I Hate Mikhail Gorbachev

[Avtomatov]

Socialism is more important then multi-party democracy. He ruined communisms chances at success. I hate him. What do you guys think about him?

[Avtomatov]

Socialism is more important then multi-party democracy. He ruined communisms chances at success. I hate him. What do you guys think about him?

[Avtomatov]

Socialism is more important then multi-party democracy. He ruined communisms chances at success. I hate him. What do you guys think about him?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Socialism is more important then multi-party democracy.

Who is to say socialism and multi-party democracy doesn't fit together?


He ruined communisms chances at success.

You mean the "success" of a small clique?
The people were powerless. They had no power. Is that what you call communism?



What do you guys think about him?

I do not like him.

The only thing I like is that he brought a certain freedom of speech to the USSR. Other than that, I believe he is a bastard. A lot of Russians would agree.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Socialism is more important then multi-party democracy.

Who is to say socialism and multi-party democracy doesn't fit together?


He ruined communisms chances at success.

You mean the "success" of a small clique?
The people were powerless. They had no power. Is that what you call communism?



What do you guys think about him?

I do not like him.

The only thing I like is that he brought a certain freedom of speech to the USSR. Other than that, I believe he is a bastard. A lot of Russians would agree.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Socialism is more important then multi-party democracy.

Who is to say socialism and multi-party democracy doesn't fit together?


He ruined communisms chances at success.

You mean the "success" of a small clique?
The people were powerless. They had no power. Is that what you call communism?



What do you guys think about him?

I do not like him.

The only thing I like is that he brought a certain freedom of speech to the USSR. Other than that, I believe he is a bastard. A lot of Russians would agree.

[Avtomatov]

We were lucky to have the USSR around, they spread the ideas of communism around. The dictatorship ended too early IMO, Theres still too many theists in the world for one thing. The USSR managed to make about half of russia irreligious. IMO if the whole world was under the control of the USSR, communism would be the norm and eventually when the USSR would fall it would have been democratic socialism, not liberalism and capitalism.

[Avtomatov]

We were lucky to have the USSR around, they spread the ideas of communism around. The dictatorship ended too early IMO, Theres still too many theists in the world for one thing. The USSR managed to make about half of russia irreligious. IMO if the whole world was under the control of the USSR, communism would be the norm and eventually when the USSR would fall it would have been democratic socialism, not liberalism and capitalism.

[Avtomatov]

We were lucky to have the USSR around, they spread the ideas of communism around. The dictatorship ended too early IMO, Theres still too many theists in the world for one thing. The USSR managed to make about half of russia irreligious. IMO if the whole world was under the control of the USSR, communism would be the norm and eventually when the USSR would fall it would have been democratic socialism, not liberalism and capitalism.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

We were lucky to have the USSR around, they spread the ideas of communism around.

Pray tell, what is the difference between an economy owned by the state, who is controlled by people who live in luxury compared to the common people, and an economy owned by a pure capitalist class?

Maybe there is a slight difference. But it is not the workers who are in power.

If it was not for the SU after Lenin, socialism would be a more accepted idea,



The dictatorship ended too early IMO,

Why are you so dictatorship loving? Why do you sympathise with a small clique who didn't give a crap about the working class?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

We were lucky to have the USSR around, they spread the ideas of communism around.

Pray tell, what is the difference between an economy owned by the state, who is controlled by people who live in luxury compared to the common people, and an economy owned by a pure capitalist class?

Maybe there is a slight difference. But it is not the workers who are in power.

If it was not for the SU after Lenin, socialism would be a more accepted idea,



The dictatorship ended too early IMO,

Why are you so dictatorship loving? Why do you sympathise with a small clique who didn't give a crap about the working class?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

We were lucky to have the USSR around, they spread the ideas of communism around.

Pray tell, what is the difference between an economy owned by the state, who is controlled by people who live in luxury compared to the common people, and an economy owned by a pure capitalist class?

Maybe there is a slight difference. But it is not the workers who are in power.

If it was not for the SU after Lenin, socialism would be a more accepted idea,



The dictatorship ended too early IMO,

Why are you so dictatorship loving? Why do you sympathise with a small clique who didn't give a crap about the working class?

