city which saddam arabilised (put iraqis in) so he had a good life thanks to saddam so his opinion is worthless and he is a disgrace to arabs. and i think that a kurdistan does have access to the sea so its not land locked as for the NME's well you win some you lose some. If there is to e a kurdistan there needs to be a war between iraq,syia iran tukey s that the borders are redrawn to avoid any further conflict or something like that. Welcome luna i am also kurdish


I would like to say that IPKurd is - to the best of my knowledge - an evil Nazi clone, the product of an illicit goat wedding and was rasied by wolves in the Arctic.

You know nothing about anything, and even less about me. First of all you sorry, sorry excuse for a decent human being, I am not even Arab. And were I, something tells me that they wouldn't consider me disgrace; far from it.

Finally, I'm glad that you think my opinion is worthless. So worthless, in fact, that you feel compelled to angrily answer each one of my posts with so much enthusiasm?

I have quite a few good kurdish friends, and I'm pretty sure that the ones like you are not even the bottom of the barrel when it comes to helping the kurdish people. You're in another barrel underneath that one, in which a hole has been cut. Think about that for a second, Sherlock.

I should take being "worthless and a disgrace" as a great compliment actually, coming from you.

Cheers!

:)

s.

[IPkurd]

You didn't even say were werent made rich because of saddam, and you said you were an arab so tht was a lie as well. And you are in no positon to tell me what kind of kurd i am you saddam looker like reject you have no brain at all
you asy i dont help kurds are you mad, kurds in london use to fund the PKK for about 15 years before they stopped operations you **** you dont no me at all and i no you i mean your the one that said every thing about mosul and stuf.
iam a evil nazi yeah coming from you thats a good thing right

[Republican Guard]

I'll say it again:

Cheers!

:)

[Alaniara]

Independent Kurdistan?
not realistically.

Uncle Sam's Kurdisrael?
possibly.

Wanting an "independent Kurdistan" at the moment would be like wanting an Arabia in a rainforest. It is an oxymoron. What most people need to understand is the fact that no country *ahem -USA- ahem* is waiting out there to give the Kurds a home of their own just out of pure kindness and sympathy.

If those superpowers ever touch that region these days, it's because they think it's time for a new Israel.

It's Kurdisrael they want.

And let's think the other way. Put the superpowers aside for a while. Who's left in the region?

Turkey? Boy, watch for a full set of embargoes of all sorts, and I am being optimistic here.

Arabs? Naaah.

The Turkic republics up there near the Caucasus? Yeah, who do you think they would support?

So we're all set. Let's see what we've got. An "independent" Kurdistan would mean a Kurdistan without the neighbors, and without the imperial monsters.

And who's left now to support the independent Kurdistan? The Kurds? Well, I would like to see what they could do alone.

On the other hand, however, we have the option of a Kurdisrael. A variation of Kurdistan that the super-uncles are offering you. Many Kurdish leftists were dying for this for decades, right? For a Kurdisrael? Uhh.. Hello? Leftist, did I just say? Nevermind.

I personally do not think that we need another cappie satellite state kind of thing in the Middle East today. What is more, it shouldn't be matching with most people's political inclinations in RevLeft anyway.