A Day In The Life Of Living Around Illegal Aliens

[AutumnWindIsARaider]

This was originally posted by someone who posts on a popular internet journal. I commend him for his patience and ability to suffer this kind of a hateful, destructive existence, brought on by criminals. Maybe you might consider reaching out and helping this neighborhood grow so that its citizens can realize their hopes and dreams. But it is unlikely, since most on the left seem to have no ability to feel compassion for others...Interesting diary and I hope he keeps more records of this hate filled environment.

K so none of this is anything to laugh about.. but the sheer absurdity of having so many bad things which are solely attributable to illegals happen in one day is overwhelming.. For a short background on myself, I’m currently living in a neighborhood which is overrun with illegals. Seeing as I have lived here for over 20 years on and off, I know many immigrants, legal and not, on a personal level.

1. 1:15 AM. I’m woken up by loud mariachi/cumbia music coming from next door. I am a very heavy sleeper and usually it doesn’t disturb me, but I notice that my bedroom walls are literally vibrating. (No, I’m not on drugs lol) I hope that it will pass and try to go back to sleep for a few minutes but it’s impossible. I walk in my front yard. There’s a group of men, about 15, in the front yard intoxicated beyond belief. They all live here; there’s about 30 people to the house. I ask them to turn it down and they start slurring.. one of them gets into their pickup truck and drives off. Sensing a DUI, I get inside and call the cops to file a noise complaint. I watch TV since I’m unable to go back to sleep and there’s no use arguing with someone so drunk they’re sitting in a pile of their own puke.

2. 2:45 AM. Music still blaring, I hear a loud altercation in Spanish a couple of houses down. Not wanting to get shot, I look outside the front window to see what’s going on. It quickly escalates, and one man STABS the other in the middle of the street. People start screaming, and the attacker gets into a car and drives off. I can’t make out the plates. I call the cops who still haven’t come about the noise complaint and they come in about ten minutes. I go outside and talk to the cops. I tell them everything I remember. As luck would have it, both parties were illegal aliens. The stabber was not caught that night, and the motive was unclear.

3. 3:20 AM. I’m still speaking with the cops when a huge noise comes from the corner. A pickup truck crashed into our brick fence, shattering a good six feet of it completely. Thankfully, the cops were already at my house! My entire family is sitting outside and runs over. Lo and behold, our drunken neighbor who had gotten into his pickup truck drunk two hours prior had crashed into our fence. He tried to run down the street but was so drunk he gave out a block later and got his shirt caught on a barb wire fence. The bottom of the truck bed and interior was littered with empty beer bottles. He is arrested on the spot. His wife and child stand crying in the street, saying things in Spanish. Walking through our backyard to assess the damage, the fence isn’t the only thing that suffered. Our cat, Lacy, had hid its kittens that it had a week earlier under a tree in our backyard. The kittens were crushed by the pickup truck. When the truck was moved I quickly buried them so that my younger sibling wouldn’t see. Yes, our neighbor too was an illegal, and we will never receive money from him to repair our fence. And my family do not have money to throw around to keep repairing fences (this isn’t the first time this has happened). Visibly shaken, my mother starts cursing out our neighbors, threatening them that they had better help repair our fence. They don’t speak English so they don’t understand. My entire family is very stressed over this. My visiting aunt has an asthma attack. At 5:00 AM, I am finally able to fall asleep.

4. 6:00 AM. With one hour of sleep, I wake up for work. It’s an important day at work that I can’t afford to miss. I go to our clothesline in the back yard to get my work clothes, and I notice they’re not there. As a matter of fact.. the entire ###### clothesline is gone! I think that I may be too tired and am probably imagining things, so I ask a relative and they confirm it isn’t there. I walk through the hole in our fence to the street. There’s a kid in their school uniform standing across the street who walks over to me. They tell me that they saw someone taking clothes and point to a house down the street. Shocked and extremely tired, I thank the kid when they point at a man walking down the street and pin him as the thief. I confront the man, telling him I’ve had a hard day already and ask if he took my clothes. He denies it. I then realize he lives in a known drophouse. Illegal. Not wanting to be late to work, I explained the problem to my parents who called the police.

5. 6: 00 PM. I barely made it through the day, dragging and still stressed over everything that had happened. I get a frantic call from my friend Azucena (LEGAL immigrant) who had been T-boned. By. An. Illegal. Immigrant. …

Seriously, how can SO MANY THINGS happen in one day?? It’s almost laughable.. but yeah. This is pretty much war at this point. All I have to tell *anyone* who says “Oh, but they’re just here to work… they’re not harming you..” is explain my lovely day WITH illegal immigrants and they promptly shut up. I’m tired of crooked politicians who think that pleasing the growing Hispanic demographic means going soft on the illegal immigration issue. I’ll see you at the November polls.

[RedAnarchist]

I assume that this person considers white Northern European-descended Protestants to be good, law-abiding people who never disturb their neighbours, never attack anyone, never get drunk etc? I mean, that&#39;s just the behaviour of those illegals <_<

I have no compassion for sad losers who feel that they have to make up falsehoods about people who they consider "illegal immigrants" and stereotype a whole population.

[fitzcarraldo]

I assume that this person considers white Northern European-descended Protestants to be good, law-abiding people who never disturb their neighbours, never attack anyone, never get drunk etc? I mean, that&#39;s just the behaviour of those illegals

Do you beleive the Mexicans are not living a third world culture?


I have no compassion for sad losers who feel that they have to make up falsehoods about people who they consider "illegal immigrants" and stereotype a whole population.
I would hate to live next to people used to existing in a third world slum.

[RedAnarchist]

If your country hadn&#39;t stolen much of their land in the 1800&#39;s then maybe they wouldn&#39;t be living in a third world country now.

I would much rather live next door to a mexican family than to some spoilt, middle-class white american.

[fitzcarraldo]

I would much rather live next door to a mexican family than to some spoilt, middle-class white american.

But who would like to live in the third world? Soon America will be third world. Look at Detroit, New Orleans.

[RedAnarchist]

I don&#39;t feel sad for you Americans. I feel sad for those who are already living in the Third World. Maybe you need to experience what they have gone through for decades because of us in Europe and the US.

[fitzcarraldo]

I don&#39;t feel sad for you Americans. I feel sad for those who are already living in the Third World. Maybe you need to experience what they have gone through for decades because of us in Europe and the US.
They are poor because of liberal socialist regimes, like in India, which deny full property rights. Do you know until the Indian Stock market collapsed a few weeks ago, one had to pay a tax when one&#39;s stock increased in value?

[adenoid hynkel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 07:12 AM

I would hate to live next to people used to existing in a third world slum.
How Christian of you...

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 08:26 AM

I don&#39;t feel sad for you Americans. I feel sad for those who are already living in the Third World. Maybe you need to experience what they have gone through for decades because of us in Europe and the US.
They are poor because of liberal socialist regimes, like in India, which deny full property rights. Do you know until the Indian Stock market collapsed a few weeks ago, one had to pay a tax when one&#39;s stock increased in value?
Last time I checked, a liberal was not a socialist. Socialists are progressives.

[fitzcarraldo]

I would hate to live next to people used to existing in a third world slum.


How Christian of you...

Its because many poor people have no respect for Gods laws, particularly those outlined in Autumnwindisaraider&#39;s posts. Love thy neighbour but tear not down the wall? How about crashing through the wall in a pickup? Do not kill? How about stabbing somone in the street? Treat thy neighbour as you yourself would wish to be treated? How about making their walls shake with a boombox at 3:00AM?

[adenoid hynkel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 08:03 AM

I would hate to live next to people used to existing in a third world slum.


How Christian of you...

Its because many poor people have no respect for Gods laws, particularly those outlined in Autumnwindisaraider&#39;s posts. Love thy neighbour but tear not down the wall? How about crashing through the wall in a pickup? Do not kill? How about stabbing somone in the street? Treat thy neighbour as you yourself would wish to be treated? How about making their walls shake with a boombox at 3:00AM?
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" (Matthew 19:24). Jesus Christ

Jesus said that the rich men cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven, obviously implying that they have no respect for Gods laws. He did not say anything similar about poor people. It is usual for Christians to use the Bible when they want to promote the submission of women, anti-gay staff, anti-free sex staff etc. and to ignore the Bible when it does not fit to their class interests, their racism or their nationalism..

[fitzcarraldo]

Last time I checked, a liberal was not a socialist. Socialists are progressives.
Liberals today are clearly left-wing. They want to &#39;save the rainforest&#39; because overwise we will offend &#39;mother-nature&#39;. They say we shoudn&#39;t get oil out of Alaska. Why? We will offend the glaciers? They want to &#39;save nature&#39; from humans. They do not understand that humans are more important than nature as we are created in God&#39;s own image. They do not understand the world is a resource placed here by God to be used.

And why are all the &#39;progressive&#39; regimes poorer than the primitive capitalist ones? It can&#39;t only be because they reject God.

[RaiseYourVoice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 08:56 AM

Last time I checked, a liberal was not a socialist. Socialists are progressives.
Liberals today are clearly left-wing. They want to &#39;save the rainforest&#39; because overwise we will offend &#39;mother-nature&#39;. They say we shoudn&#39;t get oil out of Alaska. Why? We will offend the glaciers? They want to &#39;save nature&#39; from humans. They do not understand that humans are more important than nature as we are created in God&#39;s own image. They do not understand the world is a resource placed here by God to be used.

And why are all the &#39;progressive&#39; regimes poorer than the primitive capitalist ones? It can&#39;t only be because they reject God.
And you do not understand than this planet and all "god created" will die if we dont change drastically soon.
Also you dont understand that this destruction of the rain forest, global heating etc. are a product of selfishness not of nessisity. i am sure your god loves that right?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Why the fuck should I believe a single word of the original post? It reads like something posted on Stormfront.


