small businesses, big businesses

[rioters bloc]

i don't know much about how businesses work and stuff, and i've never worked for a small business (always been some kinda huge franchise). ideally i'd rather not support small OR big businesses, but living in a capitalist society that's rather hard (although dumpster diving and co-ops go a long way =D)

anyways. what is 'better' to support? my corner grocery store (which is rather expensive) or the bigger, more sterile but cheaper supermarket in the next suburb? or are they both just as bad therefore i should buy from whatever's most convenient for me?

help me out, i am really clueless.

[EusebioScrib]

It doesn't matter. Buying sweat-shop free clothes or refusing to eat McDonalds doesn't mean shit unless a massive amount of people do it. Don't waste time with crap like this unless you plan on a massive refusal, which is a great thing to organize.

[An archist]

I suggest doing what suits you best. I also suggest ignoring the post above me, it may not make a difference, but it does when a lot of people (seperately or together) do it

[rioters bloc]

yeah, i wasn't so much concerned with boycotting one than supporting another. like i know that my local grocer works 7 days a week for about 10 hours a day most weeks, he rarely has any time off, and he's considering selling the business cos he makes such little profit. but he's still a business owner.

also, even though i don't necessarily think that boycotting stuff is very effective, i am constantly bewildered by people who say things like 'don't waste time/energy on that'.. as though my *not* eating meat or *not* buying a certain product is sapping so much energy from me that i won't be able to put it into other forms of activism :blink:

[EusebioScrib]

I also suggest ignoring the post above me, it may not make a difference, but it does when a lot of people (seperately or together) do it

Ignore it? I said the same thing you just said :blink:


yeah, i wasn't so much concerned with boycotting one than supporting another.

What's the difference? If you support one, than you don't support the other, so you don't buy from it, hence boycotting.


like i know that my local grocer works 7 days a week for about 10 hours a day most weeks, he rarely has any time off, and he's considering selling the business cos he makes such little profit. but he's still a business owner.

Supporting small business is fairly useless if your trying to help maintain it. For the most part it's out of our control and the big capitalists always win in this battle. Smaller business oweners, from my experience, can be just a conservative or even reactionary as the bourgeoisie.


also, even though i don't necessarily think that boycotting stuff is very effective

Oh it's terribly effective! If enough people can boycott lets say oil or work for a week, could you imagine what would happen? :P


i am constantly bewildered by people who say things like 'don't waste time/energy that'.. as though my *not* eating meat or *not* buying a certain product is sapping so much energy from me that i won't be able to put it into other forms of activism blink.gif

You could be doing more useful things than worrying about wether or not you should buy this or that product. It can accumulate a lot of time.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Buy whats cheaper. Your going to support capitalism not matter what RB. You are not helping the world by eating out of a dumpster. The only change that will change class society permanently is a revolution.

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 02:23 AM
Buy whats cheaper. Your going to support capitalism not matter what RB. You are not helping the world by eating out of a dumpster. The only change that will change class society permanently is a revolution.
i don't care if i'm helping the world by eating out of a dumpster or not, vp. it sure as fuck saves me a lot of money that i don't have, though.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by rioters bloc+Jun 17 2006, 12:26 PM--> (rioters bloc @ Jun 17 2006, 12:26 PM)
[email protected] 18 2006, 02:23 AM
Buy whats cheaper. Your going to support capitalism not matter what RB. You are not helping the world by eating out of a dumpster. The only change that will change class society permanently is a revolution.
i don't care if i'm helping the world by eating out of a dumpster or not, vp. it sure as fuck saves me a lot of money that i don't have, though. [/b]
But you certainly think your purchases do something significant in a worldy context. Buy whatevers cheaper.

[apathy maybe]

The local can be potentially a comrade (what is it the Marxists say, the petit-bourgeois will become proletariat?) and this is why you should not shop lift from them. (If the owner sells the place, the will have to sell their labour to make do, unless they buy another place which I doubt they would.)

The smaller businesses are better then the big ones, this is true, but it gets to a point where they are all the same. If a small local has goods 3 or 4 times as expensive as the super market, I think they are probably making a tidy profit (I could be wrong however).

I still do not buy new clothes or crap like that (the rare bit of electronic stuff is the only stuff (and actually not much of that (i.e. none) recently)), I do not eat meat or often buy dairy goods (get lots out of dumpster though!) and even if it is not doing much, it is still a little bit.

I suggest do what is cheaper (plus shoplift, that is cheaper still!), plus "accidentally" damage stuff and get it out of the dumpster that night (I've tried this, but maybe it is the next next night, as stuff has not turned up yet).

[Ander]

From what I see, you should support the small guy. If he's considering closing the place down, he obviously isn't living a life of luxury and riches. He's simply trying to survive and provide food to people. Support him, not the huge corporations who's CEO's own mansions and drive Mercedes.

