Does Al Qaeda exist?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Does Al Qaeda exist?

http://100777.com/node/614


Discuss

[Connolly]

[I couldnt get through to that link]

IMO, No. Not in the way its portrayed.

Just look at the terrorist group on tkb.org.

I think the whole idea is laughable.

50,000 members. :lol:

That sounds blown out of proportion.


Bin Laden's personal fortune and a variety of his investments and business partnerships throughout the years have contributed to the pool of Al-Qaeda funds. Additionally, Al-Qaeda receives funding from charities all over the world.

Must be some personal fortune, and he must be very good at moving that cash around.

According to Galloway on Thursday, AlQaeda's leader in Iraq, (that guy who died), was responsible for only 21 bombings in the entirety of the Iraq war.

Thats very few dont you think - with a membership of 50,000 I would expect alot more.

Also. I wonder if anyone bothered to check the membership of AlQaeda before they became well known.

Did this 50,000 members just appear out of know where, right from beneath the US's nose?

Such a membership must make it the biggest terrorist organisation in the whole world. FARC only have 30,000 - and I could actually go and visit these people.

My unqualified opinion is that its a load of shit. Such a membership is bloated by including various other, and unaffiliated groups. I could claim to be "AlQaeda", anyone can.

Resistance fighters in Iraq can be called "AlQaeda".

This myth of AlQaeda is the perfect invention for invading other countries for Imperialist agendas. The US have been poking at the Islamic fire for years trying to provoke an attack on itself and its allies.

1997(I think), Sudans largest medical plant was destroyed by US cruise missiles because it was thought to be a "chemical weapons factory".
1998 cruise missiles attacked Afghanistan attempring to kill "terrorist leaders".
1998 cruise missiles attacked Yemen also trying to kill "terrorists".
Various other strikes occured on Iraq and Palestine over the years. God knows what else the US have been up to.

In one of the clips of BinLaden talking, a white male in a black suit, by accident, walked into the filming - I have seen this clip once. Was he AlQaeda too? Binladen clearly works for the US.

The excuse to invade countries was the "communist threat", since thats gone, a new one needed to be invented - AlQaeda terrorism.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Good points.


FARC only have 30,000 - and I could actually go and visit these people.

Have you met the FARC?

Anyways, how do you know they are 30,000?

[violencia.Proletariat]

Did it exist in the 1980's when Reagan created it? YES. Does it exist now? No. It is a fictional enemy based off of common anti-western feelings put into action. It was created in order to excuse the plunder of the middle east.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Of course AQ exists, but quite simply it isn't the threat western politicians make it out to be.

[Connolly]

Have you met the FARC?

:lol:

What I meant is that its possible to vist their geographic location. I could probably travel into the columbian jungle and end up meeting some (if I dont get my head shot off). Apparently they control 30% of the columbian area.

AlQaeda on the otherhand is an organisation of some 50,000 members and I doubt I could just "go and find them". look at the list of countries they operate in...

Base of Operation: Afghanistan; Albania; Algeria; Australia; Austria; Azerbaijan; Bahrain; Bangladesh; Belgium; Bosnia; Egypt; Eritrea; FRY (Kosovo); France; Germany; India; Iran; Ireland; Italy; Jordan; Kenya; Lebanon; Libya; Malaysia; Mauritania; Netherlands; Pakistan; Philippines; Qatar; Russia; Saudi Arabia; Somalia; South Africa; Sudan; Switzerland; Tajikistan; Tanzania; Tunisia; Turkey; Uganda; United Arab Emirates; United Kingdom; United States; Uzbekistan; Yemen

Its fucking bollox.

A bunch of alienated Muslim teenagers who have no affiliations to AlQaeda or Binladen whatsoever, all of a sudden become members of this highly organised 50,000 strong terrorist militia :angry: Its rubbish.


Anyways, how do you know they are 30,000?

Sorry, my mistake. I was confusing that with the 30% geographic area. 12,000 apparently.

