Kim Jung Il Is No Revolutionary Or Communist

[FidelCastro]

I recently watched a documentry on this so called great leader of North Korea. Frankly, he's a loser. He rules a communist country yet he mas a massive movie colection and is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads. He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps. These people aren't even counter-revolutionaries, nor are they there for any particular crime. They're just they're. Kim Il Sung, his father, was a revolutionary of epic proportions, but his downfall was spoiling his son. Kim Jung Il also has to be least charasmatic leader I have ever seen. He's only given one speech to his people. Franly, he's a bit of a tool.

[FidelCastro]

I recently watched a documentry on this so called great leader of North Korea. Frankly, he's a loser. He rules a communist country yet he mas a massive movie colection and is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads. He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps. These people aren't even counter-revolutionaries, nor are they there for any particular crime. They're just they're. Kim Il Sung, his father, was a revolutionary of epic proportions, but his downfall was spoiling his son. Kim Jung Il also has to be least charasmatic leader I have ever seen. He's only given one speech to his people. Franly, he's a bit of a tool.

[FidelCastro]

I recently watched a documentry on this so called great leader of North Korea. Frankly, he's a loser. He rules a communist country yet he mas a massive movie colection and is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads. He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps. These people aren't even counter-revolutionaries, nor are they there for any particular crime. They're just they're. Kim Il Sung, his father, was a revolutionary of epic proportions, but his downfall was spoiling his son. Kim Jung Il also has to be least charasmatic leader I have ever seen. He's only given one speech to his people. Franly, he's a bit of a tool.

[RevMARKSman]

Kim Jung Il Is No Revolutionary Or Communist

I think we&#39;ve already established that, thanks anyway... <_<

[RevMARKSman]

Kim Jung Il Is No Revolutionary Or Communist

I think we&#39;ve already established that, thanks anyway... <_<

[RevMARKSman]

Kim Jung Il Is No Revolutionary Or Communist

I think we&#39;ve already established that, thanks anyway... <_<

[Rollo]

I&#39;de have a completely differnet opinion about him if he didn&#39;t star in a movie with puppets.

[Rollo]

I&#39;de have a completely differnet opinion about him if he didn&#39;t star in a movie with puppets.

[Rollo]

I&#39;de have a completely differnet opinion about him if he didn&#39;t star in a movie with puppets.

[Hiero]

What documentary?

[Hiero]

What documentary?

[Hiero]

What documentary?

[Dreckt]

There&#39;s another documentary called "Welcome to North Korea", but it is more of a overview of North Korea, but anyway.


Frankly, he&#39;s a loser. He rules a communist country yet he mas a massive movie colection and is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads.

There was never any communist about North Korea, or at least, there is not anymore. Kim Il Sung replaced "communism" with "Juche". Actually, North Korea is one of the most brutal regimes on this world at this moment.


He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps. These people aren&#39;t even counter-revolutionaries, nor are they there for any particular crime.

Well, for one, people are completely forbidden to speak anything negative of Kim Il Sung or his son Kim Jong Il. If you&#39;re lucky as a tourist you may just be banned from ever entering the country again, but your guide will probably spend the rest of her/his life in a camp. If you live there, then you go to the camp at once. Oh, and adressing Kim Il Sung must always be adressed as Great Leader, with Kim Jong Il adressed as Dear Leader.


Kim Il Sung, his father, was a revolutionary of epic proportions, but his downfall was spoiling his son.

Kim Il Sung may have been, like many other leaders, a good revolutionary. But he certainly was not a good leader.

[Dreckt]

There&#39;s another documentary called "Welcome to North Korea", but it is more of a overview of North Korea, but anyway.


Frankly, he&#39;s a loser. He rules a communist country yet he mas a massive movie colection and is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads.

There was never any communist about North Korea, or at least, there is not anymore. Kim Il Sung replaced "communism" with "Juche". Actually, North Korea is one of the most brutal regimes on this world at this moment.


He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps. These people aren&#39;t even counter-revolutionaries, nor are they there for any particular crime.

Well, for one, people are completely forbidden to speak anything negative of Kim Il Sung or his son Kim Jong Il. If you&#39;re lucky as a tourist you may just be banned from ever entering the country again, but your guide will probably spend the rest of her/his life in a camp. If you live there, then you go to the camp at once. Oh, and adressing Kim Il Sung must always be adressed as Great Leader, with Kim Jong Il adressed as Dear Leader.


Kim Il Sung, his father, was a revolutionary of epic proportions, but his downfall was spoiling his son.

Kim Il Sung may have been, like many other leaders, a good revolutionary. But he certainly was not a good leader.

[Dreckt]

There&#39;s another documentary called "Welcome to North Korea", but it is more of a overview of North Korea, but anyway.


Frankly, he&#39;s a loser. He rules a communist country yet he mas a massive movie colection and is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads.

There was never any communist about North Korea, or at least, there is not anymore. Kim Il Sung replaced "communism" with "Juche". Actually, North Korea is one of the most brutal regimes on this world at this moment.


He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps. These people aren&#39;t even counter-revolutionaries, nor are they there for any particular crime.

Well, for one, people are completely forbidden to speak anything negative of Kim Il Sung or his son Kim Jong Il. If you&#39;re lucky as a tourist you may just be banned from ever entering the country again, but your guide will probably spend the rest of her/his life in a camp. If you live there, then you go to the camp at once. Oh, and adressing Kim Il Sung must always be adressed as Great Leader, with Kim Jong Il adressed as Dear Leader.


Kim Il Sung, his father, was a revolutionary of epic proportions, but his downfall was spoiling his son.

Kim Il Sung may have been, like many other leaders, a good revolutionary. But he certainly was not a good leader.

[Comrade Don]

Argh not another Anti-DPRK thread.

Kim Il Sung was a great revolutionary as well as a great leader, having made Juche work brilliantly until 1994 when Kim Jong Il took over.

Kim Jung Il is not his father, He is faced with sanctions and a constant threat of war by the americans, so really how much can he do?

All these lies about death camps etc are so false, I mean where do they come from? Imperialist countries thats where, so how could you possibly beleive it, I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.

[Comrade Don]

Argh not another Anti-DPRK thread.

Kim Il Sung was a great revolutionary as well as a great leader, having made Juche work brilliantly until 1994 when Kim Jong Il took over.

Kim Jung Il is not his father, He is faced with sanctions and a constant threat of war by the americans, so really how much can he do?

All these lies about death camps etc are so false, I mean where do they come from? Imperialist countries thats where, so how could you possibly beleive it, I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.

[Comrade Don]

Argh not another Anti-DPRK thread.

Kim Il Sung was a great revolutionary as well as a great leader, having made Juche work brilliantly until 1994 when Kim Jong Il took over.

Kim Jung Il is not his father, He is faced with sanctions and a constant threat of war by the americans, so really how much can he do?

All these lies about death camps etc are so false, I mean where do they come from? Imperialist countries thats where, so how could you possibly beleive it, I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.

[Tekun]

Kim Ill Sung was a good revolutionary
But as a leader, he ranks among the worst in history
Not only is he revered throughout the country, but he developed a cult of personality which makes him god in that country
In addition, his mismanagement of the country was disastrous (it has only been exacerbated by Kim Jung Ill)
Evidence of this can be seen in how backwards NK society is
Lack of food, electricity, water, and basic survival supplies....
Most ppl living in Pyongyang are priviliged and affluent in NK terms
However, outside Pyongyang its an entirely different story
Our members have provided many studies and essays which should prove sufficient in answering any doubts or questions of reality in NK
The search function helps :wacko:



I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.

Of course the DPRK isn&#39;t gonna let u see the grim reality of life outside Pyongyang
What do u think, they&#39;re just gonna open the doors to the detention camps, and let u film? :lol:
Every gov does that...they show u the positive side of their policy, but they hide their faults in order to gain supporters
Their intentions are too show all those who visit and those outside the country, that NK is an efficient and just state, they want to spread propaganda by showing ya the good side of NK
So all the farms that are visited by tourists are in good, working, and efficient shape
I doubt that the party or tourism services would allow u to freely travel the country, looking for grim experiences or demoralized Koreans
The KFA might have organized the trip, but the DPRK controlled and supervised it



He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps

First off, I highly doubt that half of the country is in concentration camps
If this were so, since most of the country labors as farmers, there would be absolutely no food because almost all those outside Pyongyang toil as farmers which harvest the nation&#39;s food
Half of the population in concentration camps is an exaggeration that is suggested by the capitalists
I&#39;ve heard, from certain sources, that there are about 200,000 in prison camps
Most are political prisoners and outspoken citizens that disagree with the party
In addition...
I wouldn&#39;t go as far as saying there are concentration camps per se (concentration camps suggest a Nazi style genocidal camp)
Rather, they&#39;re prison camps which have thousands of political prisoners
What goes on in these camps is debateable, but the fact of the matter is that they exist
In addition to this human abuse, the poverty in the rural regions of that country imprisons most into a life of misery and suffering
Life in NK is, in a word, terrible for those outside Pyongyang



A good source of info: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/no...transcript.html (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/northkorea/transcript.html)

Info on a good independent film:
http://www.twn.org/nkorea.html

[Tekun]

Kim Ill Sung was a good revolutionary
But as a leader, he ranks among the worst in history
Not only is he revered throughout the country, but he developed a cult of personality which makes him god in that country
In addition, his mismanagement of the country was disastrous (it has only been exacerbated by Kim Jung Ill)
Evidence of this can be seen in how backwards NK society is
Lack of food, electricity, water, and basic survival supplies....
Most ppl living in Pyongyang are priviliged and affluent in NK terms
However, outside Pyongyang its an entirely different story
Our members have provided many studies and essays which should prove sufficient in answering any doubts or questions of reality in NK
The search function helps :wacko:



I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.

Of course the DPRK isn&#39;t gonna let u see the grim reality of life outside Pyongyang
What do u think, they&#39;re just gonna open the doors to the detention camps, and let u film? :lol:
Every gov does that...they show u the positive side of their policy, but they hide their faults in order to gain supporters
Their intentions are too show all those who visit and those outside the country, that NK is an efficient and just state, they want to spread propaganda by showing ya the good side of NK
So all the farms that are visited by tourists are in good, working, and efficient shape
I doubt that the party or tourism services would allow u to freely travel the country, looking for grim experiences or demoralized Koreans
The KFA might have organized the trip, but the DPRK controlled and supervised it



He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps

First off, I highly doubt that half of the country is in concentration camps
If this were so, since most of the country labors as farmers, there would be absolutely no food because almost all those outside Pyongyang toil as farmers which harvest the nation&#39;s food
Half of the population in concentration camps is an exaggeration that is suggested by the capitalists
I&#39;ve heard, from certain sources, that there are about 200,000 in prison camps
Most are political prisoners and outspoken citizens that disagree with the party
In addition...
I wouldn&#39;t go as far as saying there are concentration camps per se (concentration camps suggest a Nazi style genocidal camp)
Rather, they&#39;re prison camps which have thousands of political prisoners
What goes on in these camps is debateable, but the fact of the matter is that they exist
In addition to this human abuse, the poverty in the rural regions of that country imprisons most into a life of misery and suffering
Life in NK is, in a word, terrible for those outside Pyongyang



A good source of info: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/no...transcript.html (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/northkorea/transcript.html)

Info on a good independent film:
http://www.twn.org/nkorea.html

[Tekun]

Kim Ill Sung was a good revolutionary
But as a leader, he ranks among the worst in history
Not only is he revered throughout the country, but he developed a cult of personality which makes him god in that country
In addition, his mismanagement of the country was disastrous (it has only been exacerbated by Kim Jung Ill)
Evidence of this can be seen in how backwards NK society is
Lack of food, electricity, water, and basic survival supplies....
Most ppl living in Pyongyang are priviliged and affluent in NK terms
However, outside Pyongyang its an entirely different story
Our members have provided many studies and essays which should prove sufficient in answering any doubts or questions of reality in NK
The search function helps :wacko:



I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.

