Debate/mind Exercise

[RevMARKSman]

Question posed: Is communism idealistic?
Some statements made by both sides:



Yes, that's what it boils down to.
Nice in theory, impossible in practice, so every implementation of the system end up with a disaster.
That's what's wrong with it.

I am confident that everyone has something that they will happily dedicate their lives to if they had the chance.

Once the 'bad apples' or 'would be CEOs' realize how easy it is to take advantage of the system, they'd seize the opportunity.

Its justa matter of time before automation takes root, eliminating the need for human physical labour.

So is a dictator part of communism? If not. Why does it always seem to be the case?

"Communism" has never existed with few exceptions which are not any of those 20th century "socialist experiments" which happened in underdeveloped countries

Communism is ultra-democratic, anti-hierarchic etc. nuff said

You don't have to trade in Communism, because you can already have anything you need

The state will be able to wither away completely when society adopts the rule: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", i.e., when people have become so accustomed to observing the fundamental rules of social intercourse and when their labor has become so productive that they will voluntarily work according to their ability. "The narrow horizon of bourgeois law", which compels one to calculate with the heartlessness of a Shylock whether one has not worked half an hour more than anybody else--this narrow horizon will then be left behind. There will then be no need for society, in distributing the products, to regulate the quantity to be received by each; each will take freely "according to his needs".

From the bourgeois point of view, it is easy to declare that such a social order is "sheer utopia" and to sneer at the socialists for promising everyone the right to receive from society, without any control over the labor of the individual citizen, any quantity of truffles, cars, pianos, etc. Even to this day, most bourgeois “savants” confine themselves to sneering in this way, thereby betraying both their ignorance and their selfish defence of capitalism.

I want to get both cappies and leftists in here to engage in a RATIONAL debate without ad hominem. Be considerate enough to type in English, not gibberish, please.

Note to CC members: I am playing devil's advocate and wondering which side is more logically plausible, NOT trying to bring down leftism.

[Dyst]

The problem is not communism, but the people that try to percieve it, and what they are told.

Communism in itself is just the theory of the next, more advanced step in human societies and modes of production.

If one sees it from this point of view, it is extremely foolish for anyone to claim that "communism will fail because people will abuse it" or such. If it fails, and classes exist, a wage system is exist, etc., it's per definition not communism!

Anyone feeling "opposed" to communism is naturally opposed to progress.

[RevMARKSman]

Some say communism is utopian. Is it? Will it never happen because people simply can't be "good" enough? Is communism just a theory as you say? Sorry, but we need better answers than that.

[Connolly]

Yes, that's what it boils down to.
Nice in theory, impossible in practice, so every implementation of the system end up with a disaster.
That's what's wrong with it.

This is complete rubbish.

Communism can be seen today. It has existed for the majority of human existance in primitive forms.

So why is it impossible in practice?


Once the 'bad apples' or 'would be CEOs' realize how easy it is to take advantage of the system, they'd seize the opportunity.

I guess this person is talking about communism.

Well, thats almost like saying those Feudal Lords and pro-feudalists will just take over capitalism - so capitalism isnt possible.

He also seems to suggest he knows exactly "what this system is". Ask him if hes talked to God lately.


So is a dictator part of communism? If not. Why does it always seem to be the case?

The case of what? communism has never existed because the productive forces arnt there - and the existance of a dictator in the first place removes the definition of communism, and socialism for that matter.


I hope that helps, I didnt reply to the rest because they seem logical enough.

Just know this - wherever you got those anticommunst quotes - they really dont have a clue what they are talking about - its regular misconceptions and irrationalities.

[Connolly]

Will it never happen because people simply can't be "good" enough?

Good enough at what?

Greed? Our being determines our consciousness - greed is not an issue.

If greed was an argument against economic equality - existing communism would have fallen apart a long time ago, and the majority of human society for that matter.

It hasnt and didnt do.


Is communism just a theory as you say?

It is a theory. But also can be seen in practice.

For me to suggest that the brakes in your car wont fail tomorrow - is a theory.

But a most probable one.

[BobKKKindle$]

So is a dictator part of communism? If not. Why does it always seem to be the case?

It must be noted that all of the former Soviet States and their puppets exercised harsh levels of authoritarianism, with the possible exceptions of Cuba, and Yugoslavia (although the latter was not a puppet) However, these states should not represent a failure of Communism. Rather, they represent experiences which offer valuable lessons for the future. Their Authoritarianism came from a range of factors - Leninism's emphasis upon an elite vanguard party, Russia's long history of heirachy and despotism, and the material preassures of the Civil war and subsequent Cold war. It is questionable, indeed, whether these states actually represented Socialism in any form - since the Workers in these states certainly did not have social control over the means of production.

Furthermore, if you envisage Capitalism to be a society of freedom, then you are blind to the realities of the system. Capitalism has a latent form of repression - one not immiedietly clear - for it is tied within the Consumerist Society in which we live. Commodities and the output of the entertainement industry carry with them certain preconditioned emotional responses from which arises a false consciousness of happiness and satisfaction. The Monolithic nature of the institutions of Capitalism prevent Worker's from imagining any change more radical then trade union negotiations - a trade union consciousness.


Once the 'bad apples' or 'would be CEOs' realize how easy it is to take advantage of the system, they'd seize the opportunity.

What Could they possibly do? The means of production are controlled by the Soviets, composed of Workers, so they could not sieze them by force - and the workers would certainly never give them up. Money does not exist, so neither can wage labour...there is no room for exploitation under a communist society. This is like saying that feudal lords would try and re-tie peasants to the land under Capitalism - utterly absurd.

[Tungsten]

bobkindles

However, these states should not represent a failure of Communism. Rather, they represent experiences which offer valuable lessons for the future.
"The third reich wasn't a failure of fascism, it was just a lesson learned. It'll work better next time...honest." Who's stupid enough to want either back? Not me.

Commodities and the output of the entertainement industry carry with them certain preconditioned emotional responses from which arises a false consciousness of happiness and satisfaction.
Preconditioned by who? Emotions are automatic responses generated by you own subconscious. You can't force anyone to feel an emotion any more than you can force someone to think (or not think) about a certain thing. You commies and your pseudo-scientific claptrap can be really amusing sometimes.

The Monolithic nature of the institutions of Capitalism prevent Worker's from imagining any change more radical then trade union negotiations - a trade union consciousness.
What's stopping them from imagining it? Is it some sort of consipracy theory involving black helicopters?

What Could they possibly do?
:rolleyes: Here's a clue:
"Soviet States and their puppets exercised harsh levels of authoritarianism".

[BobKKKindle$]

Preconditioned by who? Emotions are automatic responses generated by you own subconscious. You can't force anyone to feel an emotion any more than you can force someone to think (or not think) about a certain thing. You commies and your pseudo-scientific claptrap can be really amusing sometimes.


What's stopping them from imagining it? Is it some sort of consipracy theory involving black helicopters?

I sent you this message quite some time ago, but you never replied Tungsten! I tought you did not love me anymore!

----

You will remember that a few days ago the issue of Cultural Hegemony was being discussed in the thread 'Mcdonalds : benefits and harm' and you contested by belief and asked me to prove the 'conspiracy theory' that in Capitalist Society


"The means of communication and the irresistable output of the entertainement industry carry with them certian preconditioned intellectual and emotional habits, attitudes and habits that bind the consumers to the producers and to the entire social system. This results in a false consciousness and a pattern of one dimensional thought"

You've heard that before, I know.

I was lazily thinking about this just now, and I have something of an answer. If one examines Stalinist Russia, there operated a vast personality cult. Such was the praise heaped upon Stalin, that people literally believed he was all-knowing, immensely intelligent - an God even. The same concept does in fact operate in the DPRK. I am sure that you, as a loyal Capitalist, will not contest this notion - the personality cults in these countries were horrific. Yet they demonstrate something important - when people are subjected to a Hegemony of immense breadth and Magnitude, they lose the ability to examine their surroundings rationally and accept alternatives to the hegemonic mode of thought. They gain a false consciousness. They Think one-dimensionally! Now, why could a comparable 'cult of personality' not operate under Capitalism. Surely you will agree that every day we are continually bombarded with the cult of the commodity in the form of advertisements in place of portraits of Stalin. So how could this amount to anything other than a Hegemonic culture and mode of control? People despise the notion of a 'cult of personality' yet cannot recognize that something similair exists in our society.

If you think that a cult of the commodity cannot amount to a cult of personality, please tell me why that is the case.

Just a few rough ideas. I would appreciate an answer.


Soviet States and their puppets exercised harsh levels of authoritarianism".

These States were not socialist/communist/leftist/libertarian

[Dyst]

"The third reich wasn't a failure of fascism, it was just a lesson learned. It'll work better next time...honest." Who's stupid enough to want either back? Not me.

Sure. The only difference is that the majority of nazis actually considers Nazi-Germany a success (hadn't it lost the war and everything), and they promote the execution of other races, one great leader to rule, discrimination of women, gays and disabled people, execution of all political opposition(eers), etc.

While most of the communists on this board thinks of stalinist Soviet as almost equally horrific as Nazi-Germany. Many are against all hierarchy, and most are for the destruction of the state as it is used as a repressive tool by the capitalist class. Most of us are against execution of capitalists, unless in self-defence (or in a war situation).

