Cuban regime one day will fall?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Been reading a bit regarding the similarities of the Soviet Union and Cuba... There is so much a like. And much of the similarities contributed to the fall of USSR, I believe, even if a indirect/subtle way.

Queues were always a distinct part of Soviet culture. Always shortages and queues. Same with Cuba.

Unrealistic view of the outside world due to lack of a freer press, correct information etc. One reason the SU fell, some have said, was because Dallas or something like that was viewed on SU channels, to show how "decadent" the rich was in the U.S. The people thought, wow, they have a much better life than us. And yet this was a program, if I recall correctly, who portrayed the life of the rich. So almost everyone people became envy of the outside world. Same in Cuba, just now there are spanish sope operas instead of U.S. ones.

Foreigners visiting USSR, were constantly being asked by the population for gum, money whatever. They viewed thsoe who cam to the USSR, as millionaries. Same in Cuba.
Lack of democratic tradition and real democracy. Same in Cuba.

Lack of free press, especially in the newspapers and television. same in cuba.

Also let us not forget the huge black market.

Basically a lot of the problems SU had, Cuba has. And I believe Cuba will fall if these things and others are not fixed.

As long as the people do not feel they are in charge, the Cuban regime is destined to fall.

[ComradeOm]

You're right. Cuba needs capitalism! Uncle Sam will fix all those problems!

[Karl Marx's Camel]

You are not being constructive. Do you have anything constructive to contribute to?



Cuba needs capitalism!
So capitalism means less black market, less poverty, less idiotic economic restrictions, a more free press, more freedom of speech, more democracy/people's rule? If so, by going by that definition, I do believe Cuba needs "capitalism".

[Rawthentic]

Well, yes of course Cuba will fall. It cannot become communist, it isnt even socialist. It is more of a welfare state and increasingly state-capitalist, just like the USSR. It stalled the capitalist process, and it cannot skip it, weve seen what happens when nations, or dictators for that matter, have tried to impose socialism on a feudal or semi-feudal nations: purges, death, starvation, state-capitalism, Mao, Stalin, etc. Such is thw workings of Leninism, and the Party. But yes, Cuba must fall. It is so far behind, economically and technologically, the rest of the nations of the world because capitalism has been stopped. Not that I want capitalism in Cuba, but it sadly cannot skip the historical process.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

So capitalism means less black market, less poverty, less idiotic economic restrictions, a more free press, more freedom of speech, more democracy/people's rule? If so, by going by that definition, I do believe Cuba needs "capitalism".

I think cuba really just needs democracy.

So long as they have leftist governements, and canada, china and the EU to trade with then capitalism wont be neccessary.


If it does go capitalist, the cubans will become second class citizens with americans owning everything.

the freedom of press will merely be what the North American "party" line is. As it will probably be owned by murdoch or a clone of his.

Campared to the U$ blockade, what the Cuban government imposes is of limited importance.

[Rawthentic]

what do you mean by democracy? I agree with NWOG that Cuba needs capitalism for progression because Cuba will never get anywhere with the way they are.

[Ander]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 06:57 PM
I think cuba really just needs democracy.


Agreed. Definitely.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 10:18 PM
I agree with NWOG that Cuba needs capitalism for progression because Cuba will never get anywhere with the way they are.
So the only way a nation can advance is through capitalsim? Well shit why are we even trying this whole 'socialism/communism' thing? After all we would never advance....

[Led Zeppelin]

NWOG, I suggest you stop making these stupid threads about Cuba. You've made like dozens of them and they're are stupid as hell. Also, you seem to make a lot of threads asking shit questions.

Just an observation.

[Revolution67]

I am not sure, if pointer to this BBC article has been posted on the forum before. This article was posted on their website in 2001 and I think it is still relevant today. People MISS USSR!!! You might want to criticize Cuba and USSR, but the thing is new economic order is hardly better and is even worse in some scenarios.

Collapse of USSR: 10 Years ON (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/europe/2001/collapse_of_ussr/maps/default.stm)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I agree with NWOG that Cuba needs capitalism for progression

I've never said Cuba needs capitalism for progression. You are mistaken.

Cuba is one about the 50th best country to live in. And that's not so bad.

According to Human Development Index, Cuba is worse than Costa Rica, Argentina and Chile, but better than Brazil, Dominican Republic, and Ecuador. Cuba is better than most countries in the world.


People MISS USSR!!! You might want to criticize Cuba and USSR, but the thing is new economic order is hardly better and is even worse in some scenarios.


True.

However, should we not criticize the old order, full of flaws, just because it was slightly better than the current?

Even Fidel has admitted that it is most likely that the revolution will fall from within, rather than from any outside force.

[Si Pinto]

I think it has already fallen. It ceased to be a revolutionary movement the moment it won it's fight in Cuba and 'dug in', the same can be said for the Soviet Union, from the moment it stopped at it's borders it was always doomed to fall.

I'm afraid that history has shown that 'socialism in one country' just doesn't work, not because of the government of that particular country, whether it be democratic or revolutionary, but because in a world governed by capitalists, a truly socialist country is always going 'against the grain' of the rest of society. The capitalists will undermine, isolate and eventually destroy the socialist element. Leaving nothing but an 'empty shell' into which the capitalists infiltrate their own interests again.

[YKTMX]

Well, Marx said that all capitalist regimes (like Cuba and the US) would one day fall and make way for proletarian socialism. So, if Marx is right, then the Cuban regime will "fall" one day.

[Dreckt]

Cuba is this "socialist" nation as long as Castro and Raul is alive. When they die, who knows what will happen? Maybe Cuba will become what China is today? Laos and Vietnam did. North Korea is waiting for Kim Jong Il to die, then it will become capitalist.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 02:17 PM
Cuba is this "socialist" nation as long as Castro and Raul is alive.
:lol:


The good doctor's health is now biologically linked with the forces of history is it?

The beat of Castro's heart has nothing do with what type of society Cuba is or will be.

[Comrade-Z]

Castro's going to die soon, right? Even Castro must realize this. So, he's going to lose the ruling position, right?

Wouldn't it make sense, then, to cultivate some dissident leftist movements. Continue to ban rightist public demonstrations, rightist press, etc., but allow dissident communist movements to have public demonstrations, free press, etc.?

The worst thing that could happen would be that the dissident leftist movements "get out of hand" and threaten the ruling class.

At this point, Castro relinquishes his ruling position, and the entire government abdicates. These actions, combined with the Castro regime's worthwhile anti-imperialism and social services over the years, restrains revolutionary violence against this old ruling class (maybe...although I wouldn't be so sure...)

The worst thing that could happen would be a more progressive version of the Castro regime comes to power. The best thing that could happen would be some brief experiments with workers' control and real communism in Cuba.

I don't know, would it be in Castro's self-interest to follow this course of action at this late stage in life? Or would it be unreasonable to expect the Castro regime to enact this policy? Probably unreasonable, I would guess, since it would entail threatening the current ruling class, and no ruling class likes to be threatened. But does the current ruling class face an even bigger threat with the prospect of doing nothing and risking it all falling apart to U.S. imperialism once Castro dies?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Wouldn't it make sense, then, to cultivate some dissident leftist movements. Continue to ban rightist public demonstrations, rightist press, etc., but allow dissident communist movements to have public demonstrations, free press, etc.?

Why?

Why not common people? You know, most people in Cuba aren't altruistic regime-lovers.

Cubans have a lot of views, on like everything. Why should they be silenced?
A press isn't free when only communists can speek freely.
In Cuba, its like this:

The newspapers and television is controlled by the communist party and the military. One time the news speaker read the news. He was carrying a military uniform. That's how closely tied they are.


Small cases are acceptable. Like economic problems are unproblematic to discuss.

Readers can write to the newspapers on smaller cases and it can be published. But these are small things, like the discotheque is playing music too loud.

Last year, from March to October, the main subject people talked about was the large and long blackouts every day. But the press didn't write anything about it, except a few local newspapers which said the power would be cut in certain neighbourhoods.

But even the smallest critique of Fidel si a no-no. Even Cuban [communist] journalists think it has gone too far.

In Cuba, some people on a local level have a lot of power and influence. Like head of companies. If I recall correctly, in order to leave the island, you need a "liberation letter", which you must get from your employeer. Now, if the guy who hired you is a good guy, he will give you it. Then it shouldn't be a big problem. But some of them are bossy, and you will have to pay him personal money in order to get the liberation letter. A lot of bosses do this.