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 10:09 PM
We were lucky to have the USSR around, they spread the ideas of communism around.
No it created a stain on the name of communism.


The dictatorship ended too early IMO

Who in their right mind wants a dictatorship?

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 10:09 PM
We were lucky to have the USSR around, they spread the ideas of communism around.
No it created a stain on the name of communism.


The dictatorship ended too early IMO

Who in their right mind wants a dictatorship?

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 10:09 PM
We were lucky to have the USSR around, they spread the ideas of communism around.
No it created a stain on the name of communism.


The dictatorship ended too early IMO

Who in their right mind wants a dictatorship?

[Avtomatov]

The dictatorship did good things in russia. I want more.

Sure i wouldnt want it forever, we wouldnt need it forever, it would disappear with its usefulness. But id rather live in the former USSR then in canada. Eventually we wouldnt need a dictatorship once everyone is atheist or agnostic, and socialist.

[Avtomatov]

The dictatorship did good things in russia. I want more.

Sure i wouldnt want it forever, we wouldnt need it forever, it would disappear with its usefulness. But id rather live in the former USSR then in canada. Eventually we wouldnt need a dictatorship once everyone is atheist or agnostic, and socialist.

[Avtomatov]

The dictatorship did good things in russia. I want more.

Sure i wouldnt want it forever, we wouldnt need it forever, it would disappear with its usefulness. But id rather live in the former USSR then in canada. Eventually we wouldnt need a dictatorship once everyone is atheist or agnostic, and socialist.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

The dictatorship did good things in russia. I want more.

How about you ask the Russian people what they like? Oh fuck that, let's just have a dictatorship.


Would you like to be oppressed? Or would you just let others take the pain for you?

You know if you turn things more personal you realize pretty quickly that dictatorship, that slavery and oppression, is sick and twisted. It belongs to class societies.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

The dictatorship did good things in russia. I want more.

How about you ask the Russian people what they like? Oh fuck that, let's just have a dictatorship.


Would you like to be oppressed? Or would you just let others take the pain for you?

You know if you turn things more personal you realize pretty quickly that dictatorship, that slavery and oppression, is sick and twisted. It belongs to class societies.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

The dictatorship did good things in russia. I want more.

How about you ask the Russian people what they like? Oh fuck that, let's just have a dictatorship.


Would you like to be oppressed? Or would you just let others take the pain for you?

You know if you turn things more personal you realize pretty quickly that dictatorship, that slavery and oppression, is sick and twisted. It belongs to class societies.

[Janus]

The last time I heard of Gorbachev, he was doing some commercials for Pizza Hut. That pretty much shows the path that he took.

[Janus]

The last time I heard of Gorbachev, he was doing some commercials for Pizza Hut. That pretty much shows the path that he took.

[Janus]

The last time I heard of Gorbachev, he was doing some commercials for Pizza Hut. That pretty much shows the path that he took.

[CCCPneubauten]

Russians seem to love 'dictators' it's a part of their history. The more 'dictator-like' Putin gets the more people like the man.

[CCCPneubauten]

Russians seem to love 'dictators' it's a part of their history. The more 'dictator-like' Putin gets the more people like the man.

[CCCPneubauten]

Russians seem to love 'dictators' it's a part of their history. The more 'dictator-like' Putin gets the more people like the man.

[Red Heretic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 08:19 PM
Socialism is more important then multi-party democracy. He ruined communisms chances at success. I hate him. What do you guys think about him?
I think the man you should be hating is Nikita Khruschev... It was Khruschev who restored capitalism in the Soviet Union... Gorbachev just threw away the mask.

[Red Heretic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 08:19 PM
Socialism is more important then multi-party democracy. He ruined communisms chances at success. I hate him. What do you guys think about him?
I think the man you should be hating is Nikita Khruschev... It was Khruschev who restored capitalism in the Soviet Union... Gorbachev just threw away the mask.

[Red Heretic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 08:19 PM
Socialism is more important then multi-party democracy. He ruined communisms chances at success. I hate him. What do you guys think about him?
I think the man you should be hating is Nikita Khruschev... It was Khruschev who restored capitalism in the Soviet Union... Gorbachev just threw away the mask.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

How about you ask the Russian people what they like?

It's been done.. guess what the result was?