[Tungsten]

bobkindles

I sent you this message quite some time ago, but you never replied Tungsten!
Well I visit multiple messageboards, so send it again.

They gain a false consciousness. They Think one-dimensionally! Now, why could a comparable 'cult of personality' not operate under Capitalism. Surely you will agree that every day we are continually bombarded with the cult of the commodity in the form of advertisements in place of portraits of Stalin.
There isn't any cult of commodity- even kids can see through advetising slogans. And another thing- Stalin's edicts were compulsory. Nike's and McDonald's are not.

So how could this amount to anything other than a Hegemonic culture and mode of control?
Because it isn't controlling anyone.

These States were not socialist/communist/leftist/libertarian
They were statist, as are you and most people here.

[RevMARKSman]

They were statist, as are you and most people here.

You think we're fucking STATIST? :blink: Oh my nonexistent god...

http://redanarchist.org/

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 09:43 PM

They were statist, as are you and most people here.

You think we're fucking STATIST? :blink: Oh my nonexistent god...

http://redanarchist.org/
Ummm...I thought you believed in god...anyway..


You are going to have to lay out a bit better what you think 'statism' is. As there are many ways to define it.

Don't go to that Red Anarchist junk site, just a bunch of kids, they never have revolutions.


Back to the read world...I assume you ment Socialism...

Socialism is opposed to state intervention in matters of personal freedom, i.e. gay rights, abortion, drugs, ect.

The final goal of communism is a classless, propertyless and stateless society. Communists see the state only as a necessary evil until the creation of that society is possible.

I don't know fo any one here that wants to keep a state around forever.

Hell, Herny Clay's American System was statist and I don't hear much rabble about that.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 09:43 PM

They were statist, as are you and most people here.

You think we're fucking STATIST? :blink: Oh my nonexistent god...

http://redanarchist.org/
Ummm...I thought you believed in god...anyway..


You are going to have to lay out a bit better what you think 'statism' is. As there are many ways to define it.

Don't go to that Red Anarchist junk site, just a bunch of kids, they never have revolutions.


Back to the read world...I assume you ment Socialism...

Socialism is opposed to state intervention in matters of personal freedom, i.e. gay rights, abortion, drugs, ect.

The final goal of communism is a classless, propertyless and stateless society. Communists see the state only as a necessary evil until the creation of that society is possible.

I don't know fo any one here that wants to keep a state around forever.

Hell, Herny Clay's American System was statist and I don't hear much rabble about that.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 09:43 PM

They were statist, as are you and most people here.

You think we're fucking STATIST? :blink: Oh my nonexistent god...

http://redanarchist.org/
Ummm...I thought you believed in god...anyway..


You are going to have to lay out a bit better what you think 'statism' is. As there are many ways to define it.

Don't go to that Red Anarchist junk site, just a bunch of kids, they never have revolutions.


Back to the read world...I assume you ment Socialism...

Socialism is opposed to state intervention in matters of personal freedom, i.e. gay rights, abortion, drugs, ect.

The final goal of communism is a classless, propertyless and stateless society. Communists see the state only as a necessary evil until the creation of that society is possible.

I don't know fo any one here that wants to keep a state around forever.

Hell, Herny Clay's American System was statist and I don't hear much rabble about that.

[ummProfessional]

i just don't understand how no government or whatever is going to work? how is crime going to be dealt with? are the people going to take up arms and take justice by their own hands? :huh: thats pretty retarded....what about if i have incest with my 11 year old daughter, who the fuck are you to tell me that is wrong than? or would i be brought into some sort of council in my paradise community reminiscent to that Leonardo Di Caprio movie The Beach :lol: i mean seriously, how is this going to be? like the witch trials of Salem? then obviously that wouldn't be no "governement", because someone is going to have to be holding those trials deeming them as "inmoral" or what not...if i kill someone who is going to arrest me? my neighbors? because surely if there is no government there is no police, and how are different factions not going to form? say some group of lunatics who become a pair of criminals deeming themselves a "police" force sort of speak...

[ummProfessional]

i just don't understand how no government or whatever is going to work? how is crime going to be dealt with? are the people going to take up arms and take justice by their own hands? :huh: thats pretty retarded....what about if i have incest with my 11 year old daughter, who the fuck are you to tell me that is wrong than? or would i be brought into some sort of council in my paradise community reminiscent to that Leonardo Di Caprio movie The Beach :lol: i mean seriously, how is this going to be? like the witch trials of Salem? then obviously that wouldn't be no "governement", because someone is going to have to be holding those trials deeming them as "inmoral" or what not...if i kill someone who is going to arrest me? my neighbors? because surely if there is no government there is no police, and how are different factions not going to form? say some group of lunatics who become a pair of criminals deeming themselves a "police" force sort of speak...

[ummProfessional]

i just don't understand how no government or whatever is going to work? how is crime going to be dealt with? are the people going to take up arms and take justice by their own hands? :huh: thats pretty retarded....what about if i have incest with my 11 year old daughter, who the fuck are you to tell me that is wrong than? or would i be brought into some sort of council in my paradise community reminiscent to that Leonardo Di Caprio movie The Beach :lol: i mean seriously, how is this going to be? like the witch trials of Salem? then obviously that wouldn't be no "governement", because someone is going to have to be holding those trials deeming them as "inmoral" or what not...if i kill someone who is going to arrest me? my neighbors? because surely if there is no government there is no police, and how are different factions not going to form? say some group of lunatics who become a pair of criminals deeming themselves a "police" force sort of speak...

[ummProfessional]

also what abou this "propertyless" society? i dont get it? does that mean i can go inside you house and eat your food and wear your clothes and use your car? and everyone else can do the same without a problem? :rolleyes:

[ummProfessional]

also what abou this "propertyless" society? i dont get it? does that mean i can go inside you house and eat your food and wear your clothes and use your car? and everyone else can do the same without a problem? :rolleyes:

[ummProfessional]

also what abou this "propertyless" society? i dont get it? does that mean i can go inside you house and eat your food and wear your clothes and use your car? and everyone else can do the same without a problem? :rolleyes:

[Connolly]

i just don't understand how no government or whatever is going to work? how is crime going to be dealt with?

Thats why the causes of crime are addressed in the first place.

It is expected that communism places us in a situation which all but eliminates crime.



what about if i have incest with my 11 year old daughter, who the fuck are you to tell me that is wrong than?

That would sort of mean you want sex dont it?

In a communist society, moral trash is removed allowing big massive orgy madness.

Crazy aint it :lol:


also what abou this "propertyless" society? i dont get it? does that mean i can go inside you house and eat your food and wear your clothes and use your car? and everyone else can do the same without a problem?

Why? wouldnt you have posession of your own car, your own food and your own clothes? :rolleyes:

[Connolly]

i just don't understand how no government or whatever is going to work? how is crime going to be dealt with?

Thats why the causes of crime are addressed in the first place.

It is expected that communism places us in a situation which all but eliminates crime.



what about if i have incest with my 11 year old daughter, who the fuck are you to tell me that is wrong than?

That would sort of mean you want sex dont it?

In a communist society, moral trash is removed allowing big massive orgy madness.

Crazy aint it :lol:


also what abou this "propertyless" society? i dont get it? does that mean i can go inside you house and eat your food and wear your clothes and use your car? and everyone else can do the same without a problem?

Why? wouldnt you have posession of your own car, your own food and your own clothes? :rolleyes:

[Connolly]

i just don't understand how no government or whatever is going to work? how is crime going to be dealt with?

Thats why the causes of crime are addressed in the first place.

It is expected that communism places us in a situation which all but eliminates crime.



what about if i have incest with my 11 year old daughter, who the fuck are you to tell me that is wrong than?

That would sort of mean you want sex dont it?

In a communist society, moral trash is removed allowing big massive orgy madness.

Crazy aint it :lol:


also what abou this "propertyless" society? i dont get it? does that mean i can go inside you house and eat your food and wear your clothes and use your car? and everyone else can do the same without a problem?

Why? wouldnt you have posession of your own car, your own food and your own clothes? :rolleyes:

[Tungsten]

MonicaTTmed

You think we're fucking STATIST? :blink: Oh my nonexistent god...

http://redanarchist.org/
The person that was aimed at isn't an anarchist.
CCCPneubauten

Socialism is opposed to state intervention in matters of personal freedom, i.e. gay rights, abortion, drugs, ect.
What about economic freedom? That spills over into "personal freedom".

The final goal of communism is a classless, propertyless and stateless society. Communists see the state only as a necessary evil until the creation of that society is possible.
That's one hell of a big task. How can you keep all this enforced without something resembling a state?
The RedBanner

It is expected that communism places us in a situation which all but eliminates crime.
Or does it merely legalise it?

Why? wouldnt you have posession of your own car, your own food and your own clothes?
Why would I need to if I could just have yours instead?

[Tungsten]

MonicaTTmed

You think we're fucking STATIST? :blink: Oh my nonexistent god...

http://redanarchist.org/
The person that was aimed at isn't an anarchist.
CCCPneubauten

Socialism is opposed to state intervention in matters of personal freedom, i.e. gay rights, abortion, drugs, ect.
What about economic freedom? That spills over into "personal freedom".

