Who Hates Unions?

[R_P_A_S]

I was just wondering. today in class 2 guys were talking about a couple particular Unions. and they were just saying how "they get fucked by them" this one guy I guess is a store owner and he was complaining to the other one that.."Unions take away my power to make prompt desicions for my business and for whats best. I can't fire anyone on the spot. I have to go through their bullshit process, bla bla bla"

so who hates Unions?

[R_P_A_S]

I was just wondering. today in class 2 guys were talking about a couple particular Unions. and they were just saying how "they get fucked by them" this one guy I guess is a store owner and he was complaining to the other one that.."Unions take away my power to make prompt desicions for my business and for whats best. I can't fire anyone on the spot. I have to go through their bullshit process, bla bla bla"

so who hates Unions?

[R_P_A_S]

I was just wondering. today in class 2 guys were talking about a couple particular Unions. and they were just saying how "they get fucked by them" this one guy I guess is a store owner and he was complaining to the other one that.."Unions take away my power to make prompt desicions for my business and for whats best. I can't fire anyone on the spot. I have to go through their bullshit process, bla bla bla"

so who hates Unions?

[RedAnarchist]

Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.

[RedAnarchist]

Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.

[RedAnarchist]

Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 11:05 PM
Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 11:05 PM
Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 11:05 PM
Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol

[Edelweiss]

Is this some kind of joke?

[Edelweiss]

Is this some kind of joke?

[Edelweiss]

Is this some kind of joke?

[Aurora]

It is natural for a business owner to hate unions.They stop him from exercising complete power over his workers. eg firing people on the spot for no reason

[Aurora]

It is natural for a business owner to hate unions.They stop him from exercising complete power over his workers. eg firing people on the spot for no reason

[Aurora]

It is natural for a business owner to hate unions.They stop him from exercising complete power over his workers. eg firing people on the spot for no reason

[Dyst]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 05:16 AM
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol
Why would anyone care about his business and his profits? What the fuck does it give mankind, other than tedious jobs and some money for poor people who hates it but has to do it in order to survive?

[Dyst]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 05:16 AM
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol
Why would anyone care about his business and his profits? What the fuck does it give mankind, other than tedious jobs and some money for poor people who hates it but has to do it in order to survive?

[Dyst]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 05:16 AM
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol
Why would anyone care about his business and his profits? What the fuck does it give mankind, other than tedious jobs and some money for poor people who hates it but has to do it in order to survive?

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Dyst+Jun 23 2006, 11:29 PM--> (Dyst @ Jun 23 2006, 11:29 PM)
[email protected] 24 2006, 05:16 AM
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol
Why would anyone care about his business and his profits? What the fuck does it give mankind, other than tedious jobs and some money for poor people who hates it but has to do it in order to survive? [/b]
ok. but what is he to do. not that i have compassion for him. but i go and tell him that. he will look at me like an alien. thats what he does. he owns a business. so what does he do instead of that? i dont know. now i make no damn sense!

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Dyst+Jun 23 2006, 11:29 PM--> (Dyst @ Jun 23 2006, 11:29 PM)
[email protected] 24 2006, 05:16 AM
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol
Why would anyone care about his business and his profits? What the fuck does it give mankind, other than tedious jobs and some money for poor people who hates it but has to do it in order to survive? [/b]
ok. but what is he to do. not that i have compassion for him. but i go and tell him that. he will look at me like an alien. thats what he does. he owns a business. so what does he do instead of that? i dont know. now i make no damn sense!

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Dyst+Jun 23 2006, 11:29 PM--> (Dyst @ Jun 23 2006, 11:29 PM)
[email protected] 24 2006, 05:16 AM
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol
Why would anyone care about his business and his profits? What the fuck does it give mankind, other than tedious jobs and some money for poor people who hates it but has to do it in order to survive? [/b]
ok. but what is he to do. not that i have compassion for him. but i go and tell him that. he will look at me like an alien. thats what he does. he owns a business. so what does he do instead of that? i dont know. now i make no damn sense!

[chimx]

i hate bureaucracy, so it follows that...

[chimx]

i hate bureaucracy, so it follows that...

[chimx]

i hate bureaucracy, so it follows that...