Seventy-eight percent of respondents in a 2003 survey said that democracy is a facade for a government controlled by rich and powerful cliques. Only 22 percent expressed a preference for democracy, whereas 53 percent positively disliked it - ("Izvestiia," July 29, 2003).

Asked in another poll whether multiparty elections do more harm than good, 52 percent of respondents answered "more harm" and a mere 15 percent said "more good" (Vestnik Moskovskoi Shkoly Politicheskikh Issledovanii, no. 10 (1998)).

Political parties are also unpopular, and most Russians are quite amenable to living in a one-party state. According to a recent survey by the Center of Sociological Studies of the University of Moscow, 82 percent of Russians feel they have no influence over the national government; 78 percent say they even have no influence over local government ("Izvestiia," Nov. 14, 2003).

Eighty-four percent of those surveyed in a poll published in January 2004, for example, said that wealth in Russia can be acquired only through connections. Four out of five respondents stated that the inequalities in wealth in modern Russia are excessive and illegitimate, and most blamed the country's widespread poverty on an unjust economic system ("Izvestiia," Jan. 22, 2004).

Russians -- 74 percent in one poll -- regret the Soviet Union's passing ( "Chelovek i vlast'" (Moscow, 1999); "Izvestiia," July 29, 2003).

Another survey, conducted toward the end of 2000, asked Russian citizens whether they considered the present regime or the one that had preceded it to be "legitimate, popular, and their own." Fully one-third applied these adjectives to the Soviet Union, a regime that had ceased to exist nine years earlier. Only 12 percent regarded the postcommunist regime as "legitimate," and only 2 percent called it "their own" ("Izvestiia," Nov. 21, 2000).

Hence it is not surprising that when asked in an October 2003 survey how they would react if the Communists staged a coup, 23 percent of respondents said they would actively support it, 19 would collaborate with the insurgents, 27 percent would try to survive, 16 percent would emigrate, and only 10 percent would actively resist ("Izvestiia," Nov. 8, 2003).

And btw, your use of the word "dictatorship" in the bourgeois sense is really revealing of your political bankruptcy. It's also rather disappointing. You've been around here long enough to know better.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

How about you ask the Russian people what they like?

It's been done.. guess what the result was?

Seventy-eight percent of respondents in a 2003 survey said that democracy is a facade for a government controlled by rich and powerful cliques. Only 22 percent expressed a preference for democracy, whereas 53 percent positively disliked it - ("Izvestiia," July 29, 2003).

Asked in another poll whether multiparty elections do more harm than good, 52 percent of respondents answered "more harm" and a mere 15 percent said "more good" (Vestnik Moskovskoi Shkoly Politicheskikh Issledovanii, no. 10 (1998)).

Political parties are also unpopular, and most Russians are quite amenable to living in a one-party state. According to a recent survey by the Center of Sociological Studies of the University of Moscow, 82 percent of Russians feel they have no influence over the national government; 78 percent say they even have no influence over local government ("Izvestiia," Nov. 14, 2003).

Eighty-four percent of those surveyed in a poll published in January 2004, for example, said that wealth in Russia can be acquired only through connections. Four out of five respondents stated that the inequalities in wealth in modern Russia are excessive and illegitimate, and most blamed the country's widespread poverty on an unjust economic system ("Izvestiia," Jan. 22, 2004).

Russians -- 74 percent in one poll -- regret the Soviet Union's passing ( "Chelovek i vlast'" (Moscow, 1999); "Izvestiia," July 29, 2003).

Another survey, conducted toward the end of 2000, asked Russian citizens whether they considered the present regime or the one that had preceded it to be "legitimate, popular, and their own." Fully one-third applied these adjectives to the Soviet Union, a regime that had ceased to exist nine years earlier. Only 12 percent regarded the postcommunist regime as "legitimate," and only 2 percent called it "their own" ("Izvestiia," Nov. 21, 2000).

Hence it is not surprising that when asked in an October 2003 survey how they would react if the Communists staged a coup, 23 percent of respondents said they would actively support it, 19 would collaborate with the insurgents, 27 percent would try to survive, 16 percent would emigrate, and only 10 percent would actively resist ("Izvestiia," Nov. 8, 2003).

