North Korean nuclear missile tests

[Si Pinto]

As I'm sure you all have read and seen, the North Koreans are about to test long range nuclear missiles. The US government and Japan ( :rolleyes: ) have already begun the sabre rattling, threatening 'substantive measures' against the NK's.

Actually, one of the best moments of the 'totally unbiased :lol: ' BBC news item I saw was how they described the missiles as having the 'range to reach Alaska' :lol: :lol: :lol: .

No offence to any of you from Alaska, but I've never really thought of you guys as 'a prime military target'.

Now if they could reach Condoleezer Rice (or whatever her name is) that would be ok.

Anyway..

What are we to percieve from this?

Is it really just sabre rattling or is GWB considering yet another military campaign?

[RaiseYourVoice]

attack north korea? what about iran than? and venezuella? i think the axis of evil is getting too big to handle for the U.S.

[Iroquois Xavier]

dunno why bush shud b bovverd if u asked him he'd probly say "thats the alaskanoids problem" :lol:

[RedGeorge]

I think North Korea just wants a bit of attention now that Iran is the big thing on Bush's tiny mind.

[Connolly]

I would like to know how they know these missiles can reach Alaska?

Or, even that they are building what they say they are building - nuclear weapons.

Sudan and Cuba were said to have been building chemical weapons - Cuba still, sudan got its larges medical plant destroyed for it.

Libya, chemical and nuclear - apparently thats dropped because the oil is flowing.

Iran - nuclear - Denies it - but said it wants to wipe Israel of the face of the earth, like every other arab leader who came before him.

Iraq - said to have chemical and nuclear wmds - not found.

The fact is - we shouldnt believe anything that comes out of the bourgeois media anymore.

Its all lies.

Sure, North Korea might have said it has the weaponry - leaders say alot of things - I dont know if he said it in English - but I didnt hear him saying that.

Its probably just another excuse for weapons contracts or for striking further fear into the people - Japan and South Korea probably want to play that game too.

If its true that NK has the nukes - I support them in their resistance - its only a matter of time before the monarchy falls anyway.

Military action by the west> ha, I dont think so. It would be another Vietnam except much worse. Terrain - pure dense forest. Army, 5th largest in the world not including the population who have compulsory military training. submarine fleet 6th? largest in the world. Airforce, quite large but obsolete. People, fanatical hate american nutjobs who will die for the cause. allies in the region, China and Russia, dont want further western influence in the region. Not to mention that the USA are stretched as it is in Iraq and Afghanistan - and other covert operations.

Other than that - id be skeptical of the medias claims - lies to men until something significant can convince me otherwise. Maybe when the bomb is dropped :lol:

[Si Pinto]

Here is the link for the story on the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/5096470.stm

To me, the fact of whether they actually have nukes or not isn't important, loads of countries have nukes.

What gets me is the US's continued interference if the nukes (real or imaginary) show up in a country they don't like, but they are happy to let corrupt regimes have them, as long as they are pro-american/anti-socialist.

What happens if their is a change of government in these countries, and the people win power, are the Americans going to demand they dismantle their bombs?

Doesn't the American government realise that it is a no-win situation for them?

Apparently not.

[Socialistpenguin]

Heh. This reminds me of a comic I saw not that long ago:
http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/war.108.gif
and
http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/war.109.gif
But yeah, this "test" is just North Korea flexing it's nuclear muscles, so to speak, in front of a steroid-pumped and paranoid US government. If the US government truly are brainless enough to attack North Korea, then the world is royally fucked.

[Si Pinto]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 02:48 PM
If the US government truly are brainless enough to attack North Korea, then the world is royally fucked.
Amen, to that.

[Cult of Reason]

Damn, I do not have a garden any more, and no cellar either. Building a viable fallout shelter will be hard. :(

[rikaguilera]

Bush and company can't attack NK. They have turned a blind eye to NK ever since they came into office. They refused talks and insulted their leader when he requested one on one attention. NK has already shot (since 2002) two missiles over Japan, to show that they can. And nothing was done. bush only wants to attack those who can't fight back. Kinda like a bully, only picking on those who are obviously weaker. I would not expect a response of any sorts from this.

[Janus]

The North Koreans have done this before I believe. Not too long ago, they shot a missile over Japan.

But yeah, this is basically just an intimidation technique and a way for them to gain some attention.

[GraylySquirrel]

Honestly, it doesn't matter if they have missles that can reach the U.S. or not. They will never use them. Why?