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by R_P_A_S+Jun 23 2006, 06:37 PM--> (R_P_A_S @ Jun 23 2006, 06:37 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 11:29 PM

[email protected] 24 2006, 05:16 AM
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol
Why would anyone care about his business and his profits? What the fuck does it give mankind, other than tedious jobs and some money for poor people who hates it but has to do it in order to survive?
ok. but what is he to do. not that i have compassion for him. but i go and tell him that. he will look at me like an alien. thats what he does. he owns a business. so what does he do instead of that? i dont know. now i make no damn sense! [/b]
Don't try to appease your personal ideology to business owners
they inherently disagree with our cause, man

if anything, just convince him that his economic role in society puts him at odds with the working class and democracy.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by R_P_A_S+Jun 23 2006, 06:37 PM--> (R_P_A_S @ Jun 23 2006, 06:37 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 11:29 PM

[email protected] 24 2006, 05:16 AM
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol
Why would anyone care about his business and his profits? What the fuck does it give mankind, other than tedious jobs and some money for poor people who hates it but has to do it in order to survive?
ok. but what is he to do. not that i have compassion for him. but i go and tell him that. he will look at me like an alien. thats what he does. he owns a business. so what does he do instead of that? i dont know. now i make no damn sense! [/b]
Don't try to appease your personal ideology to business owners
they inherently disagree with our cause, man

if anything, just convince him that his economic role in society puts him at odds with the working class and democracy.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by R_P_A_S+Jun 23 2006, 06:37 PM--> (R_P_A_S @ Jun 23 2006, 06:37 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 11:29 PM

[email protected] 24 2006, 05:16 AM
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol
Why would anyone care about his business and his profits? What the fuck does it give mankind, other than tedious jobs and some money for poor people who hates it but has to do it in order to survive?
ok. but what is he to do. not that i have compassion for him. but i go and tell him that. he will look at me like an alien. thats what he does. he owns a business. so what does he do instead of that? i dont know. now i make no damn sense! [/b]
Don't try to appease your personal ideology to business owners
they inherently disagree with our cause, man

if anything, just convince him that his economic role in society puts him at odds with the working class and democracy.

[Cult of Reason]

Depends on the union. I do not much like the bureauratic unions, whose only function it seems is to screw the workers from behind their back, however, I have a favourable view towards (Anarcho-)Syndicalist unions such as the CNT and the IWW, despite the fact I know very little about them, as yet.

[Cult of Reason]

Depends on the union. I do not much like the bureauratic unions, whose only function it seems is to screw the workers from behind their back, however, I have a favourable view towards (Anarcho-)Syndicalist unions such as the CNT and the IWW, despite the fact I know very little about them, as yet.

[Cult of Reason]

Depends on the union. I do not much like the bureauratic unions, whose only function it seems is to screw the workers from behind their back, however, I have a favourable view towards (Anarcho-)Syndicalist unions such as the CNT and the IWW, despite the fact I know very little about them, as yet.

[FinnMacCool]

The wobblies are an awesome union, in my opinion. A lot of people don't like them because they aren't so affective but I disagree. And there is a lot of interesting things that come out of wobbly culture too.

[FinnMacCool]

The wobblies are an awesome union, in my opinion. A lot of people don't like them because they aren't so affective but I disagree. And there is a lot of interesting things that come out of wobbly culture too.

[FinnMacCool]

The wobblies are an awesome union, in my opinion. A lot of people don't like them because they aren't so affective but I disagree. And there is a lot of interesting things that come out of wobbly culture too.

[MKS]

American Unions have grown into their own oppressive force acting not for the worker but for the Union leadership and its growth. Take for example the teamsters, one of the first great unions in America, which now is rampant with Organized Crime corruption and is a pawn of corporate-political special intrests groups.
American Labour Unions are a farce. Much like everything else in America.

[MKS]

American Unions have grown into their own oppressive force acting not for the worker but for the Union leadership and its growth. Take for example the teamsters, one of the first great unions in America, which now is rampant with Organized Crime corruption and is a pawn of corporate-political special intrests groups.
American Labour Unions are a farce. Much like everything else in America.

[MKS]

American Unions have grown into their own oppressive force acting not for the worker but for the Union leadership and its growth. Take for example the teamsters, one of the first great unions in America, which now is rampant with Organized Crime corruption and is a pawn of corporate-political special intrests groups.
American Labour Unions are a farce. Much like everything else in America.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 11:05 PM
Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.
Gotta say though, there are some very Nationalist (as in the US kind) unions out there.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 11:05 PM
Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.
Gotta say though, there are some very Nationalist (as in the US kind) unions out there.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 11:05 PM
Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.
Gotta say though, there are some very Nationalist (as in the US kind) unions out there.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by R_P_A_S+Jun 23 2006, 11:16 PM--> (R_P_A_S @ Jun 23 2006, 11:16 PM)
[email protected] 23 2006, 11:05 PM
Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol [/b]
You tell him that being against worker's unions is totalitarian. Worker's unions are a simple collective of workers who don't want to be paid minimum wage for long hours in poor conditions. You have a nice office, earn a nice living, and all they want the same type of treatment.

Also you could point out what life was like when unions had absolutly no power from the late 1800's to Teddy Roosevelt. Workers would get paid nothing yet ran the risk of getting their fingers choped off in textile factories and the like. Also look at the triangle fires of 1911 and how hundreds of woman died because their boss locked them in their factory when a fire had erupted. Does this boss suggest we go back to those times?

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by R_P_A_S+Jun 23 2006, 11:16 PM--> (R_P_A_S @ Jun 23 2006, 11:16 PM)
[email protected] 23 2006, 11:05 PM
Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol [/b]
You tell him that being against worker's unions is totalitarian. Worker's unions are a simple collective of workers who don't want to be paid minimum wage for long hours in poor conditions. You have a nice office, earn a nice living, and all they want the same type of treatment.

Also you could point out what life was like when unions had absolutly no power from the late 1800's to Teddy Roosevelt. Workers would get paid nothing yet ran the risk of getting their fingers choped off in textile factories and the like. Also look at the triangle fires of 1911 and how hundreds of woman died because their boss locked them in their factory when a fire had erupted. Does this boss suggest we go back to those times?

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by R_P_A_S+Jun 23 2006, 11:16 PM--> (R_P_A_S @ Jun 23 2006, 11:16 PM)
[email protected] 23 2006, 11:05 PM
Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.
ok so what do i say to a business owner that is worried about "his business and his profits" something that make sence and smart. not just . fuck you lol [/b]
You tell him that being against worker's unions is totalitarian. Worker's unions are a simple collective of workers who don't want to be paid minimum wage for long hours in poor conditions. You have a nice office, earn a nice living, and all they want the same type of treatment.

Also you could point out what life was like when unions had absolutly no power from the late 1800's to Teddy Roosevelt. Workers would get paid nothing yet ran the risk of getting their fingers choped off in textile factories and the like. Also look at the triangle fires of 1911 and how hundreds of woman died because their boss locked them in their factory when a fire had erupted. Does this boss suggest we go back to those times?

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by CCCPneubauten+Jun 24 2006, 02:14 AM--> (CCCPneubauten @ Jun 24 2006, 02:14 AM)
[email protected] 23 2006, 11:05 PM
Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.
Gotta say though, there are some very Nationalist (as in the US kind) unions out there. [/b]
I'm sure they're plenty. They don't want their jobs being outsourced to China and Taiwan.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by CCCPneubauten+Jun 24 2006, 02:14 AM--> (CCCPneubauten @ Jun 24 2006, 02:14 AM)
ThisAnarchistKills[email protected] 23 2006, 11:05 PM
Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.
Gotta say though, there are some very Nationalist (as in the US kind) unions out there. [/b]
I'm sure they're plenty. They don't want their jobs being outsourced to China and Taiwan.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by CCCPneubauten+Jun 24 2006, 02:14 AM--> (CCCPneubauten @ Jun 24 2006, 02:14 AM)
[email protected] 23 2006, 11:05 PM
Noone on the Left would hate unions. They have fought for worker's rights for the best part of 200 years now. Yes, they are not a revolutionary force, but they can be a great tool of the workers in a capitalist society.
Gotta say though, there are some very Nationalist (as in the US kind) unions out there. [/b]
I'm sure they're plenty. They don't want their jobs being outsourced to China and Taiwan.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Some ultra leftists dont like unions when it comes to revolutionary situations/organizing. They think that it can't perform a revolutionary role and are more in favor of a workers councils and that type of organization. I can agree with that to some degree.

But as others have said, why are you trying to convince a class enemy to your position? Don't make small talk with your boss, he's not your friend.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Some ultra leftists dont like unions when it comes to revolutionary situations/organizing. They think that it can't perform a revolutionary role and are more in favor of a workers councils and that type of organization. I can agree with that to some degree.

But as others have said, why are you trying to convince a class enemy to your position? Don't make small talk with your boss, he's not your friend.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Some ultra leftists dont like unions when it comes to revolutionary situations/organizing. They think that it can't perform a revolutionary role and are more in favor of a workers councils and that type of organization. I can agree with that to some degree.

But as others have said, why are you trying to convince a class enemy to your position? Don't make small talk with your boss, he's not your friend.

[KC]

Don't make small talk with your boss, he's not your friend.

There's no reason you can't be friends with your class enemy.

[saint max]

I'd probably join a union. It would be nice to have healthcare or a tad more wages, but that's exactly why unions, as an institution, have very little to offer revolt. One can look at the role trade unions played in quelling the Luddite insurrection the Paris Uprising in '68 and more recently the french student/worker revolt. One might even suggest a certain role unions played in argentina's economic collapse and aftermath or even The role the IWW inderectly played. One big union, as one big model for revolt, means if that methodology is assumed to be defeated (i.e. World War 2), then what do anarchist and communist syndicalists have at there disposal?

I think as a whole Unions play a problematic role for revolt. Luckily (or not) those of us living in post-industrial society, have little in the way of militant trade unions, but quite a bit of angry workers perhaps just awaiting a service class example of an alternative to a union for organization.

kisses,
-max

[Forward Union]

Well my position on unions


Originally posted by Anarchist Federation Aims and Principals #7

Unions by their very nature cannot become vehicles for the revolutionary transformation of society. They have to be accepted by capitalism in order to function and so cannot play a part in its overthrow. Trades unions divide the working class (between employed and unemployed, trade and craft, skilled and unskilled, etc). Even syndicalist unions are constrained by the fundamental nature of unionism. The union has to be able to control its membership in order to make deals with management. Their aim, through negotiation, is to achieve a fairer form of exploitation of the workforce. The interests of leaders and representatives will always be different from ours. The boss class is our enemy, and while we must fight for better conditions from it, we have to realise that reforms we may achieve today may be taken away tomorrow. Our ultimate aim must be the complete abolition of wage slavery. Working within the unions can never achieve this. However, we do not argue for people to leave unions until they are made irrelevant by the revolutionary event. The union is a common point of departure for many workers. Rank and file initiatives may strengthen us in the battle for anarchist communism. What's important is that we organise ourselves collectively, arguing for workers to control struggles themselves.

[Hiero]

The guy doesn't like unions because he can not achieve what is i natural for him to do, use the worker like a machine. There is no need to explain to him why unions are good for the worker, rather spend you time explaining to workers why they should be in a union.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 09:39 AM
The guy doesn't like unions because he can not achieve what is i natural for him to do, use the worker like a machine. There is no need to explain to him why unions are good for the worker, rather spend you time explaining to workers why they should be in a union.
were you talking about me???

[Maynard]

I think Hiero was talking about the original post. But listen to Red Zeppelin, he speaks the truth. No business owner is caring and compassionate to his or hers workers, so why on earth should we be compassionate to them? Unions can and do harm profits and productivity, which isn't a bad thing, at least from our perspective. Business owners will despise anything that gets in the way of profit, because that is the reason for the existence of the business in the first place, to make a profit.

That is not to say Unions are inherently good, some are horrible but some, like the IWW are fantastic. I think there it is much more likely to convince a worker that they are being oppressed, than to convince a business owner that they are oppressing anyone.

[Herman]

There's no reason you can't be friends with your class enemy.

There is a reason for you to shoot your class enemies.

[Sabocat]

Speaking as a two card union member (Carpenters Union & IWW), I can tell you that no owner will speak positively about the union. If you read the IWW Preamble, you can clearly see why:


The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life.

Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth.

We find that the centering of the management of industries into fewer and fewer hands makes the trade unions unable to cope with the ever growing power of the employing class. The trade unions foster a state of affairs which allows one set of workers to be pitted against another set of workers in the same industry, thereby helping defeat one another in wage wars. Moreover, the trade unions aid the employing class to mislead the workers into the belief that the working class have interests in common with their employers.

These conditions can be changed and the interest of the working class upheld only by an organization formed in such a way that all its members in any one industry, or in all industries if necessary, cease work whenever a strike or lockout is on in any department thereof, thus making an injury to one an injury to all.

Instead of the conservative motto, "A fair day's wage for a fair day's work," we must inscribe on our banner the revolutionary watchword, "Abolition of the wage system."

