Belgium & Holland vs. Chavez? - Acting as Puppets for U.S. I

[redstar2000]

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=6820

Is what passes for a "left" in Belgium and Holland aware of this shit?

Do they care?

:cool:

[oki]

hm.eventhough it's allready bad enough that these ships take orders from the US,(which I doubt by the way,they are trying to stop drugs traffic to dutch territory)I even moreso doubt that the cia would tell the dutch/belgiums about their support of an illegal coup agains a democraticly elected gouv.the ducth gouv. would never support that,and neighter would the belgium gouv.more realistic is to say that the US used these countrys.the dutch gouv. could never support something like this without it coming out,sooner or later.our secret service cant do shit without the gouv. knowing about it,and if this would happen without the gouv. knowing,they will eventually find out,and heads would roll I'm sure.

but there is more then enough evidence that the US was actively supporting the coup against chavez.

on the other hand,the dutch had patriots in turkye untill last week,for turkkish protection,during the irak war.the dutch have f-16's in afganistan,taking part in combat.we had ships involved in kosovo.but all this is no secret.it's an outrage I think,but not a secret.

[Guardia Bolivariano]

The beauty of this is that they Still have the balls to complain why Venezuela allies Itself with countries like Iran, China or Russia when the yanks are our "closest" allies.

[Severian]

Belgium at least is not acting as a "puppet" of U.S. imperialism in this, as the thread subtitle asks. Rather, Belgian imperialism is a rival and adversary of U.S. imperialism, part of the Franco-German alliance.

[immortal211]

America will do what ever it wants with smaller defenseless nations. They wanna contriol the world and their starting to expand now in the Mid-East in the last 3 years. America like every other empire will fall it just will take time for that to happen.

[Severian]

Well, that's ironic. An article about an imperialist action by Belgium and Holland turns into a discussion of how awful U.S. imperialism is. As if Belgium and Holland are not themselves imperialist powers.

Hello! Indonesia? King Leopold's Congo? Murder of Patrice Lumumba? Hello?

Look, people, it's not the Cold War anymore. The imperialists are falling out among themselves, which is actually the normal state of things, like in the first half of the 20th century.

And just like before WWI, most leftists and "socialists" are lining up with one or another imperialist power, rather than opposing the whole lot of them. When the chips are down, most leftists will probably support "their own" imperialists, just like most socialists did in WWI.

This thread's a good example of why.

[oki]

I just don't think that you can accuse them of imperialistic behaviour in this case.belgium was one of 3 opposing countrys against the US demand of navosupport.and they are after sharon.the dutch forces overthere are guarding the dutch antilles,which is part of the kingdom,by choice.they are autonome.there is a lot of drugs trafficing from south america,and they patrol like a coastguard.accusing them and the belgiums of helping teh US to overthrow chavez has no ground whatshowever.there is no proof,only suspicion.and you say that the cold war is over,but at the same time point to the colonial PAST of these countrys?that's history too.neighter of teh two act in an imerial way nowadays.nieghter supported the war in Irak,without UN approvel.

for the rest I will never support any politics but no politics.but it's another thing to just decide that all gouv. are criminal and then start looking for something to accuse them of,even if it's not true.there are lots of other issues by the way you CAN pinn them on.globalisation and beeing ritch while 70 % of the world is hungry for starters.

[革命者]

Unilever and Dutch Royal Oil

[redstar2000]

Severian, I think that in the long run, your analysis is correct. Things will look indeed much as the world looked before World War I; the U.S.A. (with junior partners England, Israel, Japan and Australia) vs. China vs. Russia vs. the European Union.

What complicates the matter is the clear drive of U.S. imperialism for absolute global domination...socialists in countries other than the U.S. (and its lackies) are going to be tempted and perhaps even feel compelled to support "their own bourgeoisie" to the extent to which that bourgeoisie resists U. S. imperialism.

Yet another complicating subjective factor: from what I can tell, the rising bourgeoisie of China and Russia seem to have the "self-confidence" to "stand up" to U.S. imperialism; the bourgeoisie of "old Europe" seem less adequate to the challenge -- which, by the way, is why I characterized the Belgian and Dutch cooperation with the U.S. against Venezuela as "puppet-like".

But I think this analysis will be more accurate in a decade or two than it is now.

:cool:


(Edited by redstar2000 at 6:24 pm on May 8, 2003)