That makes the comparison even more favoursome then. :lol:

[pcb]

AQ is basically is a very loose afiliation of groups who use the name to highlight their own actions. Since 1989 the guerrilla units that were trained by the west to push the soviets out of Afganistan were cast aside. OBL only came to the fore due to his problems with the Saudi Royal family(US troops Based near the holy cities).
Due to the indifference the west had to muslim concerns around the world he took it upon himself to organise attacks upon innocent people under the banner of Jihad. AQ believes that attacks upon innocent people will force a rethink by western governments, which in truth has seen some movement i.e. Spain.
The amount of money spent on this war on terror beggers belief. If the money had been spent on basic human wants, his ability to attract people would have dried up. AQ as an idea is more dangerous than band of nutters, you can kill the nutters but not the idea if the reasons for the idea are not addressed.

[Connolly]

AQ is basically is a very loose afiliation of groups who use the name to highlight their own actions.

But take the London bombings. A bunch of alienated teens.

How do we know whether they used the name AlQaeda or not?

If they blow themselves to bits and nobody knows beforehand whats going to happen - who uses the name AlQaeda? - since they are dead?

The Media impose this title?
The AlQaeda leadership (who are working for the US) claim this in their name?

Or did they announce their intents and affiliations on an "Islamic website" beforehand, possibly risking detection?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Of course AQ exists,

How so?

Why so certain?

[pcb]

AQ is the name used by western governments to collate all Islamic terrorist attacks outside of Israel under one umbrella. Western Governments actions and backing of repressive states were used as the excuse for the London bombings by the four murderers. No excuse for what they did. The title of AQ has worked wonders for OBL, all Islamic terrorists now have a recognisable brand they can use to put their excuses across. Do you suggest that the leadership of AQ is in some kind of coalition with the likes of Rumsfeld and Negropointe, if so please explain. Conspiracy theory?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 07:39 PM

Of course AQ exists,

How so?

Why so certain?
Why are you so certain that the IRA exists?

[Connolly]

AQ is the name used by western governments to collate all Islamic terrorist attacks outside of Israel under one umbrella.

So, are the terrorists calling themself AQ or are the governments putting this label on them?

If its the government, then AQ isnt an organisation at all - rather, a category.


Do you suggest that the leadership of AQ is in some kind of coalition with the likes of Rumsfeld and Negropointe, if so please explain.

I dont think there is much "leadership" in what might be AQ.

I do believe Binladen to be working for the US. (thats an unqualified assertion).

I hate to bring up Michael Moors docu, but his family was "shipped" out first. Thats abit odd!!

Its not too difficult to imagine a scenario were the US pays BinLaden to frame himself as leader of an international terrorist organisation, putting out videos and speeches every once in a while to rally young alienated teens to their destruction, while also giving the US an exact excuse needed for military spending, the curbing of public freedoms and imperialist intervention. Its really not too difficult to do!!

They can make up just about anything.


Conspiracy theory?

Would you rather believe in this global 50,000 strong terrorist organisation of nutballs ready to blow themself up in the name of "Allah", with no real political goals or direction, led and coordinated by all supremo Binladen?, despite virtually all the worlds nations involved in the search, the largest intelligence organisation on earth and the technological ability to listen and track phone calls, he still cant be found.

Its complete arse. Id rather be a conspiracy theorist than believe media spin with hidden agenda's.

[Andy Bowden]

Al Qaeda is an idea, not an organisation. Thats what makes it less dangerous than a cohesive organised terror group, and more dangerous than a hierarchial terror group.

Osama could be killed tommorow - the idea and concept would still exist.

[Gura]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 13 2006, 10:13 PM

I hate to bring up Michael Moors docu, but his family was "shipped" out first. Thats abit odd!!
The official reason for this would be that it was to prevent the members of his family from reprisals, but that makes no sense. In any other case, wouldn't the family members have been held for questioning/interviewing, as often happens to the family members of a suspected murderer?

Also, it is quite possible that Osama is dead, and has been for quite some time. In December of 2001, Fox News (granted, it's not exaclty a reputable news service) reported that UBL was already dead: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

Now maybe he is and maybe he isn't, but if he really has a kidney disease (as has been reported), so acute that he requires a dialysis machine, isn't the idea of him traipsing around the mountains of Afghanistan rather implausible?