The final goal of communism is a classless, propertyless and stateless society. Communists see the state only as a necessary evil until the creation of that society is possible.
That's one hell of a big task. How can you keep all this enforced without something resembling a state?
The RedBanner

It is expected that communism places us in a situation which all but eliminates crime.
Or does it merely legalise it?

Why? wouldnt you have posession of your own car, your own food and your own clothes?
Why would I need to if I could just have yours instead?

[Tungsten]

MonicaTTmed

You think we're fucking STATIST? :blink: Oh my nonexistent god...

http://redanarchist.org/
The person that was aimed at isn't an anarchist.
CCCPneubauten

Socialism is opposed to state intervention in matters of personal freedom, i.e. gay rights, abortion, drugs, ect.
What about economic freedom? That spills over into "personal freedom".

The final goal of communism is a classless, propertyless and stateless society. Communists see the state only as a necessary evil until the creation of that society is possible.
That's one hell of a big task. How can you keep all this enforced without something resembling a state?
The RedBanner

It is expected that communism places us in a situation which all but eliminates crime.
Or does it merely legalise it?

Why? wouldnt you have posession of your own car, your own food and your own clothes?
Why would I need to if I could just have yours instead?

[Connolly]

Or does it merely legalise it?

That depends on what you call crime - actions would neither be legal nor criminal - such definitions have no meaning in objective reality.


Why would I need to if I could just have yours instead?

Why would you want my one if you have your own?

Would you like to share my toothbrush too?

[Connolly]

Or does it merely legalise it?

That depends on what you call crime - actions would neither be legal nor criminal - such definitions have no meaning in objective reality.


Why would I need to if I could just have yours instead?

Why would you want my one if you have your own?

Would you like to share my toothbrush too?

[Connolly]

Or does it merely legalise it?

That depends on what you call crime - actions would neither be legal nor criminal - such definitions have no meaning in objective reality.


Why would I need to if I could just have yours instead?

Why would you want my one if you have your own?

Would you like to share my toothbrush too?

[JimmyC]

Communism is the opposite of idealistic.

To be idealistic, something has to appeal to people on the level of their hopes and immagination. So often, as demonstrated by many commentors here, and the overall administration, those things that can only be proven are worthy of thought, in the purely Marxist model.

The human experience always invites contemplation of the existence of life, and such great questions inevitably lead one to question what God is, whether there is God, and one's relation to God.

Any society which precludes this concept by state edict or by state philosophy can never be "idealistic". In fact, controlling one's mind, or attempting to control one's mind, over the very basic question of God is the opposite of idealistic.

The basic freedoms of expression, the freedom of religion, the freedom to print ideas is the closest one cuold get to idealism.

Monica:

Jefferson commented in many ways that he would always prefer a world with the First Amendment, and no government, over a world with government, and no First Amendment. Have you ever reflected on WHY these freedoms are the First Amendment? (They were part of an agreement that if the U.S. was to have a strong, central government (which it does), those opposed to such a government were to receive during the first of Washington's Administrations, a list of things that people themselves would have, and that the state could not "touch".

Now, to the specific idea of a post industrial society, and the exploitation of man, this is what Marxism addresses, and current capitalism is poor at. There are many ways to amend capitalism to have it create a more balanced society in terms of wealth. The Revolution which you support, presuming a 12 year old is capable of fully supporting the destruction of our society (English Common Law, which examined this problem for centuries deterined that until 14, one was an infant, incapable of criminal or rebelious intent), would strip you of all of the protections the Constitutional Framers placed into our society. You would be left politically naked in this Marxist state, with no rights, and at the mercy of what the DOP said you deserved.

Turning to the state to protect your rights is a dangerous affair, and the exact opposite of what is idealistic.

[JimmyC]

Communism is the opposite of idealistic.

To be idealistic, something has to appeal to people on the level of their hopes and immagination. So often, as demonstrated by many commentors here, and the overall administration, those things that can only be proven are worthy of thought, in the purely Marxist model.

The human experience always invites contemplation of the existence of life, and such great questions inevitably lead one to question what God is, whether there is God, and one's relation to God.

Any society which precludes this concept by state edict or by state philosophy can never be "idealistic". In fact, controlling one's mind, or attempting to control one's mind, over the very basic question of God is the opposite of idealistic.

The basic freedoms of expression, the freedom of religion, the freedom to print ideas is the closest one cuold get to idealism.

Monica:

Jefferson commented in many ways that he would always prefer a world with the First Amendment, and no government, over a world with government, and no First Amendment. Have you ever reflected on WHY these freedoms are the First Amendment? (They were part of an agreement that if the U.S. was to have a strong, central government (which it does), those opposed to such a government were to receive during the first of Washington's Administrations, a list of things that people themselves would have, and that the state could not "touch".

Now, to the specific idea of a post industrial society, and the exploitation of man, this is what Marxism addresses, and current capitalism is poor at. There are many ways to amend capitalism to have it create a more balanced society in terms of wealth. The Revolution which you support, presuming a 12 year old is capable of fully supporting the destruction of our society (English Common Law, which examined this problem for centuries deterined that until 14, one was an infant, incapable of criminal or rebelious intent), would strip you of all of the protections the Constitutional Framers placed into our society. You would be left politically naked in this Marxist state, with no rights, and at the mercy of what the DOP said you deserved.

Turning to the state to protect your rights is a dangerous affair, and the exact opposite of what is idealistic.

[JimmyC]

Communism is the opposite of idealistic.

To be idealistic, something has to appeal to people on the level of their hopes and immagination. So often, as demonstrated by many commentors here, and the overall administration, those things that can only be proven are worthy of thought, in the purely Marxist model.

The human experience always invites contemplation of the existence of life, and such great questions inevitably lead one to question what God is, whether there is God, and one's relation to God.

Any society which precludes this concept by state edict or by state philosophy can never be "idealistic". In fact, controlling one's mind, or attempting to control one's mind, over the very basic question of God is the opposite of idealistic.

The basic freedoms of expression, the freedom of religion, the freedom to print ideas is the closest one cuold get to idealism.

Monica:

Jefferson commented in many ways that he would always prefer a world with the First Amendment, and no government, over a world with government, and no First Amendment. Have you ever reflected on WHY these freedoms are the First Amendment? (They were part of an agreement that if the U.S. was to have a strong, central government (which it does), those opposed to such a government were to receive during the first of Washington's Administrations, a list of things that people themselves would have, and that the state could not "touch".

Now, to the specific idea of a post industrial society, and the exploitation of man, this is what Marxism addresses, and current capitalism is poor at. There are many ways to amend capitalism to have it create a more balanced society in terms of wealth. The Revolution which you support, presuming a 12 year old is capable of fully supporting the destruction of our society (English Common Law, which examined this problem for centuries deterined that until 14, one was an infant, incapable of criminal or rebelious intent), would strip you of all of the protections the Constitutional Framers placed into our society. You would be left politically naked in this Marxist state, with no rights, and at the mercy of what the DOP said you deserved.

Turning to the state to protect your rights is a dangerous affair, and the exact opposite of what is idealistic.

[ummProfessional]

Thats why the causes of crime are addressed in the first place.

It is expected that communism places us in a situation which all but eliminates crime

really? hahaha how is that so? so you expect communism to put a mass murderer a pedophile or a psychopath in a situation where their criminal tendencies will be eliminated? :lol: that has got to be the most retarded thing iv ever heard!! AHH YES MATERIAL AND ECONOMIC CHANGES WILL SOMEHOW MAGICALLY CONDITION PEDOPHILES AND MASS MURDERES TO GIVE UP THEIR CRIMINAL WAYS! :rolleyes:


That would sort of mean you want sex dont it?

In a communist society, moral trash is removed allowing big massive orgy madness.

Crazy aint it

that would mean i want sex? no, that would mean im a crazy pedophile!! a big massive orgy? yeah thats not crazy right, we will also loose jelousy under communism and everyone will start having promiscuous sex :lol: you can't sound more ridiculous i hope you know that..... so "moral trash" would also be eliminated hahahaha ahhh yes pedophile heaven!! hahaha :lol: :rolleyes: get real


Why? wouldnt you have posession of your own car, your own food and your own clothes?

why? because posetion means it's mines and i do with it whatever the fuck i want, if i don't want to share i have my rights, if i want to share then i will, but propertyless means i don't choose if i want to share it or not


That depends on what you call crime - actions would neither be legal nor criminal - such definitions have no meaning in objective reality.

it depends on what you call crime? are you ok? are your brain cells working properly? let me ask you what do you consider a crime? actions won't be legal nor criminal? that makes no sense at all you moron! i guess i can kill anyone i want and it won't be considered neither legal nor criminal ? WTF? :huh: that has idiotic written all over it.. i mean if this is supposed to eliminate crimes, then why isn't the world using communism? hahaha because it's a stupid utopian idea thats why, like iv proven with my responses to your baseless comments...



Why would you want my one if you have your own?

Would you like to share my toothbrush too?

why would i want yours since i have my own? why does it happen in this world today? people have cars, yet they are stolen, people have bycicles yet they are stolen and so on...and plus are you meaning to tell me that under communism everyone is going to have the same clothes, the same cars, the exact same of everything? gee if that isn't utopian i don't know what is? we could make this into a movie, heck i can even write 1984 part II!! get real man..

and no i wouldn't want to take your dirty toothbrush anyone sane wouldn't want to do that, you might as well say if i want to wipe my ass with your used toilet paper, but your car might be in better shape then mines or prittier, or your house might be better cared for than mines and so on...you obviously don't understand humans, human nature, and this is why communism won't work and why it's called utopian by the majority of humans on planet earth and economic theorists and analysts...

thank you very much

[ummProfessional]

Thats why the causes of crime are addressed in the first place.

It is expected that communism places us in a situation which all but eliminates crime

really? hahaha how is that so? so you expect communism to put a mass murderer a pedophile or a psychopath in a situation where their criminal tendencies will be eliminated? :lol: that has got to be the most retarded thing iv ever heard!! AHH YES MATERIAL AND ECONOMIC CHANGES WILL SOMEHOW MAGICALLY CONDITION PEDOPHILES AND MASS MURDERES TO GIVE UP THEIR CRIMINAL WAYS! :rolleyes:


That would sort of mean you want sex dont it?

In a communist society, moral trash is removed allowing big massive orgy madness.

Crazy aint it

that would mean i want sex? no, that would mean im a crazy pedophile!! a big massive orgy? yeah thats not crazy right, we will also loose jelousy under communism and everyone will start having promiscuous sex :lol: you can't sound more ridiculous i hope you know that..... so "moral trash" would also be eliminated hahahaha ahhh yes pedophile heaven!! hahaha :lol: :rolleyes: get real


Why? wouldnt you have posession of your own car, your own food and your own clothes?

why? because posetion means it's mines and i do with it whatever the fuck i want, if i don't want to share i have my rights, if i want to share then i will, but propertyless means i don't choose if i want to share it or not


That depends on what you call crime - actions would neither be legal nor criminal - such definitions have no meaning in objective reality.

it depends on what you call crime? are you ok? are your brain cells working properly? let me ask you what do you consider a crime? actions won't be legal nor criminal? that makes no sense at all you moron! i guess i can kill anyone i want and it won't be considered neither legal nor criminal ? WTF? :huh: that has idiotic written all over it.. i mean if this is supposed to eliminate crimes, then why isn't the world using communism? hahaha because it's a stupid utopian idea thats why, like iv proven with my responses to your baseless comments...



Why would you want my one if you have your own?

Would you like to share my toothbrush too?

why would i want yours since i have my own? why does it happen in this world today? people have cars, yet they are stolen, people have bycicles yet they are stolen and so on...and plus are you meaning to tell me that under communism everyone is going to have the same clothes, the same cars, the exact same of everything? gee if that isn't utopian i don't know what is? we could make this into a movie, heck i can even write 1984 part II!! get real man..

and no i wouldn't want to take your dirty toothbrush anyone sane wouldn't want to do that, you might as well say if i want to wipe my ass with your used toilet paper, but your car might be in better shape then mines or prittier, or your house might be better cared for than mines and so on...you obviously don't understand humans, human nature, and this is why communism won't work and why it's called utopian by the majority of humans on planet earth and economic theorists and analysts...

thank you very much

[ummProfessional]

Thats why the causes of crime are addressed in the first place.

It is expected that communism places us in a situation which all but eliminates crime

really? hahaha how is that so? so you expect communism to put a mass murderer a pedophile or a psychopath in a situation where their criminal tendencies will be eliminated? :lol: that has got to be the most retarded thing iv ever heard!! AHH YES MATERIAL AND ECONOMIC CHANGES WILL SOMEHOW MAGICALLY CONDITION PEDOPHILES AND MASS MURDERES TO GIVE UP THEIR CRIMINAL WAYS! :rolleyes:


That would sort of mean you want sex dont it?

In a communist society, moral trash is removed allowing big massive orgy madness.

Crazy aint it

that would mean i want sex? no, that would mean im a crazy pedophile!! a big massive orgy? yeah thats not crazy right, we will also loose jelousy under communism and everyone will start having promiscuous sex :lol: you can't sound more ridiculous i hope you know that..... so "moral trash" would also be eliminated hahahaha ahhh yes pedophile heaven!! hahaha :lol: :rolleyes: get real


Why? wouldnt you have posession of your own car, your own food and your own clothes?

why? because posetion means it's mines and i do with it whatever the fuck i want, if i don't want to share i have my rights, if i want to share then i will, but propertyless means i don't choose if i want to share it or not


That depends on what you call crime - actions would neither be legal nor criminal - such definitions have no meaning in objective reality.

it depends on what you call crime? are you ok? are your brain cells working properly? let me ask you what do you consider a crime? actions won't be legal nor criminal? that makes no sense at all you moron! i guess i can kill anyone i want and it won't be considered neither legal nor criminal ? WTF? :huh: that has idiotic written all over it.. i mean if this is supposed to eliminate crimes, then why isn't the world using communism? hahaha because it's a stupid utopian idea thats why, like iv proven with my responses to your baseless comments...



Why would you want my one if you have your own?

Would you like to share my toothbrush too?

why would i want yours since i have my own? why does it happen in this world today? people have cars, yet they are stolen, people have bycicles yet they are stolen and so on...and plus are you meaning to tell me that under communism everyone is going to have the same clothes, the same cars, the exact same of everything? gee if that isn't utopian i don't know what is? we could make this into a movie, heck i can even write 1984 part II!! get real man..

and no i wouldn't want to take your dirty toothbrush anyone sane wouldn't want to do that, you might as well say if i want to wipe my ass with your used toilet paper, but your car might be in better shape then mines or prittier, or your house might be better cared for than mines and so on...you obviously don't understand humans, human nature, and this is why communism won't work and why it's called utopian by the majority of humans on planet earth and economic theorists and analysts...

thank you very much

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 01:34 PM

CCCPneubauten

Socialism is opposed to state intervention in matters of personal freedom, i.e. gay rights, abortion, drugs, ect.
What about economic freedom? That spills over into "personal freedom".

The final goal of communism is a classless, propertyless and stateless society. Communists see the state only as a necessary evil until the creation of that society is possible.
That's one hell of a big task. How can you keep all this enforced without something resembling a state?

What a second, isn't banning slavery 'spilling into economic freedoms' the 'freedom' to exploit isn't exactly something I respect.

Unlike a lot of people on here, I support a Socialist State, so I'm not sure where you're trying to get at this that second statement.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 01:34 PM

CCCPneubauten

Socialism is opposed to state intervention in matters of personal freedom, i.e. gay rights, abortion, drugs, ect.
What about economic freedom? That spills over into "personal freedom".

The final goal of communism is a classless, propertyless and stateless society. Communists see the state only as a necessary evil until the creation of that society is possible.
That's one hell of a big task. How can you keep all this enforced without something resembling a state?

What a second, isn't banning slavery 'spilling into economic freedoms' the 'freedom' to exploit isn't exactly something I respect.

Unlike a lot of people on here, I support a Socialist State, so I'm not sure where you're trying to get at this that second statement.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 01:34 PM

CCCPneubauten

Socialism is opposed to state intervention in matters of personal freedom, i.e. gay rights, abortion, drugs, ect.
What about economic freedom? That spills over into "personal freedom".

The final goal of communism is a classless, propertyless and stateless society. Communists see the state only as a necessary evil until the creation of that society is possible.
That's one hell of a big task. How can you keep all this enforced without something resembling a state?

What a second, isn't banning slavery 'spilling into economic freedoms' the 'freedom' to exploit isn't exactly something I respect.

Unlike a lot of people on here, I support a Socialist State, so I'm not sure where you're trying to get at this that second statement.

[ummProfessional]

yeah, well i doubt RedBanner is gonna come back to counter argue me...so...

hey CCCPneubauten, when you guys support a Socialist state, does this mean you do understand that a government is necessary? and also would i still have the right to my own business? i do believe government should control some of the major most important businesses, but if i want to make my own damn busines i think i should have the right....the US is socialist in a way, it borrows both socialist and capitalist ideals to mix them quite wonderfully might i add...although nothing is perfect in this world...

[ummProfessional]

yeah, well i doubt RedBanner is gonna come back to counter argue me...so...

hey CCCPneubauten, when you guys support a Socialist state, does this mean you do understand that a government is necessary? and also would i still have the right to my own business? i do believe government should control some of the major most important businesses, but if i want to make my own damn busines i think i should have the right....the US is socialist in a way, it borrows both socialist and capitalist ideals to mix them quite wonderfully might i add...although nothing is perfect in this world...

[ummProfessional]

yeah, well i doubt RedBanner is gonna come back to counter argue me...so...

hey CCCPneubauten, when you guys support a Socialist state, does this mean you do understand that a government is necessary? and also would i still have the right to my own business? i do believe government should control some of the major most important businesses, but if i want to make my own damn busines i think i should have the right....the US is socialist in a way, it borrows both socialist and capitalist ideals to mix them quite wonderfully might i add...although nothing is perfect in this world...

[Connolly]

God has answered your prayers my son :lol:


really? hahaha how is that so? so you expect communism to put a mass murderer a pedophile or a psychopath in a situation where their criminal tendencies will be eliminated?

Well, times change.

Once upon a time, those who were Autistic, Depressed, had behavioural problems and with "mental problems" beyond the "norm" were considered mad or just slow at learning - society and science has come to recognise and treat those with adequate care - far from putting them in the mad houses and nursing homes of the past - which, quite frankly does nothing but harm.

