Illegal Aliens (Immigration)

[AutumnWindIsARaider]

Treating uninsured illegal aliens costs about 2.2 billions a year. That's according to the Center for Immigration Reform. If that doesn't make you sick, how about this gem: Hospitals are going broke in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California because they are forced to subsidize Mexico's poorest people, and because hospitals must absorb "the costs of providing federally mandated emergency-room services to illegal aliens injured crossing the border.


Did you know that Mohammed Atta, one of the 9/11 masterminds was stopped by a policeman but wasn't detained because he possessed and displayed a valid license-even though he was, essentially, an illegal alien with an expired visa?


In a nutshell, using the most current figures, here's what illegal aliens and their children cost U.S. taxpayers on an annual basis just at the federal level:

$2.1 billion to lock up illegals in prisons

$2.5 billion in Medicaid

$2.2 billion in uninsured medial costs

$1.4 billion in federal aid to schools

$1.9 billion in food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches.

Now, the next time you get paid, take a hard, long look at your pay stub. Focus on the column where it says "Federal Income Taxes Withheld." That's the money you earned but don't get to keep. Then remember this: A portion of the cash the government has taken from your wallet is paying for that $10 billion handout

[More Fire for the People]

Umm, why would I care about 2.2 billion being spent on human beings? Also, it is sad that the government can't afford health care for all. I guess it should stop fighting expensive wars.

[JimmyC]

Yes, Hopscotch Anthill,

It is sad Mexico refuses to pay for universal healthcare for all Mexicans.
It is sad Mexico refuses to organize an honest police force for all Mexicans.
It is sad Mexico has the highest rate of kidnapping for profit in the world.
It is sad Mexico refuses to have honest elections for all Mexicans.

Fortunately, it's close to the United States.

[More Fire for the People]

It is sad Mexico refuses to pay for universal healthcare for all Mexicans.
Indeed. Perhaps Vincente should stop letting America rape Mexcio.

It is sad Mexico refuses to organize an honest police force for all Mexicans.
Fuck the police.

It is sad Mexico refuses to have honest elections for all Mexicans.

Indeed.


Fortunately, it's close to the United States.
Yes, many Mexicans immigrants are lucky that they can seek refuge in a first world country, that luxury is denied to many persons in the rest of Latin America due to distance.

[theraven]

Indeed. Perhaps Vincente should stop letting America rape Mexcio.

if america wasn't allowed to do buisness in mexico the standard of living would drop dramiticaly

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Illegal aliens? Is that why there's a huge saucer in my parking spot? Damnable Zetans.

[Comrade-Z]

Treating uninsured illegal aliens costs about 2.2 billions a year.

This just in: Wal-Mart owners cost America $10 billion a year! Wal-Mart owners stealing jobs from ordinary Americans!

Why don't people call for deporting the Walton kids to some third-world country and having their "jobs" taken over by all Wal-Mart employees collectively? Why the double-standard? :P

[JimmyC]

It is sad Mexico refuses to pay for universal healthcare for all Mexicans.

Indeed. Perhaps Vincente should stop letting America rape Mexcio.

QUOTE
It is sad Mexico refuses to organize an honest police force for all Mexicans.


Fuck the police.

QUOTE
It is sad Mexico refuses to have honest elections for all Mexicans.



Indeed.


QUOTE
Fortunately, it's close to the United States.


Yes, many Mexicans immigrants are lucky that they can seek refuge in a first world country, that luxury is denied to many persons in the rest of Latin America due to distance.


Yeah, sure. We "rape" Mexico. Every day. Lots of fun. Where's my dividend? Sheeesh!

Fuck the police? Well, if she's cute. And has her handcuffs with her.

And if the leaders of Mexico and other nations south of the U.S. stopped fucking over their people, they might get to enjoy the proserity of their own lands.



Illegal aliens? Is that why there's a huge saucer in my parking spot? Damnable Zetans.

Ha! And they say those who don't know the definitions of words can't provide occasional entertainment!