It's like this all over Cuba. One rule here, one rule there. This is illegal here, that is legal there. In one place Cubans can be banned from internet cafe's, but in another place, Cubans can freely come and go into hotels and sit down and log on to the internet.

And a lot of people (especially those on a semi-high level, CDR's, people in the military bureaucracy, head of companies etc.) make a lot of bucks and control people's lifes with this power. They can make your life hell. Quite a few people have been arrested because it has been claimed this guy do this and this, without any proof!

Like in 2005, the govt had a crackdown on drugs... So what did the govt do? They tried to jail all rastafari people, because it was said they were dealing hashish/marijuana. Of course, some of them did, but far from all of them.

Luckily, most of the rastafaris managed to get their hair cut before the police got them.

Now, if Cuba would've had a free press, these things could be criticized, and be brought to an end. But that is not a case now, because Cuba doesn't have a free press.

[Operation Red Flag]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 05:55 PM
Now, if Cuba would've had a free press, these things could be criticized, and be brought to an end. But that is not a case now, because Cuba doesn't have a free press.
Well a simple way to disprove this is to point to America; it enjoys 'freedom of the press' and human rights abuses identical to those in Cuba occur. And the odd source for your anti-Castro claims wouldn't go amiss NWOG.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

The big "discussion show" in Cuba, is called the "Roundtable". They often sit around a big round table and talk about things in Cuba and in foreign countries. Castro is often on this show, which can last for many hours and often keep going until 1-2 AM at night.

After the other has said theirs, Fidel bring up his opinions, speeches, etc. And then the others just sit and nod (because it is a nod or yes yes program). Everyone agrees.

How insanely stupid do you think this is for a people who have a lot of opinions but cannot express them fully, if at all, in public?



Well a simple way to disprove this is to point to America; it enjoys 'freedom of the press'

I would disagree.

Why do you have to mix the US into everything? Why not focus on Cuba and its lack of freedom fo the press?

Do you think the cuban population do not want a free (or at least a more free) press?


Would you have anything against a press in Cuba that could critcize the govt of cuba freely without fear of being jailed/censored?

[Rawthentic]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+Jun 13 2006, 02:57 PM--> (Jazzratt @ Jun 13 2006, 02:57 PM)
[email protected] 13 2006, 10:18 PM
I agree with NWOG that Cuba needs capitalism for progression because Cuba will never get anywhere with the way they are.
So the only way a nation can advance is through capitalsim? Well shit why are we even trying this whole 'socialism/communism' thing? After all we would never advance.... [/b]
Good god! I never said that capitalism was BETTER! Anyway, capitalism cannot be skipped. We talk about this "whole socialism/communism thing because it is a better thing. But in order to advance to communism, we must advance through capitalism. So yes, the onlyw way for a nation to advance to communism is through capitalism.

[Rawthentic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 01:05 AM

I agree with NWOG that Cuba needs capitalism for progression

I've never said Cuba needs capitalism for progression. You are mistaken.

Cuba is one about the 50th best country to live in. And that's not so bad.


No, I am not mistaken buddy. Cuba must advance through capitalism in order to advance to communism. Yes, I understand that Cuba will have class-based society, but that will in turn cause class antagonisms, which can, after the capitalist process, cause revolution. You've read Marx before right?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

You are only mistaken when you say

I agree with NWOG that Cuba needs capitalism for progression
I have never agreed on that. ;)

[kaaos_af]

Cuba needs capitalism like I need the black death.

But then, maybe the black death is too kind a comparison to capitalism.

Just to quote a June 8 article on Cuba:

"Where did new Haitian President Rene Preval go on his first
trip abroad?

Cuba.

With whom did Bolivian President Evo Morales meet the day before he
nationalized his country's natural-gas industry?

Cuban President Fidel Castro.

And which country did a high-level St. Vincent official recently
describe as a "stabilizing force" in the region?

Cuba.

As Latin America elects more and more presidents who lean to the left
and the Bush administration's standing in the region slumps, experts say
Castro is enjoying his warmest relations with his hemispheric neighbors
in decades."

~Frances Robles
Knight Ridder Newspapers
'Castro, Cuba enjoying newfound popularity'