And btw, your use of the word "dictatorship" in the bourgeois sense is really revealing of your political bankruptcy. It's also rather disappointing. You've been around here long enough to know better.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

How about you ask the Russian people what they like?

It's been done.. guess what the result was?

Seventy-eight percent of respondents in a 2003 survey said that democracy is a facade for a government controlled by rich and powerful cliques. Only 22 percent expressed a preference for democracy, whereas 53 percent positively disliked it - ("Izvestiia," July 29, 2003).

Asked in another poll whether multiparty elections do more harm than good, 52 percent of respondents answered "more harm" and a mere 15 percent said "more good" (Vestnik Moskovskoi Shkoly Politicheskikh Issledovanii, no. 10 (1998)).

Political parties are also unpopular, and most Russians are quite amenable to living in a one-party state. According to a recent survey by the Center of Sociological Studies of the University of Moscow, 82 percent of Russians feel they have no influence over the national government; 78 percent say they even have no influence over local government ("Izvestiia," Nov. 14, 2003).

Eighty-four percent of those surveyed in a poll published in January 2004, for example, said that wealth in Russia can be acquired only through connections. Four out of five respondents stated that the inequalities in wealth in modern Russia are excessive and illegitimate, and most blamed the country's widespread poverty on an unjust economic system ("Izvestiia," Jan. 22, 2004).

Russians -- 74 percent in one poll -- regret the Soviet Union's passing ( "Chelovek i vlast'" (Moscow, 1999); "Izvestiia," July 29, 2003).

Another survey, conducted toward the end of 2000, asked Russian citizens whether they considered the present regime or the one that had preceded it to be "legitimate, popular, and their own." Fully one-third applied these adjectives to the Soviet Union, a regime that had ceased to exist nine years earlier. Only 12 percent regarded the postcommunist regime as "legitimate," and only 2 percent called it "their own" ("Izvestiia," Nov. 21, 2000).

Hence it is not surprising that when asked in an October 2003 survey how they would react if the Communists staged a coup, 23 percent of respondents said they would actively support it, 19 would collaborate with the insurgents, 27 percent would try to survive, 16 percent would emigrate, and only 10 percent would actively resist ("Izvestiia," Nov. 8, 2003).

And btw, your use of the word "dictatorship" in the bourgeois sense is really revealing of your political bankruptcy. It's also rather disappointing. You've been around here long enough to know better.

[RedGeorge]

Moving slightly off-topic...


Hence it is not surprising that when asked in an October 2003 survey how they would react if the Communists staged a coup, 23 percent of respondents said they would actively support it, 19 would collaborate with the insurgents, 27 percent would try to survive, 16 percent would emigrate, and only 10 percent would actively resist ("Izvestiia," Nov. 8, 2003).

Do you think the Communist Party (which is still the main opposition in Russia, lthough it is very small compared to the main party (United Russia?)) would ever try to seize power again? Especially if there became more support for them at some point in the future?

[RedGeorge]

Moving slightly off-topic...


Hence it is not surprising that when asked in an October 2003 survey how they would react if the Communists staged a coup, 23 percent of respondents said they would actively support it, 19 would collaborate with the insurgents, 27 percent would try to survive, 16 percent would emigrate, and only 10 percent would actively resist ("Izvestiia," Nov. 8, 2003).

Do you think the Communist Party (which is still the main opposition in Russia, lthough it is very small compared to the main party (United Russia?)) would ever try to seize power again? Especially if there became more support for them at some point in the future?

[RedGeorge]

Moving slightly off-topic...


Hence it is not surprising that when asked in an October 2003 survey how they would react if the Communists staged a coup, 23 percent of respondents said they would actively support it, 19 would collaborate with the insurgents, 27 percent would try to survive, 16 percent would emigrate, and only 10 percent would actively resist ("Izvestiia," Nov. 8, 2003).

Do you think the Communist Party (which is still the main opposition in Russia, lthough it is very small compared to the main party (United Russia?)) would ever try to seize power again? Especially if there became more support for them at some point in the future?

[Connolly]

As far as I know, the main communist partys in Russia run for elections. So the hope of them coming to power through 'revolution' is faint.

And, even if they did get elected - I doubt theyd go by their promises to restore the 'might' of the old system.