Of course the DPRK isn&#39;t gonna let u see the grim reality of life outside Pyongyang
What do u think, they&#39;re just gonna open the doors to the detention camps, and let u film? :lol:
Every gov does that...they show u the positive side of their policy, but they hide their faults in order to gain supporters
Their intentions are too show all those who visit and those outside the country, that NK is an efficient and just state, they want to spread propaganda by showing ya the good side of NK
So all the farms that are visited by tourists are in good, working, and efficient shape
I doubt that the party or tourism services would allow u to freely travel the country, looking for grim experiences or demoralized Koreans
The KFA might have organized the trip, but the DPRK controlled and supervised it



He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps

First off, I highly doubt that half of the country is in concentration camps
If this were so, since most of the country labors as farmers, there would be absolutely no food because almost all those outside Pyongyang toil as farmers which harvest the nation&#39;s food
Half of the population in concentration camps is an exaggeration that is suggested by the capitalists
I&#39;ve heard, from certain sources, that there are about 200,000 in prison camps
Most are political prisoners and outspoken citizens that disagree with the party
In addition...
I wouldn&#39;t go as far as saying there are concentration camps per se (concentration camps suggest a Nazi style genocidal camp)
Rather, they&#39;re prison camps which have thousands of political prisoners
What goes on in these camps is debateable, but the fact of the matter is that they exist
In addition to this human abuse, the poverty in the rural regions of that country imprisons most into a life of misery and suffering
Life in NK is, in a word, terrible for those outside Pyongyang



A good source of info: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/no...transcript.html (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/northkorea/transcript.html)

Info on a good independent film:
http://www.twn.org/nkorea.html

[FidelCastro]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 04:57 PM
Kim Ill Sung was a good revolutionary
But as a leader, he ranks among the worst in history
Not only is he revered throughout the country, but he developed a cult of personality which makes him god in that country
In addition, his mismanagement of the country was disastrous (it has only been exacerbated by Kim Jung Ill)
Evidence of this can be seen in how backwards NK society is
Lack of food, electricity, water, and basic survival supplies....
Most ppl living in Pyongyang are priviliged and affluent in NK terms
However, outside Pyongyang its an entirely different story
Our members have provided many studies and essays which should prove sufficient in answering any doubts or questions of reality in NK
The search function helps :wacko:



I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.

Of course the DPRK isn&#39;t gonna let u see the grim reality of life outside Pyongyang
What do u think, they&#39;re just gonna open the doors to the detention camps, and let u film? :lol:
Every gov does that...they show u the positive side of their policy, but they hide their faults in order to gain supporters
Their intentions are too show all those who visit and those outside the country, that NK is an efficient and just state, they want to spread propaganda by showing ya the good side of NK
So all the farms that are visited by tourists are in good, working, and efficient shape
I doubt that the party or tourism services would allow u to freely travel the country, looking for grim experiences or demoralized Koreans
The KFA might have organized the trip, but the DPRK controlled and supervised it



He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps

First off, I highly doubt that half of the country is in concentration camps
If this were so, since most of the country labors as farmers, there would be absolutely no food because almost all those outside Pyongyang toil as farmers which harvest the nation&#39;s food
Half of the population in concentration camps is an exaggeration that is suggested by the capitalists
I&#39;ve heard, from certain sources, that there are about 200,000 in prison camps
Most are political prisoners and outspoken citizens that disagree with the party
In addition...
I wouldn&#39;t go as far as saying there are concentration camps per se (concentration camps suggest a Nazi style genocidal camp)
Rather, they&#39;re prison camps which have thousands of political prisoners
What goes on in these camps is debateable, but the fact of the matter is that they exist
In addition to this human abuse, the poverty in the rural regions of that country imprisons most into a life of misery and suffering
Life in NK is, in a word, terrible for those outside Pyongyang



A good source of info: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/no...transcript.html (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/northkorea/transcript.html)

Info on a good independent film:
http://www.twn.org/nkorea.html
Okay, but at least, Kim Il Sung was charasmatic, and somewhat attractive in his early days if I do say so myself. What I find odd, is the Juche is a system based around self-reliance yet Communism is about the group. Anyways, he&#39;s brutal, GOD DAMN, is it just me or do none of the leaders seem to have any value for human life?

[FidelCastro]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 04:57 PM
Kim Ill Sung was a good revolutionary
But as a leader, he ranks among the worst in history
Not only is he revered throughout the country, but he developed a cult of personality which makes him god in that country
In addition, his mismanagement of the country was disastrous (it has only been exacerbated by Kim Jung Ill)
Evidence of this can be seen in how backwards NK society is
Lack of food, electricity, water, and basic survival supplies....
Most ppl living in Pyongyang are priviliged and affluent in NK terms
However, outside Pyongyang its an entirely different story
Our members have provided many studies and essays which should prove sufficient in answering any doubts or questions of reality in NK
The search function helps :wacko:



I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.

Of course the DPRK isn&#39;t gonna let u see the grim reality of life outside Pyongyang
What do u think, they&#39;re just gonna open the doors to the detention camps, and let u film? :lol:
Every gov does that...they show u the positive side of their policy, but they hide their faults in order to gain supporters
Their intentions are too show all those who visit and those outside the country, that NK is an efficient and just state, they want to spread propaganda by showing ya the good side of NK
So all the farms that are visited by tourists are in good, working, and efficient shape
I doubt that the party or tourism services would allow u to freely travel the country, looking for grim experiences or demoralized Koreans
The KFA might have organized the trip, but the DPRK controlled and supervised it



He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps

First off, I highly doubt that half of the country is in concentration camps
If this were so, since most of the country labors as farmers, there would be absolutely no food because almost all those outside Pyongyang toil as farmers which harvest the nation&#39;s food
Half of the population in concentration camps is an exaggeration that is suggested by the capitalists
I&#39;ve heard, from certain sources, that there are about 200,000 in prison camps
Most are political prisoners and outspoken citizens that disagree with the party
In addition...
I wouldn&#39;t go as far as saying there are concentration camps per se (concentration camps suggest a Nazi style genocidal camp)
Rather, they&#39;re prison camps which have thousands of political prisoners
What goes on in these camps is debateable, but the fact of the matter is that they exist
In addition to this human abuse, the poverty in the rural regions of that country imprisons most into a life of misery and suffering
Life in NK is, in a word, terrible for those outside Pyongyang



A good source of info: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/no...transcript.html (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/northkorea/transcript.html)

Info on a good independent film:
http://www.twn.org/nkorea.html
Okay, but at least, Kim Il Sung was charasmatic, and somewhat attractive in his early days if I do say so myself. What I find odd, is the Juche is a system based around self-reliance yet Communism is about the group. Anyways, he&#39;s brutal, GOD DAMN, is it just me or do none of the leaders seem to have any value for human life?

[FidelCastro]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 04:57 PM
Kim Ill Sung was a good revolutionary
But as a leader, he ranks among the worst in history
Not only is he revered throughout the country, but he developed a cult of personality which makes him god in that country
In addition, his mismanagement of the country was disastrous (it has only been exacerbated by Kim Jung Ill)
Evidence of this can be seen in how backwards NK society is
Lack of food, electricity, water, and basic survival supplies....
Most ppl living in Pyongyang are priviliged and affluent in NK terms
However, outside Pyongyang its an entirely different story
Our members have provided many studies and essays which should prove sufficient in answering any doubts or questions of reality in NK
The search function helps :wacko:



I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.

Of course the DPRK isn&#39;t gonna let u see the grim reality of life outside Pyongyang
What do u think, they&#39;re just gonna open the doors to the detention camps, and let u film? :lol:
Every gov does that...they show u the positive side of their policy, but they hide their faults in order to gain supporters
Their intentions are too show all those who visit and those outside the country, that NK is an efficient and just state, they want to spread propaganda by showing ya the good side of NK
So all the farms that are visited by tourists are in good, working, and efficient shape
I doubt that the party or tourism services would allow u to freely travel the country, looking for grim experiences or demoralized Koreans
The KFA might have organized the trip, but the DPRK controlled and supervised it



He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps

First off, I highly doubt that half of the country is in concentration camps
If this were so, since most of the country labors as farmers, there would be absolutely no food because almost all those outside Pyongyang toil as farmers which harvest the nation&#39;s food
Half of the population in concentration camps is an exaggeration that is suggested by the capitalists
I&#39;ve heard, from certain sources, that there are about 200,000 in prison camps
Most are political prisoners and outspoken citizens that disagree with the party
In addition...
I wouldn&#39;t go as far as saying there are concentration camps per se (concentration camps suggest a Nazi style genocidal camp)
Rather, they&#39;re prison camps which have thousands of political prisoners
What goes on in these camps is debateable, but the fact of the matter is that they exist
In addition to this human abuse, the poverty in the rural regions of that country imprisons most into a life of misery and suffering
Life in NK is, in a word, terrible for those outside Pyongyang



A good source of info: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/no...transcript.html (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/northkorea/transcript.html)

Info on a good independent film:
http://www.twn.org/nkorea.html
Okay, but at least, Kim Il Sung was charasmatic, and somewhat attractive in his early days if I do say so myself. What I find odd, is the Juche is a system based around self-reliance yet Communism is about the group. Anyways, he&#39;s brutal, GOD DAMN, is it just me or do none of the leaders seem to have any value for human life?

[Comrade Don]

Originally posted by FidelCastro+Jun 23 2006, 02:54 PM--> (FidelCastro @ Jun 23 2006, 02:54 PM)
[email protected] 22 2006, 04:57 PM
Kim Ill Sung was a good revolutionary
But as a leader, he ranks among the worst in history
Not only is he revered throughout the country, but he developed a cult of personality which makes him god in that country
In addition, his mismanagement of the country was disastrous (it has only been exacerbated by Kim Jung Ill)
Evidence of this can be seen in how backwards NK society is
Lack of food, electricity, water, and basic survival supplies....
Most ppl living in Pyongyang are priviliged and affluent in NK terms
However, outside Pyongyang its an entirely different story
Our members have provided many studies and essays which should prove sufficient in answering any doubts or questions of reality in NK
The search function helps :wacko:



I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.

Of course the DPRK isn&#39;t gonna let u see the grim reality of life outside Pyongyang
What do u think, they&#39;re just gonna open the doors to the detention camps, and let u film? :lol:
Every gov does that...they show u the positive side of their policy, but they hide their faults in order to gain supporters
Their intentions are too show all those who visit and those outside the country, that NK is an efficient and just state, they want to spread propaganda by showing ya the good side of NK
So all the farms that are visited by tourists are in good, working, and efficient shape
I doubt that the party or tourism services would allow u to freely travel the country, looking for grim experiences or demoralized Koreans
The KFA might have organized the trip, but the DPRK controlled and supervised it



He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps

First off, I highly doubt that half of the country is in concentration camps
If this were so, since most of the country labors as farmers, there would be absolutely no food because almost all those outside Pyongyang toil as farmers which harvest the nation&#39;s food
Half of the population in concentration camps is an exaggeration that is suggested by the capitalists
I&#39;ve heard, from certain sources, that there are about 200,000 in prison camps
Most are political prisoners and outspoken citizens that disagree with the party
In addition...
I wouldn&#39;t go as far as saying there are concentration camps per se (concentration camps suggest a Nazi style genocidal camp)
Rather, they&#39;re prison camps which have thousands of political prisoners
What goes on in these camps is debateable, but the fact of the matter is that they exist
In addition to this human abuse, the poverty in the rural regions of that country imprisons most into a life of misery and suffering
Life in NK is, in a word, terrible for those outside Pyongyang



A good source of info: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/no...transcript.html (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/northkorea/transcript.html)

Info on a good independent film:
http://www.twn.org/nkorea.html
Okay, but at least, Kim Il Sung was charasmatic, and somewhat attractive in his early days if I do say so myself. What I find odd, is the Juche is a system based around self-reliance yet Communism is about the group. Anyways, he&#39;s brutal, GOD DAMN, is it just me or do none of the leaders seem to have any value for human life? [/b]
Of course you assume that they are "Brutal" but I find it humorous that you get these lies feed to you from cnn and the capitalist united nations.

[Comrade Don]

Originally posted by FidelCastro+Jun 23 2006, 02:54 PM--> (FidelCastro @ Jun 23 2006, 02:54 PM)
[email protected] 22 2006, 04:57 PM
Kim Ill Sung was a good revolutionary
But as a leader, he ranks among the worst in history
Not only is he revered throughout the country, but he developed a cult of personality which makes him god in that country
In addition, his mismanagement of the country was disastrous (it has only been exacerbated by Kim Jung Ill)
Evidence of this can be seen in how backwards NK society is
Lack of food, electricity, water, and basic survival supplies....
Most ppl living in Pyongyang are priviliged and affluent in NK terms
However, outside Pyongyang its an entirely different story
Our members have provided many studies and essays which should prove sufficient in answering any doubts or questions of reality in NK
The search function helps :wacko:



I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.

Of course the DPRK isn&#39;t gonna let u see the grim reality of life outside Pyongyang
What do u think, they&#39;re just gonna open the doors to the detention camps, and let u film? :lol:
Every gov does that...they show u the positive side of their policy, but they hide their faults in order to gain supporters
Their intentions are too show all those who visit and those outside the country, that NK is an efficient and just state, they want to spread propaganda by showing ya the good side of NK
So all the farms that are visited by tourists are in good, working, and efficient shape
I doubt that the party or tourism services would allow u to freely travel the country, looking for grim experiences or demoralized Koreans
The KFA might have organized the trip, but the DPRK controlled and supervised it



He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps

First off, I highly doubt that half of the country is in concentration camps
If this were so, since most of the country labors as farmers, there would be absolutely no food because almost all those outside Pyongyang toil as farmers which harvest the nation&#39;s food
Half of the population in concentration camps is an exaggeration that is suggested by the capitalists
I&#39;ve heard, from certain sources, that there are about 200,000 in prison camps
Most are political prisoners and outspoken citizens that disagree with the party
In addition...
I wouldn&#39;t go as far as saying there are concentration camps per se (concentration camps suggest a Nazi style genocidal camp)
Rather, they&#39;re prison camps which have thousands of political prisoners
What goes on in these camps is debateable, but the fact of the matter is that they exist
In addition to this human abuse, the poverty in the rural regions of that country imprisons most into a life of misery and suffering
Life in NK is, in a word, terrible for those outside Pyongyang



A good source of info: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/no...transcript.html (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/northkorea/transcript.html)

Info on a good independent film:
http://www.twn.org/nkorea.html
Okay, but at least, Kim Il Sung was charasmatic, and somewhat attractive in his early days if I do say so myself. What I find odd, is the Juche is a system based around self-reliance yet Communism is about the group. Anyways, he&#39;s brutal, GOD DAMN, is it just me or do none of the leaders seem to have any value for human life? [/b]
Of course you assume that they are "Brutal" but I find it humorous that you get these lies feed to you from cnn and the capitalist united nations.