It is the historic mission of the working class to do away with capitalism. The army of production must be organized, not only for everyday struggle with capitalists, but also to carry on production when capitalism shall have been overthrown. By organizing industrially we are forming the structure of the new society within the shell of the old.

If the owner had his way, the workers would be paid starvation wages, work 16 hour days 7 days a week.

You can say what you want about union bureaucracy, and I would whole heartedly agree, however you also cannot ignore that the current union structures have brought better pay to laborers and the trades.

It is also my belief that it is better to have workers unionized in some way than not at all. At least the structure for worker organization is there, even if it will need to be revamped in order to move forward. Unions still represent some pretty decent levels of class consciousness (not with their bourgeois leaders of course, but with the rank and file) even though lately they are consumed with blind nationalism.

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 01:26 PM

There's no reason you can't be friends with your class enemy.

There is a reason for you to shoot your class enemies.
i do not think it is a good idea to shoot all the bourgeosie. shooting your class enemies should only be done if it is necessary.

except maybe when that class enemy is a huge scumbag

[An archist]

Originally posted by Additives Free+Jun 24 2006, 09:23 AM--> (Additives Free @ Jun 24 2006, 09:23 AM) Well my position on unions


Anarchist Federation Aims and Principals #7

Unions by their very nature cannot become vehicles for the revolutionary transformation of society. They have to be accepted by capitalism in order to function and so cannot play a part in its overthrow. Trades unions divide the working class (between employed and unemployed, trade and craft, skilled and unskilled, etc). Even syndicalist unions are constrained by the fundamental nature of unionism. The union has to be able to control its membership in order to make deals with management. Their aim, through negotiation, is to achieve a fairer form of exploitation of the workforce. The interests of leaders and representatives will always be different from ours. The boss class is our enemy, and while we must fight for better conditions from it, we have to realise that reforms we may achieve today may be taken away tomorrow. Our ultimate aim must be the complete abolition of wage slavery. Working within the unions can never achieve this. However, we do not argue for people to leave unions until they are made irrelevant by the revolutionary event. The union is a common point of departure for many workers. Rank and file initiatives may strengthen us in the battle for anarchist communism. What's important is that we organise ourselves collectively, arguing for workers to control struggles themselves. [/b]
How about the Spanish civil war?

[violencia.Proletariat]

There's no reason you can't be friends with your class enemy.

Why would you want to be? Petty bourgeois, maybe. But how can you even relate to big time business owners? Maybe this is a personal thing but I don't want to get friendly with someone who exploits my labor.

[Comrade-Z]

Why would you want to be? Petty bourgeois, maybe. But how can you even relate to big time business owners? Maybe this is a personal thing but I don't want to get friendly with someone who exploits my labor.

Yeah, it would be rather like wanting to be friends with a school bully who gives you a knuckle sandwich and steals your lunch money every day. :wacko:

[Orange Juche]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 07:05 PM
Noone on the Left would hate unions.
Why not? Alot of them are highly reactionary.

I'm not against unionism. I'm against the reactionary bullshit.

[Eastside Revolt]

I don't hate unions per say.

I applaud anyone who takes an interest in bettering the living conditions of them and their co-workers. The problem to me is that many unions and especially their leadership are interested instead in careerism.

Unions are not my fight...... ....at least in Canada. <_<

[bezdomni]

There are some unions that have done fucked up things, but the concept of the union should be entirely defended by the left. Without organization of the working class against the bourgeoisie, class consciousness is impossible.

I wish I had a union, but I work for a company that has a philosophy very similar to Disney&#39;s. Any attempt to organize is met by a little pink slip saying you are incompetent or something.

[C_Rasmussen]

Why the fuck would you hate unions? They&#39;re there to help you the worker. I will say having to pay to get into unions is the thing I hate though.

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 07:12 PM
Why the fuck would you hate unions? They&#39;re there to help you the worker. I will say having to pay to get into unions is the thing I hate though.
because unions are

a) corrupt

b) greedy-taking to much.
want an example of to much unions? detriot.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by theraven+Jun 27 2006, 01:36 PM--> (theraven @ Jun 27 2006, 01:36 PM)
[email protected] 27 2006, 07:12 PM
Why the fuck would you hate unions? They&#39;re there to help you the worker. I will say having to pay to get into unions is the thing I hate though.
because unions are

a) corrupt

b) greedy-taking to much.
want an example of to much unions? detriot. [/b]
Sooooo let me get this right, you wouldn&#39;t want your rights as a worker defended?