Many communist partys have been restored through elections to power in the old eastern bloc.

Moldovia presently has a communist party in power (atleast they did recently)

Mongolia has a communist party in power (again, at leas they did recently)

And, I think, Poland once had a communist party in power sometime after the fall of Commuism.


Not to mention the Indian communist party is the 3rd? largest party in the country and has shared power at one point.


You see, if any communist party gains power in these old excommunist countries, I wouldnt expect another Leninist transformation of society. Initially, these leninists, when they siezed power in Russia and China were faced with feudal like conditions, backwardness in relation to other countries at the time. They offered something new, they could progress industry and break the old property relations. It seemed like they were progressing towards communism - when all they were doing was progressing towards capitalism.
But, the point is, they had someting in the line of progress to offer.

Now, however, they cant progress anything. They are in the capitalist stage of production(communism being a long way off). Any attempt at creating what they think socialism is, is slowing the further development of their present and rightful mode of production - capitalism.

To implement soviet style reforms will be damaging on the Russian economy and the country as a whole - and they wont risk the prestige of the party by fucking up their first time in power since their collapse.

Personally however, and void of any real rational conclusion, I would like to see the old Soviet Union back - ready to put the USA back in their place and ready to fund communist guerrillas around the world.

When it was around, it gave hope to thousands of popular revolutions around the world - filling them with the idea of what "might be communism this time".

Of course, nothing of the like will come from such revolutions - but it gives people hope in the end - and thats worth it - esoecially when people turn to Islam and Christianity for this hope of something better :angry:

[Connolly]

As far as I know, the main communist partys in Russia run for elections. So the hope of them coming to power through 'revolution' is faint.

And, even if they did get elected - I doubt theyd go by their promises to restore the 'might' of the old system.

Many communist partys have been restored through elections to power in the old eastern bloc.

Moldovia presently has a communist party in power (atleast they did recently)

Mongolia has a communist party in power (again, at leas they did recently)

And, I think, Poland once had a communist party in power sometime after the fall of Commuism.


Not to mention the Indian communist party is the 3rd? largest party in the country and has shared power at one point.


You see, if any communist party gains power in these old excommunist countries, I wouldnt expect another Leninist transformation of society. Initially, these leninists, when they siezed power in Russia and China were faced with feudal like conditions, backwardness in relation to other countries at the time. They offered something new, they could progress industry and break the old property relations. It seemed like they were progressing towards communism - when all they were doing was progressing towards capitalism.
But, the point is, they had someting in the line of progress to offer.

Now, however, they cant progress anything. They are in the capitalist stage of production(communism being a long way off). Any attempt at creating what they think socialism is, is slowing the further development of their present and rightful mode of production - capitalism.

To implement soviet style reforms will be damaging on the Russian economy and the country as a whole - and they wont risk the prestige of the party by fucking up their first time in power since their collapse.

Personally however, and void of any real rational conclusion, I would like to see the old Soviet Union back - ready to put the USA back in their place and ready to fund communist guerrillas around the world.

When it was around, it gave hope to thousands of popular revolutions around the world - filling them with the idea of what "might be communism this time".

Of course, nothing of the like will come from such revolutions - but it gives people hope in the end - and thats worth it - esoecially when people turn to Islam and Christianity for this hope of something better :angry:

[Connolly]

As far as I know, the main communist partys in Russia run for elections. So the hope of them coming to power through 'revolution' is faint.

And, even if they did get elected - I doubt theyd go by their promises to restore the 'might' of the old system.

Many communist partys have been restored through elections to power in the old eastern bloc.

Moldovia presently has a communist party in power (atleast they did recently)

Mongolia has a communist party in power (again, at leas they did recently)

And, I think, Poland once had a communist party in power sometime after the fall of Commuism.


Not to mention the Indian communist party is the 3rd? largest party in the country and has shared power at one point.


You see, if any communist party gains power in these old excommunist countries, I wouldnt expect another Leninist transformation of society. Initially, these leninists, when they siezed power in Russia and China were faced with feudal like conditions, backwardness in relation to other countries at the time. They offered something new, they could progress industry and break the old property relations. It seemed like they were progressing towards communism - when all they were doing was progressing towards capitalism.
But, the point is, they had someting in the line of progress to offer.