[Janus]

Al Qaeda doesn't really exist in the way that some people believe. The group is quite decentralized which allows for more mobility and causes less problems if there is an informant.

A lot of jihadis passed through Bin laden's training camps in Afghanistan, which might be where the figures are from but most of them are probably loosely affiliated with Al-Qaeda.

Bin Laden has basically become a tool of the US, used to inspire fear and provide support for its harsh policies.

[Kamraten]

Now lets take a few steps back. who is Usama bin laden? bin laden is a man trained by the CIA to work for USA government in Afghanistan against the former soviet union. Usama and the taliban regime has been from the begining supported and funded by the US government.
As well as other tyranns and facism countries in the middle east.

Even in 1999 the United states paid the Taliban regime millions of dollers. Why would Usama suddenly go against that nation that has funded him trained him and given power over a regime like the talibans.

Usama bin laden is a joker, a card in the sleeves for united states to pull out whenever he is needed , whenever some president ratings are going down bam! they pull out mr bin laden to put the subject on something else.

I am saying that there is no doubt that the WTC attack was engineered by the American goverment, blamed on a terrorist cell. to create an enemy, to create fear couse that is the only way you can controll your people by fear. And how do you spread that fear, threw the media wich the government controlls.

Adolf hitler used the same strategi when he took the power over germany, they burned their own buildings and blamed it on the enemy. and you all know what happen after that.
Concentration camps like guantanamo was created.

Now there are terrorist in the world, but not as an army, a few cells here and there fighting for their own liberations or religious belief, but the US has painted out like we stand against a global terrorism army. That is the perfect way to spread the fear against its citizens an enemy that can be anywhere, mayby even your neighbour it can strike you whenever and wherever. So always feel fear wherever you go!.
Now i did at first believe that this war was against terrorism, i soon relalise that this war was against the muslim religion but yet again i was wrong. This war is against us its against the western civilians we are the main target of this fake staged war against terrorism. We are the one that by fear gives away our liberties, our rights and our freedom. We are letting them create a police state upon ourself enslaving our own people becouse we fear!, jesus christ people are putting micro chips in their arms, what we are wittnesing today in the world is the dream of every facism dictatorship in history.

So does Al qaida exist, most likely as they are funded by the western world. Do they have any power to accualy do any real terrorism? ya if countries like united states or england helps them to do it. So who is the terrorists? our own government. Its time to wake up from the hypnothic brainwash the media has put us in, and realise the truth. if you can handle the truth that is.

[Connolly]

Now lets take a few steps back. who is Usama bin laden? bin laden is a man trained by the CIA to work for USA government in Afghanistan against the former soviet union. Usama and the taliban regime has been from the begining supported and funded by the US government.
As well as other tyranns and facism countries in the middle east.

Even in 1999 the United states paid the Taliban regime millions of dollers. Why would Usama suddenly go against that nation that has funded him trained him and given power over a regime like the talibans.

Usama bin laden is a joker, a card in the sleeves for united states to pull out whenever he is needed , whenever some president ratings are going down bam! they pull out mr bin laden to put the subject on something else.

I am saying that there is no doubt that the WTC attack was engineered by the American goverment, blamed on a terrorist cell. to create an enemy, to create fear couse that is the only way you can controll your people by fear. And how do you spread that fear, threw the media wich the government controlls.

Adolf hitler used the same strategi when he took the power over germany, they burned their own buildings and blamed it on the enemy. and you all know what happen after that.
Concentration camps like guantanamo was created.

Now there are terrorist in the world, but not as an army, a few cells here and there fighting for their own liberations or religious belief, but the US has painted out like we stand against a global terrorism army. That is the perfect way to spread the fear against its citizens an enemy that can be anywhere, mayby even your neighbour it can strike you whenever and wherever. So always feel fear wherever you go!.
Now i did at first believe that this war was against terrorism, i soon relalise that this war was against the muslim religion but yet again i was wrong. This war is against us its against the western civilians we are the main target of this fake staged war against terrorism. We are the one that by fear gives away our liberties, our rights and our freedom. We are letting them create a police state upon ourself enslaving our own people becouse we fear!, jesus christ people are putting micro chips in their arms, what we are wittnesing today in the world is the dream of every facism dictatorship in history.