And why are all the &#39;progressive&#39; regimes poorer than the primitive capitalist ones? It can&#39;t only be because they reject God.

Yeah, like Sweden is a third-world shithole. Oh wait, it isn&#39;t. :rolleyes:

[Vladislav]

fitzcarraldo, what you must understand is that the sun doesn&#39;t shine out of &#39;Gods&#39; arse. Why? Because there is no god.

The topic at hand just seems like a bunch of racism directed at Mexicans who came to "The Land Of The Free" (America) and now they are being put down as some kind of disease that is polluting America. If that guy doesn&#39;t like his neighborhood then he can move the fuck out to some community full of middle class white kids. At least his family has a home and shit. He is in no situation to be complaining about anything.

[fitzcarraldo]

Yeah, like Sweden is a third-world shithole. Oh wait, it isn&#39;t.
The &#39;people&#39; who run that ice-factory are lucky to get 5 hours of sunlight. You think its not a third world country? Tell that to the founder of Ikea who had to flee to Switzerland where he could actually conduct business without interference? Move to Sweden if its so cool. I bet they don&#39;t even let you in. That&#39;s what socialism is all about: "Papers Please&#33;" Compare it to the Evil capitalist United States that prevents so many Mexicans from entering. :rolleyes:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

The &#39;people&#39; who run that ice-factory are lucky to get 5 hours of sunlight.

Your ignorance of Scandinavian climate and geography would be astounding were it not for the fact you are a total shit-eating moron. They get plenty of sunshine in the summer, retard. And it doesn&#39;t snow all the time, contrary to your ignorant opinion.


You think its not a third world country? Tell that to the founder of Ikea who had to flee to Switzerland where he could actually conduct business without interference?

Even if your hyperbolic statement about Ikea&#39;s founder was true, that does not make Sweden a third world countri no matter how you twist it. Sorry, no dice.


Move to Sweden if its so cool.

I don&#39;t have to. I live in the UK, with it&#39;s "commie socialist healthcare" and other benefits unavailable in the good ol&#39; US of A.


That&#39;s what socialism is all about: "Papers Please&#33;" Compare it to the Evil capitalist United States that prevents so many Mexicans from entering. :rolleyes:

I got two words for ya if you think the US is a paragon of freedom: "Patriot Act". How do you like them apples?

[fitzcarraldo]

Yes, you seem to be quite a nice guy NoXion. Thank you for those kind words. Just because the revolution is up shit-creek is no reason to take it out on me you understand. I&#39;m just an innocent bystander. Please see some anger management before you speak to me again.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 06:57 AM
Yes, you seem to be quite a nice guy NoXion. Thank you for those kind words. Just because the revolution is up shit-creek is no reason to take it out on me you understand. I&#39;m just an innocent bystander. Please see some anger management before you speak to me again.
Many of us have a lower tolerance level for idiocy than NoXion.

[fitzcarraldo]

Many of us have a lower tolerance level for idiocy than NoXion.

At least I know they have only one hour of sunlight in winter. I guess the communism had spread to his brain.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 07:42 AM

Many of us have a lower tolerance level for idiocy than NoXion.

At least I know they have only one hour of sunlight in winter. I guess the communism had spread to his brain.
Nope--wrong.

Stockholm experiences only about 5 1/2 hours of daylight; in areas as far north as Lappland, there are nearly 20 hours of total darkness relieved by a mere 4 hours of twilight.
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-30522

And by the way, 4 =/= 1
5.5 =/= 1

Just so you know.

[fitzcarraldo]

That&#39;s in summer you retard. And its what I said, 5 hours. In winter it is one hour.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 11:57 AM
Yes, you seem to be quite a nice guy NoXion. Thank you for those kind words. Just because the revolution is up shit-creek is no reason to take it out on me you understand. I&#39;m just an innocent bystander. Please see some anger management before you speak to me again.
And now the troll attempts to play the "what? Who me?" act that fools nobody with a functioning brain.

And please don&#39;t mistake my contempt for anger.


At least I know they have only one hour of sunlight in winter. I guess the communism had spread to his brain.

Actually, trolling fucktard, it is you who needs to check yourself for brain rot.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 08:00 AM
That&#39;s in summer you retard. And its what I said, 5 hours. In winter it is one hour.

From about late May until mid-July sunlight lasts around the clock north of the Arctic Circle, but even as far south as Stockholm the nights during this period have only a few hours of semidarkness.

In mid-December, on the other hand, Stockholm experiences only about 5 1/2 hours of daylight; in areas as far north as Lappland, there are nearly 20 hours of total darkness relieved by a mere 4 hours of twilight.

As far as I know, "mid-December" is winter in the Northern Hemisphere.

Make your words soft, "retard," because you may end up eating them.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Looks like fitzcarraldo just got owned.

[RaiseYourVoice]

That&#39;s in summer you retard
who needs anger management here?


I guess the communism had spread to his brain.
communism comes from the brain.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 08:28 AM
Looks like fitzcarraldo just got owned.
Quoted for truth and a new page.

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 07:13 AM
If your country hadn&#39;t stolen much of their land in the 1800&#39;s then maybe they wouldn&#39;t be living in a third world country now.

I would much rather live next door to a mexican family than to some spoilt, middle-class white american.
1) no thats doubtful, their probelm isn&#39;t lack of resources but bad governance.

2) so you&#39;d rather live next to crimanls then normal peole?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 02:44 PM
2) so you&#39;d rather live next to crimanls then normal peole?
Ah yes, the baseless assumption that because a family is mexican, they must be criminals. What a racist **** you are.

[Sabocat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 03:18 AM

But who would like to live in the third world? Soon America will be third world. Look at Detroit, New Orleans.
You fucking racist piece of shit.

I&#39;ve been to Detroit. Have you? I&#39;ve talked with workers in Detroit and walked picket lines with them. Have you?

Detroit is economically gutted from the automobile industry pulling up stakes and seeking cheaper labor pools to exploit in Mexico and elsewhere, and leaving the indigenous workforce to rot. 30,000 workers eliminated because of a factory closing is not the fault of immigrants. Fuck you.

I&#39;ve been to New Orleans. Have you?

New Orleans is fucked from poor infrastructure, poor emergency management, and racism.

The only "thing" to blame for Detroit and New Orleans is capitalism. Pure and simple. Not immigration or immigrants.


1) no thats doubtful, their probelm isn&#39;t lack of resources but bad governance.

Their problem is that their governance and economy is determined by the U.S. NAFTA wasn&#39;t created to help Mexican residents. It was implemented for U.S. business only.

[theraven]

You fucking racist piece of shit.

I&#39;ve been to Detroit. Have you? I&#39;ve talked with workers in Detroit and walked picket lines with them. Have you?

Detroit is economically gutted from the automobile industry pulling up stakes and seeking cheaper labor pools to exploit in Mexico and elsewhere, and leaving the indigenous workforce to rot. 30,000 workers eliminated because of a factory closing is not the fault of immigrants. Fuck you.

detriot was fucked becaus their union made thier wages obsenly high, which caused companies like ford and Gm to become less compeitive.


I&#39;ve been to New Orleans. Have you?

New Orleans is fucked from poor infrastructure, poor emergency management, and racism.

The only "thing" to blame for Detroit and New Orleans is capitalism. Pure and simple. Not immigration or immigrants.

no new orleans was fucked by god



Their problem is that their governance and economy is determined by the U.S. NAFTA wasn&#39;t created to help Mexican residents. It was implemented for U.S. business only.

they were in th shitter long before nafta, and in fact they have gotten more prospeurs under nafta

[theraven]

Originally posted by NoXion+Jun 25 2006, 02:47 PM--> (NoXion @ Jun 25 2006, 02:47 PM)
[email protected] 25 2006, 02:44 PM
2) so you&#39;d rather live next to crimanls then normal peole?
Ah yes, the baseless assumption that because a family is mexican, they must be criminals. What a racist **** you are. [/b]
no i was refering to illegeal aliens, i just assumed that was the kidn of mexicans we&#39;re talking about. anyway there are pletny of spoiled middle class mexicans in america.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 02:44 PM
2) so you&#39;d rather live next to crimanls then normal peole?
Totally, but depends on their crime, theiving tax-dogers, weed dealers? I&#39;d love to live next to them&#33; Or at least, wouldn&#39;t be particularly bothered by them.

[theraven]

Originally posted by Additives Free+Jun 25 2006, 03:33 PM--> (Additives Free @ Jun 25 2006, 03:33 PM)
[email protected] 25 2006, 02:44 PM
2) so you&#39;d rather live next to crimanls then normal peole?
Totally, but depends on their crime, theiving tax-dogers, weed dealers? I&#39;d love to live next to them&#33; Or at least, wouldn&#39;t be particularly bothered by them. [/b]
oh yea I&#39;m sure you would love that :lol:

never lived in a bad part of town have you?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 03:24 PM

You fucking racist piece of shit.

I&#39;ve been to Detroit. Have you? I&#39;ve talked with workers in Detroit and walked picket lines with them. Have you?

Detroit is economically gutted from the automobile industry pulling up stakes and seeking cheaper labor pools to exploit in Mexico and elsewhere, and leaving the indigenous workforce to rot. 30,000 workers eliminated because of a factory closing is not the fault of immigrants. Fuck you.

detriot was fucked becaus their union made thier wages obsenly high, which caused companies like ford and Gm to become less compeitive.
Ah so it&#39;s the fault of the WORKERS who were fed up with Ford and GM giving them shitty wages and treating them like subhuman shite. Sorry for a second there I thought it was the owners of Ford and GM for caring more about profit margins and their own pay packets than treating their employees as human beings.