[Comrade Don]

Originally posted by FidelCastro+Jun 23 2006, 02:54 PM--> (FidelCastro @ Jun 23 2006, 02:54 PM)
[email protected] 22 2006, 04:57 PM
Kim Ill Sung was a good revolutionary
But as a leader, he ranks among the worst in history
Not only is he revered throughout the country, but he developed a cult of personality which makes him god in that country
In addition, his mismanagement of the country was disastrous (it has only been exacerbated by Kim Jung Ill)
Evidence of this can be seen in how backwards NK society is
Lack of food, electricity, water, and basic survival supplies....
Most ppl living in Pyongyang are priviliged and affluent in NK terms
However, outside Pyongyang its an entirely different story
Our members have provided many studies and essays which should prove sufficient in answering any doubts or questions of reality in NK
The search function helps :wacko:



I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.

Of course the DPRK isn&#39;t gonna let u see the grim reality of life outside Pyongyang
What do u think, they&#39;re just gonna open the doors to the detention camps, and let u film? :lol:
Every gov does that...they show u the positive side of their policy, but they hide their faults in order to gain supporters
Their intentions are too show all those who visit and those outside the country, that NK is an efficient and just state, they want to spread propaganda by showing ya the good side of NK
So all the farms that are visited by tourists are in good, working, and efficient shape
I doubt that the party or tourism services would allow u to freely travel the country, looking for grim experiences or demoralized Koreans
The KFA might have organized the trip, but the DPRK controlled and supervised it



He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps

First off, I highly doubt that half of the country is in concentration camps
If this were so, since most of the country labors as farmers, there would be absolutely no food because almost all those outside Pyongyang toil as farmers which harvest the nation&#39;s food
Half of the population in concentration camps is an exaggeration that is suggested by the capitalists
I&#39;ve heard, from certain sources, that there are about 200,000 in prison camps
Most are political prisoners and outspoken citizens that disagree with the party
In addition...
I wouldn&#39;t go as far as saying there are concentration camps per se (concentration camps suggest a Nazi style genocidal camp)
Rather, they&#39;re prison camps which have thousands of political prisoners
What goes on in these camps is debateable, but the fact of the matter is that they exist
In addition to this human abuse, the poverty in the rural regions of that country imprisons most into a life of misery and suffering
Life in NK is, in a word, terrible for those outside Pyongyang



A good source of info: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/no...transcript.html (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/northkorea/transcript.html)

Info on a good independent film:
http://www.twn.org/nkorea.html
Okay, but at least, Kim Il Sung was charasmatic, and somewhat attractive in his early days if I do say so myself. What I find odd, is the Juche is a system based around self-reliance yet Communism is about the group. Anyways, he&#39;s brutal, GOD DAMN, is it just me or do none of the leaders seem to have any value for human life? [/b]
Of course you assume that they are "Brutal" but I find it humorous that you get these lies feed to you from cnn and the capitalist united nations.

[Janus]

Last I heard, those sources weren&#39;t the only ones documenting it. Many former prisoners and defectors have spoken of those prisons and camps as well.

[Janus]

Last I heard, those sources weren&#39;t the only ones documenting it. Many former prisoners and defectors have spoken of those prisons and camps as well.

[Janus]

Last I heard, those sources weren&#39;t the only ones documenting it. Many former prisoners and defectors have spoken of those prisons and camps as well.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 09:03 AM
is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads.
http://www.kenston.k12.oh.us/khs/tplookalike_new/kim%20jong%20il.jpg

Hells yeah&#33; He&#39;s rockin the Gucci shades and the Versace suit

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 09:03 AM
is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads.
http://www.kenston.k12.oh.us/khs/tplookalike_new/kim%20jong%20il.jpg

Hells yeah&#33; He&#39;s rockin the Gucci shades and the Versace suit

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 09:03 AM
is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads.
http://www.kenston.k12.oh.us/khs/tplookalike_new/kim%20jong%20il.jpg

Hells yeah&#33; He&#39;s rockin the Gucci shades and the Versace suit

[Comrade Don]

I find it rather ignorant that people here bad mouth and slander certain leaders based on their looks, I mean give me a break, Some people really do need to grow up.

[Comrade Don]

I find it rather ignorant that people here bad mouth and slander certain leaders based on their looks, I mean give me a break, Some people really do need to grow up.

[Comrade Don]

I find it rather ignorant that people here bad mouth and slander certain leaders based on their looks, I mean give me a break, Some people really do need to grow up.

[barista.marxista]

Fidel Castro is no revolutionary or communist either, son. I ask you: how much working-class control exists in either Cuba or DPRK? None. And if not that, what is the basis for socialism?

[barista.marxista]

Fidel Castro is no revolutionary or communist either, son. I ask you: how much working-class control exists in either Cuba or DPRK? None. And if not that, what is the basis for socialism?

[barista.marxista]

Fidel Castro is no revolutionary or communist either, son. I ask you: how much working-class control exists in either Cuba or DPRK? None. And if not that, what is the basis for socialism?

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Juche guy
Kim Jung Il is not his father, He is faced with sanctions and a constant threat of war by the americans, so really how much can he do?

I supose workers self-management is out of the question? :(

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Juche guy
Kim Jung Il is not his father, He is faced with sanctions and a constant threat of war by the americans, so really how much can he do?

I supose workers self-management is out of the question? :(

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Juche guy
Kim Jung Il is not his father, He is faced with sanctions and a constant threat of war by the americans, so really how much can he do?

I supose workers self-management is out of the question? :(

[WUOrevolt]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 22 2006, 07:37 PM
Argh not another Anti-DPRK thread.

Kim Il Sung was a great revolutionary as well as a great leader, having made Juche work brilliantly until 1994 when Kim Jong Il took over.

Kim Jung Il is not his father, He is faced with sanctions and a constant threat of war by the americans, so really how much can he do?

All these lies about death camps etc are so false, I mean where do they come from? Imperialist countries thats where, so how could you possibly beleive it, I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.
Ever heard of Camp 22?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world...eryong-camp.htm (http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/dprk/dprk-hoeryong-camp.htm)

[WUOrevolt]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 22 2006, 07:37 PM
Argh not another Anti-DPRK thread.

Kim Il Sung was a great revolutionary as well as a great leader, having made Juche work brilliantly until 1994 when Kim Jong Il took over.

Kim Jung Il is not his father, He is faced with sanctions and a constant threat of war by the americans, so really how much can he do?

All these lies about death camps etc are so false, I mean where do they come from? Imperialist countries thats where, so how could you possibly beleive it, I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.
Ever heard of Camp 22?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world...eryong-camp.htm (http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/dprk/dprk-hoeryong-camp.htm)

[WUOrevolt]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 22 2006, 07:37 PM
Argh not another Anti-DPRK thread.

Kim Il Sung was a great revolutionary as well as a great leader, having made Juche work brilliantly until 1994 when Kim Jong Il took over.

Kim Jung Il is not his father, He is faced with sanctions and a constant threat of war by the americans, so really how much can he do?

All these lies about death camps etc are so false, I mean where do they come from? Imperialist countries thats where, so how could you possibly beleive it, I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.
Ever heard of Camp 22?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world...eryong-camp.htm (http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/dprk/dprk-hoeryong-camp.htm)

[Comrade Don]

Originally posted by WUOrevolt+Jun 23 2006, 10:37 PM--> (WUOrevolt @ Jun 23 2006, 10:37 PM)
Comrade [email protected] 22 2006, 07:37 PM
Argh not another Anti-DPRK thread.

Kim Il Sung was a great revolutionary as well as a great leader, having made Juche work brilliantly until 1994 when Kim Jong Il took over.

Kim Jung Il is not his father, He is faced with sanctions and a constant threat of war by the americans, so really how much can he do?

All these lies about death camps etc are so false, I mean where do they come from? Imperialist countries thats where, so how could you possibly beleive it, I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.
Ever heard of Camp 22?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world...eryong-camp.htm (http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/dprk/dprk-hoeryong-camp.htm) [/b]
Ahhh, The infamous Camp 22 which was described by a so called defector from North Korea, who ironically works for the South Korean government , hmmmm.

Its always worth noting that no evidance actually exists, I mean hell if we listened to what every person said then Iraq would be safe, Roswell would be true, and all the other shit you hear.

Seriously take what you hear lightly, Its the same shit as the americans said about North Vietnam, The Soviet Union, Cuba, and modern day times, Iraq, Hugo Chavez, and China if all places.

If they were to stop trying to get Communism out of the world and focus on facist regimes such as Mynamar or even their own fucking country, then perhaps this world would be a better place.

[Comrade Don]

Originally posted by WUOrevolt+Jun 23 2006, 10:37 PM--> (WUOrevolt @ Jun 23 2006, 10:37 PM)
Comrade [email protected] 22 2006, 07:37 PM
Argh not another Anti-DPRK thread.

Kim Il Sung was a great revolutionary as well as a great leader, having made Juche work brilliantly until 1994 when Kim Jong Il took over.

Kim Jung Il is not his father, He is faced with sanctions and a constant threat of war by the americans, so really how much can he do?

All these lies about death camps etc are so false, I mean where do they come from? Imperialist countries thats where, so how could you possibly beleive it, I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.
Ever heard of Camp 22?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world...eryong-camp.htm (http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/dprk/dprk-hoeryong-camp.htm) [/b]
Ahhh, The infamous Camp 22 which was described by a so called defector from North Korea, who ironically works for the South Korean government , hmmmm.

Its always worth noting that no evidance actually exists, I mean hell if we listened to what every person said then Iraq would be safe, Roswell would be true, and all the other shit you hear.

Seriously take what you hear lightly, Its the same shit as the americans said about North Vietnam, The Soviet Union, Cuba, and modern day times, Iraq, Hugo Chavez, and China if all places.

If they were to stop trying to get Communism out of the world and focus on facist regimes such as Mynamar or even their own fucking country, then perhaps this world would be a better place.

[Comrade Don]

Originally posted by WUOrevolt+Jun 23 2006, 10:37 PM--> (WUOrevolt @ Jun 23 2006, 10:37 PM)
Comrade [email protected] 22 2006, 07:37 PM
Argh not another Anti-DPRK thread.

Kim Il Sung was a great revolutionary as well as a great leader, having made Juche work brilliantly until 1994 when Kim Jong Il took over.

Kim Jung Il is not his father, He is faced with sanctions and a constant threat of war by the americans, so really how much can he do?

All these lies about death camps etc are so false, I mean where do they come from? Imperialist countries thats where, so how could you possibly beleive it, I have been to the DPRK and had a fairly open tour having been apart of the KFA and I saw alot more then regualr tourists, I worked on farms with the ppl and Its nothing like what your fed by cnn.
Ever heard of Camp 22?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world...eryong-camp.htm (http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/dprk/dprk-hoeryong-camp.htm) [/b]
Ahhh, The infamous Camp 22 which was described by a so called defector from North Korea, who ironically works for the South Korean government , hmmmm.

Its always worth noting that no evidance actually exists, I mean hell if we listened to what every person said then Iraq would be safe, Roswell would be true, and all the other shit you hear.

Seriously take what you hear lightly, Its the same shit as the americans said about North Vietnam, The Soviet Union, Cuba, and modern day times, Iraq, Hugo Chavez, and China if all places.

If they were to stop trying to get Communism out of the world and focus on facist regimes such as Mynamar or even their own fucking country, then perhaps this world would be a better place.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 10:14 PM

Kim Jung Il Is No Revolutionary Or Communist

I think we&#39;ve already established that, thanks anyway... <_<
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Fidelbrand]

My position: if a leader does his job well, I have no objectins if he has some priviledges.

So for Kim, whilst starving his people and adopting ultra-protectionism through nuclear development but neglecting the basic needs of his people.... is a fuckwit.

How much saliva I used to defend the Left when people ask me about DPRK..... fuck you Kim.

