Bolshevik Theorists

[nickdlc]

I'm interested in reading some bolshevik theorists other than Lenin and Trotsky, which ones should i read???

[nickdlc]

I'm interested in reading some bolshevik theorists other than Lenin and Trotsky, which ones should i read???

[nickdlc]

I'm interested in reading some bolshevik theorists other than Lenin and Trotsky, which ones should i read???

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Gramsci (but some might object!); Tony Cliff (for sure), Ernest Mandel, Ted Grant (if you want to get to sleep quickly), Chis Harman, Alex Callinicos, Duncan Hallas....

But, I think I'm giving my affiliations away too much!

[If you want to know which books, just let me know!]

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Gramsci (but some might object!); Tony Cliff (for sure), Ernest Mandel, Ted Grant (if you want to get to sleep quickly), Chis Harman, Alex Callinicos, Duncan Hallas....

But, I think I'm giving my affiliations away too much!

[If you want to know which books, just let me know!]

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Gramsci (but some might object!); Tony Cliff (for sure), Ernest Mandel, Ted Grant (if you want to get to sleep quickly), Chis Harman, Alex Callinicos, Duncan Hallas....

But, I think I'm giving my affiliations away too much!

[If you want to know which books, just let me know!]

[Comrade Don]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 04:10 PM
I'm interested in reading some bolshevik theorists other than Lenin and Trotsky, which ones should i read???
Well for me there is no doubt about the fact that you should read Stalin's work.

[Comrade Don]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 04:10 PM
I'm interested in reading some bolshevik theorists other than Lenin and Trotsky, which ones should i read???
Well for me there is no doubt about the fact that you should read Stalin's work.

[Comrade Don]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 04:10 PM
I'm interested in reading some bolshevik theorists other than Lenin and Trotsky, which ones should i read???
Well for me there is no doubt about the fact that you should read Stalin's work.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by Comrade Don+Jun 23 2006, 04:49 PM--> (Comrade Don @ Jun 23 2006, 04:49 PM)
[email protected] 23 2006, 04:10 PM
I'm interested in reading some bolshevik theorists other than Lenin and Trotsky, which ones should i read???
Well for me there is no doubt about the fact that you should read Stalin's work. [/b]
Not much of that...the man wasn't exactly the best writer....


Oh and Mao might be a good idea too. Some good stuff, might not agree, but still...worth reading.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by Comrade Don+Jun 23 2006, 04:49 PM--> (Comrade Don @ Jun 23 2006, 04:49 PM)
[email protected] 23 2006, 04:10 PM
I'm interested in reading some bolshevik theorists other than Lenin and Trotsky, which ones should i read???
Well for me there is no doubt about the fact that you should read Stalin's work. [/b]
Not much of that...the man wasn't exactly the best writer....


Oh and Mao might be a good idea too. Some good stuff, might not agree, but still...worth reading.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by Comrade Don+Jun 23 2006, 04:49 PM--> (Comrade Don @ Jun 23 2006, 04:49 PM)
[email protected] 23 2006, 04:10 PM
I'm interested in reading some bolshevik theorists other than Lenin and Trotsky, which ones should i read???
Well for me there is no doubt about the fact that you should read Stalin's work. [/b]
Not much of that...the man wasn't exactly the best writer....


Oh and Mao might be a good idea too. Some good stuff, might not agree, but still...worth reading.

[Led Zeppelin]

Bukharin.

[Led Zeppelin]

Bukharin.

[Led Zeppelin]

Bukharin.

[nickdlc]

Thanks guys but how about bolshevik theorists who were involved in the russian revolution or were prominent around 1917-1923? I should have been more explicit :ph34r: I hear lots about plekhanov is he interesting?

[nickdlc]

Thanks guys but how about bolshevik theorists who were involved in the russian revolution or were prominent around 1917-1923? I should have been more explicit :ph34r: I hear lots about plekhanov is he interesting?

[nickdlc]

Thanks guys but how about bolshevik theorists who were involved in the russian revolution or were prominent around 1917-1923? I should have been more explicit :ph34r: I hear lots about plekhanov is he interesting?

[Led Zeppelin]

Early Plekhanov is good, he wasn't a Bolshevik though.

[Led Zeppelin]

Early Plekhanov is good, he wasn't a Bolshevik though.

[Led Zeppelin]

Early Plekhanov is good, he wasn't a Bolshevik though.

[Janus]

Some good stuff, might not agree, but still...worth reading.
His ideas behind guerrilla warfare, maybe. But you might as well read Sun Zi since he took a lot of stuff from there.

Let's see, what else.

Kamenev and Zinoviev, perhaps?

[Janus]

Some good stuff, might not agree, but still...worth reading.
His ideas behind guerrilla warfare, maybe. But you might as well read Sun Zi since he took a lot of stuff from there.

Let's see, what else.

Kamenev and Zinoviev, perhaps?

[Janus]

Some good stuff, might not agree, but still...worth reading.
His ideas behind guerrilla warfare, maybe. But you might as well read Sun Zi since he took a lot of stuff from there.

Let's see, what else.

Kamenev and Zinoviev, perhaps?

[More Fire for the People]

Bolshevik & Leninist Theorist I recommend:
Dialectical and Historical Materialism (http://marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm) by Josef Stalin
Workers’ Opposition (http://marxists.org/archive/kollonta/works/1921/workers-opposition/index.htm) by Alexandra Kollontai
Antonio Gramsci
Georg Lukács
Ernest Mandel
Duncan Hallas
Chris Harman

You can find many of their works at http://marxists.org, http://marxists.de, and http://isj.org.uk.

[More Fire for the People]

Bolshevik & Leninist Theorist I recommend:
Dialectical and Historical Materialism (http://marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm) by Josef Stalin
Workers’ Opposition (http://marxists.org/archive/kollonta/works/1921/workers-opposition/index.htm) by Alexandra Kollontai
Antonio Gramsci
Georg Lukács
Ernest Mandel
Duncan Hallas
Chris Harman

You can find many of their works at http://marxists.org, http://marxists.de, and http://isj.org.uk.

[More Fire for the People]

Bolshevik & Leninist Theorist I recommend:
Dialectical and Historical Materialism (http://marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm) by Josef Stalin
Workers’ Opposition (http://marxists.org/archive/kollonta/works/1921/workers-opposition/index.htm) by Alexandra Kollontai
Antonio Gramsci
Georg Lukács
Ernest Mandel
Duncan Hallas
Chris Harman

You can find many of their works at http://marxists.org, http://marxists.de, and http://isj.org.uk.

[Leo]

I'm interested in reading some bolshevik theorists other than Lenin and Trotsky, which ones should i read???

The only other bolshevik theorist around is Kollontai and her crew, and they weren't really liked by Lenin or Trotsky.

If you are looking for Leninists, it depends on what kind of Leninists you are looking for. If you are looking for 'Leninists' who exceeded the paradigm, I would say read Alexandra Kollontai, Amadeo Bordiga, Georg Lukács, Raya Dunayevskaya and also Olivier Besancenot if you can find something he wrote that isn't in French. Those people, altough being symphatetic to Lenin and/or Trotsky, managed to exceed them by far. You can also read Gramsci but don't have very high expectations. If you are looking for mere parrots of Lenin and/or Trotsky, I think all the names you need had been posted :lol:

[Leo]

I'm interested in reading some bolshevik theorists other than Lenin and Trotsky, which ones should i read???

The only other bolshevik theorist around is Kollontai and her crew, and they weren't really liked by Lenin or Trotsky.

If you are looking for Leninists, it depends on what kind of Leninists you are looking for. If you are looking for 'Leninists' who exceeded the paradigm, I would say read Alexandra Kollontai, Amadeo Bordiga, Georg Lukács, Raya Dunayevskaya and also Olivier Besancenot if you can find something he wrote that isn't in French. Those people, altough being symphatetic to Lenin and/or Trotsky, managed to exceed them by far. You can also read Gramsci but don't have very high expectations. If you are looking for mere parrots of Lenin and/or Trotsky, I think all the names you need had been posted :lol:

[Leo]

I'm interested in reading some bolshevik theorists other than Lenin and Trotsky, which ones should i read???

The only other bolshevik theorist around is Kollontai and her crew, and they weren't really liked by Lenin or Trotsky.

If you are looking for Leninists, it depends on what kind of Leninists you are looking for. If you are looking for 'Leninists' who exceeded the paradigm, I would say read Alexandra Kollontai, Amadeo Bordiga, Georg Lukács, Raya Dunayevskaya and also Olivier Besancenot if you can find something he wrote that isn't in French. Those people, altough being symphatetic to Lenin and/or Trotsky, managed to exceed them by far. You can also read Gramsci but don't have very high expectations. If you are looking for mere parrots of Lenin and/or Trotsky, I think all the names you need had been posted :lol:

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

And if you want goobledygook, read some of Leo's suggestions (Dunayevskaya, for one -- 'The Power of Negativity' my foot...!).

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

And if you want goobledygook, read some of Leo's suggestions (Dunayevskaya, for one -- 'The Power of Negativity' my foot...!).

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

And if you want goobledygook, read some of Leo's suggestions (Dunayevskaya, for one -- 'The Power of Negativity' my foot...!).

[Leo]

And if you want goobledygook, read some of Leo's suggestions (Dunayevskaya, for one -- 'The Power of Negativity' my foot...!).

Or maybe you should read Lenin on dialectics to see where Raya Dunayevskaya got the infection from.

I was reffering to the political and revolutionary works however.

[Leo]

And if you want goobledygook, read some of Leo's suggestions (Dunayevskaya, for one -- 'The Power of Negativity' my foot...!).

Or maybe you should read Lenin on dialectics to see where Raya Dunayevskaya got the infection from.

I was reffering to the political and revolutionary works however.

[Leo]

And if you want goobledygook, read some of Leo's suggestions (Dunayevskaya, for one -- 'The Power of Negativity' my foot...!).

Or maybe you should read Lenin on dialectics to see where Raya Dunayevskaya got the infection from.

I was reffering to the political and revolutionary works however.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Leo:


Or maybe you should read Lenin on dialectics to see where Raya Dunayevskaya got the infection from.

Absolutely; the poor boy has enough dialectical spaghetti to work his way through; do not give him any more!


I was reffering to the political and revolutionary works however.

Leo, I am sure you were, but your put down of other (original) Bolsheviks is what got my goat.

[Leo]

Leo, I am sure you were, but your put down of other (original) Bolsheviks is what got my goat.

Well, first of all they were theoretically weaker than the people I listed. For Lenin's case, the concept of Imperialism was discovered by Rosa Luxemburg about ten years (if I'm not mistaken) before Lenin actually wrote the book, as for State and Revolution it was basically quoting Marx and adding some commentry to adapt it to his organization and the situation in Russia, finally What is to be done, the idea of a vanguard turned out to be catasthrophic. Trotsky did stand 'next to' Lenin in all this, the only original theory he had was the theory of permenant revolution, which Lenin also eventually embraced, but first of all that was originally discovered by Marx (revolution in permenance), secondly altough the name sounded great, theoretical background did not go any further then trying to use the concept to make his propaganda.

Secondly, and more importantly, the practice of Leninism was responsible for Stalinism. That was where it was going to get, the symptoms were obvious, the crushing of Kronstadt and Makhnovist Ukraine, rejection of Kollontai's propositions etc. etc. Stalinism is the natural conclusion of Leninism, not that Lenin would like it, he wouldn't but the whole idea of a leader changing the 'course of history' entirely is ridiculous. Leaders don't make history, history makes leaders.

So yeah, I am putting original bolsheviks down. There is nothing personal, its not that I am trying to damage cults surrounding them (because I couldn't care less about those cults) but theoretically they were not strong as the people I listed and their practice was an ultimate failure, therefore I tried to list people who managed to broke away from the real aspects of the paradigm, but remained symphatethic to Lenin and Trotsky because Lenin had that succesful revolution (which is technically a coup with revolutionary characteristics and popular support actually) and Trotsky had managed to create an opposition platform against Stalin. Lenin and Trotsky were sincere revolutionaries, but distinctive ideas of Leninism, i.e ideas of Leninism that seperated Leninism from Marxism (which is actually the Leninist paradigm itself), were wrong.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Leo, I disgree with your analysis of Lenin (i.e, that Leninism was 'responsible' for Stalin), but this is not the place to discuss this.

And I take exception to your use of the word 'cult'.

That sort of language does not help.

[Ian]

Alexandra Kollontai and Victor Serge are good bolshies for a bit of differing perspective.

[Leo]

Rosa, sorry for my delay, I was on the move for the last week so I didn't find chance to reply you.


Leo, I disgree with your analysis of Lenin (i.e, that Leninism was 'responsible' for Stalin), but this is not the place to discuss this.

Well, ok, you are right about that, but I really would like to discuss this (maybe we can split the thread?) no matter what I'm not letting you off the hook on this one so easily. :) :D :lol:


And I take exception to your use of the word 'cult'.

That sort of language does not help.

I am not trying to be offensive or anything like that here, Lenin's cult became so disgusting after the full dominance of buerocratic power in the USSR that I quite frankly think he would shoot himself if he had the tiniest idea on what was going on. As for the exalting of Trotsky's personality, his was a defensive cult which actually was unsuccesful even when Trotskyism was at its highest peak, which was not really even close to being near any opposition movement that could've ever had a chance; nowdays it is pointless, futile idiotic and (it is a long shot but) potentially dangerous. As a matter of fact, all personality cults , cults surrounding individuals that have been exalted are like that. Using that word does help. If I can make one Trot stop identifying himself or herself with a revolutionary who does not have any theoretical breakthrough and more importantly someone who has been dead for sixty years (identifying with Marx or Darwin is ok because of the radical theory and even more radical methods of thinking that came into existance but still it is always better for one to be identified with a vision of future, not an individual from the past), that'll be helpfull enough.