As for all this nationalist, racist shite about living next to &#39;them damn illegals&#33;&#39;you can grasp that idea with your inbred, webbed fingers and jam it straight up your jacksee. The immagrants arec ocming over to your country because your country raped theirs in the arse, over and over again. Bollocks to your utter contemtable, retarded CRAP as regards &#39;oh it&#39;s the commies that are fucking over those countries.&#39; when you consider that the capitalist superpower (U&#036;A) has enough economic power to crush these countries into third world holes.

Fitzcarraldo; As regards scandanavia. I always thought what determined if a country was third world was the socio economic state of it rather than when the sun did or did not shine. Forgive me for my &#39;ignorance&#39; on that front. Also I would consider it good that the founder of IKEA had to go somewhere else to start his buissness for two reasons: 1) They always leave the vital part out of their flat-packs and you never have the right size allen key. and 2) because entrpeneurs and the &#39;owners&#39; of companies are the utter scum of the earth.

[theraven]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+Jun 25 2006, 03:49 PM--> (Jazzratt @ Jun 25 2006, 03:49 PM)
[email protected] 25 2006, 03:24 PM

You fucking racist piece of shit.

I&#39;ve been to Detroit. Have you? I&#39;ve talked with workers in Detroit and walked picket lines with them. Have you?

Detroit is economically gutted from the automobile industry pulling up stakes and seeking cheaper labor pools to exploit in Mexico and elsewhere, and leaving the indigenous workforce to rot. 30,000 workers eliminated because of a factory closing is not the fault of immigrants. Fuck you.

detriot was fucked becaus their union made thier wages obsenly high, which caused companies like ford and Gm to become less compeitive.
Ah so it&#39;s the fault of the WORKERS who were fed up with Ford and GM giving them shitty wages and treating them like subhuman shite. Sorry for a second there I thought it was the owners of Ford and GM for caring more about profit margins and their own pay packets than treating their employees as human beings.

As for all this nationalist, racist shite about living next to &#39;them damn illegals&#33;&#39;you can grasp that idea with your inbred, webbed fingers and jam it straight up your jacksee. The immagrants arec ocming over to your country because your country raped theirs in the arse, over and over again. Bollocks to your utter contemtable, retarded CRAP as regards &#39;oh it&#39;s the commies that are fucking over those countries.&#39; when you consider that the capitalist superpower (U&#036;A) has enough economic power to crush these countries into third world holes.

Fitzcarraldo; As regards scandanavia. I always thought what determined if a country was third world was the socio economic state of it rather than when the sun did or did not shine. Forgive me for my &#39;ignorance&#39; on that front. Also I would consider it good that the founder of IKEA had to go somewhere else to start his buissness for two reasons: 1) They always leave the vital part out of their flat-packs and you never have the right size allen key. and 2) because entrpeneurs and the &#39;owners&#39; of companies are the utter scum of the earth. [/b]
1) if ford and gm don&#39;t make money they can&#39;t very well pay their workers.
PS companies exist to make money, not jobs.

2) I have no probelm at all with immirgants, just law breakers.

3) the problem with mexico etc. is that its govenrmetn was corrupt and unhelpful to a free market which made a good economy impossible.

4)

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 04:03 PM
1) if ford and gm don&#39;t make money they can&#39;t very well pay their workers.
PS companies exist to make money, not jobs.

2) I have no probelm at all with immirgants, just law breakers.

3) the problem with mexico etc. is that its govenrmetn was corrupt and unhelpful to a free market which made a good economy impossible.

4)
1) Companies DO exist to make money not jobs. Which is precisly why I hate them and precisly why they fucked over places like detroit.

2) Odd stance for a &#39;libertarian&#39; to take. Concidering exactly what law breaker means I have no problem with most fo them, hell I&#39;m very good friends with some. Also what do you mean by &#39;I have no problem with immagrants just law breakers&#39;? As if you can only be one or the other and as if the two things had any connection.

3) &#39;Corrupt&#39; is a word I have a lot of problem with as it seems to have it&#39;s tradtional meaning and the meaning of &#39;not submitting to imperialist dogma&#39;. As for ;unhelpful to a free market&#39; fucking good for them. The free market has created more poverty and suffering than any other single human idea.

4)?

[theraven]

1) Companies DO exist to make money not jobs. Which is precisly why I hate them and precisly why they fucked over places like detroit.

because profit is the incentaive to make things efficent and produce more. they didn&#39;t fukc over places like detroiot, the econmy changed and they coulnd&#39;t support waht they had in detriot. economics baby...


2) Odd stance for a &#39;libertarian&#39; to take. Concidering exactly what law breaker means I have no problem with most fo them, hell I&#39;m very good friends with some. Also what do you mean by &#39;I have no problem with immagrants just law breakers&#39;? As if you can only be one or the other and as if the two things had any connection.


well this is a topic about illegali immiragion. my point was that i have no problem with immiragts who come here legally, but those that come illegaly I do.



3) &#39;Corrupt&#39; is a word I have a lot of problem with as it seems to have it&#39;s tradtional meaning and the meaning of &#39;not submitting to imperialist dogma&#39;. As for ;unhelpful to a free market&#39; fucking good for them. The free market has created more poverty and suffering than any other single human idea.

the free market has created more richness and propsert then any other system of economics. the worlds populaino under a capitlsit system has grown dramtically, people live better then they ever did before, ever those in abject poverty have at least a little better thne their ancestors 500 years ago. to deny the mircals of the free market is to deny reality.

[Comrade-Z]

This thread might as well have been titled "A Day in the Life of Living in a Poverty-Stricken Hellhole." Honestly, does one&#39;s genetic lineage make one more genetically pre-disposed to stabbing someone else? Please. :rolleyes: Enough with the racist bullcrap.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 04:26 PM


1) Companies DO exist to make money not jobs. Which is precisly why I hate them and precisly why they fucked over places like detroit.

because profit is the incentaive to make things efficent and produce more. they didn&#39;t fukc over places like detroiot, the econmy changed and they coulnd&#39;t support waht they had in detriot. economics baby...

Oh so it&#39;s fine because the economic winds winds just happened to change. You tell an unemployed, poor person that you think the system that made them that way was the most fabulous thing in the world and try not to get a punch in the face. As for the idea it is the incentive for better effiecency and faster production BOLLOCKS it&#39;s the incentive to become a greedy person who views paying the people who do all their actual work as no more than an unfourtunate necessity.





2) Odd stance for a &#39;libertarian&#39; to take. Concidering exactly what law breaker means I have no problem with most fo them, hell I&#39;m very good friends with some. Also what do you mean by &#39;I have no problem with immagrants just law breakers&#39;? As if you can only be one or the other and as if the two things had any connection.


well this is a topic about illegali immiragion. my point was that i have no problem with immiragts who come here legally, but those that come illegaly I do.

Again an odd stance for a &#39;libertarian&#39; because that peron moving here neither infringes your property rights or your well being (in a direct sense.). Perfect sense for a neocon though as it is essentially an anti-human thought. If somone wants to come to your country what the fuck right dioes your government have to stop them?





3) &#39;Corrupt&#39; is a word I have a lot of problem with as it seems to have it&#39;s tradtional meaning and the meaning of &#39;not submitting to imperialist dogma&#39;. As for ;unhelpful to a free market&#39; fucking good for them. The free market has created more poverty and suffering than any other single human idea.

the free market has created more richness and propsert then any other system of economics. the worlds populaino under a capitlsit system has grown dramtically, people live better then they ever did before, ever those in abject poverty have at least a little better thne their ancestors 500 years ago. to deny the mircals of the free market is to deny reality.


Sure because cambodian sweatshops are so much better than the old camboadian way of life...fucktard. Maybe those in abject poverty in the &#39;advanced&#39; nations are better off, but so fucking what it&#39;s still an inexcusable system, a massive skid mark on the trousers of time. It basically gives people the &#39;right&#39; to treat thousands of their own species like shit. Fuck that system it leads to ****s who believ that the markets&#39; should be more free than the people and that&#39;s just twisted logic.

[Sabocat]

detriot was fucked becaus their union made thier wages obsenly high, which caused companies like ford and Gm to become less compeitive.

No, it made their profit levels lower. So in the nature of capitalism, they sought to exploit a cheaper labor pool of which of course they did.

So the workers salaries were obscenely high, but somehow the CEO&#39;s and executives salaries (which never go down by the way) are not? I love this mentality. Workers are not allowed to make a good wage but the executive class are. Go fuck yourself.


no new orleans was fucked by god

No, New Orleans was fucked because no money was spent on ensuring that the levy&#39;s weren&#39;t breached in such a circumstance.

God? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 07:13 AM
If your country hadn&#39;t stolen much of their land in the 1800&#39;s then maybe they wouldn&#39;t be living in a third world country now.

I would much rather live next door to a mexican family than to some spoilt, middle-class white american.
Agreed. I&#39;ve lived all over the world and middle class WASP Americans are the biggest moaners ever.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 03:24 PM
no new orleans was fucked by god

Then we communists should rise up and crush God. :hammer:

[theraven]

Oh so it&#39;s fine because the economic winds winds just happened to change. You tell an unemployed, poor person that you think the system that made them that way was the most fabulous thing in the world and try not to get a punch in the face. As for the idea it is the incentive for better effiecency and faster production BOLLOCKS it&#39;s the incentive to become a greedy person who views paying the people who do all their actual work as no more than an unfourtunate necessity.


even that unemployed person is probably better off than most people were 500 years ago.



Again an odd stance for a &#39;libertarian&#39; because that peron moving here neither infringes your property rights or your well being (in a direct sense.). Perfect sense for a neocon though as it is essentially an anti-human thought. If somone wants to come to your country what the fuck right dioes your government have to stop them?

they a violating the soverignty of my nation by breaking its laws and trespassing its borders without permission. the very basis of a nation is that it can protect its soviegnty.



