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barista.marxista
21st June 2006, 02:15
(From Andy Anderson's history, Hungary '56 (http://libcom.org/library/hungary-56-andy-anderson))
22. Fascist Counter Revolution?

"In all its bloody triumphs over the self-sacrificing champions of a new and better society, that nefarious civilisation, based upon the enslavement of labour, drowns the moans of its victims in a hue and cry of calumny, reverberated by a world-wide echo."
K. Marx, The Civil War in France (1871).

Despite all this, there are, even today, members of the Communist Party who still believe their leaders' propaganda that Russian troops stopped a fascist counter-revolution in Hungary. Let us nail this lie once and for all.

In the Daily Worker of November 10, 1956, the British Communist Party's 'theoretician', Palme Dutt, wrote: "The issue in Hungary is between the Socialist achievements of twelve years and the return to capitalism, landlordism, and Horthy fascism, as made clear to all by Cardinal Mindszenty's broadcast." What a terrible indictment this sounds of Russian-type Communism! Does Palme Dutt really mean that large sections of the Hungarian working class actually preferred capitalism? Of course this is not true.

In our account of the Hungarian Revolution we have not mentioned the release of Cardinal Mindszenty (on October 30) nor his broadcast (on November 3) which Palme Dutt refers to. This was no mistake. We did not 'forget it'. The Mindszenty broadcast was not an important feature of the Revolution. It only appears important when one looks at the 'excuses' given by the Kremlin's apologists for the massacre of November 4.

It is unnecessary to quote the whole of Mindszenty's speech. Palme Dutt and other Stalinist propagandists based their claim of a 'return to fascism' on the fiction that Mindszenty called for the restoration of the confiscated property of the Catholic Church. While ambiguity abounded in the Cardinal's phrases, none could have been interpreted as meaning this - not even when he said he wanted "a classless society based on the rule of law and democracy and also on private ownership, correctly restricted by the interests of society and justice". This sentence might have tarred Mindszenty as God's own social-democratic confusion-monger, but never as a 'fascist'.

Reactionaries of conservative or even of fascist persuasion undoubtedly took part in the Revolution. They would no doubt have taken the fullest advantage of a new, free society to air their views. But such views would have gained insignificant support. These people certainly did not start the revolution nor did they have any influence on its development. Communist propagandists throughout the world scraped the barrel and ransacked the dispatches of press correspondents, particularly those of the Right, for any scrap of information which might be used to prove their contention. Mindszenty's broadcast, coming as it did the day before the second Russian attack, was the best they could unearth.

And even here, they were forced to misrepresent what Mindszenty had said. They were also forced to maintain an eloquent silence when, on November 5, Mindszenty had to seek refuge in the American Embassy. What? Were there no Hungarian 'counter-revolutionaries' who might have sheltered the worthy priest? So much for his influence on the Hungarian masses in revolt. On the whole, Mindszenty supported Nagy. But Nagy was not in control - the people were. The workers would not listen to Nagy. Why should they listen to Mindszenty?

If the Hungarian Revolution of October-December 1956 was the work of 'reactionary, fascist, counter-revolutionary forces', where was the bureaucracy's much-vaunted 'efficiency'? What were the Hungarian state-security forces (A.V.O.) doing during the preparations for the uprising? How is it no inkling of the plans for revolt ever reached the big flapping ears of the secret police? In a state where a dossier was kept of every person above the age of six, the sort of organisation essential to a fascist, or just a plain capitalist-inspired, revolt was impossible. It may seem paradoxical, but the strength of the Hungarians in revolution lay in their lack of a centralised and bureaucratic 'revolutionary' organisation - an organisation, that is, similar to that of their rulers.

What professional revolutionaries would have wasted valuable time in pulling down the massive statue of Stalin, in burning books and papers in the 'Horizont' Russian bookshops, in the interminable discussions that went on in the Councils, committees, and even in the streets?

But on the other hand, what professional revolutionaries would have been able to extract from the Hungarian working class the depths of initiative, resistance, and self-sacrifice they were to show in a cause they felt to be their very own?