[Gojo]

Kim is brutal, but one has to be when faced with that amount of pressure and sanctions by US and almost every other country. We all know that we are aware of, maybe around 70 per cent of what the imperialists are trying to pull in NK.
Prison camps? I say why not if that&#39;s the price to stay loyal to what you fought for since the founding of the country, and that is communism, yuche, call it what you will.
The fact is that some of you people think and say that there is no communism in Cuba, China, now it&#39;s North Korea too. I mean, what the fuck?&#33; These countries are as communist as they can be. One of the main characteristics of succesfull communism is that it adapts and bulids it self on the current situation(economical and political) in the coutry. Cuba has this, China has that, NK has that, Vietnam has this; but it&#39;s all communism-socialism.
The problem is that you take capitalist sources of information for buliding your opinions. They will say that China is marching on to capitalism but the truth is that they are just developing socialism with alowing some percentage of SMALL private enterprises. Same about NK.

[RedGeorge]

These countries are as communist as they can be.

Actually, I think they could be a lot more communist. Like having worker control, and not having government, and, for that matter, not actually being countries, which is kind of the idea of communism.


They will say that China is marching on to capitalism but the truth is that they are just developing socialism with alowing some percentage of SMALL private enterprises. Same about NK.

Small private enterprises? I think China&#39;s gone beyond that.

[Dimentio]

In Asia, and actually all of the non-western regions, communism, or rather marxism, is associated as a supra-ideology of nationalism, and initially supported by parts of the petit bourgeoisie as well as the peasants. This is a heritage from the struggle against the colonial powers.

In Europe and North America, communism and socialism is mostly a pluralistic movement/ideology which is both socially, culturally and economically pluralist, with civil rights, equality and increased democracy as marking points.

In eastern Asia, communism and socialism are considered national movements which often are socially reactionary and supported by ultranationalist rethoric, which in part depends on the influence of Stalin and in part on the social situations in those areas. Marxism is seen as a new form of imperial confucianism, which means that the leaders could break their own ideology in practice while upholding it the more fervently in theory.

I am unsure of marxism-leninism actually have created any historical changes of a deeper and lasting impact. Nowadays, the left has moved back as a sub-group of social liberalism [see ATTAC].

[Maynard]

I seriously didn&#39;t think the comment title needed to be stated. To write absolutely everything off as "imperalist" lies, is just delusional or perhaps wishful thinking. China, North Korea and Vietnam aren&#39;t communist in anyway. China and Vietnam have opened their arms to Capitalism, foreign investment, multinational companies and North Korea is going the same way, more slowly.

North Korea is a system, as Christopher Hitchens put it "a debased form of Confucianism, in which traditional ancestor worship and respect for order become blended with extreme nationalism and xenophobia"


developing socialism with alowing some percentage of SMALL private enterprises.

China receives more direct investment than any other country, most of which is done by multinational companies establish production lines there, in the year 2000 for example "400 out of the "FORTUNE 500" have made a direct investment in over 2000 projects in China." They are not small, they are the biggest businesses in the world and there is no conceivable reason for the media to lie about this. China abandoned any sort of socialism a long time ago.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 11:31 AM
China abandoned any sort of socialism a long time ago.
is this supossed to be funny?
I sure as hell find it funny. :lol:

[Maynard]

Yes, it&#39;s hilarious.

A Gini co-efficent measures inequality in the distrubtion of income in a nation or community. China has a rating of 44, just below that of the United States. So, China out of 113 countries, is the 38th most unequal nation in terms of income, does that sound socialist to you?

Does allowing 400 out of the 500 highest earning companies in the world sound socialist to you? How do you explain that? In what way would you regard them as Socialist?

[Gojo]

In a way that the living standard and overall conditions in China would be MUCH worse if there weren&#39;t the ruling CCP.
I think that CCP leadership knows what&#39;s best for China, and if they can&#39;t achive that trough usual communist practice they can have one eye closed when making some exceptions.

[Mesijs]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 04:56 PM
In a way that the living standard and overall conditions in China would be MUCH worse if there weren&#39;t the ruling CCP.
I think that CCP leadership knows what&#39;s best for China, and if they can&#39;t achive that trough usual communist practice they can have one eye closed when making some exceptions.
So when CCP knows what&#39;s best, the country is communist? :lol:

Do you even know what communism is? It&#39;s a stateless, clasless ideology, based on the will of the masses, which democratically control their own mean of production.

China IS a state.
Decisions in China ARE NOT made by the masses, but by the undemocratic ruling elite, which controls for example internet in a totalitarian way.
The masses DO NOT control the means of production. Rather, big companies do. These multinationals exploit the workers, and even destroy whole neighbourhoods full of people to plant another big factory.

Really, current China is the exact opposite of what socialism or communism should ever be.

And your arguments aren&#39;t really strong to argue the opposite. :lol:

[Gojo]

Originally posted by Mesijs+Jun 24 2006, 06:03 PM--> (Mesijs @ Jun 24 2006, 06:03 PM)
[email protected] 24 2006, 04:56 PM
In a way that the living standard and overall conditions in China would be MUCH worse if there weren&#39;t the ruling CCP.
I think that CCP leadership knows what&#39;s best for China, and if they can&#39;t achive that trough usual communist practice they can have one eye closed when making some exceptions.
So when CCP knows what&#39;s best, the country is communist? :lol:

Do you even know what communism is? It&#39;s a stateless, clasless ideology, based on the will of the masses, which democratically control their own mean of production.

China IS a state.
Decisions in China ARE NOT made by the masses, but by the undemocratic ruling elite, which controls for example internet in a totalitarian way.
The masses DO NOT control the means of production. Rather, big companies do. These multinationals exploit the workers, and even destroy whole neighbourhoods full of people to plant another big factory.

Really, current China is the exact opposite of what socialism or communism should ever be.

And your arguments aren&#39;t really strong to argue the opposite. :lol: [/b]
You got one thing right there;It&#39;s a stateless, clasless ideology, based on the will of the masses, which democratically control their own mean of production.

It seems that you have such an in depth analysis of situtation in China...tell me do you live there? No? I didn&#39;t think so.

and don&#39;t waste time and efforts to bring that capitalist propaganda issued info about China or any other communist, socialist, anti-imperialist country. Take a look at the NAM country list.

[TC]

I recently watched a documentry

Oh, you saw it in a documentary? Did it occur to you that not everything in every documentary might be accurate? That maybe basically anyone with a camera, some stock photage and some d-list "experts" can put together a documentary? That people in interviews can lie, or make unsubstantiated claims? Especially, frankly, about north Korea, since westerners seem to believe basically anything about it.

A documentary is less credible a source than a newspaper editorial, they don&#39;t even have to fact check.


on this so called great leader of North Korea.

Yah, so called, as in, so called in the west...its not like &#39;great leader&#39; is an official title that anyone uses in the DPRK.


He rules a communist country yet he mas a massive movie colection

:o omg, you don&#39;t say??? well, as we all know, watching films is totally incompatable with being a communist or a revolutionary.


and is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads.

Oh yah, Mao jacket suits and wide brimmed glasses are just so in this season&#33; :lol:


He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps. These people aren&#39;t even counter-revolutionaries, nor are they there for any particular crime. They&#39;re just they&#39;re.

Right...if the DPRK can figure out how to support a prison population of 50% without, you know, total economic collapse in a day, they must know something that no one else does.

I mean, just think about how much sense this makes. If 50% of the population were prisoners, who is going to guard them, the other 50% of the population? Whose going to perform the transport and functional tasks to keep a prison system like that running? For every prisoner you&#39;d need several non-prisoners to maintain them, and if fifty percent are prisoners, the numbers don&#39;t add up, do they?

[Comrade Don]

Finally some level headed COMMUNISTS , I still dont understand how some people on this forum can say shit, without seeing it first hand.

It really blows my mind.

[Jazzratt]

Having not seen this stuff first hand I couldn&#39;t say whether it is right or wrong
But...
I remain a sceptic as far as this is concerned. The guy is after all, well, a guy. Or to put it another way, I&#39;m sceptical because this &#39;communist&#39; nation has a single leader. Single leaders tend to put me on edge.

[Comrade Don]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 11:18 PM
Having not seen this stuff first hand I couldn&#39;t say whether it is right or wrong
But...
I remain a sceptic as far as this is concerned. The guy is after all, well, a guy. Or to put it another way, I&#39;m sceptical because this &#39;communist&#39; nation has a single leader. Single leaders tend to put me on edge.
Well to be more accurate the DPRK consists of elections wheter ppl beleive it or not, The decision making comes from The Supreme People&#39;s Assembly. There is a total of 687 seats which are divided among 3 parties: Workers Party of Korea, Korean Social Democratic Party, and the Chondoist Chongu Party.

The highest official post within the country is not Kim Jong Il as many people think but rather rests in the hands of the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme People&#39;s Assembly which is elected by the assembly for a 5 year term, the current Chairman is Kim Jong Nam who has held the position since 1998.

While people may beleive what they read from such imperialist sites such as wikipedia and cnn, the reality of the matter is that Kim Jong Il holds several positions within the Korean Workers Party and the Military, But he does not really make all the decisions, He is loved and admired simply because of what his family has sacrificed to give the korean people a true paradise, Kim Jong Il has aslo served in the military and was sent to work in the feilds for several years when he was younger.

So in closing I really wish that people would take the time and money to learn about such things before simply throwing ignorant statements around, If you want the truth about North Korea then go there, your movement is not as restricted as you would think, I was given more slack then when I was in Cuba so I think I know what Iam talking about.

Don.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 25 2006, 04:25 AM

So in closing I really wish that people would take the time and money to learn about such things before simply throwing ignorant statements around, If you want the truth about North Korea then go there, your movement is not as restricted as you would think, I was given more slack then when I was in Cuba so I think I know what Iam talking about.

Don.
And now, THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO DISCUSS because the FACTS have been brought up and those of you who still seek for knowledge on wikipedia or any other simmilar capitalist junk please stop wasting your time.

[which doctor]

Wikipedia isn&#39;t a capitalist or imperialist site.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 25 2006, 11:54 AM
Wikipedia isn&#39;t a capitalist or imperialist site.
Yeah, I thought so too, unitl I read the article about Cuba.
But if you&#39;re stupid enough to buy that shit...

[FidelCastro]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 08:43 PM

I recently watched a documentry

Oh, you saw it in a documentary? Did it occur to you that not everything in every documentary might be accurate? That maybe basically anyone with a camera, some stock photage and some d-list "experts" can put together a documentary? That people in interviews can lie, or make unsubstantiated claims? Especially, frankly, about north Korea, since westerners seem to believe basically anything about it.

A documentary is less credible a source than a newspaper editorial, they don&#39;t even have to fact check.


on this so called great leader of North Korea.

Yah, so called, as in, so called in the west...its not like &#39;great leader&#39; is an official title that anyone uses in the DPRK.


He rules a communist country yet he mas a massive movie colection

:o omg, you don&#39;t say??? well, as we all know, watching films is totally incompatable with being a communist or a revolutionary.


and is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads.

Oh yah, Mao jacket suits and wide brimmed glasses are just so in this season&#33; :lol:


He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps. These people aren&#39;t even counter-revolutionaries, nor are they there for any particular crime. They&#39;re just they&#39;re.

Right...if the DPRK can figure out how to support a prison population of 50% without, you know, total economic collapse in a day, they must know something that no one else does.

I mean, just think about how much sense this makes. If 50% of the population were prisoners, who is going to guard them, the other 50% of the population? Whose going to perform the transport and functional tasks to keep a prison system like that running? For every prisoner you&#39;d need several non-prisoners to maintain them, and if fifty percent are prisoners, the numbers don&#39;t add up, do they?
Okay, that statement about the guards of the camps has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Did 12 million SS soldiers guard the prisoners in concentration camps? no, in fact, there were very few who did as they were part of the SS which was considered an elite group at the time. And just because we haven&#39;t seen something first hand personally, doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s not true. Lastly, 50 percent of North Korea is 11 million, which isn&#39;t a hard a number to guard and transport over years of being a ruthless pansy dictator. The dude is afraid to speak infront of audiances and he wears high heels because he doesn&#39;t want to accept the fact that he&#39;s short.

[Dreckt]

If they lie so much about North Korea, how come they don&#39;t put the same lies on Cuba or Laos? Why are people not dying or starving in Cuba, how come Castro is not viewed as a god or "great leader"?

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 07:30 AM
If they lie so much about North Korea, how come they don&#39;t put the same lies on Cuba or Laos? Why are people not dying or starving in Cuba, how come Castro is not viewed as a god or "great leader"?
"Not A does not equal to not B" simple logic. :D

ADDITIONALLY, In reality, they pull the same lies on Cuba as regards to its human rights condition, food shortage, etc. But as tourism begins to flourish, lies reveal themselves to truth.

Castro is viewed as a great leader for hanging in there. But Castro doesn&#39;t do what Kim do, never protrait himself as a God-like figure, but may be more as a great leader for the common good. See this, it will shit your pants:

clip. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=7zBk0rnlai4&search=kim%20jong%20il)

Grow some brains guys...