[afrikaNOW]

I don't understand how the corner grocery store is the enemy. He is part of the community. Not buying from him only hurts him, his family and the community in the long run if it shuts down. Ally with you, see if t here is any way he or other nearby grocery stores can donate food for feed the people programs.

uhuru

[bayano]

firstly, local/small businesses need to be assessed a bit. some exploit workers more than the big businesses which may be unionized or offer some benefits, but most are better to their employees overall, and are often family run. if its small, with a small staff, and they dont get treated like shit, absolutely support them, and generally anythings better than going for the big business. shop local or union. a nonunion big business is the last option. on the other hand, there are some things you cant dumpster or find at the local place, or else if your budget doesnt permit exclusively using the local place you have to occasionally go big business, but try to keep it to a minimum. i think that conscious consumerism, while not directly revolutionary, is still progressive. its what vegetarianism is, its what buying union (PBR, by the way, is union-made) is, its what participating in a boycott is, its what shopping local is, and generally it is one bit of discipline that is useful for leftists to observe.

also, find out the politics of the local businessowner, on some occasions theyre more left than you know, and find out if they do anything to support the community- financially or by helping inform people about events or stuff or by volunteering their space or product for groups or events. and if you generally choose them over the big business (when its something that cant be dumpstered or expropriated if thats what you normally do), theyll be more likely to let you put a poster for an event in their window, or leave some flyers where other patrons can pick them up.

[Janus]

Well, the corner grocery stores are generally locally owned so they are the lesser of two evils you could say.

But I would suggest just to do whatever works out best for you, which may have to be the larger market if you don't have a lot of money.

I generally get my food from the local farmers' markets that are a lot cheaper than the supermarkets.

[Cult of Reason]

Whichever is cheapest, unless of course you can afford to pay extra.

[Donnie]

i don't know much about how businesses work and stuff, and i've never worked for a small business (always been some kinda huge franchise). ideally i'd rather not support small OR big businesses, but living in a capitalist society that's rather hard (although dumpster diving and co-ops go a long way chacha.gif)

anyways. what is 'better' to support? my corner grocery store (which is rather expensive) or the bigger, more sterile but cheaper supermarket in the next suburb? or are they both just as bad therefore i should buy from whatever's most convenient for me?

help me out, i am really clueless.
Sadly either way your going to be funding capitalism. Just turning your back on capitalism and living a 'lifestyle' without capitalism is useless and is not productive towards to revolutionary left movement.

The main thing you need to do is get your idea's out there into the public and into the working class communities.

At the end of the day you have eat and keep your health up.

For example I shop at Iceland which is cheap store that sells frozen food I also shop at Aldi as well because they sell good fresh veg etc.

Sadly I work for Marks & Spencer but as I said revolutionary's need to keep them self sustained and I need some form of income to keep me going. I know, it annoys me that I work for such a vial company, but what keeps me going is the fact that I'am part of an organised revolutionary organisation that is contrabuting the revolutionary anarchist movement in Britain.

There is an intresting book you may like that will apeal to you because of you being an anarchist it's called. "Social Anarchism Or Lifestyle Anarchism: An Unbridgeable Chasm" and it's writting by Murray Bookchin, don't know if you've read it but basically Bookchin tries to answer several basic quiestions that affect all Leftists today. Will anarchism remain a revolutionary social movement or become a chic boutique lifestyle subculture? Will its primary goals be the complete transformation of a heirarchical, class, and irrational society in a libertarian communist one? Or will it become an ideology focused on personnel well-being, spiritual redemption, and self-realization within the existing society.

The book helped me form my social anarchism even more.

[Red Polak]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 19 2006, 08:24 AM
The local can be potentially a comrade (what is it the Marxists say, the petit-bourgeois will become proletariat?) and this is why you should not shop lift from them. (If the owner sells the place, the will have to sell their labour to make do, unless they buy another place which I doubt they would.)
yup, that's what I was going to point out.

Marx said about the petty-bourgeois eventually joining the proletariat and this is starting to happen.

Look at what supermarket giants like tesco is doing to these small businesses - driving them out by undercutting their prices. Let's not forget about the unethical treatment of tesco's suppliers as well. I'm not saying we feel sorry for the bourgeois, course not, but given the chance of supporting a small business over some massive, unethical, capitalist giant like tesco which rakes in billions in profits, then I pick the little business. Some other people have pointed out (I think) that these dudes don't get all that many holidays or whatever, and I think that's true - sure, they're still exploiting their workers and making profit off someone else's backs but I think the petty-bourgeois work quite a bit whilst doing this via long hours, few holidays etc and this is why I'd help them rather than the huge businesses.

Also, remember, during a revolution, who do you think would be more likely to come over to our side? the petty-bourgeois with a little bit of property to lose or the millionaire bourgeois pig with a lot to lose?

[Black Dagger]

I'd go with what's cheaper (though of course shoplifting/dumpster diving is 'cheaper' still) - are there any fruit vege markets near where you live? You could also buy cheaper produce there than probably at the big supermarket.

[bayano]

i repeat, local businesses are usually more willing to let you put posters in the windows or literature where other patrons can pick it up, and if they really are down with your cause, some of them will even donate time, product or space to a good cause (more often restaurants, bakeries, etc, but even stores sometimes). mine a little bit for their politics, a casual question next time one of the owners is the one at the cash register while youre buying a drink, find out if theyre sympathetic to anything you work on, then if they are, build a small alliance. working with one or two can increase your confidence on building alliances with more stores.