Discrimination against gay clerics

[Janus]

I wasn't sure whether this would belong better in Discrimination or Religion so a mod can move it accordingly.

Anyways, a gay bishop has argued for gay clerics in the Episcopal Church. The Ohio Convention will vote on how far to go in seeking to prevent the ordination of more openly gay members. There is a possibilty that there may be a split.

Gay bishop 'not an abomination' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5082270.stm)

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

It troubles me that we live in a world where gay people don't see being religious like black people see being in the KKK. Regardless, I think gay priests should be allowed. The revolution isn't happening now, and any move to gain acceptance for homosexuality should be supported - although reformism is the wrong approach. Overall, I care little about this issue.

[TC]

Originally posted by Dooga Aetrus [email protected] 16 2006, 02:33 AM
It troubles me that we live in a world where gay people don't see being religious like black people see being in the KKK.
Thats a pretty dumb comparision...the KKK is a single political organization, religion is a type of organization.

The Episcopalian church supports homosexuality...the controversy is primarily about reactions from the Anglican church in Africa, which is affiliated to the Episcopalians in the US and the Church of England, but holds reactionary positions and frequently threatens to create a schism in the international Anglican Commune...so as a result, while the Episcopalians are strongly supportive of homosexual rights (they tend to have gay pride flags outside of their churchs, for instance), and have both homosexual members and clergy, they have to limit the amount of plublicity that their positions get in order to avoid creating a schism. For instance the last time they appointed a gay bishop with a partner (Gene Robison as Bishop of New Hampshire) the Nigerians threatened to disassociate from them.


Regardless, I think gay priests should be allowed.

This issue, actually, was never whether or not gays could be priests, but whether they should avoid appointing gay priests with gay partners as new bishops (there are already several gay bishops and one gay bishop with a partner, and many gay priests). They don't actually have any problems with gay clergy, they're afraid that high profile promotions of their existing gay clergy will result in a schism with their African affiliates.

The actual proposal anyways that they're debating, is not whether or not to prohibit gay bishops, or rather additional gay bishops, but whether or not they should approach it with more caution.


I wasn't sure whether this would belong better in Discrimination or Religion so a mod can move it accordingly.


I don't know...i'm going to move this religion because this is a political/religious issue with a liberal, left-leaning pro-gay church on gay bishops, not an issue of social discrimination against gays...if it ends up being more like a discussion of social discrimination though someone can move it back :-p.

[Comrade-Z]

Anyways, a gay bishop has argued for gay clerics in the Episcopal Church.

Arguing from their deeply irrational philosophical foundation, I think it is logical and consistent for godsuckers to discriminate against gay bishops. Gay bishops have no theological defense whatsoever. The bible clearly says that homosexuality is an abomination.

Either you dump the religious crap, you stop being gay, or you become a self-hating gay. And since it is impossible to just "stop being gay," your only two options left are to dump the religious crap, or become a self-hating gay.

I strongly recommend that gay bishops dump the religious crap.

[emma_goldman]

Originally posted by Comrade-[email protected] 16 2006, 03:22 AM
Arguing from their deeply irrational philosophical foundation, I think it is logical and consistent for godsuckers to discriminate against gay bishops. Gay bishops have no theological defense whatsoever. The bible clearly says that homosexuality is an abomination.

Either you dump the religious crap, you stop being gay, or you become a self-hating gay. And since it is impossible to just "stop being gay," your only two options left are to dump the religious crap, or become a self-hating gay.

I strongly recommend that gay bishops dump the religious crap.
Woohhooooo!!! How true!! :lol:

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Originally posted by TragicClown+Jun 16 2006, 03:14 AM--> (TragicClown @ Jun 16 2006, 03:14 AM)
Dooga Aetrus [email protected] 16 2006, 02:33 AM
It troubles me that we live in a world where gay people don't see being religious like black people see being in the KKK.
Thats a pretty dumb comparision...the KKK is a single political organization, religion is a type of organization. [/b]
My mistake. Replace religion with "Anti-gay Religion" (which I would argue is all of them) and my example stands. I was basically just saying that homosexuals are trying to reform an organization that is rooted in discriminatory practices against homosexuals. In short, they are practicing reformist tactics because they believe religion can be fixed. It can't be fixed any more than the KKK.

[emma_goldman]

Hmmm...I don't know about all religions being anti-gay.

For example,

Episcopalian gay bishop: http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=4458

www.gaymuslims.org

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Judaism

Also look at Unitarian Universalism.

Christian faiths on homosexuality,
1) Anglican: divided
2) "The Methodist Church of Great Britain views homosexuality as moral, ordains non-celibate gay clergy and blesses same-sex unions in a ceremony similar to marriages."
3)"The Metropolitan Community Church is an international fellowship of Christian congregations. It is considered by many to be a full mainline denomination or communion. There are currently 300 members congregations in 22 countries, and the Fellowship has a specific outreach to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender communities. Acceptance of homosexuality is an important part of its theology."
4) "The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the largest Lutheran church body in the United States, has a current policy which states that persons who are homosexual in their self-understanding are allowed to be ordained, but must maintain a lifestyle of celibacy."
5) "The Moravian Church declared in 1974 that gays and lesbians were full members of the Christian community."
6) Presbyterian: divided
7) Quakerism: divided
8) "The United Church of Canada, the largest Protestant denomination in Canada, affirms that gay and lesbian persons are welcome in the church and the ministry. "
9) "The Uniting Church in Australia allows for the membership and ordination of gay and lesbian people."

Look at same sex relationships in Islam and Taoism and Hinduism and Greco-Roman religion and the Native American shamanic religion.

Here: http://www.soulforce.org/

Their are different ways people worship, granted they are against the scriptures. It seems illogical to me to both reject parts of scriptures, even if in a good way, but still say the scriptures are holy and truthful (and still worship in a religion that is centered around this). Obviously, it&#39;s an outdated fairytale book. <_<

That being said, all religions suck. ;)

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by Comrade&#045;[email protected] 15 2006, 10:22 PM

Anyways, a gay bishop has argued for gay clerics in the Episcopal Church.

Arguing from their deeply irrational philosophical foundation, I think it is logical and consistent for godsuckers to discriminate against gay bishops. Gay bishops have no theological defense whatsoever. The bible clearly says that homosexuality is an abomination.

Either you dump the religious crap, you stop being gay, or you become a self-hating gay. And since it is impossible to just "stop being gay," your only two options left are to dump the religious crap, or become a self-hating gay.

I strongly recommend that gay bishops dump the religious crap.
Not quite. I actually used this article as a resource back when I was a liberal Christian.

http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexua...ble-walter-wink (http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-walter-wink)

(NOTE: I AM AN ATHEIST. DON&#39;T ACCUSE ME OF RELIGION JUST BECAUSE I THINK THAT NOT ALL RELIGIONS HAVE THEOLOGICAL JUSTIFICATION FOR HOMOPHOBIA.)

[Janus]

Arguing from their deeply irrational philosophical foundation, I think it is logical and consistent for godsuckers to discriminate against gay bishops. Gay bishops have no theological defense whatsoever. The bible clearly says that homosexuality is an abomination.
I think that the bishop was simply trying to persuade people that gay church members can still take Christ into their lives. However, I do see your point though.


I don&#39;t know...i&#39;m going to move this religion because this is a political/religious issue with a liberal, left-leaning pro-gay church on gay bishops, not an issue of social discrimination against gays...if it ends up being more like a discussion of social discrimination though someone can move it back :-p.
OK, I simply thought that this was an interesting situation.