So does Al qaida exist, most likely as they are funded by the western world. Do they have any power to accualy do any real terrorism? ya if countries like united states or england helps them to do it. So who is the terrorists? our own government. Its time to wake up from the hypnothic brainwash the media has put us in, and realise the truth. if you can handle the truth that is.

Well said comrade!.

[Dreckt]

The funny thing, in this war on terror, is that it bears resemblance to George Orwell's 1984.

First - al-Quaeda, this mythological secret organisation that can do anything, anywhere anytime it wants. I see al-Qaeda not as an organisation, but more as an idea which people use to comit terrorist activity (or restistance actiity depending on what the situation is).

Similar to 1984 - Emmanuel Goldstein is bin Laden, he can never be captured. And even if he was captured, he would not be able to provide a list of all his coraborators - "such a list does not exist".

Besides, is it not strange that the US, the strongest nation on earth, can not find bin Laden? I mean, why can they not track from where bin Laden's tapes are coming from, I mean, like placing spies at Al Jazeera (who recieves the tapes)?

Secondly, the war on terror is, just like 1984's war on Eurasia and Eastasia, not fought to defeat the enemy, it is meant to last forever. The war is fought against the people in order to distract them from the real problems, and to keep the overclass in power. This is why the USSR was the perfect enemy, and it was also why the US never celebrated "the fall of communism", rather, they were shocked and disappointed.

Take a look on the US timeline since WW2: they are always involved in some conflict, wage war against someone somewhere.

[Ander]

This sounds like some 1984/V For Vendetta shit going on. We need a V.

[rebelworker]

Im sure Al Qaeda exists in the smae way that crimethinc or RAAN do. There is a loose network of people out there that claim the naem when it suits them.

There may be a few organised key groups or individuals but most of the organisation exisits in their own mystique and propaganda.

If the US was occupied by relegious fundamentalists, and was completely dirt poor coupled with some financial support from really rich guys with the help of KGB training camps RAAN or crimethinc might be alot similar in size...

[Connolly]

Im just wondering about the London bombings, maybe some of you guys can remember.

Who claimed those bombings in the name of AlQaeda?

Did the bombers? if so, how?

or did either the state or the AlQaeda "leadership"?

Or maybe im wrong altogether - maybe it wasnt claimed to be AQ at all? :(

[pcb]

AQ never claimed the bombing, due to the video of one of the murderers' stating why. The problem is that the government used as a example for more repressive legislation in this country. As I have stated before AQ as an idea scares the crap out of the population due to the idea being reffered to after most teerorist actions.Chomsky writes about this kind of propaganda in a couple of his books.
Remember more people have starved to death than have been killed by the Terrorists over the last 10 years yet money to combat AQ dwarfs money to save the starving millions.

[Connolly]

Remember more people have starved to death than have been killed by the Terrorists over the last 10 years yet money to combat AQ dwarfs money to save the starving millions.

Yeah, I never thought of it that way. :unsure:

Thats a sorry statistic :( :unsure: :blush: :(

[Mariam]

Why would Usama suddenly go against that nation that has funded him trained him and given power over a regime like the talibans.

I thought it had something to do with the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait!
Bin Laden wanted to enter kuwait with his talibanis or mujahiden, but the US refused!?


Usama bin laden is a joker

and what makes him worse is those videos every now and then.


Osama could be killed tommorow - the idea and concept would still exist.

So it still exists?

[Gura]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 05:14 PM

Why would Usama suddenly go against that nation that has funded him trained him and given power over a regime like the talibans.

I thought it had something to do with the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait!
Bin Laden wanted to enter kuwait with his talibanis or mujahiden, but the US refused!?
During the Persian Gulf War, the US stationed troops near Mecca and Medina, Muslim holy sites.

[ComradeOm]

Bin Laden and the Western bourgeoisie are a perfect match. Both parties need each other to forward their domestic agendas. Both find each other to be the perfect bogyman with which to scare their followers/people/subjects.

