Theism

[Avtomatov]

I want all theism gone, children should be removed from their theist parents, religious speech banned, and religious schools and churches gone. Progress needs to be imposed. Does anyone agree with me?

[LSD]

I want all theism gone

Well, who doesn't! :D

I'd say that it's a given that all forms of superstition need to be eventually purged from the public consciesness. "Faith" in any form is a destructive and corrosive social force and anyone even feigning rationality can come to no other conclusion.


children should be removed from their theist parents

While I agree that all efforts must be made to prevent the indoctrination of children, I really don't think that a massive relocation program is a viable option at this point in time.

There simply isn't anywhere available to send all the children that you would be "removing" from their parents.

Personally, I think that we need to adopt a more pragmatic policy, by which we start with the most serious cases and deal with the worst instances of oppressive indoctrination first.

That means that fundamentalist "theism" and "orthodox" religious education would be banned; and anyone attempting to "teach" their children abusive notions of "submission" or "obedience" would be stripped of their parental duties.

Obviously any religious education is detrimental, but most is survivable; fundamentalist "hijab"-style education, however, is often not. So before we start talking about a complete restructuring of how society deals with the family, how about we address the abuse that's happening now.

Eventually, of course, we're going to have to completely restructure the way that children are educated. Not only on matters of religion, but in all things, the "traditional" family simply won't "cut it" in a progressive society.

Quite frankly, the parental monopoly on children is an anarchronistic relic of a long-dead era and has needed replacement for a long time. I can't say what specifically will supplant it, but I can say with absolute certainty, that it will be supplanted.

Let's hope it's sooner!


religious speech banned

I'm afraid I must disagree with you on this one.

As much as may disagree with religious speech -- or racist speech, or fascist speech, or homophobic speech, etc... -- I nonetheless must respect the fundamental human right to free expression.

I simply cannot trust any "authority" -- especially not the bourgeois state -- to properly and "fairly" institute a censorship policy.

Children need to be protected from deception and indoctrination, but as adults, we're more than capable of reading religious bullshit without falling victim to its lies.

Yea, having to deal with "theistic" nonsense may not be pleasant, but it is an unfortunate nescessity in a free and democratic society.


and religious schools and churches gone

Well I can certainly agree to that!

What people do in their own homes on their own time is their own business, but there should be no expenditure of public resources or use of public land in the name of "God".

Churches and "religious schools" should be torn down and converted into something useful, like say a garbage dump! :)

[Avtomatov]

I wish there were a state that supported all these policies aswell as socialism. Why is nothing being done? We could win territory democratically then deport the capitalists and theists, then annex more territory democratically. Couldnt we?

[Free Left]

I want all theism gone, children should be removed from their theist parents, religious speech banned, and religious schools and churches gone. Progress needs to be imposed. Does anyone agree with me?

Are you serious? :angry: What do you want, a police state? "Progress needs to be imposed", so you are going to force people to become atheist? China will tell you that dosen't work.
Not to take this personally, but you sound like a despot. You propose to rip children form their parents, abolish free speech, torch churches and ban religion??? :blink:

[Brekisonphilous]

Originally posted by Free [email protected] 16 2006, 09:54 AM

I want all theism gone, children should be removed from their theist parents, religious speech banned, and religious schools and churches gone. Progress needs to be imposed. Does anyone agree with me?

Are you serious? :angry: What do you want, a police state? "Progress needs to be imposed", so you are going to force people to become atheist? China will tell you that dosen't work.
Not to take this personally, but you sound like a despot. You propose to rip children form their parents, abolish free speech, torch churches and ban religion??? :blink:
This is how I feel. What a nutjob. Sounds like a fascist in red disguise.

I have a question about churches in a post revolutionary world... You say that people cannot use resources or public land to build churches, well what happens when hundreds of proletariat are transforming housing into makeshift church and worship forums and begin meeting there? Because you know this is what would be the result of eliminating churches. It isn't going to work. There will be no authority to tell people they can't worship anything or how their kids will be raised.

[More Fire for the People]

I think a ‘fair’ allotment would be one church per formal religion per town, if convient. It’d be a site to see — Catholics and Protestants all under one roof.

