experienced comrades, help us "newbies"

[R_P_A_S]

In an earlier post I asked if any of you ever got any shit from people when you wear a communist t-shirt or such. One person said that he doesn't because it would make his socialist leaning very obvious. and he is afraid that someone will challenge his views and he might embarassed him self in a dispute. Well I feel the same way. I don't think I'm ready to go head to head on a debate or conversation making good and valid points about communism with some cappie. I'm just not up there on it as some of you guys. I've just got into it 2 months ago. really into it!

So can you guys help us. Give us some good valid sentences and words that we can use to fight back. I would also like to have a background to where this opinion comes from so I could do my own research too.

Basically I would like obvious responces a communist should use to defend his beliefs and make them see how capitalism isn't any better.

For example have any of you ever been told something typical from a cappie or a conservative. what is your typical replied to their ignorance?

"communism is responsible for millions of deaths" -etc...

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 04:08 PM
So can you guys help us. Give us some good valid sentences and words that we can use to fight back. I would also like to have a background to where this opinion comes from so I could do my own research too.

well, one good one is "Fuck off" the background to it? well it's a derogatory insult, probably with some basis in Latin.

In a sentence? "fuck off you capitalist bastard" works well I suppose.

the former is normally my response. To unwanted political attention.

[R_P_A_S]

i found out that cursing doesn't make your point any clearer. i rather kill em' softly. thanks but no thanks. :rolleyes:

[violencia.Proletariat]

High School (or anyone else's) Commie's Guide

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=25500

Don't sweat it man, eventually you'll be able to counter everything they throw at you. You will realize their arguements are very unthought out and naive.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 04:45 PM
High School (or anyone else's) Commie's Guide

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=25500

Don't sweat it man, eventually you'll be able to counter everything they throw at you. You will realize their arguements are very unthought out and naive.
thats what im saying.. any moron can say "fuck off man!" - im not that moron

[R_P_A_S]

also the one about Lenin killing millions. some because they were christian or some sort of religion. and how he order the execution of the main Czar family. including the kids. REALLY?

[RevMARKSman]

He did. He put a huge blemish on the word "communism." His only merit was, apparently, the great mustache.

[R_P_A_S]

you mean stalin?

damn so who was the good one. i understand you gotta kill some people because of the revolution. people will die. but I dont know if i can stomach the execution of kids. wtf? or of people who were brought up believing in Jesus. then all the sudden you come in and say no mor jesus and if you dont agree you will die. thats fucked up.

just how the spaniards did to the aztecs and every other indegeous people in mexico.

[violencia.Proletariat]

and how he order the execution of the main Czar family. including the kids. REALLY?

Thats an easy one. You see these "capitalists" will jump at any oppertunity to discredit us, but they neglect their own history.

Russia during the time of the revolution was in a semi-feudal state. The Tsars were the fuedal rulers of Russia. Heredity allowed the current Tsar's son or other family members to take power after they died. This is the case in all fuedal power relations, heredity rules. This means that any living direct blood to the Tsar could come back and reclaim the throne. This was a problem to the revolutionaries in Russia who were trying to smash feudalism. They could not allow the Whites (the reactionaries) to have a figurehead (a tsar's relative who wants to reclaim the throne) so it was historically necessary.

Now after you explain this to a capitalist and if they try to tell you that was wrong, tell them to look at the French revolution. The first bourgeois revolution. The same was done.

[Zero]

How about:

"Fuck you, its a t-shirt. Go back to reading your bible."

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 04:40 PM
i found out that cursing doesn't make your point any clearer. i rather kill em' softly. thanks but no thanks. :rolleyes:
Well, some of us get tired of debating, unless it's actually a debate, and not just some prick making a ground breaking anti-communist statement. I don't see the point in rising to the challenge. Telling them to fuck off makes them look like the bad guy.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Additives Free+Jun 18 2006, 07:14 PM--> (Additives Free @ Jun 18 2006, 07:14 PM)
[email protected] 18 2006, 04:40 PM
i found out that cursing doesn't make your point any clearer. i rather kill em' softly. thanks but no thanks. :rolleyes:
Well, some of us get tired of debating, unless it's actually a debate, and not just some prick making a ground breaking anti-communist statement. I don't see the point in rising to the challenge. Telling them to fuck off makes them look like the bad guy. [/b]
you make better sense when you take the time to explain your self. I sometimes don't get your short answers. and most of the time i take them as sarcasm.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Capitalists are very predictable. They'll use one of these topics to try to debunk your arguement.

