Cuba is going downwards - don't know whether this is true or

[Comrade Daniel]

I saw this program on the Dutch television this evening the said that the situation in Cuba was going downwards altough I support Cuba I more and more question whether it is still going the good way with Castro's Island here are some things I was really stuck with.

+ Why does Castro still take so much prisoners, and why do they get 20 years or so for having opposite opinion.
+ Why don't the prisoners get good medicines, clean water etc.
+ Why doesn't Castro allow a bit more freedom for his people I mean some objective newspapers can be one step forward and a multi-party democratic system in stead of only the Cuban communist party.
+ It seems that castro secret police took seizure of some strange things when they were investigating houses of people who were against the government like articles about human rights.
+ Why do the tourists get better food than the people.
+ Why are human rights organizations said to be contra-revolutionary?
+ Why do people from Cuba still try to persuade the west to force Castro not to rule his people with an iron fist?

Note: this isn't really all mine opinion but just what I saw on the news.

[sc4r]

Or maybe a better question would be why someone would post what has been the standard USA line for 40 years against Cuba in a forum devoted to supporting it when the answers are available both in this forum and in multiple other places on the net.

Why would someone assume as a first approximation that such a line is not grossly distorted ?

Why does the media continue to ask these same questions and ignore the answers ? What do you think ?

I would expect to see posts like yours on a cappie forum or in OI. not here.


(Edited by sc4r at 8:55 pm on May 7, 2003)

[Lefty]

Hmmm...which of those statements would you call "grossly distorted?"

[Severian]

All of those statements are distorted, if not outright false.

Cuba is not going downward. Economically, it is recovering from the "special period" after the collapse of the USSR. Politically, the working class is moving forward, taking more control of workplaces for example.

[Sensitive]

Things to read:
- Evidence in Cuba Trials Against U.S. Agents (http://www.latinamericabulletin.cafeprogressive.com/catalog.html)
- About that Cuba Letter: The "Democratic Left" and Castro (http://www.counterpunch.org/sherman04222003.html)
- Is U.S. planning aggression against Cuba? (http://www.workers.org/ww/2003/cuba0501.php)

[sc4r]

Quote: from Lefty on 9:09 pm on May 7, 2003
Hmmm...which of those statements would you call "grossly distorted?"


I absolutely will not go through them point by point; so I'll just briefly dispose of the first one by way of example.

Has even a single person been imprisoned in Cuba merely for having an opposite opinion (let alone for 20 years) ? No, they havent. Those people were imprisoned because they were paid agent provacateurs of the USA and CANF and in some cases mixed up with terrorsist activities (which massively increased in Cuba prior to the crack down).

If your automatic assumption is that it is the US press that presents an accurate depiction of such events then I would say you are in the wrong forum.

[Saint-Just]

Quote: from Comrade Daniel on 8:25 pm on May 7, 2003
I saw this program on the Dutch television this evening the said that the situation in Cuba was going downwards altough I support Cuba I more and more question whether it is still going the good way with Castro's Island here are some things I was really stuck with.

+ Why does Castro still take so much prisoners, and why do they get 20 years or so for having opposite opinion.
+ Why don't the prisoners get good medicines, clean water etc.
+ Why doesn't Castro allow a bit more freedom for his people I mean some objective newspapers can be one step forward and a multi-party democratic system in stead of only the Cuban communist party.
+ It seems that castro secret police took seizure of some strange things when they were investigating houses of people who were against the government like articles about human rights.
+ Why do the tourists get better food than the people.
+ Why are human rights organizations said to be contra-revolutionary?
+ Why do people from Cuba still try to persuade the west to force Castro not to rule his people with an iron fist?

Note: this isn't really all mine opinion but just what I saw on the news.


If I were to address your questions...

+he takes prisoners since he is still waging the class struggle. 20 years is likely the appropriate sentence.
+The prisoners don't get good medicines clean water etc... maybe this is a lie, or maybe Cuba would rather give this to revolutionaries than counter-revolutionaries
+A multi party system would deny the dictatorship of the proletariat, take away this and the country is nothing more than a bourgeois democracy. No 'objevtive' newpapers since the only truth is socialism.
+The counter-revolutionaries use such issues as 'human-rights' to flair up a smear campaign against socialism, this is why these materials may have been confiscated.
+The tourists pay for better food - the country needs that investment.
+See two points above for the 'human rights' organisation issue.
+Those people are reactionary bourgeois imperialists who wish for imperialist infection of the Cuban nation.