[Marx_was_right&#33;]

I beleive Kim Jong il is definitely a revolutionary. Consider this. Our information on that state comes to us from the same bourgeiose sources that control our media, which are controlled by our CLASS ENEMIES. Hence what do we expect them to say, &#39;North Korea is a paradise&#39;? I for one will never beleive their propaganda that North Korea is a failed state.

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 08:28 AM
Prison camps? I say why not if that&#39;s the price to stay loyal to what you fought for since the founding of the country, and that is communism, yuche, call it what you will.
Prison camps are a prettey far cry from letting the state whither away.

While communism may take a certain loyalty to your community, being "loyal to your country" is blind nationalism.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Marx_was_right&#33;@Jun 27 2006, 03:18 PM
I beleive Kim Jong il is definitely a revolutionary. Consider this. Our information on that state comes to us from the same bourgeiose sources that control our media, which are controlled by our CLASS ENEMIES. Hence what do we expect them to say, &#39;North Korea is a paradise&#39;? I for one will never beleive their propaganda that North Korea is a failed state.
His father is. He isn&#39;t. He is running a monarchy therer where relatives takes important roles in the burreaucracy. Guess the bourgeois media can&#39;t mkae shits out of this cos it is just a fact.

The bourgeois media is indeed diabolic. E.g. cuba, very much is misleading.

But for DPRK, I have reservations. My friend went there and was heavily guarded throughout the whole bloody trip. He saw literally "shit" and was unable to do some decent research.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

If North Korea or even China for that matter were actual working workers states, in that they had built socialism, then we would all know about it.

The workers would willingly talk to any western media. The soicety would be open, people could freely travel, which is not the case in north Korea.

You often here this observation about Kim Jong Il and North Korea. Its that Kim Jong Il is the only fat guy in the DPRK.

Western media might be heavily bias against the DPRK, because its is the "socialist" threat to capitalism (hah&#33;). We all know, in our heads, that is not the reason why the media attacks the DPRK. Its because its an actual dictatorship. North Korean Newspapers even talk about Korean "racial Purity" and how disgusted they are with "racial Mixing" in south Korea.

The DPRK leadership is incompetent . Only a few years after famines, they continue to build missiles and rockets......why not build agricultural machinery so all those North korean peasants dont have to do back breaking labour?

If i spat at George Bush, or tony blair, i can pretty much be gaurenteed i wont be shot. I would think twice before doing that to KiM jong IL.

Also whats with the personality cult? Socialism is about the workers taking power, and becoming the domiant class.

Rosa litchenstein posted this the other day


It depends on understanding the nature of &#39;substitutionism&#39; (i.e., the aim to substitute something or someone for the working-class in the fight for socialism -- be it a &#39;charismatic&#39; leader, a vanguard party (one that contains few if any workers), Russian Tanks, Maoist geuerillas, &#39;sympathetic&#39; nationalist movements, etc.).

This is what happened. THere was no working class in Korea = there is no socialism in the DPRK.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 06:15 PM
Western media might be heavily bias against the DPRK, because its is the "socialist" threat to capitalism (hah&#33;). We all know, in our heads, that is not the reason why the media attacks the DPRK. Its because its an actual dictatorship.
No, we don&#39;t know that "in our heads". What we know and think we write and post. It&#39;s simple. There&#39;s no need to lie, we&#39;re not NK gov payed to promote their socialism.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 06:15 PM


The DPRK leadership is incompetent . Only a few years after famines, they continue to build missiles and rockets......why not build agricultural machinery so all those North korean peasants dont have to do back breaking labour?


Because NK war machine is the soul factor of NK&#39;s surrvival as a communist country. The only reason NK has lived to see the 21st century is because of its military power and tight border control. They do that to protect their people from what has happened to China. Though opening of Mc&#39;donalds may seem to be a small and unimportant step it&#39;s the best indicator of a communist country&#39;s passive politics and will to open up to foreign money flush.

[FidelCastro]

Originally posted by Gojo+Jun 27 2006, 08:19 PM--> (Gojo @ Jun 27 2006, 08:19 PM)
[email protected] 27 2006, 06:15 PM


The DPRK leadership is incompetent . Only a few years after famines, they continue to build missiles and rockets......why not build agricultural machinery so all those North korean peasants dont have to do back breaking labour?


Because NK war machine is the soul factor of NK&#39;s surrvival as a communist country. The only reason NK has lived to see the 21st century is because of its military power and tight border control. They do that to protect their people from what has happened to China. Though opening of Mc&#39;donalds may seem to be a small and unimportant step it&#39;s the best indicator of a communist country&#39;s passive politics and will to open up to foreign money flush. [/b]
Yes, but if they eased off the people oppression, and the nuclear arms program, they might get support from other countries in the world.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 02:03 PM
I recently watched a documentry on this so called great leader of North Korea. Frankly, he&#39;s a loser.
If you watched a documentary and believed it all without question, then I&#39;d reckon you&#39;re the loser. :P


He rules a communist country

I&#39;m not up on Juche, but would the DPRK actually even consider themselves "communist"? I think it&#39;s more likely that this is a word that was used in the documentary because the capitalists have made it into a a word that instantly conjures up thoughts of evil and injustice.


yet he mas a massive movie colection

This is roumor. And even if it&#39;s true, it&#39;s hardly a reason to chastise him. I would think that the fact he has maintained sovereignty of the nation under the crosss-hairs of imperialism is more important.


and is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads.

Well, this just made me laugh&#33; C&#39;mon, what does he wear them in private to impress himself?


He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps.

Not even the most anti-DPRK books and documentaries make such a bullshit claim. The number is usually 200,000; which is most likely a huge over-estimation and isn&#39;t even based on any facts or evidence.


These people aren&#39;t even counter-revolutionaries, nor are they there for any particular crime. They&#39;re just they&#39;re.

How the fuck do you know?


Kim Il Sung, his father, was a revolutionary of epic proportions, but his downfall was spoiling his son.

That&#39;s your opinion. Why not let the people of the DPRK decide what they think?


Kim Jung Il also has to be least charasmatic leader I have ever seen.

Well, that&#39;s about as a valid reason of attacking his merits as the Trotskyite assertion that Stalin was a "grey blur" before he became General Secretary.


He&#39;s only given one speech to his people.

I don&#39;t think this is true, but I could be wrong. Source?


Franly, he&#39;s a bit of a tool.

How so? If anything, wouldn&#39;t he be the opposite? According to you, all the people in the DPRK are his tools...

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by Gojo+Jun 25 2006, 01:54 PM--> (Gojo @ Jun 25 2006, 01:54 PM)
Fist of [email protected] 25 2006, 11:54 AM
Wikipedia isn&#39;t a capitalist or imperialist site.
Yeah, I thought so too, unitl I read the article about Cuba.
But if you&#39;re stupid enough to buy that shit... [/b]
man you are insane.

you do know ANYONE can edit wikipedia right? if you are so convinced about the cuban fairy tales of democracy, you should edit that article yourself.

[Raj Radical]

Some people&#39;s blind hero-worship and loyalty to any country that has "People&#39;s" in front of its name, or maybe at one time was genuinly socialist is embarassing.

Its a lot easier to condemn the atrocities and exploitation of capitalist imperial states while ignoring the crimes of our own.

[Messiah]

It&#39;s sad that some members of the revolutionary leftist community are the last to condem crimes against humanity comitted in the name of "communsim" instead of the first. People Kim and anyone who supports his lunatic regime simply give fodder to the capitalists and imperialists.

And frankly, if we continue to support and defend those maniacs, then we deserve to be labled as monsters ourselves. Dispicable.

[Brekisonphilous]

I hate the guy. the majority of the population only stay alive because of aid from South Korea. He starves the citizens and they are really short.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 09:22 AM
It&#39;s sad that some members of the revolutionary leftist community are the last to condem crimes against humanity comitted in the name of "communsim" instead of the first. People Kim and anyone who supports his lunatic regime simply give fodder to the capitalists and imperialists.

And frankly, if we continue to support and defend those maniacs, then we deserve to be labled as monsters ourselves. Dispicable.
well fucking said. ;)

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 01:22 AM
It&#39;s sad that some members of the revolutionary leftist community are the last to condem crimes against humanity comitted in the name of "communsim" instead of the first. People Kim and anyone who supports his lunatic regime simply give fodder to the capitalists and imperialists.

And frankly, if we continue to support and defend those maniacs, then we deserve to be labled as monsters ourselves. Dispicable.
First of all I NEVER said that NK has a succesfull communism and I NEVER said that it has the perfect living conditions.
What we were discussing was the propaganda of those who don&#39;t like to see hotels and factories owned by workers and their everlasting attempts to bring those goverments down.
There are hundreds of things WRONG in NK but there is ONE thing RIGHT and it happens to be that that one thing is the most important one; it&#39;s a communist country or if you don&#39;t like the sound of that let&#39;s say it&#39;s not a capitalist country, it&#39;s not a US influenced country, it&#39;s not EU influenced country, It is a free country, or if you don&#39;t like the sound of the word "free" linked to NK we can say that it makes it&#39;s own politics.

In a world overwhelmed by US influence that is a big thing. :redstar:

[Mesijs]

Originally posted by Gojo+Jun 29 2006, 05:00 PM--> (Gojo @ Jun 29 2006, 05:00 PM)
[email protected] 29 2006, 01:22 AM
It&#39;s sad that some members of the revolutionary leftist community are the last to condem crimes against humanity comitted in the name of "communsim" instead of the first. People Kim and anyone who supports his lunatic regime simply give fodder to the capitalists and imperialists.

And frankly, if we continue to support and defend those maniacs, then we deserve to be labled as monsters ourselves. Dispicable.
First of all I NEVER said that NK has a succesfull communism and I NEVER said that it has the perfect living conditions.
What we were discussing was the propaganda of those who don&#39;t like to see hotels and factories owned by workers and their everlasting attempts to bring those goverments down.
There are hundreds of things WRONG in NK but there is ONE thing RIGHT and it happens to be that that one thing is the most important one; it&#39;s a communist country or if you don&#39;t like the sound of that let&#39;s say it&#39;s not a capitalist country, it&#39;s not a US influenced country, it&#39;s not EU influenced country, It is a free country, or if you don&#39;t like the sound of the word "free" linked to NK we can say that it makes it&#39;s own politics.

In a world overwhelmed by US influence that is a big thing. :redstar: [/b]
&#39;It&#39; makes its own decisions? Yes, one man and his lackeys, NOT the people.

And it&#39;s not free. There&#39;s the death penalty if you damage the portrait of the Great Leader.

And it&#39;s not communist. Really, only because it names itself communist, you say it is. This is due to a massive lack of knowledge about communist theory. It&#39;s a totalitarian police state. I don&#39;t care if it&#39;s &#39;anti-imperialist&#39;, because it is only because it would it&#39;s very last bit of credibility of being &#39;communist&#39;. The people are starving, the people are being put into concetration camps, they are killed for insulting the Great Leader in this one man ruled country, and you say that it is positive because they are &#39;communist&#39;. Please, get your mind together.

[Ferg]

Originally posted by Gojo+Jun 29 2006, 05:00 PM--> (Gojo @ Jun 29 2006, 05:00 PM)
[email protected] 29 2006, 01:22 AM
It&#39;s sad that some members of the revolutionary leftist community are the last to condem crimes against humanity comitted in the name of "communsim" instead of the first. People Kim and anyone who supports his lunatic regime simply give fodder to the capitalists and imperialists.

And frankly, if we continue to support and defend those maniacs, then we deserve to be labled as monsters ourselves. Dispicable.
First of all I NEVER said that NK has a succesfull communism and I NEVER said that it has the perfect living conditions.
What we were discussing was the propaganda of those who don&#39;t like to see hotels and factories owned by workers and their everlasting attempts to bring those goverments down.
There are hundreds of things WRONG in NK but there is ONE thing RIGHT and it happens to be that that one thing is the most important one; it&#39;s a communist country or if you don&#39;t like the sound of that let&#39;s say it&#39;s not a capitalist country, it&#39;s not a US influenced country, it&#39;s not EU influenced country, It is a free country, or if you don&#39;t like the sound of the word "free" linked to NK we can say that it makes it&#39;s own politics.

In a world overwhelmed by US influence that is a big thing. :redstar: [/b]
I apologize if this is out of place but I was just observing that you seem to have taken a defence to yourself. While I&#39;m not trying to pick at you, it&#39;s something that everyone can learn from. If you defend yourself, you end up always defending yourself and you have to take the offencive, I think in that situation you could have done better by attacking his beliefs, rather than defending your own.

[Dreckt]

Castro is viewed as a great leader for hanging in there. But Castro doesn&#39;t do what Kim do, never protrait himself as a God-like figure, but may be more as a great leader for the common good.

Yes, Castro is the president, while Kim Jong Il is the "Dear Leader" - that is the very difference right there. Castro doesn&#39;t propagate lies to the Cuban people, like telling them he was born on a mountain on a shiny day with a thousand birds flying over his birthplace.

[Soviet Militia]

Just skimming through the responses to this thread, and a few things occured to me:

1} Certain people seem to idolize the DPRK, which is beyond me. We should be more focused on our present nation and how we can acheive communism here, rather then admiring others that have no influence anywhere.