Now, however, they cant progress anything. They are in the capitalist stage of production(communism being a long way off). Any attempt at creating what they think socialism is, is slowing the further development of their present and rightful mode of production - capitalism.

To implement soviet style reforms will be damaging on the Russian economy and the country as a whole - and they wont risk the prestige of the party by fucking up their first time in power since their collapse.

Personally however, and void of any real rational conclusion, I would like to see the old Soviet Union back - ready to put the USA back in their place and ready to fund communist guerrillas around the world.

When it was around, it gave hope to thousands of popular revolutions around the world - filling them with the idea of what "might be communism this time".

Of course, nothing of the like will come from such revolutions - but it gives people hope in the end - and thats worth it - esoecially when people turn to Islam and Christianity for this hope of something better :angry:

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Seventy-eight percent of respondents in a 2003 survey said that democracy is a facade for a government controlled by rich and powerful cliques. Only 22 percent expressed a preference for democracy, whereas 53 percent positively disliked it


Yeah, but do they vote for any CP?
The majority doesn't.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Seventy-eight percent of respondents in a 2003 survey said that democracy is a facade for a government controlled by rich and powerful cliques. Only 22 percent expressed a preference for democracy, whereas 53 percent positively disliked it


Yeah, but do they vote for any CP?
The majority doesn't.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Seventy-eight percent of respondents in a 2003 survey said that democracy is a facade for a government controlled by rich and powerful cliques. Only 22 percent expressed a preference for democracy, whereas 53 percent positively disliked it


Yeah, but do they vote for any CP?
The majority doesn't.

[Comrade Don]

Gorbachev was a reformist and I hold him personally responsible for the current situation the communist movement is in, I would take the USSR circa 1952 before id take any hell whole thats around today, save Cuba and to an extent the DPRK.

[Comrade Don]

Gorbachev was a reformist and I hold him personally responsible for the current situation the communist movement is in, I would take the USSR circa 1952 before id take any hell whole thats around today, save Cuba and to an extent the DPRK.

[Comrade Don]

Gorbachev was a reformist and I hold him personally responsible for the current situation the communist movement is in, I would take the USSR circa 1952 before id take any hell whole thats around today, save Cuba and to an extent the DPRK.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Gorbachev was a reformist and I hold him personally responsible for the current situation the communist movement is in

Do you think the USSR was a great example of "socialism"?

[Mesijs]

It is interesting that Russians dislike the current situation but do not support the current communist party.

I guess when a charismatic person with good ideals would lead the party, they'd make a chance to get elections victory... but that's difficult, because the media etc is on the capitalist hand.


About Gorby, I think he had ideals of real freedom of speech and liberty etc, he did move away from stalinism, at least. But he didn't believe in socialism anymore and that was his big mistake. When he would be patient and rational, he could turn the USSR in a socialist democratic country.

But let's not forget, comrades, that Stalin was responsible for all this. He turend away generations of good Russians away from their ideals because of the brutal terror of the state. All leaders after him could only work on the ruined colonial country he left behind.

[Free Left]

What?!! I cannot believe what I am hearing!?!
I thought Gorbachev was great!? He realised that the USSR was falling apart and tried to reform it. He also believed in free speech and commiting more resources to manufacturing basic goods for the common people!
He did still believe in Socialism, but he just tried to reform it because he knew that Russia was on the brink of disaster.

[norwegian commie]

well, free left... Gorbachev was not great. He was no real communist, iwe even seen a pizza hut commercal with him in it... That is sick.

by the way, in gergovia (home of stalin) there is about to be raised a statur of stalin and a several museums on stalin. The common man there respects stalin for his work and do not belive the western propaganda that has damaged our image of him.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

well, free left... Gorbachev was not great. He was no real communist, iwe even seen a pizza hut commercal with him in it... That is sick.

Your Fidel Castro seems to really like him.

[elmo sez]

I heard that the elections in russia are rigged to prevent the communist party coming back to power, I heard it on Sky News , how true its i dont know

[Mesijs]

Originally posted by Free [email protected] 24 2006, 02:44 PM
What?!! I cannot believe what I am hearing!?!
I thought Gorbachev was great!? He realised that the USSR was falling apart and tried to reform it. He also believed in free speech and commiting more resources to manufacturing basic goods for the common people!
He did still believe in Socialism, but he just tried to reform it because he knew that Russia was on the brink of disaster.
Some things he did were good. He closed the forced labour camps forever, he promoted criticism and freedom of speech. These are great things for a stalinist country.