The Stalinists still insist that the revolutionaries did not get their arms from the factories or from soldiers in the Hungarian army. All their propaganda at the time stressed that arms were being smuggled to the people across the Austrian border. How could the frontier guards (a section of the bureaucracy's most faithful servants, the A.V.O.) be so feckless in their 'duties' as to allow hundreds of thousands of rifles, machine-guns, grenades - not to mention hundreds of tons of ammunition - to pass unnoticed through the electrified barbed wire and from there to proceed, unmolested, to various pre-arranged distribution points? Little more need be said about the charge of 'fascist counter-revolution'!

But there were other, minor features which, the Stalinists claim, were 'reactionary': the demand for parliamentary elections, the illusions in U.N.O., the dropping of the term of address 'comrade', the adoption of the word 'friend', and the elimination of the Communist Party emblem from the Hungarian flag.

We have already commented on some of these points. The first two demands arose as the result of ten years of Stalinist rule. Not only were parties of the Right suppressed, but also all political tendencies and ideas among the working class itself. Compared with the conditions that prevailed in Russian-dominated Hungary, many of the political institutions in the West appeared as paragons of democratic virtue. Even within the ranks of the Party, all opposition was strangled. Defectors from the party line were dealt with by the security police.

It is not relevant here to make a detailed analysis of fascism. It is enough to point out that fascism had no chance among workers as politically conscious as the Hungarians showed themselves to be in October-November 1956. Moreover, the social and economic conditions essential for the growth of fascist tendencies simply do not develop under conditions of total bureaucratic capitalism. Despite this, the Party propagandists formulated a new dogma following Kadar's return from Moscow, in March 1957. They declared that "the dictatorship of the proletariat, if overthrown, cannot be succeeded by any form of government other than fascist counter-revolution". Like in the Catholic Church, things are proclaimed as dogma which the leaders want the masses to accept but can't logically convince them of. Anyway, even before the Revolution, the proletariat did not dictate. It was dictated to. And it was against this that the proletariat rose. Kadar himself was to admit all this quite explicitly when he proclaimed: "the regime is aware that the people do not always know what is good for them. It is therefore the duty of the leadership to act, not according to the will of the people, but according to what the leadership knows to be in the best interests of the people". [92]

At the 10th Congress of the Russian Communist Party, in 1921, while the workers and sailors of Kronstadt were being ruthlessly suppressed, Trotsky had first clearly formulated the same idea. Denouncing the workers' opposition inside his own Party he explained: "They have come out with dangerous slogans! They have made a fetish of democratic principles! They have placed the workers' right to elect representatives above the Party. As if the Party were not entitled to assert its dictatorship even if that dictatorship temporarily clashed with the passing moods of the workers' democracy". Trotsky spoke of the "revolutionary historical birthright of the Party." "The Party is obliged to maintain its dictatorship ... regardless of temporary vacillations, even in the working class ... The dictatorship does not base itself at every given moment on the formal principle of a workers' democracy ..."

Over seventy years earlier Marx had spoken of the emancipation of the working class being the task of the working class itself. In 1921 and in 1956 Bolshevism and Stalinism respectively set out to prove him wrong. The Party leaders, not the masses, were now the embodiment of social progress. If necessary the 'temporary vacillations of the working class' were to be corrected with Party bullets!

Raubleaux
21st June 2006, 21:51
In Andy Anderson's Hungary, everybody is an anarchist hero. There are no reactionaries (except for the communists, who are all puppets of the Soviet Union).

Yet, just a decade prior to the vaunted "revolution" of 1956, Hungary had a fascist-style government that was allied with Nazi Germany. Before that, Hungary had a long history of feudalism and reactionary Catholicism.

But suddenly in 1956, as we are supposed to believe, everybody in Hungary converted to anarchism and rose up against "Soviet tyranny." Only an anarchist could find this version of history believable.

In reality, the Hungarian uprising was a completely anti-Semitic and reactionary uprising against Soviet power, and the leadership of the international anti-communist movement completely supported the Soviet intervention.