MAD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutally_Assured_Destruction)

Lets say, for purposes of agrument, they do get their long range missles. Sure, NK can lob a nuke at the U.S. How many can the U.S. lob back? A shitstorm of them. NL would be glass.

Therefore, NK will never launch a missle at the U.S. It would be suicide. And by the same token, the US will never invade NK. In the end the only thing that will be tossed around is alot of hot air.

[piet11111]

i bet bush will consider going clinton on north korea by dropping some bombs here and there.

bush cant do anything else if he wants to keep america's image of the worlds military superpower somewhat alive.
north korea is almost certain to call bush's bluff and launch the test missile anyway.

just look at how america is now dealing with iran they are too uncertain to deal with them already can you imagine what would happen if north korea starts causing trouble again :D

[Gojo]

I think it would be great if they'd do the test because they would finaly prove to everyone that they have the nukes ready for any capitalist invasion.
The only thing NK has to worry about is US backed sabotage or espionage inside their ranks, though they've been handling that quite well
:ph34r:

[Tekun]

I think we need a revolution in both countries, something similar to the Soviet revolution...that way we would avoid this entire mess

This is clearly an intimidation move, something to show the Yanks that NK is serious about their nuclear prog and to complicate the US's role, seeing how now the nuclear problem is in both Iran and NK

Both countries would be severely if not completely destroyed if they used their weapons against a specified target, be it country or region
That's why they wont use them, they're only seeing how far the US will go to stop them from testing their nuclear arsenal, and its obvious that not far enough


In the end however, its rather hypocritical for a country-the only country to have ever used nukes against civilians in conflict-to be telling someone who has only tested nukes to stop or slow down
It would be like a lion telling a tiger to stop hunting, yet the lion all the while would continue to hunt
Hypocritical, double standard, whatever u wanna call it <_<

[Tekun]

I think we need a revolution in both countries, something similar to the Soviet revolution...that way we would avoid this entire mess

This is clearly an intimidation move, something to show the Yanks that NK is serious about their nuclear prog and to complicate the US&#39;s role, seeing how now the nuclear problem is in both Iran and NK

Both countries would be severely if not completely destroyed if they used their weapons against a specified target, be it country or region
That&#39;s why they wont use them, they&#39;re only seeing how far the US will go to stop them from testing their nuclear arsenal, and its obvious that not far enough


In the end however, its rather hypocritical for a country-the only country to have ever used nukes against civilians in conflict-to be telling someone who has only tested nukes to stop or slow down
It would be like a lion telling a tiger to stop hunting, yet the lion all the while would continue to hunt
Hypocritical, double standard, whatever u wanna call it <_<

[Tekun]

I think we need a revolution in both countries, something similar to the Soviet revolution...that way we would avoid this entire mess

This is clearly an intimidation move, something to show the Yanks that NK is serious about their nuclear prog and to complicate the US&#39;s role, seeing how now the nuclear problem is in both Iran and NK

Both countries would be severely if not completely destroyed if they used their weapons against a specified target, be it country or region
That&#39;s why they wont use them, they&#39;re only seeing how far the US will go to stop them from testing their nuclear arsenal, and its obvious that not far enough


In the end however, its rather hypocritical for a country-the only country to have ever used nukes against civilians in conflict-to be telling someone who has only tested nukes to stop or slow down
It would be like a lion telling a tiger to stop hunting, yet the lion all the while would continue to hunt
Hypocritical, double standard, whatever u wanna call it <_<

[Janus]

I think it would be great if they&#39;d do the test because they would finaly prove to everyone that they have the nukes ready for any capitalist invasion.
It may facilitate some type of action by the imperialist powers.


something similar to the Soviet revolution
I think we can should try for something better than that.

[Janus]

I think it would be great if they&#39;d do the test because they would finaly prove to everyone that they have the nukes ready for any capitalist invasion.
It may facilitate some type of action by the imperialist powers.


something similar to the Soviet revolution
I think we can should try for something better than that.

[Janus]

I think it would be great if they&#39;d do the test because they would finaly prove to everyone that they have the nukes ready for any capitalist invasion.
It may facilitate some type of action by the imperialist powers.


something similar to the Soviet revolution
I think we can should try for something better than that.

[Janus]

Don&#39;t forget that the US still has a experimental missile defense system. So far it has not proved to be successful but if it is then the US will have great leverage over North Korea in the event of a nuclear showdown.

[Janus]

Don&#39;t forget that the US still has a experimental missile defense system. So far it has not proved to be successful but if it is then the US will have great leverage over North Korea in the event of a nuclear showdown.