But I think he didn't believe in socialism anymore. In the beginning he did, but then he promoted concurrence between state-owned enterprises, the way he did it it was doomed and it did fail. He tried to import mechanics from capitalism, and in a socialist country it didn't work. Then he reformed the communist party in a social democratic party.

He surely did great things, he loved peace and freedom of speech, but after his reign the economy collapsed and wildwest capitalism flourished.


by the way, in gergovia (home of stalin) there is about to be raised a statur of stalin and a several museums on stalin. The common man there respects stalin for his work and do not belive the western propaganda that has damaged our image of him.

Western propaganda? Right. By the way, have you spoken to the Georgian common man? Why did they respect him? Was it because the gulag, the great terror, oppression of freedom of speech, crushing of different opinions, or something else?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Gorbachev is running on a "social democratic" platform now, isn't he?

If I recall correctly, he tried to stand for elections, but only got 1 percent of the votes. I also think there was a guy who threw a cake in his face in anger (heard that on another forum).

[Cheung Mo]

I disagree with his policies, but the only thing I truly hate about him is that he claimed to be emulating Dubcek.

[Free Left]

I heard that the elections in russia are rigged to prevent the communist party coming back to power, I heard it on Sky News , how true its i dont

Nah, Sky News will do anything to get a story and spread a bit of fear... But Russia is very corrupt..... ;)

[Avtomatov]

I dont know if elections are rigged. I know that the kremlin created a party i cant remember what its name was, but its purpose was to steal the communist parties votes.

[Comrade Don]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 11:35 PM
I dont know if elections are rigged. I know that the kremlin created a party i cant remember what its name was, but its purpose was to steal the communist parties votes.
If Iam not mistaken it is the Russian Unity Party.

But the Communist Party does not do utterly poorly, As there votes are on a continual rise, So Iam optomistic that they will eventually be back in power.

[Avtomatov]

Wikipedia says that the communists say the kremlin set up a Potemkin party known as Rodina.

Hopefully they win someday. Japans communist party has similar results(around 10%)

[Comrade Don]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 04:41 AM
Wikipedia says that the communists say the kremlin set up a Potemkin party known as Rodina.

Hopefully they win someday. Japans communist party has similar results(around 10%)
Oh sorry, I thought you were meaning who was in power.

Another thing, Never take what you hear from wikipedia as truth, Simply because anybody can write artcles, so just becareful of what you beleive.

[Free Left]

I dunno, if the Communist party regains power in Russia, there might be serious internal strife, perhaps even Civil war! :(
And the US, being pairnoid and conservative, will send in its army and air force to "free the Russian people and restore peace and order" :angry:

[norwegian commie]

Western propaganda? Right. By the way, have you spoken to the Georgian common man? Why did they respect him? Was it because the gulag, the great terror, oppression of freedom of speech, crushing of different opinions, or something else?

YEs, i guess its that black and white. Stalin was crazy and liked to kill people. Not one medical reort says he was crazy or had mental problems. The work he did was the reason the germans lost, at his time the russian revolution was weak- he crushed all who attempted to kill the communist dream.

The nazis had 175 bataljons against the eastern border and 65 bataljons against the western, Sovjet captured Berlin. 1917 russia was a feudal society without anything or any army at all. 1940 russian had managed to industrialise in an amazing speed making the country able to fight of and defeat hitler. All this we canthank sovjet and stalin for. Had the country been like 1917 or like it was under the tzar they would have been crushed and hitler could send his 175 NAZI BATALJONS ON THE WESTFRONT. Then the resault would have been quite different.

To protect freedom and the communist thougt Stalin ruthlessly took down opposors and oppressors. The fight was nessesary to maintain communism (you think you even would have been communist without sovjet? They are responsible for the spreading of the communist thougts... Reddiculus how commies blame sovjet for the bad rep on communism, that bad rep is created by USA and their propaganda they needed no sovjet to dspread their message... But we did!