Im sure youv heard of the term "Deaf and Dumb" havnt you?........these terms are of the past, reflecting complete ignorance at the issues at hand. Children born deaf are no longer considered dumb - but, infact, just as intelligent as any other. This development is due to the provision of proper care and attention - and, recognition of their problem as soon as possible.

This is the thing about short minded people like you, you cannot see developments further than your own present circumstances - thats a sorry state.

We are becoming more aware of ourselves, how we function, and how to treat those who dont function like others.

As science furthers our ability to recognise certain traits of personalities, its a matter of time before we will discover who will most likley commit acts of perversion before it happens. If it does happen, those who commit such acts can expect proper care and attention.

Most acts of rape, child abuse and violence occurs (and I am witness to many) when the perpetrator is intoxicated with drink. From this, we find exactly why people find the need to drink, how we solve it - and what economic states it occurs less - if not eliminated.

If we went by your logic of slamming those who commit acts of murder and child abuse today, there would be no chance for homosexuals, transexuals and any other variant psychological positions people have - we would remain in the past, creating islands and putting those to death who do not conform to the "norm".

We have grown beyond that - its time to learn exactly whats going on, how it happens and how to treat the violated and violater.


that would mean i want sex? no, that would mean im a crazy pedophile!! a big massive orgy? yeah thats not crazy right, we will also loose jelousy under communism and everyone will start having promiscuous sex you can't sound more ridiculous i hope you know that..... so "moral trash" would also be eliminated hahahaha ahhh yes pedophile heaven!! hahaha get real

Dont both men and woman enjoy sex?

Why wouldnt they want some as often as possible? - what reason could they possibly have to not want to have sex with as many nice people as possible?

"To keep their virginity"?
"Its a disgusting act"?
"I have to get married first"?
"Its our nature to find one partner and stick with them"?

What fucking reason do you have?

According to you - people who enjoy sex are pedo's? is that so?


why? because posetion means it's mines and i do with it whatever the fuck i want, if i don't want to share i have my rights, if i want to share then i will, but propertyless means i don't choose if i want to share it or not

So your saying you dont know what the difference is between property and posession? :lol:

I dont have a decoder with me to translate what you just said, ill give it a go though.

This whole problem is solved by material circumstances. I havnt recieved any answer as to why people would want to wear my clothes, use my car and live in my house.

Why, if they have their own, in their posession?


let me ask you what do you consider a crime?

Violating and interfering with people against their will.


.. i mean if this is supposed to eliminate crimes, then why isn't the world using communism?

Maybe because fuckshits like you dont even know what it is.

"lets just use it, just like you use a toothbrush or a bike" :rolleyes:


because it's a stupid utopian idea thats why, like iv proven with my responses to your baseless comments...

You havnt "proven" anything - only your own idiocy.


why does it happen in this world today? people have cars, yet they are stolen, people have bycicles yet they are stolen and so on

Duh........Thats a good question, maybe because they are evil :lol:

And so on.......

I couldnt bother responding to such bollox.


and plus are you meaning to tell me that under communism everyone is going to have the same clothes, the same cars, the exact same of everything?

Maybe your using an Apple Mac screen or something - cause my screen isnt displaying where I said that :mellow:


but your car might be in better shape then mines or prittier, or your house might be better cared for than mines and so on...

Get a new one.


you obviously don't understand humans, human nature, and this is why communism won't work and why it's called utopian by the majority of humans on planet earth and economic theorists and analysts...

:lol:

Human nature - thats a funny one.

Its amazing that you state "the majority of humans on planet earth", who - quite factually - believe in a devine creator, and the perfection of the heavens - and how one day - Jesus is going to return and there will be a big battle between God and the Devil - for which God will win and there will be heaven on earth for eternity. And how Noah created a big massive boat, probably the size of the Titanic (inorder to accomidate all the animals on earth, while keeping them seperate) while God flooded all the bad boys.

All without a scratch of proof :lol:

If that proves anything - numbers arnt something to go by.

And how you state economic theorists - also, with their greatt "rational" mind for believing in God :lol:



You really are stupid.

[Connolly]

God has answered your prayers my son :lol:


really? hahaha how is that so? so you expect communism to put a mass murderer a pedophile or a psychopath in a situation where their criminal tendencies will be eliminated?

Well, times change.

Once upon a time, those who were Autistic, Depressed, had behavioural problems and with "mental problems" beyond the "norm" were considered mad or just slow at learning - society and science has come to recognise and treat those with adequate care - far from putting them in the mad houses and nursing homes of the past - which, quite frankly does nothing but harm.

Im sure youv heard of the term "Deaf and Dumb" havnt you?........these terms are of the past, reflecting complete ignorance at the issues at hand. Children born deaf are no longer considered dumb - but, infact, just as intelligent as any other. This development is due to the provision of proper care and attention - and, recognition of their problem as soon as possible.

This is the thing about short minded people like you, you cannot see developments further than your own present circumstances - thats a sorry state.

We are becoming more aware of ourselves, how we function, and how to treat those who dont function like others.

As science furthers our ability to recognise certain traits of personalities, its a matter of time before we will discover who will most likley commit acts of perversion before it happens. If it does happen, those who commit such acts can expect proper care and attention.

Most acts of rape, child abuse and violence occurs (and I am witness to many) when the perpetrator is intoxicated with drink. From this, we find exactly why people find the need to drink, how we solve it - and what economic states it occurs less - if not eliminated.

If we went by your logic of slamming those who commit acts of murder and child abuse today, there would be no chance for homosexuals, transexuals and any other variant psychological positions people have - we would remain in the past, creating islands and putting those to death who do not conform to the "norm".

We have grown beyond that - its time to learn exactly whats going on, how it happens and how to treat the violated and violater.


that would mean i want sex? no, that would mean im a crazy pedophile!! a big massive orgy? yeah thats not crazy right, we will also loose jelousy under communism and everyone will start having promiscuous sex you can't sound more ridiculous i hope you know that..... so "moral trash" would also be eliminated hahahaha ahhh yes pedophile heaven!! hahaha get real

Dont both men and woman enjoy sex?

Why wouldnt they want some as often as possible? - what reason could they possibly have to not want to have sex with as many nice people as possible?

"To keep their virginity"?
"Its a disgusting act"?
"I have to get married first"?
"Its our nature to find one partner and stick with them"?

What fucking reason do you have?

According to you - people who enjoy sex are pedo's? is that so?


why? because posetion means it's mines and i do with it whatever the fuck i want, if i don't want to share i have my rights, if i want to share then i will, but propertyless means i don't choose if i want to share it or not

So your saying you dont know what the difference is between property and posession? :lol:

I dont have a decoder with me to translate what you just said, ill give it a go though.

This whole problem is solved by material circumstances. I havnt recieved any answer as to why people would want to wear my clothes, use my car and live in my house.

Why, if they have their own, in their posession?


let me ask you what do you consider a crime?

Violating and interfering with people against their will.


.. i mean if this is supposed to eliminate crimes, then why isn't the world using communism?

Maybe because fuckshits like you dont even know what it is.

"lets just use it, just like you use a toothbrush or a bike" :rolleyes:


because it's a stupid utopian idea thats why, like iv proven with my responses to your baseless comments...

You havnt "proven" anything - only your own idiocy.


why does it happen in this world today? people have cars, yet they are stolen, people have bycicles yet they are stolen and so on

Duh........Thats a good question, maybe because they are evil :lol:

And so on.......

I couldnt bother responding to such bollox.


and plus are you meaning to tell me that under communism everyone is going to have the same clothes, the same cars, the exact same of everything?

Maybe your using an Apple Mac screen or something - cause my screen isnt displaying where I said that :mellow:


but your car might be in better shape then mines or prittier, or your house might be better cared for than mines and so on...

Get a new one.


you obviously don't understand humans, human nature, and this is why communism won't work and why it's called utopian by the majority of humans on planet earth and economic theorists and analysts...

:lol:

Human nature - thats a funny one.

Its amazing that you state "the majority of humans on planet earth", who - quite factually - believe in a devine creator, and the perfection of the heavens - and how one day - Jesus is going to return and there will be a big battle between God and the Devil - for which God will win and there will be heaven on earth for eternity. And how Noah created a big massive boat, probably the size of the Titanic (inorder to accomidate all the animals on earth, while keeping them seperate) while God flooded all the bad boys.

All without a scratch of proof :lol:

If that proves anything - numbers arnt something to go by.

And how you state economic theorists - also, with their greatt "rational" mind for believing in God :lol:



You really are stupid.

[Connolly]

God has answered your prayers my son :lol:


really? hahaha how is that so? so you expect communism to put a mass murderer a pedophile or a psychopath in a situation where their criminal tendencies will be eliminated?

Well, times change.

Once upon a time, those who were Autistic, Depressed, had behavioural problems and with "mental problems" beyond the "norm" were considered mad or just slow at learning - society and science has come to recognise and treat those with adequate care - far from putting them in the mad houses and nursing homes of the past - which, quite frankly does nothing but harm.

Im sure youv heard of the term "Deaf and Dumb" havnt you?........these terms are of the past, reflecting complete ignorance at the issues at hand. Children born deaf are no longer considered dumb - but, infact, just as intelligent as any other. This development is due to the provision of proper care and attention - and, recognition of their problem as soon as possible.

This is the thing about short minded people like you, you cannot see developments further than your own present circumstances - thats a sorry state.

We are becoming more aware of ourselves, how we function, and how to treat those who dont function like others.

As science furthers our ability to recognise certain traits of personalities, its a matter of time before we will discover who will most likley commit acts of perversion before it happens. If it does happen, those who commit such acts can expect proper care and attention.

Most acts of rape, child abuse and violence occurs (and I am witness to many) when the perpetrator is intoxicated with drink. From this, we find exactly why people find the need to drink, how we solve it - and what economic states it occurs less - if not eliminated.

If we went by your logic of slamming those who commit acts of murder and child abuse today, there would be no chance for homosexuals, transexuals and any other variant psychological positions people have - we would remain in the past, creating islands and putting those to death who do not conform to the "norm".

We have grown beyond that - its time to learn exactly whats going on, how it happens and how to treat the violated and violater.


that would mean i want sex? no, that would mean im a crazy pedophile!! a big massive orgy? yeah thats not crazy right, we will also loose jelousy under communism and everyone will start having promiscuous sex you can't sound more ridiculous i hope you know that..... so "moral trash" would also be eliminated hahahaha ahhh yes pedophile heaven!! hahaha get real

Dont both men and woman enjoy sex?

Why wouldnt they want some as often as possible? - what reason could they possibly have to not want to have sex with as many nice people as possible?

"To keep their virginity"?
"Its a disgusting act"?
"I have to get married first"?
"Its our nature to find one partner and stick with them"?

What fucking reason do you have?

According to you - people who enjoy sex are pedo's? is that so?


why? because posetion means it's mines and i do with it whatever the fuck i want, if i don't want to share i have my rights, if i want to share then i will, but propertyless means i don't choose if i want to share it or not

So your saying you dont know what the difference is between property and posession? :lol:

I dont have a decoder with me to translate what you just said, ill give it a go though.

This whole problem is solved by material circumstances. I havnt recieved any answer as to why people would want to wear my clothes, use my car and live in my house.

Why, if they have their own, in their posession?


let me ask you what do you consider a crime?

Violating and interfering with people against their will.


.. i mean if this is supposed to eliminate crimes, then why isn't the world using communism?

Maybe because fuckshits like you dont even know what it is.

"lets just use it, just like you use a toothbrush or a bike" :rolleyes:


because it's a stupid utopian idea thats why, like iv proven with my responses to your baseless comments...

You havnt "proven" anything - only your own idiocy.


why does it happen in this world today? people have cars, yet they are stolen, people have bycicles yet they are stolen and so on

Duh........Thats a good question, maybe because they are evil :lol:

And so on.......

I couldnt bother responding to such bollox.


and plus are you meaning to tell me that under communism everyone is going to have the same clothes, the same cars, the exact same of everything?

Maybe your using an Apple Mac screen or something - cause my screen isnt displaying where I said that :mellow:


but your car might be in better shape then mines or prittier, or your house might be better cared for than mines and so on...

Get a new one.


you obviously don't understand humans, human nature, and this is why communism won't work and why it's called utopian by the majority of humans on planet earth and economic theorists and analysts...

:lol:

Human nature - thats a funny one.

Its amazing that you state "the majority of humans on planet earth", who - quite factually - believe in a devine creator, and the perfection of the heavens - and how one day - Jesus is going to return and there will be a big battle between God and the Devil - for which God will win and there will be heaven on earth for eternity. And how Noah created a big massive boat, probably the size of the Titanic (inorder to accomidate all the animals on earth, while keeping them seperate) while God flooded all the bad boys.

All without a scratch of proof :lol:

If that proves anything - numbers arnt something to go by.

And how you state economic theorists - also, with their greatt "rational" mind for believing in God :lol:



You really are stupid.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 04:33 PM
yeah, well i doubt RedBanner is gonna come back to counter argue me...so...

hey CCCPneubauten, when you guys support a Socialist state, does this mean you do understand that a government is necessary? and also would i still have the right to my own business? i do believe government should control some of the major most important businesses, but if i want to make my own damn busines i think i should have the right....the US is socialist in a way, it borrows both socialist and capitalist ideals to mix them quite wonderfully might i add...although nothing is perfect in this world...
Of course I support a Socialist State, I'm not someone who things economic transitions happen overnight either.

Anarchists may find me 'statist' but I'm just a 'realist', Monica tried to speak for all of us I guess, even though Communists support a Worker's State, Anarchists are the ones who do not.

Small business (less than 15 or so people) I really don't have an issue with, but they should be subject to workplace democracy, just like ever business should be.

The USA isn't socialist, but nor are they full blown capitalist, as that would be hell on earth.

Open your own coffee shop for all I care, but at least have democracy in the workplace and allow people to share the means of production in said shop.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 04:33 PM
yeah, well i doubt RedBanner is gonna come back to counter argue me...so...

hey CCCPneubauten, when you guys support a Socialist state, does this mean you do understand that a government is necessary? and also would i still have the right to my own business? i do believe government should control some of the major most important businesses, but if i want to make my own damn busines i think i should have the right....the US is socialist in a way, it borrows both socialist and capitalist ideals to mix them quite wonderfully might i add...although nothing is perfect in this world...
Of course I support a Socialist State, I'm not someone who things economic transitions happen overnight either.

Anarchists may find me 'statist' but I'm just a 'realist', Monica tried to speak for all of us I guess, even though Communists support a Worker's State, Anarchists are the ones who do not.

Small business (less than 15 or so people) I really don't have an issue with, but they should be subject to workplace democracy, just like ever business should be.

The USA isn't socialist, but nor are they full blown capitalist, as that would be hell on earth.

Open your own coffee shop for all I care, but at least have democracy in the workplace and allow people to share the means of production in said shop.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 04:33 PM
yeah, well i doubt RedBanner is gonna come back to counter argue me...so...

hey CCCPneubauten, when you guys support a Socialist state, does this mean you do understand that a government is necessary? and also would i still have the right to my own business? i do believe government should control some of the major most important businesses, but if i want to make my own damn busines i think i should have the right....the US is socialist in a way, it borrows both socialist and capitalist ideals to mix them quite wonderfully might i add...although nothing is perfect in this world...
Of course I support a Socialist State, I'm not someone who things economic transitions happen overnight either.

Anarchists may find me 'statist' but I'm just a 'realist', Monica tried to speak for all of us I guess, even though Communists support a Worker's State, Anarchists are the ones who do not.

Small business (less than 15 or so people) I really don't have an issue with, but they should be subject to workplace democracy, just like ever business should be.

The USA isn't socialist, but nor are they full blown capitalist, as that would be hell on earth.

Open your own coffee shop for all I care, but at least have democracy in the workplace and allow people to share the means of production in said shop.

[ummProfessional]

God has answered your prayers my son

HE EXISTS!? :o sweeet


This is the thing about short minded people like you, you cannot see developments further than your own present circumstances - thats a sorry state.

We are becoming more aware of ourselves, how we function, and how to treat those who dont function like others.

As science furthers our ability to recognise certain traits of personalities, its a matter of time before we will discover who will most likley commit acts of perversion before it happens. If it does happen, those who commit such acts can expect proper care and attention.

Most acts of rape, child abuse and violence occurs (and I am witness to many) when the perpetrator is intoxicated with drink. From this, we find exactly why people find the need to drink, how we solve it - and what economic states it occurs less - if not eliminated.

If we went by your logic of slamming those who commit acts of murder and child abuse today, there would be no chance for homosexuals, transexuals and any other variant psychological positions people have - we would remain in the past, creating islands and putting those to death who do not conform to the "norm".

We have grown beyond that - its time to learn exactly whats going on, how it happens and how to treat the violated and violater

AHH!! YES!! im sure in the future i would also be able to control my own farts and make them smell like Chanel #5!! wow im so closed minded gosh!! :rolleyes: i have to believe that the world will be a "perfect" place in the future! PERFECT! hahaha


Dont both men and woman enjoy sex?

Why wouldnt they want some as often as possible? - what reason could they possibly have to not want to have sex with as many nice people as possible?

"To keep their virginity"?
"Its a disgusting act"?
"I have to get married first"?
"Its our nature to find one partner and stick with them"?

What fucking reason do you have?

According to you - people who enjoy sex are pedo's? is that so?

so because it's sex and it's enjoyable pedophilia won't be considered as anything wrong? :lol: yeah you sure have one heck of an open mind!! lmao and yes sex is ejoyable, and it always has been, and it will always be, so why aren't we having promiscuous sex now?what's keeping us from having this massive orgy you speak of? CAPITALISM!! :rolleyes: that is why i asked you jokingly, GEE I GUESS JELOUSY WILL ALSO BE ELIMINATED IN COMMUNISM HUH? :lol:



So your saying you dont know what the difference is between property and posession?

I dont have a decoder with me to translate what you just said, ill give it a go though.

This whole problem is solved by material circumstances. I havnt recieved any answer as to why people would want to wear my clothes, use my car and live in my house.

Why, if they have their own, in their posession?

property and possession are the same thing dumb ass, something is my property meaning it's my possession....and no it's not solved by material circumstances, because a guy who steals watches has a watch as well, so why does he do it? and like i said before people would want to use your car because it's prettier than theirs or in better condition...plus it's propertyless right, so it's not "yours", if im from out of town, and im lost, i need a place to stay, ill say "fuck you im staying in your house whether you like it or not because you don't really own it, since we live in a "propertyless" society"...


Violating and interfering with people against their will.

which would be murder, rape (which you say it's sex so since it's enjoyable who cares? we are all having a big massive orgy) and so on and so on....but how would these "crimes" be punished if there is no government? and plus you said quote :
actions would neither be legal nor criminal so you make no sense...how would me interfering against your will be considered a crime when you say actions won't be neither legal nor criminal? :huh: WTF!


Maybe because fuckshits like you dont even know what it is.

"lets just use it, just like you use a toothbrush or a bike"


riiiiiight, so only you and a few other sacred members of some illicit secret society know what it is and how communism really works right? or is it maybe because it really doesn't work and don't take my word, take the ones who really know like economic and political analysts, ahh yesss they are fuckshits like me who don't know anything :rolleyes:



You havnt "proven" anything - only your own idiocy.

well i don't have to prove anything, all of your wacko responses are pure garbage which seem like taken out from an Aldous Huxley or George Orwel dystopia, they speak for themselves.... MASSIVE ORGIES!! HAHAHAHA i like that one :lol:


Duh........Thats a good question, maybe because they are evil

And so on.......

I couldnt bother responding to such bollox.

YES!! you got it!! they are EEEEVIL! you aren't because you are part of that illicit and secret society of the people who know the truth, but everyone else is part of the conspiracy of DR.EVIL!!! :lol: yeah don't bother when you respond with such laughable comments, i understand you can't bother to respond correctly because you know you can't!! it's ok i won't make you admit defeat..



Maybe your using an Apple Mac screen or something - cause my screen isnt displaying where I said that

you didn't say that per say, but it's something i infered from your comments, you know what infering is? well anyways, since you say that there would be no need to steal or anything of that sort because according to you "material circumstances", then the only obvious material circumstances would be that everything in the world would be exactly the same and equally distributed amongst everybody equally!! which obviously like you yourself said mr. it's BOLLOX!


Get a new one.

get a new one right? ahh yes, in communism, i will be able to change whatever the hell i want whenever, for another exact same copy might i add :( lol


Human nature - thats a funny one.

yet no one here has been able to prove it wrong, you see as you read my counter argument, you will be compelled to anwser back because you don't want to feel defeated, right there you are proving how human nature exists thank you very much



Its amazing that you state "the majority of humans on planet earth", who - quite factually - believe in a devine creator, and the perfection of the heavens - and how one day - Jesus is going to return and there will be a big battle between God and the Devil - for which God will win and there will be heaven on earth for eternity. And how Noah created a big massive boat, probably the size of the Titanic (inorder to accomidate all the animals on earth, while keeping them seperate) while God flooded all the bad boys.

All without a scratch of proof

If that proves anything - numbers arnt something to go by.

And how you state economic theorists - also, with their greatt "rational" mind for believing in God



You really are stupid.

you have a point there, but religion is a matter of belief, and it is the same as you believing communism and all the bullcrap you speak of will work, which by the way there is ample evidence that it won't, and by the way also there is no "evidence" god doesn't exist...and according to you all economic theorists believe in god? and because one of them does he somehow is blinded by the visible and provable evidence on earth of economic patterns and so on?

yes im so stupid, how can i not see that in the future we will all be having big massive orgies, and that i won't be owning anything, and that there will be no actions labeled as legal or criminal...ahh yess thank you for sharing the light!

[ummProfessional]

God has answered your prayers my son

HE EXISTS!? :o sweeet


This is the thing about short minded people like you, you cannot see developments further than your own present circumstances - thats a sorry state.

We are becoming more aware of ourselves, how we function, and how to treat those who dont function like others.

As science furthers our ability to recognise certain traits of personalities, its a matter of time before we will discover who will most likley commit acts of perversion before it happens. If it does happen, those who commit such acts can expect proper care and attention.

Most acts of rape, child abuse and violence occurs (and I am witness to many) when the perpetrator is intoxicated with drink. From this, we find exactly why people find the need to drink, how we solve it - and what economic states it occurs less - if not eliminated.

If we went by your logic of slamming those who commit acts of murder and child abuse today, there would be no chance for homosexuals, transexuals and any other variant psychological positions people have - we would remain in the past, creating islands and putting those to death who do not conform to the "norm".

We have grown beyond that - its time to learn exactly whats going on, how it happens and how to treat the violated and violater

AHH!! YES!! im sure in the future i would also be able to control my own farts and make them smell like Chanel #5!! wow im so closed minded gosh!! :rolleyes: i have to believe that the world will be a "perfect" place in the future! PERFECT! hahaha


Dont both men and woman enjoy sex?

Why wouldnt they want some as often as possible? - what reason could they possibly have to not want to have sex with as many nice people as possible?

"To keep their virginity"?
"Its a disgusting act"?
"I have to get married first"?
"Its our nature to find one partner and stick with them"?

What fucking reason do you have?

According to you - people who enjoy sex are pedo's? is that so?

so because it's sex and it's enjoyable pedophilia won't be considered as anything wrong? :lol: yeah you sure have one heck of an open mind!! lmao and yes sex is ejoyable, and it always has been, and it will always be, so why aren't we having promiscuous sex now?what's keeping us from having this massive orgy you speak of? CAPITALISM!! :rolleyes: that is why i asked you jokingly, GEE I GUESS JELOUSY WILL ALSO BE ELIMINATED IN COMMUNISM HUH? :lol:



So your saying you dont know what the difference is between property and posession?

I dont have a decoder with me to translate what you just said, ill give it a go though.

This whole problem is solved by material circumstances. I havnt recieved any answer as to why people would want to wear my clothes, use my car and live in my house.

Why, if they have their own, in their posession?

property and possession are the same thing dumb ass, something is my property meaning it's my possession....and no it's not solved by material circumstances, because a guy who steals watches has a watch as well, so why does he do it? and like i said before people would want to use your car because it's prettier than theirs or in better condition...plus it's propertyless right, so it's not "yours", if im from out of town, and im lost, i need a place to stay, ill say "fuck you im staying in your house whether you like it or not because you don't really own it, since we live in a "propertyless" society"...


Violating and interfering with people against their will.

which would be murder, rape (which you say it's sex so since it's enjoyable who cares? we are all having a big massive orgy) and so on and so on....but how would these "crimes" be punished if there is no government? and plus you said quote :
actions would neither be legal nor criminal so you make no sense...how would me interfering against your will be considered a crime when you say actions won't be neither legal nor criminal? :huh: WTF!


Maybe because fuckshits like you dont even know what it is.

"lets just use it, just like you use a toothbrush or a bike"


riiiiiight, so only you and a few other sacred members of some illicit secret society know what it is and how communism really works right? or is it maybe because it really doesn't work and don't take my word, take the ones who really know like economic and political analysts, ahh yesss they are fuckshits like me who don't know anything :rolleyes:



You havnt "proven" anything - only your own idiocy.

well i don't have to prove anything, all of your wacko responses are pure garbage which seem like taken out from an Aldous Huxley or George Orwel dystopia, they speak for themselves.... MASSIVE ORGIES!! HAHAHAHA i like that one :lol:


Duh........Thats a good question, maybe because they are evil

And so on.......

I couldnt bother responding to such bollox.

YES!! you got it!! they are EEEEVIL! you aren't because you are part of that illicit and secret society of the people who know the truth, but everyone else is part of the conspiracy of DR.EVIL!!! :lol: yeah don't bother when you respond with such laughable comments, i understand you can't bother to respond correctly because you know you can't!! it's ok i won't make you admit defeat..



Maybe your using an Apple Mac screen or something - cause my screen isnt displaying where I said that

you didn't say that per say, but it's something i infered from your comments, you know what infering is? well anyways, since you say that there would be no need to steal or anything of that sort because according to you "material circumstances", then the only obvious material circumstances would be that everything in the world would be exactly the same and equally distributed amongst everybody equally!! which obviously like you yourself said mr. it's BOLLOX!


Get a new one.

get a new one right? ahh yes, in communism, i will be able to change whatever the hell i want whenever, for another exact same copy might i add :( lol


Human nature - thats a funny one.

yet no one here has been able to prove it wrong, you see as you read my counter argument, you will be compelled to anwser back because you don't want to feel defeated, right there you are proving how human nature exists thank you very much



Its amazing that you state "the majority of humans on planet earth", who - quite factually - believe in a devine creator, and the perfection of the heavens - and how one day - Jesus is going to return and there will be a big battle between God and the Devil - for which God will win and there will be heaven on earth for eternity. And how Noah created a big massive boat, probably the size of the Titanic (inorder to accomidate all the animals on earth, while keeping them seperate) while God flooded all the bad boys.

All without a scratch of proof

If that proves anything - numbers arnt something to go by.