The decision to intervene was a difficult one for the Soviet Union. They consulted Hungary's neighbors, and the leadership of the international communist movement (Khrushchev met with Tito and a representative of Chairman Mao, as well as the leaders of the Warsaw Pact nations). Everybody agreed that the counterrevolution had to be stopped.

However, the Soviets initially decided to take no military action. They believed that the Hungarian workers and peasants would stop the counterrevolution on their own. However, once the uprising began, a flood of emigres from neighboring Austria began to pour into the country.

These were people who had supported the Nazi regime during World War II, and were forced to flee to Vienna after the Soviets helped establish a socialist Hungary. The "revolution" in Hungary gave them hope that they could return to power, and so they began to return in droves.

The uprising itself was full of mindless violence. Active communists and Chekists were being hunted down and slaughtered in the streets. People were being murdered and strung up from lampposts, others were hanged by their feet.

Many of the counterrevolutionaries were well-armed because they had pillaged local munitions warehouses and military depots. Others had obtained weapons from sympathetic sections of the Hungarian military. They quickly turned these weapons against Budapest.

The majority of the workers and almost all of the peasants did not support the uprising. Nagy and others were urging the peasants and collective farmers to rise up with them and to abolish the collective farms. The peasants wisely ignored their pleas, as did many sections of the intelligensia and the working class. The fact that the uprising had little popular support is evidenced by the fact that it took only a few days for the Soviet Union to stop it. The uprising was essentially confined to Budapest.

The leader of the Soviet intervention was Marshal Konev, a man who was greatly loved in Eastern Europe for liberating so many of its countries from the Nazis. After seeing what the Nazis did to Warsaw before withdrawing, he saved Krakow, the historic cultural capital of Poland from the destruction of the SS. When he liberated Prague, the Czechs made him an honorary citizen of the city. Putting down the reactionary 1956 uprising in Hungary was yet another great contribution to the international proletariat.

The anti-Semitic nature of the uprising was thoroughly documented by members of the Rutgers Sociology Department and members of the Columbia Oral History Project, both of whom interviewed Hungarian emigres who had participated in the revolution. According to Jay Schulman of Rutgers, "The Communist leaders were perceived as Jews by almost 100 percent of the people we have seen." A Hungarian Jewish émigré said, "The people connected their miseries with the Jews...The people saw only the twenty Jews who were among a hundred [Hungarian] Communist Party members, not the other eighty."

It is understandable that Anderson would neglect to mention Cardinal Mindszenty up until that point in his book. The fact that the uprising resulted in the release of such an anti-Semitic and reactionary figure as Mindszenty is an inconvenient truth for those who want to portray the uprising as some kind of "heroic" anarchist revolution.

Cardinal Mindszenty was a notorious anti-Semite and anti-communist. Anti-Semitism and anti-communism go hand-in-hand, especially during this time in Europe. Nazi propaganda about the "Jewish-Bolshevik" conspiracy was very popular among reactionaries. He wanted to take back all of the church lands which had been confiscated by the communists. He was also against the separation of church and state, which he considered communist. He also opposed the secularization of education, preferring the schools to be institutions used for the religious brainwashing of young children.

This is the kind of man that the "heroic" Hungarian counterrevolutionaries lionized! If they didn't support him, as Anderson claimed, then why was he set free as a result of the uprising? Why did Mindszenty lend his support to the uprising? Why were his speeches well-received by the counterrevolutionaries, who attended them in large numbers?

After the uprising was put down, Cardinal Mindszenty fled into the loving arms of the imperialist United States, who housed him at their embassy for years! That ought to tell you something about the nature of this "uprising." Eventually, he became a nuissance to the U.S., and he moved to Vienna, the home of many other disgraced anti-Semites, counterrevolutionaries, and former Nazis who the socialists kicked out of Hungary.

If the uprising of 1956 were allowed to succeed, it would have been a disaster for the international communist movement. Nagy and the leaders of the uprising had openly declared their intention of withdrawing from the Warsaw Pact, which would have been an enormous victory for the U.S. and the NATO imperialists. It would have meant that a hostile, anti-communist government would have been right on the border of the Soviet Union, and right in the middle of all the other Warsaw Pact nations.

It would have provided a springboard for further U.S. imperialism against the Warsaw Pact countries. All of the progressive reforms that the communists had instituted would be rolled back (this is exactly what happened when communism actually did collapse in the 1990s). The misery of the people would have increased dramatically. Further anti-communist revolts could have spread throughout the region -- who knows how far the reactionary cancer could have spread.

It should be no wonder to anyone why the United States and the other imperialist countries have lionzed the 1956 uprising as a heroic "revolution." It should be no surprise why George W. Bush is going to Hungary to celebrate the 50th anniversary of this so-called "revolution" this year.

It does not surprise me one bit that the so-called "radicals" on this dreadful forum would join hands with Bush to sing the praises of the 1956 uprising.

Nachie
21st June 2006, 22:15
Anderson never tries to call 1956 an "anarchist" revolution and we certainly aren't, either. It's not about suddenly everybody in Budapest is reading Kropotkin, it's about suddenly there is a crazyass uprising and new organizational models are springing up from it.

What's important to study is how the mass of workers were able to self-organize and maintain a city while at the same time putting up a relatively effective defense.

Raubleaux
22nd June 2006, 08:42
Another thing I forgot to mention was that Cardinal Mindszenty was appointed to his position by the notoriously anti-Semitic pope Pious XII. See John Cornwell's biography, Hitler's Pope.

Raubleaux
22nd June 2006, 08:42
Another thing I forgot to mention was that Cardinal Mindszenty was appointed to his position by the notoriously anti-Semitic pope Pious XII. See John Cornwell's biography, Hitler's Pope.

Raubleaux
22nd June 2006, 08:42
Another thing I forgot to mention was that Cardinal Mindszenty was appointed to his position by the notoriously anti-Semitic pope Pious XII. See John Cornwell's biography, Hitler's Pope.

Djehuti
22nd June 2006, 10:11
THE HUNGARIAN REVOLUTION: 1956

“Some barricades were made of paving stones ripped up by hand by women and children. The rebels took up positions in narrow streets and passages. Those in the Corvin Passage made their stand by a convenient petrol pump. As dawn broke, workers in Calvin Square confronted five tanks without running away. Public support was immediate, with armed rebels having no trouble getting food and shelter. Soldiers, when not taking part in the fighting themselves, handed arms over to the rebels.”


Read the whole text at:
http://www.prole.info/articles/hungary56.html

Djehuti
22nd June 2006, 10:11
THE HUNGARIAN REVOLUTION: 1956

“Some barricades were made of paving stones ripped up by hand by women and children. The rebels took up positions in narrow streets and passages. Those in the Corvin Passage made their stand by a convenient petrol pump. As dawn broke, workers in Calvin Square confronted five tanks without running away. Public support was immediate, with armed rebels having no trouble getting food and shelter. Soldiers, when not taking part in the fighting themselves, handed arms over to the rebels.”


Read the whole text at:
http://www.prole.info/articles/hungary56.html

Djehuti
22nd June 2006, 10:11
THE HUNGARIAN REVOLUTION: 1956

“Some barricades were made of paving stones ripped up by hand by women and children. The rebels took up positions in narrow streets and passages. Those in the Corvin Passage made their stand by a convenient petrol pump. As dawn broke, workers in Calvin Square confronted five tanks without running away. Public support was immediate, with armed rebels having no trouble getting food and shelter. Soldiers, when not taking part in the fighting themselves, handed arms over to the rebels.”


Read the whole text at:
http://www.prole.info/articles/hungary56.html

Djehuti
22nd June 2006, 15:16
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Djehuti
22nd June 2006, 15:16
edit

Djehuti
22nd June 2006, 15:16
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YKTMX
22nd June 2006, 16:06
Yet, just a decade prior to the vaunted "revolution" of 1956, Hungary had a fascist-style government that was allied with Nazi Germany. Before that, Hungary had a long history of feudalism and reactionary Catholicism.


Yes, but they also had a longer history of worker and peasant revolution. The Horthy regime was a counter revolution against a 1919 workers' rebellion that had briefly created a Soviet Republic. So when Hungarian workers see a so-called "socialist" regime behave almost identically to the fascist government they had got rid of, they are more than likely not going to like it.


The decision to intervene was a difficult one for the Soviet Union. They consulted Hungary's neighbors, and the leadership of the international communist movement (Khrushchev met with Tito and a representative of Chairman Mao, as well as the leaders of the Warsaw Pact nations). Everybody agreed that the counterrevolution had to be stopped.


"Everybody" apart from the Hungarian workers, youth and students who died defending their revolution from Soviet tanks. "Everybody" who had an interest in perpetuating bureaucratic rule and Soviet imperialism.

The leaders of the "international communist movement" were careerist scum to a man and woman and worthless Stalinist apparatchiks. The real danger of the Hungarian Revolution for them was that it would not only "lose them Hungary", but it would give hope to workers in Poland and Romania that they too could overthrow their oppressors.


Active communists and Chekists were being hunted down and slaughtered in the streets. People were being murdered and strung up from lampposts, others were hanged by their feet.


Revolutions are violent affairs, comrade. What kind of things do you think the Red Army did to suspected Whites in the Civil War? Gave them a stern telling off?

It's quite understandable that the Hungarian working class would be looking for some "revenge". Violence against the people who have lorded it over you for years is a revolutionary act. The Hungarian Secret police were a swarm of fascist gangsters, infamous for their "ingenious" methods of torture and their prison camps - full of poor, petty criminals, ridiculously labelled "counter revolutionaries".


Many of the counterrevolutionaries were well-armed because they had pillaged local munitions warehouses and military depots. Others had obtained weapons from sympathetic sections of the Hungarian military. They quickly turned these weapons against Budapest.


Almost identical to the October Revolution...what's your point?


If they didn't support him, as Anderson claimed, then why was he set free as a result of the uprising?

The Bolsheviks released many White prisoners in the early days of the revolution, as long as they "promised" not to engage in open counter revolution. The working class make mistakes.


Why did Mindszenty lend his support to the uprising?

Perhaps he thought that the end of Soviet rule would have brought about a "space" for politics like his. He would probably have been incorrect in that assumption, but it really doesn't matter anyway. The Soviet Union had no right to dominate the internal affairs of other people.

We're the first to complain when the U.S Empire does it today - why the hypocrisy?


It would have meant that a hostile, anti-communist government would have been right on the border of the Soviet Union, and right in the middle of all the other Warsaw Pact nations.


You seem to be working under the assumption that we should have been "worried" about the future of the Soviet Union - why? It was a hated institution that the working classes of Eastern Europe and Russia were only too keen to see the back off. The only people defending it nowadays are nostalgic tankies like your good self and sub-fascist Russian nationalists.


All of the progressive reforms that the communists had instituted would be rolled back (this is exactly what happened when communism actually did collapse in the 1990s).

One worker from the giant Csepel plant told a western correspondent: "The West should not believe that the workers fought to bring back Horthy or the landowners and counts. We shall not give back the land, the factories or the mines."


link (http://www.marxist.com/History/hungary1956_86.html)


who knows how far the reactionary cancer could have spread.


In the Stalinist mind, working class self-activity, people making their own history without generals and "general secretaries", is a "reactionary cancer".

YKTMX
22nd June 2006, 16:06
Yet, just a decade prior to the vaunted "revolution" of 1956, Hungary had a fascist-style government that was allied with Nazi Germany. Before that, Hungary had a long history of feudalism and reactionary Catholicism.


Yes, but they also had a longer history of worker and peasant revolution. The Horthy regime was a counter revolution against a 1919 workers' rebellion that had briefly created a Soviet Republic. So when Hungarian workers see a so-called "socialist" regime behave almost identically to the fascist government they had got rid of, they are more than likely not going to like it.


The decision to intervene was a difficult one for the Soviet Union. They consulted Hungary's neighbors, and the leadership of the international communist movement (Khrushchev met with Tito and a representative of Chairman Mao, as well as the leaders of the Warsaw Pact nations). Everybody agreed that the counterrevolution had to be stopped.