Sure because cambodian sweatshops are so much better than the old camboadian way of life...fucktard. Maybe those in abject poverty in the &#39;advanced&#39; nations are better off, but so fucking what it&#39;s still an inexcusable system, a massive skid mark on the trousers of time. It basically gives people the &#39;right&#39; to treat thousands of their own species like shit. Fuck that system it leads to ****s who believ that the markets&#39; should be more free than the people and that&#39;s just twisted logic.

No, i&#39;m pretty sure those sweat shops are probably better, otherwise those ple would still be doing what they did before. let me clue you in on what was generally the case pre-factories for most people. you rose at abot 5 am, worked VERY hard doing farm work all year round, and then at the end of the year chances were you barely made enough to break even. compared to that life a factory is a dream job.




No, it made their profit levels lower. So in the nature of capitalism, they sought to exploit a cheaper labor pool of which of course they did.

yes, in capilism you always seek the cheapest product aviable, so GM compared the 25 dollar an hour wages in detriot, plus extenive benfits to the 2 dollar an hour wages in cambodia and said "well that settles that". GM exists to produce a product for a low price and to make a profit offof it.


So the workers salaries were obscenely high, but somehow the CEO&#39;s and executives salaries (which never go down by the way) are not? I love this mentality. Workers are not allowed to make a good wage but the executive class are. Go fuck yourself.

Honestly I am not a fan of some of the recent exeuctive salaries. there should be at least part thats based on company perfroamnce.

[RevMARKSman]

even that unemployed person is probably better off than most people were 500 years ago.

News flash: maybe they&#39;d be even BETTER off if they hadn&#39;t just got screwed by capitalism. :o

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 07:05 PM

even that unemployed person is probably better off than most people were 500 years ago.

News flash: maybe they&#39;d be even BETTER off if they hadn&#39;t just got screwed by capitalism. :o
they would undoubtedly be better off if they had a job then if they didn&#39;t, but they are still better off then even their employed ancestors, thus proving that capitlsim is widely benifical...

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by theraven+Jun 25 2006, 02:41 PM--> (theraven @ Jun 25 2006, 02:41 PM)
[email protected] 25 2006, 07:05 PM

even that unemployed person is probably better off than most people were 500 years ago.

News flash: maybe they&#39;d be even BETTER off if they hadn&#39;t just got screwed by capitalism. :o
they would undoubtedly be better off if they had a job then if they didn&#39;t, but they are still better off then even their employed ancestors, thus proving that capitlsim is widely benifical... [/b]
Proving that TECHNOLOGY is widely beneficial.
If there were true communism instead of capitalism, think about how much BETTER off he would be.

[theraven]

Originally posted by MonicaTTmed+Jun 25 2006, 07:45 PM--> (MonicaTTmed @ Jun 25 2006, 07:45 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 02:41 PM

[email protected] 25 2006, 07:05 PM

even that unemployed person is probably better off than most people were 500 years ago.

News flash: maybe they&#39;d be even BETTER off if they hadn&#39;t just got screwed by capitalism. :o
they would undoubtedly be better off if they had a job then if they didn&#39;t, but they are still better off then even their employed ancestors, thus proving that capitlsim is widely benifical...
Proving that TECHNOLOGY is widely beneficial.
If there were true communism instead of capitalism, think about how much BETTER off he would be. [/b]
funny how technological innovation and capitlism seem to conicide so well...

:lmao:

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by theraven+Jun 25 2006, 03:39 PM--> (theraven @ Jun 25 2006, 03:39 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 02:41 PM

[email protected] 25 2006, 07:05 PM

even that unemployed person is probably better off than most people were 500 years ago.

News flash: maybe they&#39;d be even BETTER off if they hadn&#39;t just got screwed by capitalism. :o
they would undoubtedly be better off if they had a job then if they didn&#39;t, but they are still better off then even their employed ancestors, thus proving that capitlsim is widely benifical...
Proving that TECHNOLOGY is widely beneficial.
If there were true communism instead of capitalism, think about how much BETTER off he would be.
funny how technological innovation and capitlism seem to conicide so well...

:lmao: [/b]
Funny how technology and human beings seem to coincide so well...

[theraven]

Originally posted by MonicaTTmed+Jun 25 2006, 09:39 PM--> (MonicaTTmed @ Jun 25 2006, 09:39 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 02:41 PM

[email protected] 25 2006, 07:05 PM

even that unemployed person is probably better off than most people were 500 years ago.

News flash: maybe they&#39;d be even BETTER off if they hadn&#39;t just got screwed by capitalism. :o
they would undoubtedly be better off if they had a job then if they didn&#39;t, but they are still better off then even their employed ancestors, thus proving that capitlsim is widely benifical...
Proving that TECHNOLOGY is widely beneficial.
If there were true communism instead of capitalism, think about how much BETTER off he would be.
funny how technological innovation and capitlism seem to conicide so well...

:lmao:
Funny how technology and human beings seem to coincide so well... [/b]
that made no sense..of ocurse humans and technogloy conicide...but its funny how the system that saw so many more inveione dthe the preiouvs thousands of years was under captilism

[Comrade-Z]

funny how technological innovation and capitlism seem to conicide so well...

That&#39;s actually a very Marxist thing to say.

Capitalism does tend to manifest itself around factors of production that are at a level of technological development that we would call the "industrial age," just as feudalism was a natural social arrangement for an epoch in which land was the most decisive factor of production, and just as slavery was a natural social arrangement for an epoch in which human labor was the most decisive factor of production.

(It is my hypothesis that communism will prove itself to be the most natural social arrangement for a digital epoch--an epoch in which information and its processing and communication become the decisive factor of production. Thus, whereas under capitalism anyone who controls industry and capital is dominant, we will increasingly see a shift to where ordinary workers and their informational processing capabilities become dominant in the production process. This will give the working class increased leverage and awareness of its own power, worth, and entitlements, and it will necessitate an open, free society in which information can be exchanged without worry of non-democratic, totalitarian interference from centralized government, centralized business, and property restrictions.)

But anyways, I won&#39;t dispute that capitalism has its place in history. It certainly is better than feudalism. If capitalists would be realistic and leave things at that, then I wouldn&#39;t have a problem. But they don&#39;t. They try to create an entire mythology and meta-narrative around how capitalism is "morally right," "the most universally workable and efficient system" (ignoring the fact that this wasn&#39;t the case at the lower levels of technological development, at which feudalism and slavery were the more workable systems), and the apex of human happiness, blah blah blah. They denigrate revolution in and of itself, while the fact remains that capitalism and the rule of the capitalist class was borne out of revolution (Ditto with "terrorism" and violating formerly-believed "fundamental rights," such as divine-right rule and the fundamental right to own slaves and sacrifice virgins to Poseidon.) They preach and encourage religion, while the fact remains that capitalism emerged only after a prolongued, vicious ideological attack on feudalism&#39;s main ideological foundation--religion. They assert the benefits of greediness and selfishness for themselves while acting indignant when workers try to, likewise, be greedy and selfish and grab a greater amount of wealth. It is filled with so much mysticism and hypocrisy that somone must cut through it all&#33;

[theraven]

Originally posted by Comrade&#045;[email protected] 25 2006, 10:36 PM

funny how technological innovation and capitlism seem to conicide so well...

That&#39;s actually a very Marxist thing to say.

Capitalism does tend to manifest itself around factors of production that are at a level of technological development that we would call the "industrial age," just as feudalism was a natural social arrangement for an epoch in which land was the most decisive factor of production, and just as slavery was a natural social arrangement for an epoch in which human labor was the most decisive factor of production.

(It is my hypothesis that communism will prove itself to be the most natural social arrangement for a digital epoch--an epoch in which information and its processing and communication become the decisive factor of production. Thus, whereas under capitalism anyone who controls industry and capital is dominant, we will increasingly see a shift to where ordinary workers and their informational processing capabilities become dominant in the production process. This will give the working class increased leverage and awareness of its own power, worth, and entitlements, and it will necessitate an open, free society in which information can be exchanged without worry of non-democratic, totalitarian interference from centralized government, centralized business, and property restrictions.)

But anyways, I won&#39;t dispute that capitalism has its place in history. It certainly is better than feudalism. If capitalists would be realistic and leave things at that, then I wouldn&#39;t have a problem. But they don&#39;t. They try to create an entire mythology and meta-narrative around how capitalism is "morally right," "the most universally workable and efficient system" (ignoring the fact that this wasn&#39;t the case at the lower levels of technological development, at which feudalism and slavery were the more workable systems), and the apex of human happiness, blah blah blah. They denigrate revolution in and of itself, while the fact remains that capitalism and the rule of the capitalist class was borne out of revolution (Ditto with "terrorism" and violating formerly-believed "fundamental rights," such as divine-right rule and the fundamental right to own slaves and sacrifice virgins to Poseidon.) They preach and encourage religion, while the fact remains that capitalism emerged only after a prolongued, vicious ideological attack on feudalism&#39;s main ideological foundation--religion. They assert the benefits of greediness and selfishness for themselves while acting indignant when workers try to, likewise, be greedy and selfish and grab a greater amount of wealth. It is filled with so much mysticism and hypocrisy that somone must cut through it all&#33;
that argumetn i can actually accept sort of. I have no trouble imaging some sort of slow change into a vaguely communism government. i don&#39;t see a revolution being the cause, nor do i see it in the near future. perhaps someday....

[Dyst]

that made no sense..of ocurse humans and technogloy conicide...but its funny how the system that saw so many more inveione dthe the preiouvs thousands of years was under captilism


It&#39;s not "funny" at all, smartass. It&#39;s called progress.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by theraven+Jun 25 2006, 05:02 PM--> (theraven @ Jun 25 2006, 05:02 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 02:41 PM

[email protected] 25 2006, 07:05 PM

even that unemployed person is probably better off than most people were 500 years ago.