And how you state economic theorists - also, with their greatt "rational" mind for believing in God



You really are stupid.

you have a point there, but religion is a matter of belief, and it is the same as you believing communism and all the bullcrap you speak of will work, which by the way there is ample evidence that it won't, and by the way also there is no "evidence" god doesn't exist...and according to you all economic theorists believe in god? and because one of them does he somehow is blinded by the visible and provable evidence on earth of economic patterns and so on?

yes im so stupid, how can i not see that in the future we will all be having big massive orgies, and that i won't be owning anything, and that there will be no actions labeled as legal or criminal...ahh yess thank you for sharing the light!

[ummProfessional]

God has answered your prayers my son

HE EXISTS!? :o sweeet


This is the thing about short minded people like you, you cannot see developments further than your own present circumstances - thats a sorry state.

We are becoming more aware of ourselves, how we function, and how to treat those who dont function like others.

As science furthers our ability to recognise certain traits of personalities, its a matter of time before we will discover who will most likley commit acts of perversion before it happens. If it does happen, those who commit such acts can expect proper care and attention.

Most acts of rape, child abuse and violence occurs (and I am witness to many) when the perpetrator is intoxicated with drink. From this, we find exactly why people find the need to drink, how we solve it - and what economic states it occurs less - if not eliminated.

If we went by your logic of slamming those who commit acts of murder and child abuse today, there would be no chance for homosexuals, transexuals and any other variant psychological positions people have - we would remain in the past, creating islands and putting those to death who do not conform to the "norm".

We have grown beyond that - its time to learn exactly whats going on, how it happens and how to treat the violated and violater

AHH!! YES!! im sure in the future i would also be able to control my own farts and make them smell like Chanel #5!! wow im so closed minded gosh!! :rolleyes: i have to believe that the world will be a "perfect" place in the future! PERFECT! hahaha


Dont both men and woman enjoy sex?

Why wouldnt they want some as often as possible? - what reason could they possibly have to not want to have sex with as many nice people as possible?

"To keep their virginity"?
"Its a disgusting act"?
"I have to get married first"?
"Its our nature to find one partner and stick with them"?

What fucking reason do you have?

According to you - people who enjoy sex are pedo's? is that so?

so because it's sex and it's enjoyable pedophilia won't be considered as anything wrong? :lol: yeah you sure have one heck of an open mind!! lmao and yes sex is ejoyable, and it always has been, and it will always be, so why aren't we having promiscuous sex now?what's keeping us from having this massive orgy you speak of? CAPITALISM!! :rolleyes: that is why i asked you jokingly, GEE I GUESS JELOUSY WILL ALSO BE ELIMINATED IN COMMUNISM HUH? :lol:



So your saying you dont know what the difference is between property and posession?

I dont have a decoder with me to translate what you just said, ill give it a go though.

This whole problem is solved by material circumstances. I havnt recieved any answer as to why people would want to wear my clothes, use my car and live in my house.

Why, if they have their own, in their posession?

property and possession are the same thing dumb ass, something is my property meaning it's my possession....and no it's not solved by material circumstances, because a guy who steals watches has a watch as well, so why does he do it? and like i said before people would want to use your car because it's prettier than theirs or in better condition...plus it's propertyless right, so it's not "yours", if im from out of town, and im lost, i need a place to stay, ill say "fuck you im staying in your house whether you like it or not because you don't really own it, since we live in a "propertyless" society"...


Violating and interfering with people against their will.

which would be murder, rape (which you say it's sex so since it's enjoyable who cares? we are all having a big massive orgy) and so on and so on....but how would these "crimes" be punished if there is no government? and plus you said quote :
actions would neither be legal nor criminal so you make no sense...how would me interfering against your will be considered a crime when you say actions won't be neither legal nor criminal? :huh: WTF!


Maybe because fuckshits like you dont even know what it is.

"lets just use it, just like you use a toothbrush or a bike"


riiiiiight, so only you and a few other sacred members of some illicit secret society know what it is and how communism really works right? or is it maybe because it really doesn't work and don't take my word, take the ones who really know like economic and political analysts, ahh yesss they are fuckshits like me who don't know anything :rolleyes:



You havnt "proven" anything - only your own idiocy.

well i don't have to prove anything, all of your wacko responses are pure garbage which seem like taken out from an Aldous Huxley or George Orwel dystopia, they speak for themselves.... MASSIVE ORGIES!! HAHAHAHA i like that one :lol:


Duh........Thats a good question, maybe because they are evil

And so on.......

I couldnt bother responding to such bollox.

YES!! you got it!! they are EEEEVIL! you aren't because you are part of that illicit and secret society of the people who know the truth, but everyone else is part of the conspiracy of DR.EVIL!!! :lol: yeah don't bother when you respond with such laughable comments, i understand you can't bother to respond correctly because you know you can't!! it's ok i won't make you admit defeat..



Maybe your using an Apple Mac screen or something - cause my screen isnt displaying where I said that

you didn't say that per say, but it's something i infered from your comments, you know what infering is? well anyways, since you say that there would be no need to steal or anything of that sort because according to you "material circumstances", then the only obvious material circumstances would be that everything in the world would be exactly the same and equally distributed amongst everybody equally!! which obviously like you yourself said mr. it's BOLLOX!


Get a new one.

get a new one right? ahh yes, in communism, i will be able to change whatever the hell i want whenever, for another exact same copy might i add :( lol


Human nature - thats a funny one.

yet no one here has been able to prove it wrong, you see as you read my counter argument, you will be compelled to anwser back because you don't want to feel defeated, right there you are proving how human nature exists thank you very much



Its amazing that you state "the majority of humans on planet earth", who - quite factually - believe in a devine creator, and the perfection of the heavens - and how one day - Jesus is going to return and there will be a big battle between God and the Devil - for which God will win and there will be heaven on earth for eternity. And how Noah created a big massive boat, probably the size of the Titanic (inorder to accomidate all the animals on earth, while keeping them seperate) while God flooded all the bad boys.

All without a scratch of proof

If that proves anything - numbers arnt something to go by.

And how you state economic theorists - also, with their greatt "rational" mind for believing in God



You really are stupid.

you have a point there, but religion is a matter of belief, and it is the same as you believing communism and all the bullcrap you speak of will work, which by the way there is ample evidence that it won't, and by the way also there is no "evidence" god doesn't exist...and according to you all economic theorists believe in god? and because one of them does he somehow is blinded by the visible and provable evidence on earth of economic patterns and so on?

yes im so stupid, how can i not see that in the future we will all be having big massive orgies, and that i won't be owning anything, and that there will be no actions labeled as legal or criminal...ahh yess thank you for sharing the light!

[Connolly]

yet no one here has been able to prove it wrong, you see as you read my counter argument, you will be compelled to anwser back because you don't want to feel defeated, right there you are proving how human nature exists thank you very much

To prove a point - I wont answer your arse wiped "counter arguments" - but, rather, say, I HAVE BEEN DEFEATED BY ONE OF THE BEST MINDS ON THE PLANET.

My integrity has been crushed by you. :blush:

Im not a communist any more. :blush:

Yes, human nature dosnt exist thanks to this response :blush:


:lol: :lol: :rolleyes:

[Aurora]

Originally posted by ummProfessional
yes im so stupid
WE ALREADY KNOW YOU IDIOT NOW FUCK OFF

you seriously dont have a clue what you are talking about :rolleyes:

Its actualy got to the point where it is not worth argueing with you because you dont understand the most simple idea's.And I actualy respect The RedBanner for bothering to answer you fuckwit questions.

Can I ask you a question ummProfessional,why the fuck do you waste your time here?I mean you obviously dont have the capability to learn,so you must think you are teaching us or something?well let me tell you,your not.We answer all your questions with logical answers and facts,but you cant understand them so you write huge posts which highlight your own stupidity. :rolleyes:

Its not even funny anymore.



Question posed: Is communism idealistic?
No,communism is scientific.
Problem solved

[ummProfessional]

To prove a point - I wont answer your arse wiped "counter arguments" - but, rather, say, I HAVE BEEN DEFEATED BY ONE OF THE BEST MINDS ON THE PLANET.

My integrity has been crushed by you.

Im not a communist any more.

Yes, human nature dosnt exist thanks to this response

yes point proven, and i admire your honesty of admitting defeat by a great mind like that of ummprofessional's..and yes your response above surely proved human nature since you looked at my comment like 30 thousand times and weren't able to counter argue the truth so you were only able to anwser with a sarcastic defeat statement... ;)


WE ALREADY KNOW YOU IDIOT NOW FUCK OFF

you seriously dont have a clue what you are talking about

Its actualy got to the point where it is not worth argueing with you because you dont understand the most simple idea's.And I actualy respect The RedBanner for bothering to answer you fuckwit questions.

Can I ask you a question ummProfessional,why the fuck do you waste your time here?I mean you obviously dont have the capability to learn,so you must think you are teaching us or something?well let me tell you,your not.We answer all your questions with logical answers and facts,but you cant understand them so you write huge posts which highlight your own stupidity.

Its not even funny anymore.

yes i have no clue yet your not speaking any truth that i know of? ahh yes you just don't want to anwser back because it would be a waist of time :rolleyes: gee i can get out of any arguemnt with that one...why do i waste my time? do you think wasting my time is kicking RedBanner's ass? why do you waste your time making a fool out of yourself by saying you anwser all of my questions with "logical" anwsers, yeah i guess big massive orgies are so logical i can be labeled mentally retarded since i don't see the logic on that huh :rolleyes: lol

au revoir mon amis