[black magick hustla]

people who say that illegal aliens "leech of" taxes do not know what the fuck they are talking about.

If anything, illegal aliens probably "contribute" more than what they take from the government.

[black magick hustla]

happy fathers day capitalist lawyer

[RebelOutcast]

The war in iraq has cost $289,000,000,000 so far and could easily surpass £1 trillion at the rate it is going and the the US national defence budgets was $401,000,000,000 for 2004, I can only imagine that it has increased for 2006.

My numbers are bigger than yours, *****.

**EDIT: I just found out that for 2007 that the defence budget is $439 billion, Even the increase in the defence budget has cost US taxpayers more than illegal immigrants**

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 11:32 PM
Treating uninsured illegal aliens costs about 2.2 billions a year.
And how much income do they make?

In the uk, right wing nutjobs throw similar statistics around. But if you actually subtract what it costs in benefits and security, by what icontribution they make to the UK economy, over all the income amounts to 800 million pounds.

But from a non economic standpoint, no human beign should ever be called "Illegal" the fact is, if your all that bothered about people leeching money, take a good hard look at the business owners. They leech 90% of your earnings away.

[Wanted Man]

"Illegal aliens"? That's so passé, I thought they were "criminal invaders" nowadays. :rolleyes:

[Hegemonicretribution]

The first bunch of aliens in America fucked it up for the locals of the time far more than any Mexicans are doing now, so in short either realise the hypocricy or stop the whining.

What is that sayin? Oh yes, "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." I hope that all of Mexico moves to the US, in one fuck off big great takeover deal, actually everyone should just move there.

[JimmyC]

For Information:

We call them "illegal" in the U.S. because they entered the country without going through customs. It's as simple as that.

Right now, it is in fact, NOT a crime to do so, but a civil wrong against the U.S. Something, as a plaintiff, the U.S. could sue for, if the defendants had any money to pay damages, which of course, they do not. In short, it's a trespass without the criminal part, because currently it isn't a crime.

HR 44??, or something that passed the H of R a while back, would make it a felony to do so.

Some Republicans in the House wanted to make it a misdemeanor, but it was rejected by the majority as too easy on the illegals.

(I personally support a misdemeanor, as it should be a crime, just not as serious as a felony.)

Of course, most of the commies, including those who post here, are internationalists, and don't subscribe to borders. I believe it is an insult to a nation that you would visit it under the cloak of a wrongful act, and because the "tort" concept and "catch and release" are not working, it's time to try something new, and be more serious about the problem.

The Senate passed its own version, and now the two Houses are meeting (well, a few members from each) to create a compromise.

Something will come out of it. It's the GOP's baby and they'll look awfully stupid if they can't agree amoungst themselves over the issue.

[RevMARKSman]

Yup. Dehumanize them. Slap on a label, like "illegal aliens", or "criminal invaders", and then they aren't human beings anymore.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 12:32 AM
Treating uninsured illegal aliens costs about 2.2 billions a year. That's according to the Center for Immigration Reform. If that doesn't make you sick, how about this gem: Hospitals are going broke in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California because they are forced to subsidize Mexico's poorest people, and because hospitals must absorb "the costs of providing federally mandated emergency-room services to illegal aliens injured crossing the border.


Did you know that Mohammed Atta, one of the 9/11 masterminds was stopped by a policeman but wasn't detained because he possessed and displayed a valid license-even though he was, essentially, an illegal alien with an expired visa?


In a nutshell, using the most current figures, here's what illegal aliens and their children cost U.S. taxpayers on an annual basis just at the federal level:

$2.1 billion to lock up illegals in prisons

$2.5 billion in Medicaid

$2.2 billion in uninsured medial costs

$1.4 billion in federal aid to schools

$1.9 billion in food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches.