2} It seems that the majority of ppl who posted in this thread are very Anti-Pyonyang , citing human rights violations, and a dictatorship. But what I find interesting is that this is the exact same information being told to the american people by the white house, so how could you possibly take it seriously. Not to mention that there is no proof except for the odd defecter which could still be contested as false.

The fact remains that until we all go there and see it first hand, We should avoid slandering them as well as praising them to the heavens. From what Ive seen and of course this is just from what I have read , Is that its not nearly as bad as what the west makes it out to be. But Iam not in a position to say thats the absolute truth.

[Ferg]

I don&#39;t think Kim Jung Il is a very good leader. Not because he imprisons his people or anything but because he just hasen&#39;t shown good leadership skills. Honestly, if I went to war, I would not want him as my Platoon leader. Actually I&#39;d probablly have Mao as my leader since he is definitaly the most talented at Guerilla warfare. Kim Jung reminds me of the son of Edward the 1st, known as Edward the 2nd (who would have guessed?). He was born into power but really had no leadership skills. Edward the 1st while Brutal, and Oppressive (I hate him aswell), had the respect of his noblemen and he did eventually stop William Wallace (who is a hero in my heart). Edward the 2nd was not very good, probablly remembered for his death. Edward the 2nd, was annilhated by Robert the Bruce (this was all after Wallace&#39;s death) at the Battle of Bannockburn, because he could not lead his troops. A good leader such as Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Mao Tse-Tung, Alexander the Great, Hannibal Barca, and Julis Caesar, are able to inspire and lead their troops by giving them confidence in themselves. Kim Jung does not possess these skills and that is why, when the bombs start flying, DRPK will fail. He just can&#39;t inspire.

[Soviet Militia]

I definately agree, Kim Il Sung was a very good leader, But Kim Jong Il seems to have no real interest in communism, or even juche.

Hopefully his younger son will become the next leader because from what Ive read he is a very intelligent guy unlike his older disney land toting bro.

[Janus]

Hopefully his younger son will become the next leader because from what Ive read he is a very intelligent guy unlike his older disney land toting bro.

What? You want the familial succession to continue? That&#39;s another dent in Jung&#39;s image and a reason why many despise him.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 09:03 PM

&#39;It&#39; makes its own decisions? Yes, one man and his lackeys, NOT the people.

And it&#39;s not free. There&#39;s the death penalty if you damage the portrait of the Great Leader.

And it&#39;s not communist. Really, only because it names itself communist, you say it is. This is due to a massive lack of knowledge about communist theory. It&#39;s a totalitarian police state. I don&#39;t care if it&#39;s &#39;anti-imperialist&#39;, because it is only because it would it&#39;s very last bit of credibility of being &#39;communist&#39;. The people are starving, the people are being put into concetration camps, they are killed for insulting the Great Leader in this one man ruled country, and you say that it is positive because they are &#39;communist&#39;. Please, get your mind together.
I&#39;m not even going to bother replying to this bunch of crap, we&#39;ve all been through all this and I don&#39;t want to rewrite some of the previous posts.
And it&#39;s really you who should put his mind together.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Gojo
I&#39;m not even going to bother replying to this bunch of crap, we&#39;ve all been through all this and I don&#39;t want to rewrite some of the previous posts.
And it&#39;s really you who should put his mind together.

You replied to say that you&#39;re not going to bother to reply? :blink:

[Gojo]

Originally posted by Black Dagger+Jul 1 2006, 05:14 PM--> (Black Dagger @ Jul 1 2006, 05:14 PM)
Gojo
I&#39;m not even going to bother replying to this bunch of crap, we&#39;ve all been through all this and I don&#39;t want to rewrite some of the previous posts.
And it&#39;s really you who should put his mind together.

You replied to say that you&#39;re not going to bother to reply? :blink: [/b]
yes :&#33;:

[kimjongil]

There are hundreds of things WRONG in NK but there is ONE thing RIGHT and it happens to be that that one thing is the most important one; it&#39;s a communist country or if you don&#39;t like the sound of that let&#39;s say it&#39;s not a capitalist country, it&#39;s not a US influenced country, it&#39;s not EU influenced country, It is a free country, or if you don&#39;t like the sound of the word "free" linked to NK we can say that it makes it&#39;s own politics.

In a world overwhelmed by US influence that is a big thing.
Thank you Yugoslav person. Kim is the only one brave enough to stand up to the US tyranny in the world and their imperialism.


What? You want the familial succession to continue? That&#39;s another dent in Jung&#39;s image and a reason why many despise him.
Kim is hardly a king. He is the first secretary - a worker. He has a full schedule of inspections daily and is not like our idle rich.


Hopefully his younger son will become the next leader because from what Ive read he is a very intelligent guy unlike his older disney land toting bro. There was some propaganda in the Western media a few years ago. None of it is true.


I recently watched a documentry on this so called great leader of North Korea. Frankly, he&#39;s a loser. He rules a communist country yet he mas a massive movie colection and is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads. He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps. These people aren&#39;t even counter-revolutionaries, nor are they there for any particular crime. They&#39;re just they&#39;re. Kim Il Sung, his father, was a revolutionary of epic proportions, but his downfall was spoiling his son. Kim Jung Il also has to be least charasmatic leader I have ever seen. He&#39;s only given one speech to his people. Franly, he&#39;s a bit of a tool.
I can&#39;t beleive I find this on a revolutionary forum.

[Black Dagger]

kimjongil, do the workers control North Korea?

Why is a state necessary in North Korea?

Why a bureaucracy?

[Mesijs]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 12:42 PM

There are hundreds of things WRONG in NK but there is ONE thing RIGHT and it happens to be that that one thing is the most important one; it&#39;s a communist country or if you don&#39;t like the sound of that let&#39;s say it&#39;s not a capitalist country, it&#39;s not a US influenced country, it&#39;s not EU influenced country, It is a free country, or if you don&#39;t like the sound of the word "free" linked to NK we can say that it makes it&#39;s own politics.

In a world overwhelmed by US influence that is a big thing.
Thank you Yugoslav person. Kim is the only one brave enough to stand up to the US tyranny in the world and their imperialism.


What? You want the familial succession to continue? That&#39;s another dent in Jung&#39;s image and a reason why many despise him.
Kim is hardly a king. He is the first secretary - a worker. He has a full schedule of inspections daily and is not like our idle rich.


Hopefully his younger son will become the next leader because from what Ive read he is a very intelligent guy unlike his older disney land toting bro. There was some propaganda in the Western media a few years ago. None of it is true.


I recently watched a documentry on this so called great leader of North Korea. Frankly, he&#39;s a loser. He rules a communist country yet he mas a massive movie colection and is always trying to stay with with current fashion fads. He has half of his people, suffering in pseudo-concentration camps. These people aren&#39;t even counter-revolutionaries, nor are they there for any particular crime. They&#39;re just they&#39;re. Kim Il Sung, his father, was a revolutionary of epic proportions, but his downfall was spoiling his son. Kim Jung Il also has to be least charasmatic leader I have ever seen. He&#39;s only given one speech to his people. Franly, he&#39;s a bit of a tool.
I can&#39;t beleive I find this on a revolutionary forum.
Sure, so he&#39;s ok if he stands up to US &#39;tyranny&#39;, while having it&#39;s own tyranny. Hitler and Hirohito also stood up against &#39;US tyranny&#39;, so they&#39;re also OK?

A worker whose&#39;s statues and portraits are everywhere in the country, who is glorified. Hmmm, I always thought communism was about the collective, not about one person.

And your two last statements, that they are &#39;lies&#39; and that you can&#39;t believe that someone said it on a revolutionary forum, aren&#39;t supported by you by any facts, evidence, or explanation.

By the way, please tell us with some facts what the revolutionary aspects are about the North-Korean government?

[kimjongil]

kimjongil, do the workers control North Korea?

Why is a state necessary in North Korea?

Why a bureaucracy?
North Korea is a workers state. A state is necessary to preserve the revolution from the Imperialists who wish to subvert it.



Sure, so he&#39;s ok if he stands up to US &#39;tyranny&#39;, while having it&#39;s own tyranny. Hitler and Hirohito also stood up against &#39;US tyranny&#39;, so they&#39;re also OK?

There is no tyranny in North Korea.


A worker whose&#39;s statues and portraits are everywhere in the country, who is glorified. Hmmm, I always thought communism was about the collective, not about one person.
Yes, but we must have heros.

And your two last statements, that they are &#39;lies&#39; and that you can&#39;t believe that someone said it on a revolutionary forum, aren&#39;t supported by you by any facts, evidence, or explanation.
Why are we talking about this? We need to expose the United States&#33; Not North Korea&#33;

By the way, please tell us with some facts what the revolutionary aspects are about the North-Korean government?
Kim Jong il is an elected official. People live free of bougeoise subjugation.

[Rollo]

What&#39;s with the concentration camps then?

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 07:11 AM
What&#39;s with the concentration camps then?
And you dare to wear that red star with a hammer and sickle in it?&#33;

We have already concluded in this unneded discussion that both sides(though it&#39;s really a shame that we take sides on a matter such as this, when we should all agree and support communism around the world) have no real proof because it&#39;s all propaganda and WE HAVE DEALT WITH THESE NK "CONCENTRACION CAMPS" FOR WHICH WE ALL KNOW ARE NOTHING MORE THAN JUST A PACK OF LIES PROMOTED BY CAPITALIST PROPAGANDA THAT HAS GOTTEN INTO A FORUM WITH "REVOLUTIONARYLEFT" NAME IN IT AND THAT SHOWS HOW WEAK SOME OF THE PEOPLE(I&#39;D SAY KIDS) HERE ARE AND HOW POWERFULL THEIR(capitalist propaganda) INFLUENCE IS.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 3 2006, 03:54 PM
kimjongil, do the workers control North Korea?

Why is a state necessary in North Korea?

Why a bureaucracy?
what are you talkin&#39; about?&#33;

why is a state necessary in NK?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;?

why is there a state necessary and present IN ALL OF THE COMMUNIST COUNTRIES...oh I forgot, You guys here don&#39;t think that there are communist countries present in the world today.

how pathetic..

[Schleppy]

There aren&#39;t communist countries around today because COMMUNIST "COUNTRIES" CANNOT EXIST. IT&#39;S AN OXYMORON.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 07:56 AM
There aren&#39;t communist countries around today because COMMUNIST "COUNTRIES" CANNOT EXIST. IT&#39;S AN OXYMORON.
Well I wouldn&#39;t agree that literaly, Cuba, NK...are all on their way to communism.

[kimjongil]

What&#39;s with the concentration camps then?

There are prisons in all countries. Please try to understand that in North Korea there are many capitalists who wish to subvert the gains of the revolution. Please try to understand also there are a great many people living under prisons system in the US simply because they are poor. In North Korea, you are in prison not because you are poor, but because you are an enemy of the people.

[kingbee]

Kim is hardly a king. He is the first secretary - a worker. He has a full schedule of inspections daily and is not like our idle rich.

Except for his numerous palaces, pizza chefs and his collections of movies....


There was some propaganda in the Western media a few years ago. None of it is true.

There are pictures of this guy being arrested for Christ&#39;s sake&#33; Are they all forgeries?

And what makes you believe that DPRK&#39;s news output is true compared to the West&#39;s?


There is no tyranny in North Korea.

Lol.

Ok, as much as I think &#39;tyranny&#39; has become such a loaded word, there is shitloads of stuff that goes on in DPRK. People aren&#39;t free to travel or live in Pyongyang, or free to talk about the government, etc. I could go on.


Yes, but we must have heros.

I think any &#39;revolutionary&#39; hero would be disgusted with the amount of money spent on ridiculous statues and symbolic pieces of crap in DPRK, when people go hungry.

And anyway, is a hero really a hero if it is not grassroots, but given to the people from the top down?



Why are we talking about this? We need to expose the United States&#33; Not North Korea&#33;

We need to expose both. We don&#39;t need to turn the knive and ignore DPRK.



Kim Jong il is an elected official. People live free of bougeoise subjugation.


http://www1.korea-np.co.jp/pk/195th_issue/2003081602.htm

How often do candidates get in with a 100% of the vote?&#33; Kim Jong Il&#39;s &#39;democracy&#39; is a hilarious sham.


In North Korea, you are in prison not because you are poor, but because you are an enemy of the people.

Are you still an enemy of the people if you have &#39;bad communist credentials&#39;? People are thrown into these camps because their grandparents before the civil war were landowners, or because they had other types of &#39;counter-revolutionary&#39; blood.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Gojo
what are you talkin&#39; about?&#33;

why is a state necessary in NK?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;?

why is there a state necessary and present IN ALL OF THE COMMUNIST COUNTRIES...oh I forgot, You guys here don&#39;t think that there are communist countries present in the world today.

how pathetic..