News flash: maybe they&#39;d be even BETTER off if they hadn&#39;t just got screwed by capitalism. :o
they would undoubtedly be better off if they had a job then if they didn&#39;t, but they are still better off then even their employed ancestors, thus proving that capitlsim is widely benifical...
Proving that TECHNOLOGY is widely beneficial.
If there were true communism instead of capitalism, think about how much BETTER off he would be.
funny how technological innovation and capitlism seem to conicide so well...

:lmao:
Funny how technology and human beings seem to coincide so well...
that made no sense..of ocurse humans and technogloy conicide...but its funny how the system that saw so many more inveione dthe the preiouvs thousands of years was under captilism [/b]
It&#39;s also very funny that someone who uses such technology can&#39;t use it properly...Get a fucking spellchecker&#33;

Under feudalism, not everyone was ALLOWED to research or to develop. They just had to go into military service. Under capitalism, there&#39;s an incentive--money. In communism, there&#39;s also an incentive--the good of society AND the esteem of your comrades.

[red team]

i don&#39;t see a revolution being the cause, nor do i see it in the near future.

But what you fail to see is that a decaying social system fails to act rationally in its best interest. By privatising critical public services of the state like utilities, health and education it&#39;s actually producing a less capable workforce for the economic system to exploit. What&#39;s going to happen is that the best and brightest will flee toward private corporate enclaves of wealth and luxury while leaving the rest of the state to rot much like when Rome fell. The senators, who were simply members of the wealthy landowner/slaveowner class, took the money of the empire and ran to their private fiefdoms which later developed into kingdoms.

You can see the outlines of this sort of "society" as the public education system in the U.S. collapses. There may be efforts by private individuals to "save education" but this will be a losing battle as no one company or individual will have the resources to substitute the financial resources of the state to permanently fund a public institution like education. Think about why Bill Gates is complaining about all the dumb graduates coming out of the system that he can&#39;t hire to work for his company&#33;? But as the financial position of companies are threaten by incompetent workers you&#39;ll see another solution to this problem of training skilled workers in the form of private company schools. If Capitalism does survive the next decade expect kids to go to Microsoft High or IBM High.

Capitalism can either go foward to another more progressive social system, but that&#39;s not the only alternative. Going back toward a separate collection of autonomous gated communities of autocratic rule cannot be ruled out so you may expect to be living in company towns in every sense of the word including having company utilities and healtcare, company laws, company "police" and company courts. The internet can be privatized so it becomes just another infotainment channel of their respective ISPs can also be a possiblity so digital technologies will not be a determining factor simply by itself, political consciousness will still remain important.

[theraven]

Originally posted by MonicaTTmed+Jun 26 2006, 12:56 AM--> (MonicaTTmed @ Jun 26 2006, 12:56 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 02:41 PM

[email protected] 25 2006, 07:05 PM

even that unemployed person is probably better off than most people were 500 years ago.

News flash: maybe they&#39;d be even BETTER off if they hadn&#39;t just got screwed by capitalism. :o
they would undoubtedly be better off if they had a job then if they didn&#39;t, but they are still better off then even their employed ancestors, thus proving that capitlsim is widely benifical...
Proving that TECHNOLOGY is widely beneficial.
If there were true communism instead of capitalism, think about how much BETTER off he would be.
funny how technological innovation and capitlism seem to conicide so well...

:lmao:
Funny how technology and human beings seem to coincide so well...
that made no sense..of ocurse humans and technogloy conicide...but its funny how the system that saw so many more inveione dthe the preiouvs thousands of years was under captilism
It&#39;s also very funny that someone who uses such technology can&#39;t use it properly...Get a fucking spellchecker&#33;

Under feudalism, not everyone was ALLOWED to research or to develop. They just had to go into military service. Under capitalism, there&#39;s an incentive--money. In communism, there&#39;s also an incentive--the good of society AND the esteem of your comrades. [/b]
what are you talking about? most people in fuedal days were serfs not in the military. military was the ruling class-it always is. (why do you think "knight" is a noble term?)

btw can I use the esteem of my comrades to buy stuff? oh i can&#39;t? then what good is it? oh and also you get esteem in capitislim too-you just get money as well.

[fitzcarraldo]

But what you fail to see is that a decaying social system fails to act rationally in its best interest
That&#39;s becasue it fails to decay, unlike communism.


What&#39;s going to happen is that the best and brightest will flee toward private corporate enclaves of wealth and luxury while leaving the rest of the state to rot much like when Rome fell. The senators, who were simply members of the wealthy landowner/slaveowner class, took the money of the empire and ran to their private fiefdoms which later developed into kingdoms
Why should everyone have the same wealth?


If Capitalism does survive the next decade expect kids to go to Microsoft High or IBM High.
Gosh, that would be so horrific. We have to kill ourselves before that happens. :rolleyes:


Capitalism can either go foward to another more progressive social system, but that&#39;s not the only alternative. Going back toward a separate collection of autonomous gated communities of autocratic rule cannot be ruled out so you may expect to be living in company towns in every sense of the word including having company utilities and healtcare, company laws, company "police" and company courts.
I&#39;m shaking. Your predictions are so terrible. I feel like there is no hope left.

[red team]

What&#39;s the combined total of the employees hired by corporations? Probably a lot less than the population of the world. So what are we then? The rest that the corporations find they "don&#39;t require our services". Living in a dirty wood panel shack with no electricity, plumbing or healthcare or left to die if we can&#39;t even manage that I suppose?

So as far as fighting for unalienable human rights is concern that&#39;s also out of the question I suppose? A human being is worth as much as his or her ability to contribute to a company&#39;s bottom line then? Or actually worth as much as upper management can get away paying you since you&#39;re expendable just like any other employee if you get too demanding of your rights.

Again, my view that this future is of unending oppression by the wealthy privileged against the poor is accurate. We don&#39;t agree on such a vision for the future. Sorry, I don&#39;t accept a future where the governing authority is CEO Gates or Lord Warren Buffet. You see I don&#39;t want to live in Microsoft ville or IBM town. I want to burn them down.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by theraven+Jun 25 2006, 09:33 PM--> (theraven @ Jun 25 2006, 09:33 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 02:41 PM

[email protected] 25 2006, 07:05 PM

even that unemployed person is probably better off than most people were 500 years ago.

News flash: maybe they&#39;d be even BETTER off if they hadn&#39;t just got screwed by capitalism. :o
they would undoubtedly be better off if they had a job then if they didn&#39;t, but they are still better off then even their employed ancestors, thus proving that capitlsim is widely benifical...
Proving that TECHNOLOGY is widely beneficial.
If there were true communism instead of capitalism, think about how much BETTER off he would be.
funny how technological innovation and capitlism seem to conicide so well...

:lmao:
Funny how technology and human beings seem to coincide so well...
that made no sense..of ocurse humans and technogloy conicide...but its funny how the system that saw so many more inveione dthe the preiouvs thousands of years was under captilism
It&#39;s also very funny that someone who uses such technology can&#39;t use it properly...Get a fucking spellchecker&#33;

Under feudalism, not everyone was ALLOWED to research or to develop. They just had to go into military service. Under capitalism, there&#39;s an incentive--money. In communism, there&#39;s also an incentive--the good of society AND the esteem of your comrades.
what are you talking about? most people in fuedal days were serfs not in the military. military was the ruling class-it always is. (why do you think "knight" is a noble term?)

btw can I use the esteem of my comrades to buy stuff? oh i can&#39;t? then what good is it? oh and also you get esteem in capitislim too-you just get money as well. [/b]
The esteem of your comrades will increase your satisfaction with what you&#39;re doing, and you&#39;ll work harder as a result.
HOW MANY TIMES MUST I POUND IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD THAT IN COMMUNISM, YOU DON&#39;T "BUY" ANYTHING? There is no CURRENCY, so there is no BUYING. Things are GIVEN, not SOLD. EVERYONE gets a good if it is developed and available.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Originally posted by patton+Jun 26 2006, 10:41 PM--> (patton &#064; Jun 26 2006, 10:41 PM)
[email protected] 25 2006, 01:33 PM



I guess the communism had spread to his brain.
communism comes from the brain.
Communism comes from the ass. [/b]
That&#39;s certainly converted me to a staunch supporter of laissez-faire capitalism.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 10:41 PM
Communism comes from the ass.
Nobel prize for literature ladies and gentelmaen, nobel prize for literature....

As for &#39;capitalism and technological advancement go hand in hand&#39; bollocks - we advanced in feudelism and then out of it, does it then follow that feudalism is the greatest way of bringing about innovation?

[ummProfessional]

Things are GIVEN, not SOLD. EVERYONE gets a good if it is developed and available.


things are given? so who gives them out? Santa Claus? what if i have been a bad boy the whole year? or if Santa Claus isn&#39;t so generous. And Everyone gets a good IF it is developed and available? so we are all going to have to conform to whats at our disposition? if society as a whole doesn&#39;t like riding skateboards and so there is no real demand, IM FUCKED IF I LIKE SKATING&#33;? :o

:rolleyes: great and fair world isn&#39;t it&#33;&#33; lmao :lol:

[RevMARKSman]

You take the stuff you make (aka goods), and put it at a community distribution center. When you need something, you go get it.

