Convincing A Pessimist

[Tekun]

Comrades, I thought I'd post this doubt and see what you guys can suggest
The question isn't about socialism, communism, or theory

Basically, I have encountered a friend that does not believe in evidence or written explanations regarding events or occurrences
For example, if I tell him that more than 200,000 ppl died in the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and I show him that those estimates are in this book or that book, and they are based on surveys
He'll say something like "well how do you know that happened?" or "what if those who wrote the book are lying?" or "how do we know this isn't a giant lie?"
And I'll say, "well just ask all those who suffered in Japan, the survivors"
Yet he'll still be as skeptic and as suspicious as b4
And therefore, the subsequent points I'll make have very lil influence or weight, if he doesn't believe them

Therefore, if I can't convince on something that happened 60 years ago, therez lil chance of informing or convincing him on class struggle or the evils of a free market

To sum it up, he doesn't believe in written evidence-history-or figues which I try to introduce into a conversation, and therefore the points I make have no influence on him
How can I convince him, or rather make my points refutable proof?
Because, if he doesn't believe my points, therez lil chance of me influencing him regarding socialist principles

Any suggestions?

[Tekun]

Comrades, I thought I'd post this doubt and see what you guys can suggest
The question isn't about socialism, communism, or theory

Basically, I have encountered a friend that does not believe in evidence or written explanations regarding events or occurrences
For example, if I tell him that more than 200,000 ppl died in the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and I show him that those estimates are in this book or that book, and they are based on surveys
He'll say something like "well how do you know that happened?" or "what if those who wrote the book are lying?" or "how do we know this isn't a giant lie?"
And I'll say, "well just ask all those who suffered in Japan, the survivors"
Yet he'll still be as skeptic and as suspicious as b4
And therefore, the subsequent points I'll make have very lil influence or weight, if he doesn't believe them

Therefore, if I can't convince on something that happened 60 years ago, therez lil chance of informing or convincing him on class struggle or the evils of a free market

To sum it up, he doesn't believe in written evidence-history-or figues which I try to introduce into a conversation, and therefore the points I make have no influence on him
How can I convince him, or rather make my points refutable proof?
Because, if he doesn't believe my points, therez lil chance of me influencing him regarding socialist principles

Any suggestions?

[Tekun]

Comrades, I thought I'd post this doubt and see what you guys can suggest
The question isn't about socialism, communism, or theory

Basically, I have encountered a friend that does not believe in evidence or written explanations regarding events or occurrences
For example, if I tell him that more than 200,000 ppl died in the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and I show him that those estimates are in this book or that book, and they are based on surveys
He'll say something like "well how do you know that happened?" or "what if those who wrote the book are lying?" or "how do we know this isn't a giant lie?"
And I'll say, "well just ask all those who suffered in Japan, the survivors"
Yet he'll still be as skeptic and as suspicious as b4
And therefore, the subsequent points I'll make have very lil influence or weight, if he doesn't believe them

Therefore, if I can't convince on something that happened 60 years ago, therez lil chance of informing or convincing him on class struggle or the evils of a free market

To sum it up, he doesn't believe in written evidence-history-or figues which I try to introduce into a conversation, and therefore the points I make have no influence on him
How can I convince him, or rather make my points refutable proof?
Because, if he doesn't believe my points, therez lil chance of me influencing him regarding socialist principles

Any suggestions?

[EusebioScrib]

Eh, there really is not way to "convince" anyone of anything. They can only do it themselves. If he's going to be so nitpicky with things, then why bother? It's rather pointless to have no trust or faith in anything like that. Of course skepticism is a good thing, but with every little detail? Forget him...let him figure it out himself...thats really all you can do!

[EusebioScrib]

Eh, there really is not way to "convince" anyone of anything. They can only do it themselves. If he's going to be so nitpicky with things, then why bother? It's rather pointless to have no trust or faith in anything like that. Of course skepticism is a good thing, but with every little detail? Forget him...let him figure it out himself...thats really all you can do!

[EusebioScrib]

Eh, there really is not way to "convince" anyone of anything. They can only do it themselves. If he's going to be so nitpicky with things, then why bother? It's rather pointless to have no trust or faith in anything like that. Of course skepticism is a good thing, but with every little detail? Forget him...let him figure it out himself...thats really all you can do!

[Janus]

Well, he does have a point in that history is written by the winners and it is definitely possible that there are lies. However, this doesn't really apply to more recent history such as WWII in which it was documented by many different people. So if he really wants to ignore reality and be skeptical of everything then there's not much to do except bring in more and more consistent evidence. Other than that, he'll probably have to come around on his own.

[Janus]

Well, he does have a point in that history is written by the winners and it is definitely possible that there are lies. However, this doesn't really apply to more recent history such as WWII in which it was documented by many different people. So if he really wants to ignore reality and be skeptical of everything then there's not much to do except bring in more and more consistent evidence. Other than that, he'll probably have to come around on his own.

[Janus]

Well, he does have a point in that history is written by the winners and it is definitely possible that there are lies. However, this doesn't really apply to more recent history such as WWII in which it was documented by many different people. So if he really wants to ignore reality and be skeptical of everything then there's not much to do except bring in more and more consistent evidence. Other than that, he'll probably have to come around on his own.

[apathy maybe]

Let him read the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (a trilogy in five parts). I think the part he wants is in the second or third book, but it is all worth reading anyway.