"Everybody" apart from the Hungarian workers, youth and students who died defending their revolution from Soviet tanks. "Everybody" who had an interest in perpetuating bureaucratic rule and Soviet imperialism.

The leaders of the "international communist movement" were careerist scum to a man and woman and worthless Stalinist apparatchiks. The real danger of the Hungarian Revolution for them was that it would not only "lose them Hungary", but it would give hope to workers in Poland and Romania that they too could overthrow their oppressors.


Active communists and Chekists were being hunted down and slaughtered in the streets. People were being murdered and strung up from lampposts, others were hanged by their feet.


Revolutions are violent affairs, comrade. What kind of things do you think the Red Army did to suspected Whites in the Civil War? Gave them a stern telling off?

It's quite understandable that the Hungarian working class would be looking for some "revenge". Violence against the people who have lorded it over you for years is a revolutionary act. The Hungarian Secret police were a swarm of fascist gangsters, infamous for their "ingenious" methods of torture and their prison camps - full of poor, petty criminals, ridiculously labelled "counter revolutionaries".


Many of the counterrevolutionaries were well-armed because they had pillaged local munitions warehouses and military depots. Others had obtained weapons from sympathetic sections of the Hungarian military. They quickly turned these weapons against Budapest.


Almost identical to the October Revolution...what's your point?


If they didn't support him, as Anderson claimed, then why was he set free as a result of the uprising?

The Bolsheviks released many White prisoners in the early days of the revolution, as long as they "promised" not to engage in open counter revolution. The working class make mistakes.


Why did Mindszenty lend his support to the uprising?

Perhaps he thought that the end of Soviet rule would have brought about a "space" for politics like his. He would probably have been incorrect in that assumption, but it really doesn't matter anyway. The Soviet Union had no right to dominate the internal affairs of other people.

We're the first to complain when the U.S Empire does it today - why the hypocrisy?


It would have meant that a hostile, anti-communist government would have been right on the border of the Soviet Union, and right in the middle of all the other Warsaw Pact nations.


You seem to be working under the assumption that we should have been "worried" about the future of the Soviet Union - why? It was a hated institution that the working classes of Eastern Europe and Russia were only too keen to see the back off. The only people defending it nowadays are nostalgic tankies like your good self and sub-fascist Russian nationalists.


All of the progressive reforms that the communists had instituted would be rolled back (this is exactly what happened when communism actually did collapse in the 1990s).

One worker from the giant Csepel plant told a western correspondent: "The West should not believe that the workers fought to bring back Horthy or the landowners and counts. We shall not give back the land, the factories or the mines."


link (http://www.marxist.com/History/hungary1956_86.html)


who knows how far the reactionary cancer could have spread.


In the Stalinist mind, working class self-activity, people making their own history without generals and "general secretaries", is a "reactionary cancer".

YKTMX
22nd June 2006, 16:06
Yet, just a decade prior to the vaunted "revolution" of 1956, Hungary had a fascist-style government that was allied with Nazi Germany. Before that, Hungary had a long history of feudalism and reactionary Catholicism.


Yes, but they also had a longer history of worker and peasant revolution. The Horthy regime was a counter revolution against a 1919 workers' rebellion that had briefly created a Soviet Republic. So when Hungarian workers see a so-called "socialist" regime behave almost identically to the fascist government they had got rid of, they are more than likely not going to like it.


The decision to intervene was a difficult one for the Soviet Union. They consulted Hungary's neighbors, and the leadership of the international communist movement (Khrushchev met with Tito and a representative of Chairman Mao, as well as the leaders of the Warsaw Pact nations). Everybody agreed that the counterrevolution had to be stopped.


"Everybody" apart from the Hungarian workers, youth and students who died defending their revolution from Soviet tanks. "Everybody" who had an interest in perpetuating bureaucratic rule and Soviet imperialism.

The leaders of the "international communist movement" were careerist scum to a man and woman and worthless Stalinist apparatchiks. The real danger of the Hungarian Revolution for them was that it would not only "lose them Hungary", but it would give hope to workers in Poland and Romania that they too could overthrow their oppressors.