If society doesn&#39;t like skateboarding, and there are no skateboards, have you ever considered MAKING SKATEBOARDS? :rolleyes:

[ummProfessional]

You take the stuff you make (aka goods), and put it at a community distribution center. When you need something, you go get it

lmao, and in this community center there will be no corruption, there will be nothing to make distribution equal or what not, heck ill go to a distribution center and grab as many of the things i want&#33;&#33; GUES WHAT&#33;? I AINT MODEST&#33;&#33;&#33;


If society doesn&#39;t like skateboarding, and there are no skateboards, have you ever considered MAKING SKATEBOARDS?

ahh yes because i know how to make a skateboard and the pieces to make it happen will be available to me PLUS IM LAZY I DON&#39;T FEEL LIKE MAKING ONE&#33;&#33; i prefer someone else making it for me and me paying them&#33;&#33; i take it if somehow dildos will be unavailable for woman as well, they will just have to "make" one up or just use cucumbers lmao :lol: get real&#33;&#33;

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 12:02 AM
You take the stuff you make (aka goods), and put it at a community distribution center. When you need something, you go get it.

If society doesn&#39;t like skateboarding, and there are no skateboards, have you ever considered MAKING SKATEBOARDS? :rolleyes:
ok and what if theres not enough? you do relieaze scarcity is the real problem here....

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 12:09 AM

You take the stuff you make (aka goods), and put it at a community distribution center. When you need something, you go get it

lmao, and in this community center there will be no corruption, there will be nothing to make distribution equal or what not, heck ill go to a distribution center and grab as many of the things i want&#33;&#33; GUES WHAT&#33;? I AINT MODEST&#33;&#33;&#33;
But why the hell would you want more than one fridge-freezer or some such object, when you can&#39;t sell it on (because others can simply go get one for themselves for free) ot anything like that?

I doubt that society will all of a sudden lose interest in skateboards or dildos.


ok and what if theres not enough? you do relieaze scarcity is the real problem here....

Then you simply make some more.

[theraven]

But why the hell would you want more than one fridge-freezer or some such object, when you can&#39;t sell it on (because others can simply go get one for themselves for free) ot anything like that?

I doubt that society will all of a sudden lose interest in skateboards or dildos.

because peole are greedy, i want more fridges to store more food



Then you simply make some more.

:o do you not understand basic foundations of economics? you do relieze there are LIMITS to how much you can produce right? you don&#39;t think these things magically appear do you?

[red team]

lmao, and in this community center there will be no corruption, there will be nothing to make distribution equal or what not, heck ill go to a distribution center and grab as many of the things i want&#33;&#33; GUES WHAT&#33;? I AINT MODEST&#33;&#33;&#33;


The problem with that is that since hoarding for price speculation is no longer a "right" after Capitalism falls then if you&#39;re not using an item for a specified period of time in which others can be shown to benefit more from them making use what you don&#39;t use or use very very infrequently an officer from the community center can go to where you hoard your cache and buy it back from you. Your labour/energy card will be credited with what was bought back so it&#39;s no loss to you, but you just won&#39;t have the cache of items just lying around gathering dust in a warehouse or storage locker somewhere when somebody else could make better use of it. Either that or you pay a storage fee to the person or group wanting to make use of it so they let you have the privilege of having useful items gather dust from disuse.

You satisfy your irrational ego of having "ownership" of lots of things you don&#39;t use or use very infrequently, but it will be very costly for you.

[theraven]

Originally posted by red [email protected] 27 2006, 01:15 AM

lmao, and in this community center there will be no corruption, there will be nothing to make distribution equal or what not, heck ill go to a distribution center and grab as many of the things i want&#33;&#33; GUES WHAT&#33;? I AINT MODEST&#33;&#33;&#33;


The problem with that is that since hoarding for price speculation is no longer a "right" after Capitalism falls then if you&#39;re not using an item for a specified period of time in which others can be shown to benefit more from them making use what you don&#39;t use or use very very infrequently an officer from the community center can go to where you hoard your cache and buy it back from you. Your labour/energy card will be credited with what was bought back so it&#39;s no loss to you, but you just won&#39;t have the cache of items just lying around gathering dust in a warehouse or storage locker somewhere when somebody else could make better use of it. Either that or you pay a storage fee to the person or group wanting to make use of it so they let you have the privilege of having useful items gather dust from disuse.

You satisfy your irrational ego of having "ownership" of lots of things you don&#39;t use or use very infrequently, but it will be very costly for you.
who is this communtiy officer? it sounds like he has a lot of power..i thought there was no on liek that in communism...

[red team]

Most likely he will be just another worker serving a term of duty for civil service like jury duty today. It&#39;s irrelevant that it is within his/her power to buy things back to the community center as every recorded transaction being stored in computerized records can be checked for validity as public information if corruption is suspected.

Furthermore, since anybody can go to anybody else including other community officers if one community officer is suspected of hoarding items that others need, permanently preserving the gains from corruption becomes futile.

[ummProfessional]

But why the hell would you want more than one fridge-freezer or some such object, when you can&#39;t sell it on (because others can simply go get one for themselves for free) ot anything like that?

I doubt that society will all of a sudden lose interest in skateboards or dildos.

ohh please don&#39;t insult my intelligence, fuck the fridge, IM AN ORANGE ADDICT&#33; i want to indulge myself with 4 baskets of oranges, surely that won&#39;t bring any conflicts right? ;)

who said anything about loosing interest? in the example i used i was INTERESTED IN SKATING, but your meaning to tell me skating is as popular and as used as cars or TVs? so since democratically society will choose the demands, obviously largely unpopular demands for skateboards and surfin just to throw in another, are going to be low hence no production of them...



Then you simply make some more.

OHH YES&#33;&#33; you better make a lot of freaking cars thats for sure, because im gonna collect all types of cars and as many as i can, because you know it&#39;s a "HOBBY" of mines ;)

redteam, "officer" and "buy" back? somehow i thought these were forbidden words in communism heaven&#33;? so how would these "officers" tell me i can&#39;t have 4 baskets of oranges? what if i say FUCK YOU i don&#39;t want to "sell" :rolleyes: it back to you, because i will eat them tomorrow&#33; or whenever i want&#33; and somehow there won&#39;t be favoritism , hypocresy and injustices from these "officers"? what if you are appointed as "officer" and you fucking hate me, magically your not going to be a dick against me huh&#33;? :rolleyes: ahh yes the power of communism will compell you into an utopian trance of not being an "evil" person...

[red team]

redteam, "officer" and "buy" back? somehow i thought these were forbidden words in communism heaven&#33;? so how would these "officers" tell me i can&#39;t have 4 baskets of oranges? what if i say FUCK YOU i don&#39;t want to "sell" rolleyes.gif it back to you, because i will eat them tomorrow&#33; or whenever i want&#33; and somehow there won&#39;t be favoritism , hypocresy and injustices from these "officers", what if you are appointed as "officer" and you fucking hate me, magically your not going to be a dick against me huh&#33;? rolleyes.gif ahh yes the power of communism will compell you into utopian trance of not being an "evil" person...

Emotions trump rational thought again...

Read carefully what I&#39;ve posted. It&#39;s irrelelvant if I&#39;m an "evil" person. If I as a public official go against the public interest by hoarding for my own selfish gratification at the expense of public need then my very public (as in anybody with an internet connection can see it) record of computer stored transactions will be visible to anybody who wants to complain to somebody honest who will penalize me for my misdeeds. Furthermore, nobody has an interest in hoarding because if it is done to the degree that it introduces artificial scarcity in that it affects another person&#39;s ability to secure material resources himself then buying it back is entirely justified by the public unless you are using it for utilitarian purposes. Again, this applies to public officials as well as anybody else in society.


so how would these "officers" tell me i can&#39;t have 4 baskets of oranges? what if i say FUCK YOU i don&#39;t want to "sell" :rolleyes: it back to you, because i will eat them tomorrow&#33;

There&#39;s only a physically possible amount any one person can consume of an item. For example, your example of four baskets of oranges cannot be physically consumed in one day. Depending on your physical body type and weight you can only consume so much food. Buffet restaurants penalizes you for wasting their food because you&#39;re costing them losses in food costs. We&#39;re no different, but we operate on the basis of you costing somebody else needed food instead of profit losses. In all statistical probability you will not be physically able to consume that food in the given amount of time you&#39;ve allotted to yourself. So buying it back some of it like 3 baskets so you&#39;ll be left with 1 basket (who knows maybe your on some weird orange only diet) and the rest goes to somebody else who needs to consume and in all statistical probability will be able to consume it in the time they allotted for themselves is justified. Also, public officials being public officials won&#39;t act unless called upon by the public. Police and firefighters just don&#39;t go around arresting people or spraying fire hoses unless called upon by public need.


OHH YES&#33;&#33; you better make a lot of freaking cars thats for sure, because im gonna collect all types of cars and as many as i can, because you know it&#39;s a "HOBBY" of mines ;)

I doubt there will be such vain creatures as car collectors existing after the revolution being that most people would develop a utilitarian consciousness needed for the revolution to succeed anyway. But, even if there were we&#39;ll buy back some cars if you buy an entire parking lot worth of them. If you&#39;re not using your cars for the utilitarian purpose of transportation then what are you doing with them. To satisfy your irrational ego of showing off how much stuff you have? As vanity for possessing a scarce status symbol? Well, if it cost somebody else needed transportation capacity we don&#39;t give a damn about your vanity or status symbols. You use what you possess for utilitarian purposes or you don&#39;t use them at all. You&#39;ll be left with what you can use. We&#39;ll buy the others back.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by red [email protected] 26 2006, 11:20 PM

redteam, "officer" and "buy" back? somehow i thought these were forbidden words in communism heaven&#33;? so how would these "officers" tell me i can&#39;t have 4 baskets of oranges? what if i say FUCK YOU i don&#39;t want to "sell" rolleyes.gif it back to you, because i will eat them tomorrow&#33; or whenever i want&#33; and somehow there won&#39;t be favoritism , hypocresy and injustices from these "officers", what if you are appointed as "officer" and you fucking hate me, magically your not going to be a dick against me huh&#33;? rolleyes.gif ahh yes the power of communism will compell you into utopian trance of not being an "evil" person...

Emotions trump rational thought again...

Read carefully what I&#39;ve posted. It&#39;s irrelelvant if I&#39;m an "evil" person. If I as a public official go against the public interest by hoarding for my own selfish gratification at the expense of public need then my very public (as in anybody with an internet connection can see it) record of computer stored transactions will be visible to anybody who wants to complain to somebody honest who will penalize me for my misdeeds. Furthermore, nobody has an interest in hoarding because if it is done to the degree that it introduces artificial scarcity in that it affects another person&#39;s ability to secure material resources himself then buying it back is entirely justified by the public unless you are using it for utilitarian purposes. Again, this applies to public officials as well as anybody else in society.


so how would these "officers" tell me i can&#39;t have 4 baskets of oranges? what if i say FUCK YOU i don&#39;t want to "sell" :rolleyes: it back to you, because i will eat them tomorrow&#33;

There&#39;s only a physically possible amount any one person can consume of an item. For example, your example of four baskets of oranges cannot be physically consumed in one day. Depending on your physical body type and weight you can only consume so much food. Buffet restaurants penalizes you for wasting their food because you&#39;re costing them losses in food costs. We&#39;re no different, but we operate on the basis of you costing somebody else needed food instead of profit losses. In all statistical probability you will not be physically able to consume that food in the given amount of time you&#39;ve allotted to yourself. So buying it back some of it like 3 baskets so you&#39;ll be left with 1 basket (who knows maybe your on some weird orange only diet) and the rest goes to somebody else who needs to consume and in all statistical probability will be able to consume it in the time they allotted for themselves is justified. Also, public officials being public officials won&#39;t act unless called upon by the public. Police and firefighters just don&#39;t go around arresting people or spraying fire hoses unless called upon by public need.


OHH YES&#33;&#33; you better make a lot of freaking cars thats for sure, because im gonna collect all types of cars and as many as i can, because you know it&#39;s a "HOBBY" of mines ;)

I doubt there will be such vain creatures as car collectors existing after the revolution being that most people would develop a utilitarian consciousness needed for the revolution to succeed anyway. But, even if there were we&#39;ll buy back some cars if you buy an entire parking lot worth of them. If you&#39;re not using your cars for the utilitarian purpose of transportation then what are you doing with them. To satisfy your irrational ego of showing off how much stuff you have? As vanity for possessing a scarce status symbol? Well, if it cost somebody else needed transportation capacity we don&#39;t give a damn about your vanity or status symbols. You use what you possess for utilitarian purposes or you don&#39;t use them at all. You&#39;ll be left with what you can use. We&#39;ll buy the others back.
Wha-wha-what? What&#39;s all this about "buying" and "money"? Different than I had envisioned communism...

[theraven]

Originally posted by MonicaTTmed+Jun 27 2006, 10:52 AM--> (MonicaTTmed @ Jun 27 2006, 10:52 AM)
red [email protected] 26 2006, 11:20 PM

redteam, "officer" and "buy" back? somehow i thought these were forbidden words in communism heaven&#33;? so how would these "officers" tell me i can&#39;t have 4 baskets of oranges? what if i say FUCK YOU i don&#39;t want to "sell" rolleyes.gif it back to you, because i will eat them tomorrow&#33; or whenever i want&#33; and somehow there won&#39;t be favoritism , hypocresy and injustices from these "officers", what if you are appointed as "officer" and you fucking hate me, magically your not going to be a dick against me huh&#33;? rolleyes.gif ahh yes the power of communism will compell you into utopian trance of not being an "evil" person...

Emotions trump rational thought again...

Read carefully what I&#39;ve posted. It&#39;s irrelelvant if I&#39;m an "evil" person. If I as a public official go against the public interest by hoarding for my own selfish gratification at the expense of public need then my very public (as in anybody with an internet connection can see it) record of computer stored transactions will be visible to anybody who wants to complain to somebody honest who will penalize me for my misdeeds. Furthermore, nobody has an interest in hoarding because if it is done to the degree that it introduces artificial scarcity in that it affects another person&#39;s ability to secure material resources himself then buying it back is entirely justified by the public unless you are using it for utilitarian purposes. Again, this applies to public officials as well as anybody else in society.


so how would these "officers" tell me i can&#39;t have 4 baskets of oranges? what if i say FUCK YOU i don&#39;t want to "sell" :rolleyes: it back to you, because i will eat them tomorrow&#33;

There&#39;s only a physically possible amount any one person can consume of an item. For example, your example of four baskets of oranges cannot be physically consumed in one day. Depending on your physical body type and weight you can only consume so much food. Buffet restaurants penalizes you for wasting their food because you&#39;re costing them losses in food costs. We&#39;re no different, but we operate on the basis of you costing somebody else needed food instead of profit losses. In all statistical probability you will not be physically able to consume that food in the given amount of time you&#39;ve allotted to yourself. So buying it back some of it like 3 baskets so you&#39;ll be left with 1 basket (who knows maybe your on some weird orange only diet) and the rest goes to somebody else who needs to consume and in all statistical probability will be able to consume it in the time they allotted for themselves is justified. Also, public officials being public officials won&#39;t act unless called upon by the public. Police and firefighters just don&#39;t go around arresting people or spraying fire hoses unless called upon by public need.


OHH YES&#33;&#33; you better make a lot of freaking cars thats for sure, because im gonna collect all types of cars and as many as i can, because you know it&#39;s a "HOBBY" of mines ;)

I doubt there will be such vain creatures as car collectors existing after the revolution being that most people would develop a utilitarian consciousness needed for the revolution to succeed anyway. But, even if there were we&#39;ll buy back some cars if you buy an entire parking lot worth of them. If you&#39;re not using your cars for the utilitarian purpose of transportation then what are you doing with them. To satisfy your irrational ego of showing off how much stuff you have? As vanity for possessing a scarce status symbol? Well, if it cost somebody else needed transportation capacity we don&#39;t give a damn about your vanity or status symbols. You use what you possess for utilitarian purposes or you don&#39;t use them at all. You&#39;ll be left with what you can use. We&#39;ll buy the others back.
Wha-wha-what? What&#39;s all this about "buying" and "money"? Different than I had envisioned communism... [/b]
how do you think we are going to trade monica? its not like theres unlimted resources.....

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by theraven+Jun 27 2006, 07:16 AM--> (theraven @ Jun 27 2006, 07:16 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 10:52 AM

red [email protected] 26 2006, 11:20 PM

redteam, "officer" and "buy" back? somehow i thought these were forbidden words in communism heaven&#33;? so how would these "officers" tell me i can&#39;t have 4 baskets of oranges? what if i say FUCK YOU i don&#39;t want to "sell" rolleyes.gif it back to you, because i will eat them tomorrow&#33; or whenever i want&#33; and somehow there won&#39;t be favoritism , hypocresy and injustices from these "officers", what if you are appointed as "officer" and you fucking hate me, magically your not going to be a dick against me huh&#33;? rolleyes.gif ahh yes the power of communism will compell you into utopian trance of not being an "evil" person...

Emotions trump rational thought again...

Read carefully what I&#39;ve posted. It&#39;s irrelelvant if I&#39;m an "evil" person. If I as a public official go against the public interest by hoarding for my own selfish gratification at the expense of public need then my very public (as in anybody with an internet connection can see it) record of computer stored transactions will be visible to anybody who wants to complain to somebody honest who will penalize me for my misdeeds. Furthermore, nobody has an interest in hoarding because if it is done to the degree that it introduces artificial scarcity in that it affects another person&#39;s ability to secure material resources himself then buying it back is entirely justified by the public unless you are using it for utilitarian purposes. Again, this applies to public officials as well as anybody else in society.


so how would these "officers" tell me i can&#39;t have 4 baskets of oranges? what if i say FUCK YOU i don&#39;t want to "sell" :rolleyes: it back to you, because i will eat them tomorrow&#33;

There&#39;s only a physically possible amount any one person can consume of an item. For example, your example of four baskets of oranges cannot be physically consumed in one day. Depending on your physical body type and weight you can only consume so much food. Buffet restaurants penalizes you for wasting their food because you&#39;re costing them losses in food costs. We&#39;re no different, but we operate on the basis of you costing somebody else needed food instead of profit losses. In all statistical probability you will not be physically able to consume that food in the given amount of time you&#39;ve allotted to yourself. So buying it back some of it like 3 baskets so you&#39;ll be left with 1 basket (who knows maybe your on some weird orange only diet) and the rest goes to somebody else who needs to consume and in all statistical probability will be able to consume it in the time they allotted for themselves is justified. Also, public officials being public officials won&#39;t act unless called upon by the public. Police and firefighters just don&#39;t go around arresting people or spraying fire hoses unless called upon by public need.


OHH YES&#33;&#33; you better make a lot of freaking cars thats for sure, because im gonna collect all types of cars and as many as i can, because you know it&#39;s a "HOBBY" of mines ;)

I doubt there will be such vain creatures as car collectors existing after the revolution being that most people would develop a utilitarian consciousness needed for the revolution to succeed anyway. But, even if there were we&#39;ll buy back some cars if you buy an entire parking lot worth of them. If you&#39;re not using your cars for the utilitarian purpose of transportation then what are you doing with them. To satisfy your irrational ego of showing off how much stuff you have? As vanity for possessing a scarce status symbol? Well, if it cost somebody else needed transportation capacity we don&#39;t give a damn about your vanity or status symbols. You use what you possess for utilitarian purposes or you don&#39;t use them at all. You&#39;ll be left with what you can use. We&#39;ll buy the others back.
Wha-wha-what? What&#39;s all this about "buying" and "money"? Different than I had envisioned communism...
how do you think we are going to trade monica? its not like theres unlimted resources..... [/b]
If there&#39;s enough stuff, you don&#39;t NEED to trade. That&#39;s the whole point.

[theraven]

Originally posted by MonicaTTmed+Jun 27 2006, 12:18 PM--> (MonicaTTmed @ Jun 27 2006, 12:18 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 10:52 AM

red [email protected] 26 2006, 11:20 PM

redteam, "officer" and "buy" back? somehow i thought these were forbidden words in communism heaven&#33;? so how would these "officers" tell me i can&#39;t have 4 baskets of oranges? what if i say FUCK YOU i don&#39;t want to "sell" rolleyes.gif it back to you, because i will eat them tomorrow&#33; or whenever i want&#33; and somehow there won&#39;t be favoritism , hypocresy and injustices from these "officers", what if you are appointed as "officer" and you fucking hate me, magically your not going to be a dick against me huh&#33;? rolleyes.gif ahh yes the power of communism will compell you into utopian trance of not being an "evil" person...

Emotions trump rational thought again...

Read carefully what I&#39;ve posted. It&#39;s irrelelvant if I&#39;m an "evil" person. If I as a public official go against the public interest by hoarding for my own selfish gratification at the expense of public need then my very public (as in anybody with an internet connection can see it) record of computer stored transactions will be visible to anybody who wants to complain to somebody honest who will penalize me for my misdeeds. Furthermore, nobody has an interest in hoarding because if it is done to the degree that it introduces artificial scarcity in that it affects another person&#39;s ability to secure material resources himself then buying it back is entirely justified by the public unless you are using it for utilitarian purposes. Again, this applies to public officials as well as anybody else in society.


so how would these "officers" tell me i can&#39;t have 4 baskets of oranges? what if i say FUCK YOU i don&#39;t want to "sell" :rolleyes: it back to you, because i will eat them tomorrow&#33;

There&#39;s only a physically possible amount any one person can consume of an item. For example, your example of four baskets of oranges cannot be physically consumed in one day. Depending on your physical body type and weight you can only consume so much food. Buffet restaurants penalizes you for wasting their food because you&#39;re costing them losses in food costs. We&#39;re no different, but we operate on the basis of you costing somebody else needed food instead of profit losses. In all statistical probability you will not be physically able to consume that food in the given amount of time you&#39;ve allotted to yourself. So buying it back some of it like 3 baskets so you&#39;ll be left with 1 basket (who knows maybe your on some weird orange only diet) and the rest goes to somebody else who needs to consume and in all statistical probability will be able to consume it in the time they allotted for themselves is justified. Also, public officials being public officials won&#39;t act unless called upon by the public. Police and firefighters just don&#39;t go around arresting people or spraying fire hoses unless called upon by public need.


OHH YES&#33;&#33; you better make a lot of freaking cars thats for sure, because im gonna collect all types of cars and as many as i can, because you know it&#39;s a "HOBBY" of mines ;)

I doubt there will be such vain creatures as car collectors existing after the revolution being that most people would develop a utilitarian consciousness needed for the revolution to succeed anyway. But, even if there were we&#39;ll buy back some cars if you buy an entire parking lot worth of them. If you&#39;re not using your cars for the utilitarian purpose of transportation then what are you doing with them. To satisfy your irrational ego of showing off how much stuff you have? As vanity for possessing a scarce status symbol? Well, if it cost somebody else needed transportation capacity we don&#39;t give a damn about your vanity or status symbols. You use what you possess for utilitarian purposes or you don&#39;t use them at all. You&#39;ll be left with what you can use. We&#39;ll buy the others back.
Wha-wha-what? What&#39;s all this about "buying" and "money"? Different than I had envisioned communism...
how do you think we are going to trade monica? its not like theres unlimted resources.....
If there&#39;s enough stuff, you don&#39;t NEED to trade. That&#39;s the whole point. [/b]
but thats the problem there ISN"T enough to go around. this is the very basis of capitislim. if we had enough we wouldn&#39;t need to trade, however we don&#39;t, so we do need to trade.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 09:34 AM
but thats the problem there ISN"T enough to go around. this is the very basis of capitislim. if we had enough we wouldn&#39;t need to trade, however we don&#39;t, so we do need to trade.
When you stop restricting supply of products to increase the demand:supply ratio, and stop making goods to be SOLD instead of USED, when you stop using hierarchical structures, when you stop using money, when you stop exploiting the Third World--in a nutshell, when you end capitalism and implement communism--there will be enough resources to go around.

[theraven]

Originally posted by MonicaTTmed+Jun 27 2006, 03:27 PM--> (MonicaTTmed @ Jun 27 2006, 03:27 PM)
[email protected] 27 2006, 09:34 AM
but thats the problem there ISN"T enough to go around. this is the very basis of capitislim. if we had enough we wouldn&#39;t need to trade, however we don&#39;t, so we do need to trade.
When you stop restricting supply of products to increase the demand:supply ratio, and stop making goods to be SOLD instead of USED, when you stop using hierarchical structures, when you stop using money, when you stop exploiting the Third World--in a nutshell, when you end capitalism and implement communism--there will be enough resources to go around. [/b]
based on what? the basis of capitlims is that of providing the best/most service/product at the lowest profitbel price, which is slightly above the actual price of the object. very few things are decreased in supply purposely to raise prices, and those that are usually are luxury items which i doubt would exist in communism. basic nesscities like food, water, and shelter are about as cheap as they can get now.

PS we get alot of this stuff through trade, it snto all made here....

[red team]

basic nesscities like food, water, and shelter are about as cheap as they can get now.

cheap according to what measuring stick? Does the measuring stick have standard units like a ruler so that what&#39;s measured to be x number of units in one place is measured to be x number of units everywhere? Or is it like many twigs of various lengths that can be manipulated, bartered or swindled to "measure" to the advantage of someone owning that measuring stick?

cheap doesn&#39;t seem to really have much of an objective definition in the absence of a quantifiable unit of measure for "wealth".

[theraven]

cheap according to what measuring stick? Does the measuring stick have standard units like a ruler so that what&#39;s measured to be x number of units in one place is measured to be x number of units everywhere? Or is it like many twigs of various lengths that can be manipulated, bartered or swindled to "measure" to the advantage of someone owning that measuring stick?

cheap meaning that it can be afforded by even the lowest classes without great hardship. quite simply even if things liek food stamps and farm subdies were removied, our food prices would be even lower. the places afflicted by famine and water problems are mostly the fault of poor governance, not that of lack of resouces.


cheap doesn&#39;t seem to really have much of an objective definition in the absence of a quantifiable unit of measure for "wealth".

well we have that, its called dollars.

[imperialist]

When you stop restricting supply of products to increase the demand:supply ratio, and stop making goods to be SOLD instead of USED, when you stop using hierarchical structures, when you stop using money, when you stop exploiting the Third World--in a nutshell, when you end capitalism and implement communism--there will be enough resources to go around.

OMG. How can anyone be so naive? Don&#39;t you understand the third world needs to be &#39;exploited&#39;. It needs to go through industrialisation so that it can become the first world. Look at Malaysia, once a third world country with cheap labor. Now a first world nation thanks to the fact they were &#39;exploited&#39;. Do you people think, as in think.... with your heads? And you think the cessation of money will make people &#39;rich&#39;? :rolleyes: :lol: You are indeed naive. Naive or stupid. Well, lets just say the communist governments tried sharing with each other in the comintern, and, well, once the USSR collapsed, North Korea and Cuba went to hell, so where does your system go?&#33; You must think there are unlimited resources. God yuo people are amazing. And you think people can stop using HIERARCHIAL STRUCTURES? Well, whats this, I seem to be a restricted member on a DEMOCRATIC forum&#33; Well, isn&#39;t that just something. I&#39;m sure there&#39;s no e-Hierarchy here with moderators and admins. OH no&#33;

But what&#39;s your solution? AH yes, here&#39;s the true genius coming out, WE STOP MAKING GOODS TO BE SOLD, ah yes, AND STArT MAKING THEM TO BE USED. Well, hallalujah, break open the champaigne, I think we have the answer to everything in economics&#33; And how will this nonsnece function? hmmmm, stop making goods to be sold, only to be used. hmmmmm, I see, we only produce the bare necessities rather than the flusey gimmicks. Excellent, and who will enforce this bullshit? Will it be enforced democratically? Everyone will suddenly state :"I say, we need goods to be USED not SOLD&#33;" "Oh yes I agree...forever&#33;""I will never again have any material desires, just give the toilet paper and one apple. EXCELLNENT&#33; :blink:

[red team]

But what&#39;s your solution? AH yes, here&#39;s the true genius coming out, WE STOP MAKING GOODS TO BE SOLD, ah yes, AND STArT MAKING THEM TO BE USED. Well, hallalujah, break open the champaigne, I think we have the answer to everything in economics&#33; And how will this nonsnece function? hmmmm, stop making goods to be sold, only to be used. hmmmmm, I see, we only produce the bare necessities rather than the flusey gimmicks. Excellent, and who will enforce this bullshit? Will it be enforced democratically? Everyone will suddenly state :"I say, we need goods to be USED not SOLD&#33;" "Oh yes I agree...forever&#33;""I will never again have any material desires, just give the toilet paper and one apple. EXCELLNENT&#33;

Great, maybe we should stick to having things made to be sold and sold and sold... as when there&#39;s planned obsolescence built into the product so it breaks down at surprisingly predictable intervals and you have to buy a new one regularly.

Or how&#39;s this for things made to be sold. Every year come out with a new model with everything the same functionally, but with slight cosmetic changes. Instead of a square chassis we&#39;ll have a round chassis. Don&#39;t want to have our customers think that we&#39;re not "innovative" do we?