I dont embrace myselvf over sovjet or stalin... But i respect them! i respect their place in history and neccesarity. I do not belive stalin was all wonderful, but i belive that the work he did was a must for the people in the world... Without him nazism would never have been crushedlike it was (eventualy it would have been crushed from inside) but the killings and mabye even destroying of the jeews would have goone much further. Dont curse sovjet without looking at the history and its neccesarity.

By the way, many have asked the common man in gergovia end he does not curse stalin to hell... But as i do, they see his neccesarity. Many of them eve reject many of the things stalin did. That i do not (exept the massgraves, that is a load of rubbish and leftovers from the germans)


Fidel respects Gorbachev, or at least the early Gorbachev. That is his buisness and his oppinions... Just because i admire a person, i dont have to embrace every idea they belive in. Fidel alsoe respected stalin.

[Aurora]

Are the russian communist party social-democratic? if so it would make no diference if they won or not.It would probably turn out like Labour in the UK.

[Vlad Rostov]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 09:42 PM
Are the russian communist party social-democratic? if so it would make no diference if they won or not.It would probably turn out like Labour in the UK.
Yes the russian communist party are Social Democrat, But really if they did win , I think it would be great just to know that a communist party is in power in russia, and I could see them making steps to build the soviet union again....hopefully.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

As there votes are on a continual rise

I have heard the opposite... Do you happen to have a link or some sort of documentation?

Thanks

[elmo sez]

Ive a clipping from the Sunday times book review section ,
so youll just have to trust me on what it wsays lol
according to that many people wish they could have the old communists back... by old communists i dont know what they mean ... but i think the mean the social benifits, because thats what the article is mostly about

[Dreckt]

No, I don't think that we will ever see a Soviet system again. At least not like what it was two decades ago. I would rather say that a semi-Soviet-Russian system would emerge, a kind of mix between the Soviet system (economic) and Russian nationalism/patriotism, instead of "communism".

The thing is that technology and "free speach" is developed in Russia, which would mean that "free" media would again be restricted. This would awaken international critique, as well as condemnation and maybe even war.

Then again, it would not be strange if people voted or chose a system in which there was only one party. Russia have never been capitalist in the sence of how the West view it, and only recently have capitalism really been practiced.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 12:42 PM

Seventy-eight percent of respondents in a 2003 survey said that democracy is a facade for a government controlled by rich and powerful cliques. Only 22 percent expressed a preference for democracy, whereas 53 percent positively disliked it


Yeah, but do they vote for any CP?
The majority doesn't.
I just showed you that the majority of them think voting is a fraud, so why would they participate in elections period?

Putin has a monopoly on the media and even went as far as jailing the reformist CP's candidate in the last presidential elections -- and he STILL got like 23% of the vote!

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by Red Heretic+Jun 23 2006, 12:04 AM--> (Red Heretic @ Jun 23 2006, 12:04 AM)
[email protected] 22 2006, 08:19 PM
Socialism is more important then multi-party democracy. He ruined communisms chances at success. I hate him. What do you guys think about him?
I think the man you should be hating is Nikita Khruschev... It was Khruschev who restored capitalism in the Soviet Union... Gorbachev just threw away the mask. [/b]
Could you elaborate this position? I've heard Maoist say this all the time but capitalist relations were not permitted until 1977, at least by law.

[Mesijs]

Originally posted by Hopscotch Anthill+Jun 26 2006, 02:28 AM--> (Hopscotch Anthill @ Jun 26 2006, 02:28 AM)
Originally posted by Red [email protected] 23 2006, 12:04 AM

[email protected] 22 2006, 08:19 PM
Socialism is more important then multi-party democracy. He ruined communisms chances at success. I hate him. What do you guys think about him?
I think the man you should be hating is Nikita Khruschev... It was Khruschev who restored capitalism in the Soviet Union... Gorbachev just threw away the mask.
Could you elaborate this position? I've heard Maoist say this all the time but capitalist relations were not permitted until 1977, at least by law. [/b]
Maoists just say that because Khrushchev was getting a bit tired of their god, and Mao was getting angry and irritating Khrushchev and then they got mad.

I guess Mao didn't like it that the successor of his big friend Stalin wasn't someone who constantly promoted the cult of the personal and put people in concentration camps.