Now, the next time you get paid, take a hard, long look at your pay stub. Focus on the column where it says "Federal Income Taxes Withheld." That's the money you earned but don't get to keep. Then remember this: A portion of the cash the government has taken from your wallet is paying for that $10 billion handout
I wholeheartedly agree with you here, we should legalise them all so they can get decent jobs with a better pay, without having to worry about being sent back, and so they can contribute in social welfare and get insurances. Great idea :)

btw you forgot to mention that would also save tons of money now spent on expensive border patrolling, tracking down 'illegals' and sending them back ;)

[JimmyC]

I am very concerned about what I thought was not allowed at the forums, that is, the discussion of whether or not someone should be banned. I thought the Admin. frowned on discussions of warning points and banned members.

For the second time in a very recent number of hours, MonicaTTmed did just that, and for no real reasons:

First, in the discussion of homosexuality, also here on O.I. While I happen to disagree with ummProfessional, he merely gave opinions without name calling or a mean spiritted point of view. Yet Monica stated that his views were gutted completly by LSD (I actually found that both he and LSD made their points very well), and that he should "prepare to be banned".

Above, Monica made this comment:

[/QUOTE]Yup. Dehumanize them. Slap on a label, like "illegal aliens", or "criminal invaders", and then they aren't human beings anymore. I think it's time for AutumnWindIsARaider to be banned. [QUOTE]

I have read what AutumnWind wrote, and he did not use the term "criminal invaders", that was not mentioned by anyone, save Monica, I suppose. But again, she closed with her thinking it's time Autumn be banned.

Again, isn't such a cooment disallowed here? (I won't even dscuss how his comments were not on any kind of standard for being banned.

So what gives? If comments of this kind are allowed by Monica, then it's only natural that ummPro and Autumn discuss why they shouldn't be banned. Then, all you eventually have is a string of comments about whether or not someone should be banned.

[CCCPneubauten]

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/01/news/econo...onomy/index.htm (http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/01/news/economy/immigration_economy/index.htm)

Un-biased article saying that immigrants are indeed 'good' for the economy.

How do you cappies deny something good for the economy?

http://www.aclu.org/immigrants/gen/11665res20020312.html

Also an interesting article on how good immigrants are for the economy.

[JimmyC]

I, myself, support honest government and the rule of law.

It is a misconception that those who have love for America automatically are interested in only making profits on anything.

Marxist theories argue (more or less) that there is only that which is material. Being patriotic about the United States does not mean, to me, grabbing every cent you can get.

[Janus]

In a nutshell, using the most current figures, here's what illegal aliens and their children cost U.S. taxpayers on an annual basis just at the federal level:

$2.1 billion to lock up illegals in prisons

$2.5 billion in Medicaid

$2.2 billion in uninsured medial costs

$1.4 billion in federal aid to schools

$1.9 billion in food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches.
OK... and if we get rid of them then that would cost even more money. Not the eviction itself but the revenue that would be lost by them not working anymore.

[JimmyC]

if we get rid of them then that would cost even more money. Not the eviction itself but the revenue that would be lost by them not working anymore


Require U.S. Citizens work for subsidies, and also raise the cost of the labor. It is disgusting that Americans believe they are "too good" to bend over and pick food in the hot sun.

You want welfare: You're picking lettuce (or whatever).

We have millions of people here in the U.S. who need jobs. Well, harvesting food is a normal part of living.

[GraylySquirrel]

Of course it’s good for the economy. If it wasn't, the American government would actually do something about immigration.

If there really was an "illegal immigration" problem, the government would do something. But there isn't. If we woke up tomorrow, and all of the so called "illegal aliens" were gone, America's capitalist economy would collapse. I wouldn't mind that, and it quite possibly could be a catalyst for revolution, but I'm sure the neo-cons might object :P

Ironically, immigrants are helping to sustain the very regime that oppresses and degrades them.

The only thing politicians are ever going to do about "illegal immigration" is talk about it. Politicians are smart. It’s naive to think they aren’t. You don't get to be in that position by being a complete idiot. Misguided maybe, but not in any way an idiot. No politician currently in office would ever consider truly addressing immigration, because if they succeeded, they would loose their positions of power.

It would almost funny to see how the right wing leadership disillusions its own followers... if it wasn't our lives they were fucking with.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 05:06 PM
I am very concerned about what I thought was not allowed at the forums, that is, the discussion of whether or not someone should be banned. I thought the Admin. frowned on discussions of warning points and banned members.

But this isn't a discussion about warning points or restrictions, there's no rule saying that someone can't say "so and so should be banned" although this is contextual, the rule (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=22496) you are referring to, is in place because we don't want OI to become a house for "WHY WAS I RESTRICTED" threads, and so they are trashed when spotted. Doesn't apply here.

I'm surprised it's really bothering you though, there's bound to be this kind of banter between people with opposing viewpoints. And someone saying "you should be banned" isn't going to get you banned. No need to panic. :P

[Herman]

Treating uninsured illegal aliens costs about 2.2 billions a year. That's according to the Center for Immigration Reform. If that doesn't make you sick, how about this gem: Hospitals are going broke in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California because they are forced to subsidize Mexico's poorest people, and because hospitals must absorb "the costs of providing federally mandated emergency-room services to illegal aliens injured crossing the border.


Did you know that Mohammed Atta, one of the 9/11 masterminds was stopped by a policeman but wasn't detained because he possessed and displayed a valid license-even though he was, essentially, an illegal alien with an expired visa?


In a nutshell, using the most current figures, here's what illegal aliens and their children cost U.S. taxpayers on an annual basis just at the federal level:

$2.1 billion to lock up illegals in prisons

$2.5 billion in Medicaid

$2.2 billion in uninsured medial costs

$1.4 billion in federal aid to schools

$1.9 billion in food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches.

Now, the next time you get paid, take a hard, long look at your pay stub. Focus on the column where it says "Federal Income Taxes Withheld." That's the money you earned but don't get to keep. Then remember this: A portion of the cash the government has taken from your wallet is paying for that $10 billion handout

You sir, deserve to be hanged.

[Sabocat]

What about the money that "illegal aliens" pour into the tax structures? I don't see that figure posted anywhere in this thread.

They put huge amounts of cash into systems that most likely they will never get to use.


On April 15, 2001, the Washington Post ran an article discussing the magnitude of the tax contributions made by illegal immigrants to the United States. The article points to several indicators showing that the total tax contributions made by these undocumented immigrants has been increasing in recent years, up to several billion dollars in 1998.

While no government agency specifically tracks the taxes paid by these immigrants there are several ways that their contributions can be measured indirectly. The Social Security Administration keeps a file holding all of the contributions made by individuals whose name and social security number do not match. Both the number of forms added to this file and the total value contributed have increased between 1990 and 1998. While not all of the entries in the file are due to illegal immigration, the article estimated that a significant portion are.

Because the Social Security Agency, like many governmental agencies, is legally obligated to protect the privacy of individuals' contributions to the fund, the INS is not able to use this information to catch illegal immigrants. As is the case with social security contributions, many of the taxes paid by illegal immigrants come in the form of automatic paycheck deductions. The major difference is that many illegal immigrants are afraid to attempt to receive a refund if too much money is deducted, because they fear being caught by the INS.

In addition to income taxes these individuals also pay the same property and sales taxes as all Americans, further increasing the amount of taxes paid.


Link (http://www.usvisanews.com/articles/memo1271.shtml)

[JimmyC]

Disgustapated,

I have read your recent contributions in this topic. To me, the issue is one of courtesy and legality.

My presumption is that, as a Marxist, you are an "internationalist", and would prefer or would work for the day where there are no borders between countries.

Let's say that I couldn't make a living in San Diego, California, and wake up one day, drive down the highway to the desert areas near Tecate, and enter Mexico without going through Mexican customs. Now, I go and set up a business in Mexico.

If the Mexican authorities arrested me for illegal entry, you'd be on my side and defend my right to work in Mexico w/out Mexican permission?

[Sabocat]

My presumption is that, as a Marxist, you are an "internationalist", and would prefer or would work for the day where there are no borders between countries.

Correct. There should be no borders between the working class. I don't subscribe to "Mexican worker", "American worker", "Brazilian worker", etc.. just "worker".


f the Mexican authorities arrested me for illegal entry, you'd be on my side and defend my right to work in Mexico w/out Mexican permission?

Yes, absolutely. If you were unable to survive because a job was not available, or paid too little for you to survive on.


Now, I go and set up a business in Mexico.

Now here's where we part company. For obvious reasons I would not support you going to Mexico in order to set up a company to exploit labor. Unless of course it was a worker collective and all profits were shared.

To a large extent, NAFTA has created an environment where many cannot afford to survive. I would not fault, nor would I deny the right of someone to go anyplace in the world to work in order to eat and survive.


NAFTA No Model for Development - Reports
By Emad Mekay
Inter Press Service
November 18, 2003

A decade-old trade deal between Canada, the United States and Mexico did not help the latter boost its economy, create jobs or rejuvenate its agricultural sector as promised, say two studies released here Tuesday. The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) came into effect in 1994 with officials from the three countries promising it would usher in a new phase of economic prosperity for all, particulary for the only developing economy involved. But with NAFTA touted as the blueprint for the controversial Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA), a common market of 800 million consumers in 34 countries from Argentina to Canada (excluding Cuba) the earlier deal has come under greater scrutiny.

The findings of the two reports released here are particularly relevant now as ministers from the 34 countries, along with business, academic and civil society leaders, have gathered in this Florida State city this week to discuss plans to create the FTAA by Jan. 1, 2005. At its launch, officials promised that NAFTA would create some 200,000 new U.S. jobs each year, spark higher wages in Mexico, initiate an environmental clean-up and boost the health of citizens.

The reports say the deal failed to fulfill most of these promises. "NAFTA has not helped the Mexican economy keep pace with the growing demand for jobs," says NAFTA's Promise and Reality', by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a Washington-based think tank. While foreign direct investment in Mexico led to the creation of 500,000 manufacturing jobs from 1994 to 2002, the country lost at least 1.3 million jobs in the agricultural sector alone, where one-fifth of Mexicans still work, adds the document.

The report says that the real wages of most Mexicans today are lower than they were when NAFTA took effect. "Despite predictions to the contrary, Mexican wages have not converged with U.S. wages." The other report, 'Unfair Trade', released by Public Citizen and the Global Resource Action Centre for the Environment (GRACE), says that U.S. and Mexican farmers are struggling to survive as a result of NAFTA. "Family farmers in both the U.S. and Mexico are suffering needlessly because of this agricultural crisis," said Wenonah Hauter, director of Public Citizen's Critical Mass Energy and Environment Programme. "It is inconceivable that this situation can continue to be ignored by the government and corporate leaders who held up NAFTA as a saviour to the Mexican farmer."

According to 'Unfair Trade', NAFTA has eliminated 99 percent of Mexico's agricultural tariffs, meaning, for example, that since 1994, the amount of U.S. corn dumped -- sold at subsidised prices -- on the Mexican market has increased 15-fold. Similarly, the amount of U.S. beef going into Mexico has doubled, poultry has tripled and pork imports have quintupled, adds the report. "Farms by the hundreds of thousands have been driven into bankruptcy, creating havoc in the Mexican countryside," the document says. "Three-fourths of the Mexican population now lives in poverty, up 80 percent since 1984."

Link (http://www.globalpolicy.org/globaliz/econ/2003/1118naftanomodel.htm)

[ummProfessional]

well i think that probably the reason why these countries try to do nothing about the illegal immigration of their citizens to the USA is because those immigrants bring back or send back remittances which account for like half of those countries GDP's!!..plus it sure as hell is great to have low wage labor even here in America, you don't have to go to Honduras to get your roof put on for a lower price!! they are here to do it for you...this is just another issue which has been around for i don't know how many freaking years and it's been called to the attention since midterm elections are around the corner thats all...