- All communist countries are oppresive and poor
- Everyone can become rich in capitalism/People are poor because they're lazy
- It's unrealistic/planned economies always fail

Once you know these are wrong and you know how to counter it, you can debate a capitalist.

As for clothing, it matters. I've a che shirt and a hammer and sickle shirt. The che shirt I wear no problem, but the hammer and sickle shirt I don't really wear because I am scared that someone will get pissed at me because of Stalin's purges. If someone did come up to me though, I'd just say that marxism is a subject of much interest to me and I'm just expressing my thoughts or something like that

[bezdomni]

also the one about Lenin killing millions. some because they were christian or some sort of religion. and how he order the execution of the main Czar family. including the kids. REALLY?
No. Lenin didn't kill anybody, nor did he order the execution of anybody. There were casualties in the revolution and during the civil war, of course...but there were no formal state executions that were ordered by Lenin.


He did. He put a huge blemish on the word "communism." His only merit was, apparently, the great mustache.

http://lenin.redapollo.org/i/lenin-img1.jpeg
Most people would consider that a beard.

Anyway, Lenin did not "blemish" the word communism. Lenin's contributions to Marxist thought greatly expanded and improved the original ideas. Regardless of if you are a "leninist" or not, his analysis on imperialism has changed revolutionary thought for the better.

Anyway, about killing the Czar's family. Firstly, this was not an order from Lenin. He supported it, but he didn't force anybody to do it. They would have probably done it anyway. Secondly, who the fuck cares about the Czar? If a cappie starts defending the Czar and his family (who ruled Russia with an iron fist), then they are defending a tyrant and his blood reign. You can't make false accusations about Lenin killiing millions and say he was the worst person on earth, and then start defending the Czar, who actually WAS responsible for the deaths of millions.

[BobKKKindle$]

All communist countries are oppresive and poor

If they say that, firstly you run off the standard spiel explaining how these countries were in fact not Socialist, because Workers did not own and control the means of production, and therefore did not represent Marxism as a Political ideology. However, then you can go on to say that even if these 'socialist' countries did eventually collapse or were forced to undergo reform, by harnessing all the avaliable resources in the form of a Planned economy, many of these states tansformed from backward feudal contries to modern industrial states in a matter of decades - ref. USSR five year plans.

"We are Fifty to one hundred years behind the advanced Capitalist States. Either we catch up in ten years, or they will Crush us" - Josef Stalin

Furthermore, thanks to the efforts of the Bolshevik party, for the first time people in these countries had acess to education, healthcare, housing, a garuenteed job - for life. No, it was not of great quality, but that is still a great achievement.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 07:02 PM

also the one about Lenin killing millions. some because they were christian or some sort of religion. and how he order the execution of the main Czar family. including the kids. REALLY?
No. Lenin didn't kill anybody, nor did he order the execution of anybody. There were casualties in the revolution and during the civil war, of course...but there were no formal state executions that were ordered by Lenin.


He did. He put a huge blemish on the word "communism." His only merit was, apparently, the great mustache.

http://lenin.redapollo.org/i/lenin-img1.jpeg
Most people would consider that a beard.

Anyway, Lenin did not "blemish" the word communism. Lenin's contributions to Marxist thought greatly expanded and improved the original ideas. Regardless of if you are a "leninist" or not, his analysis on imperialism has changed revolutionary thought for the better.

Anyway, about killing the Czar's family. Firstly, this was not an order from Lenin. He supported it, but he didn't force anybody to do it. They would have probably done it anyway. Secondly, who the fuck cares about the Czar? If a cappie starts defending the Czar and his family (who ruled Russia with an iron fist), then they are defending a tyrant and his blood reign. You can't make false accusations about Lenin killiing millions and say he was the worst person on earth, and then start defending the Czar, who actually WAS responsible for the deaths of millions.
I confused Lenin with Stalin, sorry...