Active communists and Chekists were being hunted down and slaughtered in the streets. People were being murdered and strung up from lampposts, others were hanged by their feet.


Revolutions are violent affairs, comrade. What kind of things do you think the Red Army did to suspected Whites in the Civil War? Gave them a stern telling off?

It's quite understandable that the Hungarian working class would be looking for some "revenge". Violence against the people who have lorded it over you for years is a revolutionary act. The Hungarian Secret police were a swarm of fascist gangsters, infamous for their "ingenious" methods of torture and their prison camps - full of poor, petty criminals, ridiculously labelled "counter revolutionaries".


Many of the counterrevolutionaries were well-armed because they had pillaged local munitions warehouses and military depots. Others had obtained weapons from sympathetic sections of the Hungarian military. They quickly turned these weapons against Budapest.


Almost identical to the October Revolution...what's your point?


If they didn't support him, as Anderson claimed, then why was he set free as a result of the uprising?

The Bolsheviks released many White prisoners in the early days of the revolution, as long as they "promised" not to engage in open counter revolution. The working class make mistakes.


Why did Mindszenty lend his support to the uprising?

Perhaps he thought that the end of Soviet rule would have brought about a "space" for politics like his. He would probably have been incorrect in that assumption, but it really doesn't matter anyway. The Soviet Union had no right to dominate the internal affairs of other people.

We're the first to complain when the U.S Empire does it today - why the hypocrisy?


It would have meant that a hostile, anti-communist government would have been right on the border of the Soviet Union, and right in the middle of all the other Warsaw Pact nations.


You seem to be working under the assumption that we should have been "worried" about the future of the Soviet Union - why? It was a hated institution that the working classes of Eastern Europe and Russia were only too keen to see the back off. The only people defending it nowadays are nostalgic tankies like your good self and sub-fascist Russian nationalists.


All of the progressive reforms that the communists had instituted would be rolled back (this is exactly what happened when communism actually did collapse in the 1990s).

One worker from the giant Csepel plant told a western correspondent: "The West should not believe that the workers fought to bring back Horthy or the landowners and counts. We shall not give back the land, the factories or the mines."


link (http://www.marxist.com/History/hungary1956_86.html)


who knows how far the reactionary cancer could have spread.


In the Stalinist mind, working class self-activity, people making their own history without generals and "general secretaries", is a "reactionary cancer".

Mesijs
22nd June 2006, 20:58
It's unbelievable that a person on this forum sees a popular uprising as some sort of fascist or reactionary conspiracy.

Also it's painfully ironic that Raubleaux thinks it's a good reason for the USSR to invade Hungary because there would be a non Warsaw pact nation in the middle of Warsaw pact nations. That's pure 'realpolitik', waging war on other countries to ensure your self-interest.

I think it was a hell of a decision to Khrushchev, because if he didn't do anything, he thought maybe the whole block would collapse. But with interfering, he only showed the colonial spirit of the USSR.

Mesijs
22nd June 2006, 20:58
It's unbelievable that a person on this forum sees a popular uprising as some sort of fascist or reactionary conspiracy.

Also it's painfully ironic that Raubleaux thinks it's a good reason for the USSR to invade Hungary because there would be a non Warsaw pact nation in the middle of Warsaw pact nations. That's pure 'realpolitik', waging war on other countries to ensure your self-interest.

I think it was a hell of a decision to Khrushchev, because if he didn't do anything, he thought maybe the whole block would collapse. But with interfering, he only showed the colonial spirit of the USSR.

Mesijs
22nd June 2006, 20:58
It's unbelievable that a person on this forum sees a popular uprising as some sort of fascist or reactionary conspiracy.

Also it's painfully ironic that Raubleaux thinks it's a good reason for the USSR to invade Hungary because there would be a non Warsaw pact nation in the middle of Warsaw pact nations. That's pure 'realpolitik', waging war on other countries to ensure your self-interest.

I think it was a hell of a decision to Khrushchev, because if he didn't do anything, he thought maybe the whole block would collapse. But with interfering, he only showed the colonial spirit of the USSR.