[theraven]

Originally posted by C_Rasmussen+Jun 27 2006, 07:44 PM--> (C_Rasmussen @ Jun 27 2006, 07:44 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 01:36 PM

[email protected] 27 2006, 07:12 PM
Why the fuck would you hate unions? They&#39;re there to help you the worker. I will say having to pay to get into unions is the thing I hate though.
because unions are

a) corrupt

b) greedy-taking to much.
want an example of to much unions? detriot.
Sooooo let me get this right, you wouldn&#39;t want your rights as a worker defended? [/b]
what exactly are my rights?

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by theraven+Jun 27 2006, 02:09 PM--> (theraven @ Jun 27 2006, 02:09 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 01:36 PM

[email protected] 27 2006, 07:12 PM
Why the fuck would you hate unions? They&#39;re there to help you the worker. I will say having to pay to get into unions is the thing I hate though.
because unions are

a) corrupt

b) greedy-taking to much.
want an example of to much unions? detriot.
Sooooo let me get this right, you wouldn&#39;t want your rights as a worker defended?
what exactly are my rights? [/b]
I don&#39;t know ALL of the rights workers have but these are the ones I know of (or so I think they are): The right to be treated fairly by your employer, given at least minium wage, given breaks when you&#39;re supposed to be given your breaks, and so on and so forth.

[theraven]

Originally posted by C_Rasmussen+Jun 27 2006, 08:47 PM--> (C_Rasmussen @ Jun 27 2006, 08:47 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 01:36 PM

[email protected] 27 2006, 07:12 PM
Why the fuck would you hate unions? They&#39;re there to help you the worker. I will say having to pay to get into unions is the thing I hate though.
because unions are

a) corrupt

b) greedy-taking to much.
want an example of to much unions? detriot.
Sooooo let me get this right, you wouldn&#39;t want your rights as a worker defended?
what exactly are my rights?
I don&#39;t know ALL of the rights workers have but these are the ones I know of (or so I think they are): The right to be treated fairly by your employer, given at least minium wage, given breaks when you&#39;re supposed to be given your breaks, and so on and so forth. [/b]
all of which have long been accomplish, so perhaps we should get rid of unons?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 08:51 PM
all of which have long been accomplish, so perhaps we should get rid of unons?
What and leave ourselves completley defensless against the bosses removing these rights in the name of their profits. Like fuck we will. Unions may not be the best answer for worker freedom but they&#39;re a fuck sight better than having no such organisation, especially under this capitalist system.

[theraven]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+Jun 27 2006, 08:54 PM--> (Jazzratt @ Jun 27 2006, 08:54 PM)
[email protected] 27 2006, 08:51 PM
all of which have long been accomplish, so perhaps we should get rid of unons?
What and leave ourselves completley defensless against the bosses removing these rights in the name of their profits. Like fuck we will. Unions may not be the best answer for worker freedom but they&#39;re a fuck sight better than having no such organisation, especially under this capitalist system. [/b]
except...all those "rights" (which btw aren&#39;t rights) are in LAW....

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by theraven+Jun 27 2006, 03:06 PM--> (theraven @ Jun 27 2006, 03:06 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 08:54 PM

[email protected] 27 2006, 08:51 PM
all of which have long been accomplish, so perhaps we should get rid of unons?
What and leave ourselves completley defensless against the bosses removing these rights in the name of their profits. Like fuck we will. Unions may not be the best answer for worker freedom but they&#39;re a fuck sight better than having no such organisation, especially under this capitalist system.
except...all those "rights" (which btw aren&#39;t rights) are in LAW.... [/b]
You actually think that all businesses or companies follow the laws all the time? Yes those are rights. The workers should be treated fairly.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by theraven+Jun 27 2006, 09:06 PM--> (theraven @ Jun 27 2006, 09:06 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 08:54 PM

[email protected] 27 2006, 08:51 PM
all of which have long been accomplish, so perhaps we should get rid of unons?
What and leave ourselves completley defensless against the bosses removing these rights in the name of their profits. Like fuck we will. Unions may not be the best answer for worker freedom but they&#39;re a fuck sight better than having no such organisation, especially under this capitalist system.
except...all those "rights" (which btw aren&#39;t rights) are in LAW.... [/b]
Oh like that&#39;s a fucking obstacle, with enough money and influence law means fuck all.