I don&#39;t understand what you&#39;re missing, can you answer my questions or not? A nation-state run by a &#39;communist party&#39; is not communism, it&#39;s a one-party state, a dictatorship, it is not a stateless or classless society, workers self-management is an alien concept to North Korea, Kim Jung Il is not a worker, he&#39;s a boss.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

But Kim Jong Il seems to have no real interest in communism

No shit.

[Raj Radical]

North Korea is one of the most miserable countries on earth, with one of the worst human rights records of any modern nation.

KJI is a corrupt dictator with no sympathy for his people.

To all the North Korean apologists, the enemy of our enemy is not our friend.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 08:55 AM

Kim is hardly a king. He is the first secretary - a worker. He has a full schedule of inspections daily and is not like our idle rich.

Except for his numerous palaces, pizza chefs and his collections of movies....


There was some propaganda in the Western media a few years ago. None of it is true.

There are pictures of this guy being arrested for Christ&#39;s sake&#33; Are they all forgeries?

And what makes you believe that DPRK&#39;s news output is true compared to the West&#39;s?


There is no tyranny in North Korea.

Lol.

Ok, as much as I think &#39;tyranny&#39; has become such a loaded word, there is shitloads of stuff that goes on in DPRK. People aren&#39;t free to travel or live in Pyongyang, or free to talk about the government, etc. I could go on.


Yes, but we must have heros.

I think any &#39;revolutionary&#39; hero would be disgusted with the amount of money spent on ridiculous statues and symbolic pieces of crap in DPRK, when people go hungry.

And anyway, is a hero really a hero if it is not grassroots, but given to the people from the top down?



Why are we talking about this? We need to expose the United States&#33; Not North Korea&#33;

We need to expose both. We don&#39;t need to turn the knive and ignore DPRK.



Kim Jong il is an elected official. People live free of bougeoise subjugation.


http://www1.korea-np.co.jp/pk/195th_issue/2003081602.htm

How often do candidates get in with a 100% of the vote?&#33; Kim Jong Il&#39;s &#39;democracy&#39; is a hilarious sham.


In North Korea, you are in prison not because you are poor, but because you are an enemy of the people.

Are you still an enemy of the people if you have &#39;bad communist credentials&#39;? People are thrown into these camps because their grandparents before the civil war were landowners, or because they had other types of &#39;counter-revolutionary&#39; blood.
It is the will of the people of the DPRK that the Dear Leader live in an extrangant house, with a collection of DVDS, ok. I wonder if he&#39;s got the Scarface special edition?

[travisdandy2000]

You watch western produced documentarys and decide that they provide a good view of socialist Korea. The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea, was built from the ground up, after the south Korean U.S. puppet state tried to take over. U.S. bombers reported that there was nothing leaft to bomb in all of the DPRK, during the Korean war. Kim Il Sung built up the country into a bastion of anti-imperialist might that stands strong even after the fall of the socialist camp in Europe and China. You have no right to judge the DPRK on the basis of western propoganda alone, at least take the time to listen to us crazies who defend socialism and anti-imperialism unconditonaly.
General Secretary, Travis Dandy Songun Politics Study Group U.S.A.




http://www.geocities.com/songunpoliticsstudygroup/

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 04:20 AM
You watch western produced documentarys and decide that they provide a good view of socialist Korea. The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea, was built from the ground up, after the south Korean U.S. puppet state tried to take over. U.S. bombers reported that there was nothing leaft to bomb in all of the DPRK, during the Korean war. Kim Il Sung built up the country into a bastion of anti-imperialist might that stands strong even after the fall of the socialist camp in Europe and China. You have no right to judge the DPRK on the basis of western propoganda alone, at least take the time to listen to us crazies who defend socialism and anti-imperialism unconditonaly.
General Secretary, Travis Dandy Songun Politics Study Group U.S.A.




http://www.geocities.com/songunpoliticsstudygroup/
you&#39;re a general?

[Raj Radical]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 04:20 AM
You watch western produced documentarys and decide that they provide a good view of socialist Korea. The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea, was built from the ground up, after the south Korean U.S. puppet state tried to take over. U.S. bombers reported that there was nothing leaft to bomb in all of the DPRK, during the Korean war. Kim Il Sung built up the country into a bastion of anti-imperialist might that stands strong even after the fall of the socialist camp in Europe and China. You have no right to judge the DPRK on the basis of western propoganda alone, at least take the time to listen to us crazies who defend socialism and anti-imperialism unconditonaly.
General Secretary, Travis Dandy Songun Politics Study Group U.S.A.




http://www.geocities.com/songunpoliticsstudygroup/
Oh boy...

Please just do a little research.

Amnesty International, Human Rights watch and Korean immigrants are not "western imperialist propoganda".

[Rollo]

Originally posted by Gojo+Jul 4 2006, 05:31 PM--> (Gojo @ Jul 4 2006, 05:31 PM)
[email protected] 4 2006, 07:11 AM
What&#39;s with the concentration camps then?
And you dare to wear that red star with a hammer and sickle in it?&#33;

We have already concluded in this unneded discussion that both sides(though it&#39;s really a shame that we take sides on a matter such as this, when we should all agree and support communism around the world) have no real proof because it&#39;s all propaganda and WE HAVE DEALT WITH THESE NK "CONCENTRACION CAMPS" FOR WHICH WE ALL KNOW ARE NOTHING MORE THAN JUST A PACK OF LIES PROMOTED BY CAPITALIST PROPAGANDA THAT HAS GOTTEN INTO A FORUM WITH "REVOLUTIONARYLEFT" NAME IN IT AND THAT SHOWS HOW WEAK SOME OF THE PEOPLE(I&#39;D SAY KIDS) HERE ARE AND HOW POWERFULL THEIR(capitalist propaganda) INFLUENCE IS. [/b]
Yeah if everything is propoganda bullshit spread by capitalists then how do I know you aren&#39;t a capitalist propoganda spreading lies? I was asking a QUESTION. Not just saying that Kim Jong Il goes around putting people in a camp for no reason. I was actually wanting information about it. Tool. Oh and CAPSLOCK POSTS R LIEK TEH RAD LOLOLOLOL.

[Guerrilla22]

Actually the DPRK initially was doing much better than its souther neighbor after the war, it all went way down hill though.

[Rollo]

Ok... So there aren&#39;t concentration camps? I just want to get my facts straight.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 07:31 AM
Ok... So there aren&#39;t concentration camps? I just want to get my facts straight.
supposedly there are massive gulags there, the US government has released satellite photos of what it claims are "gulags" you can&#39;t tell from the pics thoughhttp://media.msnbc.msn.com/j/msnbc/1756000/1756948.standard.jpg

[Rollo]

If that&#39;s the only evidence they have no proof. That could be a sport camp.

[kimjongil]

Actually the DPRK initially was doing much better than its souther neighbor after the war, it all went way down hill though.
This is correct. It is however very difficult for socialism to survive in one state. Early communists envisioned socialist states could not compete with capitalist ones. One of the aims of the comintern was to provide aid specific to what North Korea could not produce on its own. As such the collapse of the USSR was a minor disaster for both Cuba and North Korea. However, North Korea has attempted to make itself self-reliant and has been largely successful at maintaining an independent state so far, free of McDonalds imperialism.


It is the will of the people of the DPRK that the Dear Leader live in an extrangant house, with a collection of DVDS, ok. I wonder if he&#39;s got the Scarface special edition?
Is this true - or propaganda? I know Kim stated he hardly watches movies. If he did, it wouldn&#39;t bother me too much.


How often do candidates get in with a 100% of the vote?&#33; Kim Jong Il&#39;s &#39;democracy&#39; is a hilarious sham.
Kim has been groomed from birth for his position. I imagine the workers consider him the best candidate because of this. It also doesn&#39;t bother me that there are no capitalist candidates like in our elections.


Are you still an enemy of the people if you have &#39;bad communist credentials&#39;? People are thrown into these camps because their grandparents before the civil war were landowners, or because they had other types of &#39;counter-revolutionary&#39; blood.
I think Kim and the security apparatus has decided these people pose a threat to the DPRK and thus they are incarcertaed in work camps where they may work for the benefit of the collective without making trouble.


To all the North Korean apologists, the enemy of our enemy is not our friend.
But look at their dramatic 6 rocket launch today&#33; Have you no pride for socialist achievement without capitalists?

[Guerrilla22]

It could be a theme park to, six flags Pyongyang?

[Guerrilla22]

Is this true - or propaganda? I know Kim stated he hardly watches movies. If he did, it wouldn&#39;t bother me too much.

Allegedly, I&#39;ve never met the man myself, but numerous sources all claim that he does.

[Rollo]

Kim Jong Il kidnapped a man from south korea and forced him to teach Kim how to direct. Herd it in some doco but not sure how true it is.

[Gojo]

Will you people let go of the "movie colection thing"&#33;&#33; He has it, he doesn&#39;t...whatever&#33; We can&#39;t be sure just like we can&#39;t be sure for any claim made on this thread. We can&#39;t be sure that what I&#39;m saying about NK is true and we can&#39;t be sure that what those anti-communist guys are saying is true&#33;
The evidence needed is not going to show up on this thread.

[Rollo]

Isn&#39;t telling people to stop wondering about things I don&#39;t know.... Fascist

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 08:08 AM
Isn&#39;t telling people to stop wondering about things I don&#39;t know.... Fascist
I&#39;m simply suggesting that we move a step further in this discussion. nobody has to do anything.

[Rollo]

That&#39;s true. Where do you suggest the conversation goes? About the statues or the palace? :P Either way I don&#39;t know/care a whole lot about Kim so I&#39;m not in a position to be debating what he has/hasn&#39;t got or done.

[Raj Radical]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 07:42 AM

But look at their dramatic 6 rocket launch today&#33; Have you no pride for socialist achievement without capitalists?
Nobody should be proud of any step toward nuclear armament- capitalist, socialist, Juche or otherwise.

[Rollo]

Nuclear weapons should be sent to space IMO. Too unpredictable and inhumane.

[kimjongil]

Originally posted by Raj Radical+Jul 5 2006, 08:20 AM--> (Raj Radical @ Jul 5 2006, 08:20 AM)
[email protected] 5 2006, 07:42 AM

But look at their dramatic 6 rocket launch today&#33; Have you no pride for socialist achievement without capitalists?
Nobody should be proud of any step toward nuclear armament- capitalist, socialist, Juche or otherwise. [/b]
Its either that or imperialism. The DPRK will have McDonalds going up everywhere and South Korean capitalists taking over if the DPRK does not constantly develop its defense.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by kimjongil
Kim has been groomed from birth for his position. I imagine the workers consider him the best candidate because of this. It also doesn&#39;t bother me that there are no capitalist candidates like in our elections.

And this is a good thing?

You don&#39;t that someone being groomed to rule from birth is incompatible to a communist society?

You support hereditary rule?

I suppose workers self-management of the means of production is out of the question?

You dont think the workers would prefer they controlled their workplaces and their own lives?

Rather than being ruled by a hereditary dictator who lives a life priviledged by virtue of his membership in a elite political class?

[Raj Radical]

Originally posted by kimjongil+Jul 5 2006, 08:54 AM--> (kimjongil @ Jul 5 2006, 08:54 AM)
Originally posted by Raj [email protected] 5 2006, 08:20 AM

[email protected] 5 2006, 07:42 AM

But look at their dramatic 6 rocket launch today&#33; Have you no pride for socialist achievement without capitalists?
Nobody should be proud of any step toward nuclear armament- capitalist, socialist, Juche or otherwise.
Its either that or imperialism. The DPRK will have McDonalds going up everywhere and South Korean capitalists taking over if the DPRK does not constantly develop its defense. [/b]
I just cant understand the support for North Korea.

Its just a class-divided, poverty ridden society and a corrupt leader who lives an extravagent life.

Just because it is run a command economy (with an enormous military budget despite the fact it cant meet the basic needs of its population) that rejects US imperialism doesnt mean it is a postive alternative.

[Colombia]

Its sad to sometimes see people support whatever is not in favor for the imperialists regardless of their case as in North Korea. It is really futile to try to defend the North. They are traitors to communist philosophy and I can&#39;t think of one thing actually socialist in nature that is occuring in North Korea. Can any of you supporters prove me wrong?

Our enemies enemy is NOT our man&#33; If this was the case, then then the US and UK should be treated as heroes by the USSR during WW2.

[kingbee]

You watch western produced documentarys and decide that they provide a good view of socialist Korea. The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea, was built from the ground up, after the south Korean U.S. puppet state tried to take over. U.S. bombers reported that there was nothing leaft to bomb in all of the DPRK, during the Korean war. Kim Il Sung built up the country into a bastion of anti-imperialist might that stands strong even after the fall of the socialist camp in Europe and China. You have no right to judge the DPRK on the basis of western propoganda alone, at least take the time to listen to us crazies who defend socialism and anti-imperialism unconditonaly.
General Secretary, Travis Dandy Songun Politics Study Group U.S.A.

Perhaps Western propoganda attacks the north on a daily basis, but then the KNCA defends, promotes and props up Kim Jong-Il as a deity on a daily basis. I would rather believe parts of the Western media, not implying that I believe everything they say.