[Dreckt]

According to Wikipedia, there are paramilitary groups in some countries formed to "combat terrorism". What is more "shocking" is that they function under NATO, or at least did during the cold war:

In July 2005, the Italian media revealed the existence of the Department of Anti-terrorism Strategic Studies (DSSA), a "parallel police" network composed of two former members of Gladio, NATO's secret "stay-behind" paramilitary organizations. Investigations were opened against approximately 20 members of the DSSA. The DSSA leaders, who had profited from the 11 March 2004 Madrid train bombings to try to set up their paramilitary network, were put under house arrests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladio

[Ander]

Yeah, Gladio was extremely fucked up.

[clockwork]

:ph34r: I have always thought that whole Osama Bin Laden history was made up by us government to have an excuss to attack Iraq.

Al Qaeda being a network of people all over the world with the same interest makes a lot of sense to me. How come the US haven't found Osama?

Smells like bullshit.

By the way...I'm new in here so hey everybody...have a nice day :lol:

[backwardsbulldozer]

al Qaeda literally means "the base" and I imagine (correct me if I'm wrong on this) as used by Osama bin Laden it means just that- his followers and collaborators. I don't know if he ever meant it to be the formal name of an organization, but I would doubt it. There are followers and associates of bin Laden, some of which take paramilitary action, but they have none of the power that is believed of them.

[GraylySquirrel]

Al Qaeda is America's own creation.

Not in the clandestine cover-up sense of the word either. Thats a whole other issue :P

The American Goverment and its neo-con think tanks have made Al Qaeda out to be this great evil. The "new USSR", the epitome of the "Anti-American." They had their perfect scapegoat, analogous to 1984 and V for Vendetta as some have already mentioned.

The thing is, any joker with a simple knowledge of basic chemistry can cook up a bomb, blow shit up, then claim to be "part of Al Qaeda" If they claim to be part of Al Qaeda, they will get the attention they want from the capitalist western world. And thats all terrorisim is really about. Getting attention to get your message out.

Is Al Qaeda a massive highly organized terror group? No. More like a bunch of complete religious crazies bound together only by their beliefs, and a desire to become famous.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Al Qaeda doesn't exist (video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBVVs9hcmRY&search=al%20qaeda)

[bolshevik butcher]

I think Al Quieda does exist as a very loose network of cells in contact with each other but not much more. It's not a centralised army and all of it's operations certainly aren't directed by Bin Laden or anything like that. I also think that Al Quieda is an irrelevancy in Iraq and the death of Al Zerqaurwai will make little difference. It's not like most of theinsurgency was in radio contact with him or saw him as their leacer.

[BurnTheOliveTree]

Hmm. I never quite considered the possibility that they don't exist at all, on any level... Interesting. It's certainly a sad truth that any terrorist attack is instantly blamed on Muslims, and then from that, well, they're obviously Al Qaeda. :rolleyes: Some even seem to be attention whores, like the guy (Al Zarqawi?) that was all over the news for admitting to being part of Al Qaeda.

-Alex

[Gura]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 25 2006, 08:50 AM
I also think that Al Quieda is an irrelevancy in Iraq and the death of Al Zerqaurwai will make little difference. It's not like most of theinsurgency was in radio contact with him or saw him as their leacer.
Al-Qaida in Iraq (Zarqawi's group) made up less than 10% (and I've heard less than 4%) than the insurgency.

I find it wery interesting that the man who replaced Zarqawi is al-Muhajir, which means "foreigner" in Arabic. It seems the equivalent of shouting at the top of their lungs "IRAQ IS CONTROLLED BY FOEIGNERS FROM OUTSIDE IRAQ! THIS IS NOT AN IRAQI INSURGENCY!" Wouldn't the leaders of al-Qaida want to make it seem as though AQ in Iraq was a largely Iraqi insurgency, so as to draw in Iraqis who are opposed to Islamic fundamentalism but would be likely to throw in their lot iwith AQ to get rid of the US?


al Qaeda literally means "the base" and I imagine (correct me if I'm wrong on this) as used by Osama bin Laden it means just that- his followers and collaborators. I don't know if he ever meant it to be the formal name of an organization, but I would doubt it.
I've heard it also refers to the Mujahidin base of operations during the Afghan war.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Wasn' it documented a few months ago on the news that some soldiers in Iraq were caught with explosives in their car?