Ask him, to think rationally. Yes you cannot prove a thing that has happened in the past, the world might have come into being only five minutes ago after all. But, it appears that it exists, we think we know we have existed for longer then five minutes, therefore we assume that we have.

By the same token, we assume that things happened in the past before we were born, we assume that things reported on the news have at least some resemblance to truth. And we know that if these things are true (or close to true) that the system we live in is fucked. Simple logical chain of thought. Make assumptions, draw conclusions.

And if he still doesn't want to have anything to do with history, smack him around the head and then when he asks you why you did it, ask "what did I do", deny having a memory of whacking him. If that doesn't convince him of the absurdity of his arguments whack him again, he deserves it.

[apathy maybe]

Let him read the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (a trilogy in five parts). I think the part he wants is in the second or third book, but it is all worth reading anyway.

Ask him, to think rationally. Yes you cannot prove a thing that has happened in the past, the world might have come into being only five minutes ago after all. But, it appears that it exists, we think we know we have existed for longer then five minutes, therefore we assume that we have.

By the same token, we assume that things happened in the past before we were born, we assume that things reported on the news have at least some resemblance to truth. And we know that if these things are true (or close to true) that the system we live in is fucked. Simple logical chain of thought. Make assumptions, draw conclusions.

And if he still doesn't want to have anything to do with history, smack him around the head and then when he asks you why you did it, ask "what did I do", deny having a memory of whacking him. If that doesn't convince him of the absurdity of his arguments whack him again, he deserves it.

[apathy maybe]

Let him read the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (a trilogy in five parts). I think the part he wants is in the second or third book, but it is all worth reading anyway.

Ask him, to think rationally. Yes you cannot prove a thing that has happened in the past, the world might have come into being only five minutes ago after all. But, it appears that it exists, we think we know we have existed for longer then five minutes, therefore we assume that we have.

By the same token, we assume that things happened in the past before we were born, we assume that things reported on the news have at least some resemblance to truth. And we know that if these things are true (or close to true) that the system we live in is fucked. Simple logical chain of thought. Make assumptions, draw conclusions.

And if he still doesn't want to have anything to do with history, smack him around the head and then when he asks you why you did it, ask "what did I do", deny having a memory of whacking him. If that doesn't convince him of the absurdity of his arguments whack him again, he deserves it.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

I agree with Eusebio, but I suspect that this 'person' will be inconsistent in what he/she believes (or he/she will be a danger to him/herself).

For example, a dollar bill (or a five pound note) is printed evidence.

Does he/she believe he/she can buy stuff with it. I rather think so.

And, should that person see a tornado warning in the press, I suspect once again that he/she will respond to it.

Does he/she have a driver's licence, a visa or passport.

Oops, more written evidence.

And does he/she know what an atlas is? If so, does he/she believe that the continents are where we are told they are?

If not, does he/she never go on holiday to any of these places, or use a map to get around the planet?

If not, he/she will get lost an awful lot.

Has he/she got a wiring diagram for his/her house/flat. If so, tell him/her not to believe it and randomly hack away at the walls to find the wires, if they need repairing. Indeed, there are no wires (since that lying diagram is aimed at fooling us all), and the electricity just appears from nowhere....

There are countless way to show that such a position is untenable/inconsistent.

But the above should do, if that person is not just winding you up....

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

I agree with Eusebio, but I suspect that this 'person' will be inconsistent in what he/she believes (or he/she will be a danger to him/herself).

For example, a dollar bill (or a five pound note) is printed evidence.

Does he/she believe he/she can buy stuff with it. I rather think so.

And, should that person see a tornado warning in the press, I suspect once again that he/she will respond to it.

Does he/she have a driver's licence, a visa or passport.

Oops, more written evidence.

And does he/she know what an atlas is? If so, does he/she believe that the continents are where we are told they are?

If not, does he/she never go on holiday to any of these places, or use a map to get around the planet?

If not, he/she will get lost an awful lot.

Has he/she got a wiring diagram for his/her house/flat. If so, tell him/her not to believe it and randomly hack away at the walls to find the wires, if they need repairing. Indeed, there are no wires (since that lying diagram is aimed at fooling us all), and the electricity just appears from nowhere....

There are countless way to show that such a position is untenable/inconsistent.

But the above should do, if that person is not just winding you up....

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

I agree with Eusebio, but I suspect that this 'person' will be inconsistent in what he/she believes (or he/she will be a danger to him/herself).

For example, a dollar bill (or a five pound note) is printed evidence.

Does he/she believe he/she can buy stuff with it. I rather think so.

And, should that person see a tornado warning in the press, I suspect once again that he/she will respond to it.

Does he/she have a driver's licence, a visa or passport.

Oops, more written evidence.

And does he/she know what an atlas is? If so, does he/she believe that the continents are where we are told they are?

If not, does he/she never go on holiday to any of these places, or use a map to get around the planet?

If not, he/she will get lost an awful lot.

Has he/she got a wiring diagram for his/her house/flat. If so, tell him/her not to believe it and randomly hack away at the walls to find the wires, if they need repairing. Indeed, there are no wires (since that lying diagram is aimed at fooling us all), and the electricity just appears from nowhere....

There are countless way to show that such a position is untenable/inconsistent.

But the above should do, if that person is not just winding you up....