Secondly, having been to the DPRK, I would like to think that I have some sort of a first hand account of what is going on over there, rather than relying on the lesser of the two bad medias.


Kim has been groomed from birth for his position. I imagine the workers consider him the best candidate because of this. It also doesn&#39;t bother me that there are no capitalist candidates like in our elections.

What, because he has been "groomed", everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY, will vote for me? It seems very unlikely.

And secondly, I would rather a fairer election with capitalists than an unfair one with only one outcome.


I think Kim and the security apparatus has decided these people pose a threat to the DPRK and thus they are incarcertaed in work camps where they may work for the benefit of the collective without making trouble.

Yes, they have been incarcarated by Kim and the security forces. Fairly? I thoroughly doubt it. Just because someone has had a history, maybe 60 years ago, of "unrevolutionary" tendencies hardly justifies working thousands of people to death, does it?

[Wanted Man]

I wonder if he&#39;s got the Scarface special edition?

I wonder if he has the Team America special editon :P


you&#39;re a general?

SECRETARY general you ungovernable squat basement punk whose ideology is based on scribbles on the wall and from random pseudo-leftist lyrics, go read a book for a change. ;)


supposedly there are massive gulags there, the US government has released satellite photos of what it claims are "gulags" you can&#39;t tell from the pics thoughhttp://media.msnbc.msn.com/j/msnbc/1756000/1756948.standard.jpg
Hey, I have Google Earth too, it&#39;s a really neat program. You are staring into the satellite photos of massive death camps, it&#39;s all true&#33;

[Dreckt]

Its either that or imperialism. The DPRK will have McDonalds going up everywhere and South Korean capitalists taking over if the DPRK does not constantly develop its defense.

Oh, don&#39;t worry. North Korea is already practicing capitalism in some places around the country...

[kimjongil]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 02:44 PM

You watch western produced documentarys and decide that they provide a good view of socialist Korea. The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea, was built from the ground up, after the south Korean U.S. puppet state tried to take over. U.S. bombers reported that there was nothing leaft to bomb in all of the DPRK, during the Korean war. Kim Il Sung built up the country into a bastion of anti-imperialist might that stands strong even after the fall of the socialist camp in Europe and China. You have no right to judge the DPRK on the basis of western propoganda alone, at least take the time to listen to us crazies who defend socialism and anti-imperialism unconditonaly.
General Secretary, Travis Dandy Songun Politics Study Group U.S.A.

Perhaps Western propoganda attacks the north on a daily basis, but then the KNCA defends, promotes and props up Kim Jong-Il as a deity on a daily basis. I would rather believe parts of the Western media, not implying that I believe everything they say.

Secondly, having been to the DPRK, I would like to think that I have some sort of a first hand account of what is going on over there, rather than relying on the lesser of the two bad medias.


Kim has been groomed from birth for his position. I imagine the workers consider him the best candidate because of this. It also doesn&#39;t bother me that there are no capitalist candidates like in our elections.

What, because he has been "groomed", everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY, will vote for me? It seems very unlikely.

And secondly, I would rather a fairer election with capitalists than an unfair one with only one outcome.


I think Kim and the security apparatus has decided these people pose a threat to the DPRK and thus they are incarcertaed in work camps where they may work for the benefit of the collective without making trouble.

Yes, they have been incarcarated by Kim and the security forces. Fairly? I thoroughly doubt it. Just because someone has had a history, maybe 60 years ago, of "unrevolutionary" tendencies hardly justifies working thousands of people to death, does it?
Could you please share some details of your experience in NK? I would be interested to know why you dislike it.

[kingbee]

That&#39;s a bit of a broad question, to be honest. If you specify, then I can answer.

But I "dislike" DPRK because I don&#39;t think that the state should have so much power as to a) make citizens believe complete bollocks (such as the state news claiming that Kim Jong-Il getting 8 holes in one in his first attempt at golf- and that&#39;s hardly a dangerous lie&#33;) and b) having absolutely no freedom of thought and information: the only news that the people know is the KNCA.

And there&#39;s a lot more to dislike than that&#33;

[Black Dagger]

kimjongil, are you going to answer my questions?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I personally think it&#39;s a shame the state North Korea is in. And the capitalist media use it to the greatest extent possible. North Korea will always be the "evil communist state", and thus, every time people will hear about North Korea, the more people will be sceptical of communism and the communist movement.

Thus, for each day the North Korean regime continue to live on, the more people will be fed with a negative image of communism.

So, really, the existence of the regime North Korean regime is not only bad for the population there, but also for the wider communist movement.

[cccpcommie]

Originally posted by Raj [email protected] 4 2006, 11:20 PM
North Korea is one of the most miserable countries on earth, with one of the worst human rights records of any modern nation.

KJI is a corrupt dictator with no sympathy for his people.

To all the North Korean apologists, the enemy of our enemy is not our friend.
correct...but do we take actions into our hands or do we let america try to do it... <_<..i say if we tried for a change..we wouldnt kill as much..hopefully none at all..

[kimjongil]

QUOTE (kimjongil)
Kim has been groomed from birth for his position. I imagine the workers consider him the best candidate because of this. It also doesn&#39;t bother me that there are no capitalist candidates like in our elections.



And this is a good thing?
A leader is necessary for a socialist government to run in a capitalist world? Otherwise what will hold it together?


You don&#39;t that someone being groomed to rule from birth is incompatible to a communist society?
It may be incompatible with the utopian form of communism, but that&#39;s just it, a utopia, an &#39;other place&#39;. If we wish to implement socialism we must cut some corners.


You support hereditary rule?
No. But it seems this is what has happened and we must accept it. Sometimes theory is different from reality.


I suppose workers self-management of the means of production is out of the question?
The workers in North Korea run their own factories. Kim inspects and gives guidance now and again.


You dont think the workers would prefer they controlled their workplaces and their own lives?
This is not possible under communism. What you propose may include the right to exploit and take part in capitalism. Indeed, those who wish to exploit will certainly take advantage of any loopholes should they become available.


Rather than being ruled by a hereditary dictator who lives a life priviledged by virtue of his membership in a elite political class?
Does this website not maintain an elite politcal class? And this is run by non-Stalinists&#33; If it isn&#39;t possible in a website, how does it suddenly become possible in a country?

[Janus]

If we wish to implement socialism we must cut some corners.
How many corners do you want to cut?


Kim inspects and gives guidance now and again.
You make it seem as if Kim inspects every one of them. What kind of "guidance" is this? And why is North Korea doing so poorly with this "self-management"?


This is not possible under communism.
That&#39;s what communism is about.


Does this website not maintain an elite politcal class?
Elite? No. Political? Yeah.


If it isn&#39;t possible in a website, how does it suddenly become possible in a country?
Because that&#39;s not what the site was established for. If you want egalitarian, you are free to visit other sites.

[red team]

You support hereditary rule?

No. But it seems this is what has happened and we must accept it. Sometimes theory is different from reality.

Like a family business I suppose?



I suppose workers self-management of the means of production is out of the question?

The workers in North Korea run their own factories. Kim inspects and gives guidance now and again.

Cheerleading? :lol:



You dont think the workers would prefer they controlled their workplaces and their own lives?

This is not possible under communism. What you propose may include the right to exploit and take part in capitalism. Indeed, those who wish to exploit will certainly take advantage of any loopholes should they become available.

Structural problem. Make the system less corruptable and there would be less corruption. If you have loopholes that means you have a problem in the design of the system which you think could be solved by police methods.

Let me ask you a question then. Who will guard the guardians of the system? If the guardians guard themselves who&#39;s to say they can&#39;t be corrupted? Let me guess, they&#39;re superhuman creatures with special powers of incorruptability. :lol:



Rather than being ruled by a hereditary dictator who lives a life priviledged by virtue of his membership in a elite political class?

Does this website not maintain an elite politcal class? And this is run by non-Stalinists&#33; If it isn&#39;t possible in a website, how does it suddenly become possible in a country?

This website is but a few of many websites in a network of many self sufficient nodes. There is no central node. If one node gets blown to bits the network still functions. Unlike what the North Korean regime have there is no central node of authority which could be corrupted. Why do you think benevolent monarchies fail. Structural problems. The centralization of power leads to a weakness of corruptability of a central authority which directs the critical subsystems of the entire structure. Who do you think would be attracted to such a big fat loophole?

[Rollo]

Watched some show today and apparently all the statues were put up by Kim Jung Il of his father because he was in so much greif. He ordered somethinglike 24K statues and monuments to be built in his fathers name.

[kimjongil]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 08:10 AM
Watched some show today and apparently all the statues were put up by Kim Jung Il of his father because he was in so much greif. He ordered somethinglike 24K statues and monuments to be built in his fathers name.
But this is the wish of the Korean people to immortalise the Great Leader?


Like a family business I suppose?
There is no capitalist business in North Korea. Kim Jong Il and his father are synonymous with the Korea people.


Cheerleading?
No Kim Jong Il is very wise and multitalented. Look at my signature.


Structural problem. Make the system less corruptable and there would be less corruption. If you have loopholes that means you have a problem in the design of the system which you think could be solved by police methods.

Let me ask you a question then. Who will guard the guardians of the system? If the guardians guard themselves who&#39;s to say they can&#39;t be corrupted? Let me guess, they&#39;re superhuman creatures with special powers of incorruptability.

The Guardians of the system are the Korean workers and the Peoples Army of the DPRK. But no, Kim Jong Il is no superman.


This website is but a few of many websites in a network of many self sufficient nodes. There is no central node. If one node gets blown to bits the network still functions. Unlike what the North Korean regime have there is no central node of authority which could be corrupted. Why do you think benevolent monarchies fail. Structural problems. The centralization of power leads to a weakness of corruptability of a central authority which directs the critical subsystems of the entire structure. Who do you think would be attracted to such a big fat loophole
The North Korean system is not of course perfect communism according to the Marxian system. Its dialectic assumes the multifacted nature of the Marxist-Leninist progression towards communism along de-systematised lines. You are assuming the Koreans cannot achieve communism under the system of Marxism-Leninism. This is innacurate assumption.

[Rollo]

I was defending kim jong and his father with my post. Sung didn&#39;t try to make himself look like a god. His son and the korean people did.

[Janus]

But this is the wish of the Korean people to immortalise the Great Leader?
Yeah...or maybe that&#39;s just what the "great leader" thinks.


Kim Jong Il and his father are synonymous with the Korea people.
So Jung and Sung are the people now? :lol:


His son and the korean people did.
More like his son and the bureaucrats.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 06:48 AM
The North Korean system is not of course perfect communism according to the Marxian system. Its dialectic assumes the multifacted nature of the Marxist-Leninist progression towards communism along de-systematised lines. You are assuming the Koreans cannot achieve communism under the system of Marxism-Leninism. This is innacurate assumption.
The Korean Workers Party abandoned Marxism-Leninism for Juche, an idealogy deemed superior to Marxism-Leninism.

No, they will never become a truly communist society with Juche.

[kingbee]

No Kim Jong Il is very wise and multitalented. Look at my signature.

Yeah, according to north Korean propoganda he got 11 holes in one in his first ever game of golf....

[ack]

Good job stating the obvious. You get bonus points for that.

[afrikaNOW]

What is Juche?Everyone says it but never explains

[Janus]

The official ideology of North Korea.

Check out the Wikipedia site on it.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 11 2006, 04:29 PM
The Korean Workers Party abandoned Marxism-Leninism for Juche, an idealogy deemed superior to Marxism-Leninism.
False. Ask Kim himself:

http://www.korea-dpr.com/library/206.pdf

[left-nut]

I don&#39;t believe anything the media says about the DPRK because nobody but the the North Korean people can know what truly goes on in there. At least the DPRK is a fully sovereign nation where imperialists don&#39;t have any say in it. I have no idea if the DPRK is really a workers&#39; state or not but I support the DPRK because I am a nationalist first and a leftist second.

[Dreckt]

I don&#39;t believe anything the media says about the DPRK because nobody but the the North Korean people can know what truly goes on in there.

I doubt even they are aware of what is going on with their government.


At least the DPRK is a fully sovereign nation where imperialists don&#39;t have any say in it.

But they have control around the DPRK - aid, resources etc. Just because you&#39;re a sovereign country doesn&#39;t mean that you can get by all by yourself.


I have no idea if the DPRK is really a workers&#39; state or not but I support the DPRK because I am a nationalist first and a leftist second.

Then you are at the wrong place. We don&#39;t endorse nationalism here.

[left-nut]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 09:55 AM
Then you are at the wrong place. We don&#39;t endorse nationalism here.
Turst me, if ComradeChe .com still existed, I would be there and not here.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by left&#045;nut+Jul 13 2006, 03:15 PM--> (left-nut @ Jul 13 2006, 03:15 PM)
[email protected] 13 2006, 09:55 AM
Then you are at the wrong place. We don&#39;t endorse nationalism here.
Turst me, if ComradeChe .com still existed, I would be there and not here. [/b]
Maybe you should fuck off to soviet-empire.com