[Janus]

Don&#39;t forget that the US still has a experimental missile defense system. So far it has not proved to be successful but if it is then the US will have great leverage over North Korea in the event of a nuclear showdown.

[Sense-A]

aren&#39;t USA astronauts in space right now working on our missile system? Or are they just upgrading the resolution of your satelite television?

[PLPTX]

The people can hate me if they please, but I wish the best of luck to Kim Jong-Il and the North Korean government with their nuclear ambitions. They are doing something very gutsy for this time in history; they are telling the Capitalist world to go to hell.

[Janus]

aren&#39;t USA astronauts in space right now working on our missile system?
No, that&#39;s for the International Space Station. The missile defense system is grounded at the moment.

[Dreckt]

They are doing something very gutsy for this time in history; they are telling the Capitalist world to go to hell.

They&#39;ve already created hell for their own people.

[Andy Bowden]

It&#39;s very unlikely that the DPRK Govt would use Nuclear weapons on a first-strike basis. Their leadership are not crazy - such an act would give the USA a pretext to respond with an all-out Nuclear assault.

Any anti-war movement would be on the backfoot, as the US leadership could say that the DPRK struck first.

What is more likely is that the DPRK program is,

a) A detterence program - you may be able to destroy us, but not after a horrendous Nuclear attack on either the ROK or Japan, causing economic chaos, or

b) A bargaining chip - we&#39;ll end our Nuclear program in exchange for aid/peace treaty.

[PLPTX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 04:35 PM

They are doing something very gutsy for this time in history; they are telling the Capitalist world to go to hell.

They&#39;ve already created hell for their own people.
That is questionable. Aside from the food shortages, which are for the most part out of government control, the overall economy of NK is starting to level.

[Dreckt]

Aside from the food shortages, which are for the most part out of government control, the overall economy of NK is starting to level.

Whatever food that is delivered to North Korea is going directly to the army. The North Korean army is in other words North Korea&#39;s middle class, since they don&#39;t live in a completely powerless stage as the ordinary people/workers do.

And if North Korea&#39;s economy is going up it is because the government itself has issued some areas where capitalism, although at a lower level, is practiced. North Korea will become another China once Kim Jong Il dies, since it is he who is the "symbolic leader". We all know what happened when Mao Zedong died, or when Ho Chi Mihn died. Laos is going the same way Vietnam does already.

North Korea will become another "trading partner" and economic hub by the year 2050.

[PLPTX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 11:32 PM

Aside from the food shortages, which are for the most part out of government control, the overall economy of NK is starting to level.

Whatever food that is delivered to North Korea is going directly to the army. The North Korean army is in other words North Korea&#39;s middle class, since they don&#39;t live in a completely powerless stage as the ordinary people/workers do.

And if North Korea&#39;s economy is going up it is because the government itself has issued some areas where capitalism, although at a lower level, is practiced. North Korea will become another China once Kim Jong Il dies, since it is he who is the "symbolic leader". We all know what happened when Mao Zedong died, or when Ho Chi Mihn died. Laos is going the same way Vietnam does already.

North Korea will become another "trading partner" and economic hub by the year 2050.
Actually. Through the introduction of new social programs, Kim Jong Il has managed to raise wages (slowly but surely). Technological advances are also being achieved and none of it can be credited to the waste of document and thought you call Capitalism. All KJI is doing is increasing funding in areas deemed as troubled and the results thus far have been quite positive.

As for the future. Capitalism is starting to flake off of the Earth&#39;s surface, like dry scabs in a warm shower. It is possible that America&#39;s economic system will die before Kim Jong Il&#39;.

[Janus]

It is possible that America&#39;s economic system will die before Kim Jong Il.
I seriously doubt that. But we&#39;ll see what the future holds for the next in line.






I gotta tell you, it doesn&#39;t look too promising.

[Dreckt]

As for the future. Capitalism is starting to flake off of the Earth&#39;s surface, like dry scabs in a warm shower.

Not what I can see. Rather, it seems that capitalism is enjoying widespread approval of itself all around the world. Hell, globalization hasn&#39;t even begun yet... :rolleyes:


It is possible that America&#39;s economic system will die before Kim Jong Il&#39;.

I hope that you are right, but the chances are very... nonexistant. The corporate junta in the US will do anything, anything, to keep capitalism alive. Even if it means moving to the moon and starting a new society all over again while blowing up the whole world...