[theraven]

Originally posted by C_Rasmussen+Jun 27 2006, 09:13 PM--> (C_Rasmussen @ Jun 27 2006, 09:13 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 08:54 PM

[email protected] 27 2006, 08:51 PM
all of which have long been accomplish, so perhaps we should get rid of unons?
What and leave ourselves completley defensless against the bosses removing these rights in the name of their profits. Like fuck we will. Unions may not be the best answer for worker freedom but they&#39;re a fuck sight better than having no such organisation, especially under this capitalist system.
except...all those "rights" (which btw aren&#39;t rights) are in LAW....
You actually think that all businesses or companies follow the laws all the time? Yes those are rights. The workers should be treated fairly. [/b]
no a right is something that cannot be taken away from you except by force, things like speech and such. having 3 coffee breaks is NOT a right.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by theraven+Jun 27 2006, 09:17 PM--> (theraven @ Jun 27 2006, 09:17 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 08:54 PM

[email protected] 27 2006, 08:51 PM
all of which have long been accomplish, so perhaps we should get rid of unons?
What and leave ourselves completley defensless against the bosses removing these rights in the name of their profits. Like fuck we will. Unions may not be the best answer for worker freedom but they&#39;re a fuck sight better than having no such organisation, especially under this capitalist system.
except...all those "rights" (which btw aren&#39;t rights) are in LAW....
You actually think that all businesses or companies follow the laws all the time? Yes those are rights. The workers should be treated fairly.
no a right is something that cannot be taken away from you except by force, things like speech and such. having 3 coffee breaks is NOT a right. [/b]
So what if they&#39;re not rights? They&#39;re part of not being treated like shit, which is the basis of all human rights and SHOULD be the basis of all human behaviour (and would be if it weren&#39;t for the fucking capitalist ****s.)

[theraven]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+Jun 27 2006, 09:24 PM--> (Jazzratt @ Jun 27 2006, 09:24 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 08:54 PM

[email protected] 27 2006, 08:51 PM
all of which have long been accomplish, so perhaps we should get rid of unons?
What and leave ourselves completley defensless against the bosses removing these rights in the name of their profits. Like fuck we will. Unions may not be the best answer for worker freedom but they&#39;re a fuck sight better than having no such organisation, especially under this capitalist system.
except...all those "rights" (which btw aren&#39;t rights) are in LAW....
You actually think that all businesses or companies follow the laws all the time? Yes those are rights. The workers should be treated fairly.
no a right is something that cannot be taken away from you except by force, things like speech and such. having 3 coffee breaks is NOT a right.
So what if they&#39;re not rights? They&#39;re part of not being treated like shit, which is the basis of all human rights and SHOULD be the basis of all human behaviour (and would be if it weren&#39;t for the fucking capitalist ****s.) [/b]
no, no one is ENTiTLED to be treated with dignitiy, you have to earn it. sad but true. oh and humans have been treating each other liek shit since the dawn of time, its not capitislms fault.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by theraven+Jun 27 2006, 09:37 PM--> (theraven @ Jun 27 2006, 09:37 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 08:54 PM

[email protected] 27 2006, 08:51 PM
all of which have long been accomplish, so perhaps we should get rid of unons?
What and leave ourselves completley defensless against the bosses removing these rights in the name of their profits. Like fuck we will. Unions may not be the best answer for worker freedom but they&#39;re a fuck sight better than having no such organisation, especially under this capitalist system.
except...all those "rights" (which btw aren&#39;t rights) are in LAW....
You actually think that all businesses or companies follow the laws all the time? Yes those are rights. The workers should be treated fairly.
no a right is something that cannot be taken away from you except by force, things like speech and such. having 3 coffee breaks is NOT a right.
So what if they&#39;re not rights? They&#39;re part of not being treated like shit, which is the basis of all human rights and SHOULD be the basis of all human behaviour (and would be if it weren&#39;t for the fucking capitalist ****s.)
no, no one is ENTiTLED to be treated with dignitiy, you have to earn it. sad but true. oh and humans have been treating each other liek shit since the dawn of time, its not capitislms fault. [/b]
And on what grounds are you basing that first claim? I didn&#39;t say it was capitalisms fault that we have been treating each other like shit since some bright spark declared himself &#39;chieftan&#39;, I merely meant that capitalism perpetuates this kind of horrendousness. Honsetly anyone who can claim that they support capitalism makes me want to vomit.