(Edited by Chairman Mao at 10:37 pm on May 7, 2003)

[exploding toast]

the press doesnt know what they are talking about... the only thing i listen to on the news is the weather and the trafic report all the other propoganda is useless

[redstar2000]

Comrade Daniel, may I offer a suggestion?

Get rid of that damn dummyvision set!

:cool:

[jjack]

Why don't the prisoners get good medicines, clean water etc.

It's the embargo. Cuba is still forced to be relatively self-sufficient, which is quite hard. There's only so much of everything to go around because trade is hindered. So when deciding whether to renovate a prison or a home, who should get first choice? Criminals, or law-abiding citizens?

Why doesn't Castro allow a bit more freedom for his people I mean some objective newspapers can be one step forward and a multi-party democratic system in stead of only the Cuban communist party.

Don't be fooled into thinking "state control" means that something is taken from the hands of the people. In most cases, this is far from the truth. Do you think that Cuba should try and emulate our system, where the media is only accessible to those who can afford to pay to set up their own printing press? If this were the case in Cuba, I can assure you that the only newspapers being printed would be the work of the CIA. This is what has happened throughout Latin America during the cold war in order to set the stage for a coup or invasion. State control allows for the proper regulation needed to 1) make sure everyone has equal access to the media, not only the extremely wealthy, and 2) maintain the integrity of the publication, ie: keep it free from foreign propaganda.

Your statement about the "one party system" is flawed as well. If I were to describe the Cuban system, I would call it a "no party system." The Communist Party does not play a role in elections. A very significant portion of Cuban government officials aren't even members of the party. Don't assume that all electoral systems are party-based just because the one you're most familiar with is.

It seems that castro secret police took seizure of some strange things when they were investigating houses of people who were against the government like articles about human rights.

We all know that the folks in Washington have Orwellian thought processes. The US government says they want to bring "democracy" to Cuba. Don't we know better than to believe that? Then why is it so hard to believe that they'd also cover their imperialist plans with empty rhetoric about "human rights?"

Why do the tourists get better food than the people.

What do you mean by better? I'm sure that because many of them come from western nations and can jet set around to exotic locations, that they can also afford fancy dishes and the like. But a human being doesn't need fine dining to survive. Give me a large pizza and I'll be able to eat for three days. It might not be the best diet, but it's sufficient. The cuban people are sufficiently nourished, better than a lot of Americans are.

Why are human rights organizations said to be contra-revolutionary?

See above.

Why do people from Cuba still try to persuade the west to force Castro not to rule his people with an iron fist?

This is a loaded question from the start. By posing the question like that, you assume that both sides of the debate take for granted that Castro "rules with an iron fist." I'd argue that first of all, that's not true. But that isn't really the issue.

What we should be asking is why so many people dissent against Cuba. Well, why do so many people dissent against any country? There's no single system that's perfect for everyone. You're always going to have a few people who are going to get pissed and bail on you. But I think that anti-Cuban sentiment is exploited for political gains, moreso than dissent regarding other nations.

Keep in mind, too, that messages of dissent are often twisted. It seems like I read in a post here the other day that the guy who blocked the Chinese military parade in Tiennamen Square was a Maoist. Seems kind of ironic that his action of protest would foster so much anti-communist propaganda if that's true.

Blah. I'm bored so I just thought i'd insert my $8 and two cents. Peace out folks.

[Dan Majerle]

There is no secret police in Cuba.

[Comrade Daniel]

Please it were things I heard on the news, constant anti-Castro news in Holland makes me sick. I hated it to post this but it, it was just what I heard on the news I didn't say I agree with them they are not my opinions I didn't want the ignorant cappies to post: damn! Your news agency is even better then the good 'ol news stations here or something.

[oki]

they allso get their news from reuters.
yes,what to believe?i think cuba isn't doin so bad for a communist country actually.and I hope they keep it up.on the other hand they can be critisized.and should be.communism isn't a solid perfect system,but one that grows and learns.someone that opposes what happens should be able to adress this in the gouv. structures without fearing to be locked up.this would vitalise the system.that's something different then opposision that works outside the system and tries to couner.

[jjack]

Political criticism is important. Mao believed in criticism and self-criticism, and that's the difference between China then and today. The people of Cuba are no doubt politically savvy as well, they aren't simply drones who do whatever they're told. There is healthy criticism within Cuban society

But there's a difference between something of the nature of a debate or petition or a protest march, and scheming clandestinely with a hostile government. It's a fine line to walk, but it's been blurred in the western media, conveniently for those who wish to portray Cuba as a police state.