[Avtomatov]

You couldnt get rid of religion completely. You could ban churches and that would hurt organized religion. You could ban religious schools to prevent the indoctrination of youth. People have a right to a secular education. That hurt religions numbers too.

[Free Left]

You couldnt get rid of religion completely. You could ban religious schools to prevent the indoctrination of youth. People have a right to a secular education. That hurt religions numbers too.

In my country and continent (Europe-Ireland) that's what all the schools are doing they are going through a process of disconnecting religion from education.
But it's gonna take time because a lotta schools were set up by religious groups who still hold influence.

Anyway there are a load of schools that have no religious influence in them so it is possible to attend a secular school.



You could ban churches and that would hurt organized religion

WTF?!?! :blink: Why? People go to churches out of their own free will! You are denying people a right if you torch all the churches! :angry:
It would be like destroying all bookstores or football stadiums cos someone thought that these were "wrong" or "evil"! :angry:
Anyway, if you destroy churches it will do fuck all good! It will just raise popularity for that religion and people will start to hold secret services.
What you are proposing, Avtomat, is a police state!

[LSD]

I have a question about churches in a post revolutionary world... You say that people cannot use resources or public land to build churches, well what happens when hundreds of proletariat are transforming housing into makeshift church and worship forums and begin meeting there?

What do you mean "what happens"? If people chose to open up their homes to large groups of "parishoners" to "worship", that's what they'll do.

So long as they are not using otherwise needed land or resources to do so, it's perfectly within their rights.

That is, I shouldn't have to sacrifce for their "right to religion" any more than I would for any other irrational hobby (like, say, fly-fishing). So the massive stone churches and imposing minuretted mosques would go... anything that goes on in the private home though is just that, private.

It should be noted additionaly, however, that while religion will doubtlessly not "dissapear" in a post-revolutionary society, it will certainly not be the social force it is today. In terms of "churches" specifically, I really don't think you're up-to-date with the times. Today religious attendance in the first world is somewhere around 20% and has been consistantly dropping for decades.

Imagine where it will be twenty years! :o

A revolutionary proletariat is an awakened proletariat and while it will not be universally devoid of "faith", in order for a successful worker-controlled society to be established, the distinct majority need to be thinking rationaly and coherently.

In a real communist uprising -- that's without "vanguards" or "enlightened rulers" -- class-consciousness and material understanding are nescessarily elevated to the level where the inherent fallacy of "belief" becomes apparent.

And minus the alienating and psychologically corrosive influence of capitalsim, the material motivations that drive people towards "God" will no longer be present. And absent both its idealist and materilaist roots, religion cannot help but crumble.

It won't take any "authority" to smash the churches, the people will do it themselves.

Barcelona here we come! :lol:

[Brekisonphilous]

Yeah, ok. you explain it a lot more rationally than another person I talked to in a thread about religion.
And I agree with ending all religious schooling but not so much with destroying these huge churchs. I think they should be converted into something else rather than just tearing it down and wasting resources.it could be transformed into living quarters, markets, temporary housing, anything. i live in a rather large town of a population of abvout 34,000. There are nearly 50 churches in this town! and a lot of them are really really big. Seems like a waste to just tear them down?


I think each town should be allowed like 1 church for everyone to worship in. relgion should be integrated if they want to worship on communal land.

[Jon]

This is an interesting discussion. I suspect it would be easier to convince religious types of more rational lines of thought if we could help them see the world more clearly.

What do you say though, when you suggest to a fanatical zeallot that religion should be banned and before you can explain why that would benifit society, they reply "well, that is what bible prophecy predicts- that religion will be banned" Now you have only reinforced their thinking.


J

[Free Left]

What do you say though, when you suggest to a fanatical zeallot that religion should be banned and before you can explain why that would benifit society, they reply "well, that is what bible prophecy predicts- that religion will be banned" Now you have only reinforced their thinking.

Are you Serious? :blink: :blink: :blink:
I've heard some dumb ideas about religion but that one.... :lol:

[Zero]

It is now official. LSD can make a 1 and a half page reply to a one-liner.

[Eleutherios]

Well, it was an eloquent and well-thought-out response, and totally worth the reading time. 5 stars! :star: :star: :star: :star: :star: