Why Most Young Americans Become Republicans

[Kuro Morfos]

1. It makes them fit in with the crowd. Fitting in with the crowd is considered especially cool at a young age. Those who do not wish to follow the crowd are looked down upon, if not hated and despised. Conformity is essential at a younger age. Go majority, down with the minority.

2. Being a Republican makes any male feel bad-ass. To a younger male, protecting his manhood is one of his top priorities. Being a Republican shows that he has a large penis. Showing that he hates gays, loves war, hates minorities, loves guns, hates taxes, loves massive gas guzzling automobies, he proves to everybody that he is masculine and worthy of the title called "A Man". Manhood is important afterall.

3. The Republican Party appeals to emotions such as hate, fear, and ultimately greed. Since young people have less developed brains, these emotions influence them much more than do older people. Young people make most of their decisions with their life based on these emotions. They hate those who are different, fear what they do not understand, and feel selfish and unwilling to fulfill any collective cause.

4. Young people grew up during the Bush Administration, hence they do not know that different viewpoints even exist. Since most of their highschool and college aged lives took place after 9/11, that I have no memory of anything before this such militantly nationalistic times. Since this is the case, they have it set in their minds that this situation is the universal situation, and they must continue to be chauvinistic about their country, and accuse anybody who disagrees of being a traitor.

5. Young people love mass media. Mass media is their prime source of happiness, without that they are both miserable and loosers. Mass media in this country is bought out by right-wing corporations such as Clear Channel and Fox. Left leaning viewpoints are not permited on these programs. Also, hit show South Park is extremely anti-left, and most young people watch that cartoon. Since mass media favors the right, young people follow on since that is where they get their entertainment.

6. Young people generally do not think about the world as a whole, but rather their inmediate situation. Since their inmediate situation is nothing but venomous right-wing propaganda, they believe that viewpoint is the world. Since they are unaware anything outside their experiences and what they were told, they follow these political/philosophical/moral/social beliefs without question. Consequently, they are imbedded in our traditions and are completely incapable of thinking out of the box. Of course, such a psychology is not adequate with being a liberal, or anywheres left of center for that matter.

7. Young people are obsessed with their territory. That territory is America. Since militant nationalism is already encouraged by popular media how it is, they buy it like flies on a bright lamp. This form of territorial nationalism appeals to their psychology. Consequently, such issues as protecting our borders, supporting our troops, waving the flag, etc... become extremely important to them. Since young people also share the aforementioned characteristic of only caring about their inmediate situation, they view that one moral truth is correct and that everybody else is wrong. Young people do not even know that different opinions are possible. This of course also contributes to militantly nationalistic views.

8. Young people about to live their adulthood lives. Young people believe that they will grow up to be rich, succesful, hard working, moral, prosperous adults. The first consequence to this is that they view taxes and social welfare as theft against them. Since they are dead sure that they are going to be well off as years to come, they want to abolish the income tax, eliminate all public programs that help the poor, eliminate environmental restrictions, etc.... Additionally, since young people believe that they will live a prosperous life, they don't want any low life criminal to ruin that. As a result, they want a police state that keeps them safe, more laws cleaning up the moral degeneration of this society, a larger military, border patrol, a weaker constitution, etc.... Of course, such viewpoints are right leaning would eventually lead to the GOP as their political choice. Young people afterall, believe these viewpoints are universal and unopposed.

[Zero]

I'd say that #1 is true for every ideology really. Remember that the majority of people who don't care, also don't care about being hurded. That apathy is one of the things that will need to go.

#2 makes a lot of sense to me.

#3 is definately true.

#4. Well, most kids who have 'grown up' under the Bush regieme are too young to be influenced by politics (generally anyway), most kids who are smart enough to realise what the game is, and how to play (15-20) have lived through the Clinton presidency as well. Though he was just as much of a puppet as GWB is.

#5. South Park is anti-leftist? As far as I've seen they make fun of everyone and everything.

#6. Agreed. MTV plays more of a role in my generation then the History Channel, or just plain old picking up a book.

#7. Couldn't agree more. A few weeks ago I witnessed four rednecks hoisting a Confederate flag in the back of their aging 4x4 truck.
A. This is Oregon
B. They lost
C. Nobody gives a shit about 'States Rights' anymore. Your either blindly nationalistic or you aren't get out of the 19th century bullshit and into the 21st century bullshit.

[emma_goldman]

Well ya know the same could be said about the Democrats too mostly...

I'd add religion to that list. And vanity.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Firstly, you are saying young people want such and such. Not all young people want that, and, in an effort to bash republicans, you are generalizing youth. However, some of your claims about why people would be republican are quite accurate.

[PRC-UTE]

Or is it because a very large number of yanks (notice I didn't say all ;) ) are semi-literate idiots terrified of science, immigrants, speaking a second language and are waiting for jesus to come back any day now. :lol: The republican party appeals to their base emotions.

[bezdomni]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 06:50 AM


#7. Couldn't agree more. A few weeks ago I witnessed four rednecks hoisting a Confederate flag in the back of their aging 4x4 truck.
A. This is Oregon
B. They lost
C. Nobody gives a shit about 'States Rights' anymore. Your either blindly nationalistic or you aren't get out of the 19th century bullshit and into the 21st century bullshit.
:lol: :lol:

In OREGON? What the FUCK?!

I don't understand what the deal with the confederate flag is. On top of all the ideological and historical bullshit behind it...it's just fucking ugly.

[theraven]

1. It makes them fit in with the crowd. Fitting in with the crowd is considered especially cool at a young age. Those who do not wish to follow the crowd are looked down upon, if not hated and despised. Conformity is essential at a younger age. Go majority, down with the minority.


except being a repubclian was hardly a "fitting in thing" in my high school. in fact i am not aware of any hs where being a firmly one or another poltiical party helped you fit in.


2. Being a Republican makes any male feel bad-ass. To a younger male, protecting his manhood is one of his top priorities. Being a Republican shows that he has a large penis. Showing that he hates gays, loves war, hates minorities, loves guns, hates taxes, loves massive gas guzzling automobies, he proves to everybody that he is masculine and worthy of the title called "A Man". Manhood is important afterall.


again no one i know is a repubcalin to feel bad ass or masculine. most peopel who go one way or another in HS about po9litcs do so because they are a bit nerdy in that regard.


3. The Republican Party appeals to emotions such as hate, fear, and ultimately greed. Since young people have less developed brains, these emotions influence them much more than do older people. Young people make most of their decisions with their life based on these emotions. They hate those who are different, fear what they do not understand, and feel selfish and unwilling to fulfill any collective cause.

on the contrary young people are far more likely tobe idealistic and give for a cuse, hence all those 19 yr olds doing peace corp and such. also the GOP does use emotions to dirve voters, but its polices are far less emotion based then the democrats.


4. Young people grew up during the Bush Administration, hence they do not know that different viewpoints even exist. Since most of their highschool and college aged lives took place after 9/11, that I have no memory of anything before this such militantly nationalistic times. Since this is the case, they have it set in their minds that this situation is the universal situation, and they must continue to be chauvinistic about their country, and accuse anybody who disagrees of being a traitor.


which expalisn why howard deans supporters are all the old folks....and why this board has so few young people...


5. Young people love mass media. Mass media is their prime source of happiness, without that they are both miserable and loosers. Mass media in this country is bought out by right-wing corporations such as Clear Channel and Fox. Left leaning viewpoints are not permited on these programs. Also, hit show South Park is extremely anti-left, and most young people watch that cartoon. Since mass media favors the right, young people follow on since that is where they get their entertainment.

your forgetting liberal MTV, not to menion family guy which is slghtly liberal, and american dad which is extremely liberal.


6. Young people generally do not think about the world as a whole, but rather their inmediate situation. Since their inmediate situation is nothing but venomous right-wing propaganda, they believe that viewpoint is the world. Since they are unaware anything outside their experiences and what they were told, they follow these political/philosophical/moral/social beliefs without question. Consequently, they are imbedded in our traditions and are completely incapable of thinking out of the box. Of course, such a psychology is not adequate with being a liberal, or anywheres left of center for that matter.


right young poele are so very right wing...


7. Young people are obsessed with their territory. That territory is America. Since militant nationalism is already encouraged by popular media how it is, they buy it like flies on a bright lamp. This form of territorial nationalism appeals to their psychology. Consequently, such issues as protecting our borders, supporting our troops, waving the flag, etc... become extremely important to them. Since young people also share the aforementioned characteristic of only caring about their inmediate situation, they view that one moral truth is correct and that everybody else is wrong. Young people do not even know that different opinions are possible. This of course also contributes to militantly nationalistic views.

many young peol are nationlsitic..plenty are not. again evidneced by this board.


8. Young people about to live their adulthood lives. Young people believe that they will grow up to be rich, succesful, hard working, moral, prosperous adults. The first consequence to this is that they view taxes and social welfare as theft against them. Since they are dead sure that they are going to be well off as years to come, they want to abolish the income tax, eliminate all public programs that help the poor, eliminate environmental restrictions, etc.... Additionally, since young people believe that they will live a prosperous life, they don't want any low life criminal to ruin that. As a result, they want a police state that keeps them safe, more laws cleaning up the moral degeneration of this society, a larger military, border patrol, a weaker constitution, etc.... Of course, such viewpoints are right leaning would eventually lead to the GOP as their political choice. Young people afterall, believe these viewpoints are universal and unopposed.
lmao...

was this supposed to be mocking jimmy c?

[CCCPneubauten]

theraven, I'm not going to destroy your weak rebuttals...BUT....your 'Libertarian Neo-Con' title makes NO sense. One is statist one isn't. Just though you'd do better picking one side or the other.

[theraven]

1) considiering the OP how serius do you expect my repies to be?

2) i am liberatian on some issues and a neo con on others.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 03:59 AM
1) considiering the OP how serius do you expect my repies to be?

2) i am liberatian on some issues and a neo con on others.
Spell Check is a beauty.

And your politics make NO sense.

[BobKKKindle$]

No, His Politics Make Perfect Sense. He has no firm or consistent principles of Political orientation, his stand on Issues is dictated by which stand will best benefit and preserve the position of the Ruling class. A Reactionary Pig. ;)


and why this board has so few young people

Blatant ignorant Assertion. I think almost all the people on RevLeft are below 25.

[theraven]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 06:14 AM
No, His Politics Make Perfect Sense. He has no firm or consistent principles of Political orientation, his stand on Issues is dictated by which stand will best benefit and preserve the position of the Ruling class. A Reactionary Pig. ;)


and why this board has so few young people

Blatant ignorant Assertion. I think almost all the people on RevLeft are below 25.
i was being sarcastic-pointing out that so many young people are commie (well not many but a some)

[SmithSmith]

They control the media and the media shapes people is opinions.

[Publius]

None of my friends are Republican.

Most are totally apolitcal.

[Angry Young Man]

How does voting Amer-nazi make you a badass. It's simply contradictory, as they are just following a norm. Surely a badass plays by his own rules.
I wouldn't really class myself a badass, more of an eccentric; but I don't follow any set rules if I feel them stupid or pointless, especially from some right-wing religious fundamentalist!

[FidelCastro]

Originally posted by Kuro [email protected] 13 2006, 06:15 AM
1. It makes them fit in with the crowd. Fitting in with the crowd is considered especially cool at a young age. Those who do not wish to follow the crowd are looked down upon, if not hated and despised. Conformity is essential at a younger age. Go majority, down with the minority.

2. Being a Republican makes any male feel bad-ass. To a younger male, protecting his manhood is one of his top priorities. Being a Republican shows that he has a large penis. Showing that he hates gays, loves war, hates minorities, loves guns, hates taxes, loves massive gas guzzling automobies, he proves to everybody that he is masculine and worthy of the title called "A Man". Manhood is important afterall.

3. The Republican Party appeals to emotions such as hate, fear, and ultimately greed. Since young people have less developed brains, these emotions influence them much more than do older people. Young people make most of their decisions with their life based on these emotions. They hate those who are different, fear what they do not understand, and feel selfish and unwilling to fulfill any collective cause.

4. Young people grew up during the Bush Administration, hence they do not know that different viewpoints even exist. Since most of their highschool and college aged lives took place after 9/11, that I have no memory of anything before this such militantly nationalistic times. Since this is the case, they have it set in their minds that this situation is the universal situation, and they must continue to be chauvinistic about their country, and accuse anybody who disagrees of being a traitor.

5. Young people love mass media. Mass media is their prime source of happiness, without that they are both miserable and loosers. Mass media in this country is bought out by right-wing corporations such as Clear Channel and Fox. Left leaning viewpoints are not permited on these programs. Also, hit show South Park is extremely anti-left, and most young people watch that cartoon. Since mass media favors the right, young people follow on since that is where they get their entertainment.

6. Young people generally do not think about the world as a whole, but rather their inmediate situation. Since their inmediate situation is nothing but venomous right-wing propaganda, they believe that viewpoint is the world. Since they are unaware anything outside their experiences and what they were told, they follow these political/philosophical/moral/social beliefs without question. Consequently, they are imbedded in our traditions and are completely incapable of thinking out of the box. Of course, such a psychology is not adequate with being a liberal, or anywheres left of center for that matter.

7. Young people are obsessed with their territory. That territory is America. Since militant nationalism is already encouraged by popular media how it is, they buy it like flies on a bright lamp. This form of territorial nationalism appeals to their psychology. Consequently, such issues as protecting our borders, supporting our troops, waving the flag, etc... become extremely important to them. Since young people also share the aforementioned characteristic of only caring about their inmediate situation, they view that one moral truth is correct and that everybody else is wrong. Young people do not even know that different opinions are possible. This of course also contributes to militantly nationalistic views.

8. Young people about to live their adulthood lives. Young people believe that they will grow up to be rich, succesful, hard working, moral, prosperous adults. The first consequence to this is that they view taxes and social welfare as theft against them. Since they are dead sure that they are going to be well off as years to come, they want to abolish the income tax, eliminate all public programs that help the poor, eliminate environmental restrictions, etc.... Additionally, since young people believe that they will live a prosperous life, they don't want any low life criminal to ruin that. As a result, they want a police state that keeps them safe, more laws cleaning up the moral degeneration of this society, a larger military, border patrol, a weaker constitution, etc.... Of course, such viewpoints are right leaning would eventually lead to the GOP as their political choice. Young people afterall, believe these viewpoints are universal and unopposed.

your definition of a Real Man is strange. I consider myself a real man but I don't have gays or love war. I consider myself a mans man because I love to eat red meat, drink beer and drive fast things. I come from a family of manly men, it's how I was raised and all of them vote liberal.

[CubaSocialista]

Originally posted by FidelCastro+Jun 20 2006, 01:45 PM--> (FidelCastro @ Jun 20 2006, 01:45 PM)
Kuro [email protected] 13 2006, 06:15 AM
1. It makes them fit in with the crowd. Fitting in with the crowd is considered especially cool at a young age. Those who do not wish to follow the crowd are looked down upon, if not hated and despised. Conformity is essential at a younger age. Go majority, down with the minority.

2. Being a Republican makes any male feel bad-ass. To a younger male, protecting his manhood is one of his top priorities. Being a Republican shows that he has a large penis. Showing that he hates gays, loves war, hates minorities, loves guns, hates taxes, loves massive gas guzzling automobies, he proves to everybody that he is masculine and worthy of the title called "A Man". Manhood is important afterall.

3. The Republican Party appeals to emotions such as hate, fear, and ultimately greed. Since young people have less developed brains, these emotions influence them much more than do older people. Young people make most of their decisions with their life based on these emotions. They hate those who are different, fear what they do not understand, and feel selfish and unwilling to fulfill any collective cause.

4. Young people grew up during the Bush Administration, hence they do not know that different viewpoints even exist. Since most of their highschool and college aged lives took place after 9/11, that I have no memory of anything before this such militantly nationalistic times. Since this is the case, they have it set in their minds that this situation is the universal situation, and they must continue to be chauvinistic about their country, and accuse anybody who disagrees of being a traitor.

5. Young people love mass media. Mass media is their prime source of happiness, without that they are both miserable and loosers. Mass media in this country is bought out by right-wing corporations such as Clear Channel and Fox. Left leaning viewpoints are not permited on these programs. Also, hit show South Park is extremely anti-left, and most young people watch that cartoon. Since mass media favors the right, young people follow on since that is where they get their entertainment.

6. Young people generally do not think about the world as a whole, but rather their inmediate situation. Since their inmediate situation is nothing but venomous right-wing propaganda, they believe that viewpoint is the world. Since they are unaware anything outside their experiences and what they were told, they follow these political/philosophical/moral/social beliefs without question. Consequently, they are imbedded in our traditions and are completely incapable of thinking out of the box. Of course, such a psychology is not adequate with being a liberal, or anywheres left of center for that matter.

7. Young people are obsessed with their territory. That territory is America. Since militant nationalism is already encouraged by popular media how it is, they buy it like flies on a bright lamp. This form of territorial nationalism appeals to their psychology. Consequently, such issues as protecting our borders, supporting our troops, waving the flag, etc... become extremely important to them. Since young people also share the aforementioned characteristic of only caring about their inmediate situation, they view that one moral truth is correct and that everybody else is wrong. Young people do not even know that different opinions are possible. This of course also contributes to militantly nationalistic views.

8. Young people about to live their adulthood lives. Young people believe that they will grow up to be rich, succesful, hard working, moral, prosperous adults. The first consequence to this is that they view taxes and social welfare as theft against them. Since they are dead sure that they are going to be well off as years to come, they want to abolish the income tax, eliminate all public programs that help the poor, eliminate environmental restrictions, etc.... Additionally, since young people believe that they will live a prosperous life, they don't want any low life criminal to ruin that. As a result, they want a police state that keeps them safe, more laws cleaning up the moral degeneration of this society, a larger military, border patrol, a weaker constitution, etc.... Of course, such viewpoints are right leaning would eventually lead to the GOP as their political choice. Young people afterall, believe these viewpoints are universal and unopposed.

your definition of a Real Man is strange. I consider myself a real man but I don't have gays or love war. I consider myself a mans man because I love to eat red meat, drink beer and drive fast things. I come from a family of manly men, it's how I was raised and all of them vote liberal. [/b]
Socialist machismo with a tinge of Romanticism = Good.

Mindless reactionary misogyny = bad.

[Janus]

The way I see it is that it depends a lot on the family and therefore, their class. Most of the Young Republicans I know are pretty well off and are simply following in the steps of their parents.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

:lol: I don't think the farther right you are, the larger penis you have. Otherwise I'd be a fascist
:lol:

[Loknar]

What the fuck are you people talking about? Most yuoung people where i live are either neutral or liberal.

And Id say republicans have more balls because liberal guys would rather have a soybean enema and talk about oprah with their girlfriends.

actually though im a centrist.

[Kuro Morfos]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 02:46 AM
Most yuoung people where i live are either neutral or liberal.

You obviously live in the eastern states.

[Jazzratt]

Funny thing is that most of those could be under why do so many young people vote democrat, but I guess that's the nature of the two headed beast of american semi democratic capitalism.

[The Resistor]

Since young people have less developed brains, these emotions influence them much more than do older people.



What? I don´t agree :P

[Abolish Communism]

EVERY study done of this kind has shown that children are far more likely to be the political party of their parents until they are 25. After 25 they begin to change, but that change only occurs in 10% of the children.

Worldwide, children tend to follow their parents religioius, political, and family ideology.

[Raj Radical]

Originally posted by Abolish [email protected] 29 2006, 02:35 PM
EVERY study done of this kind has shown that children are far more likely to be the political party of their parents until they are 25. After 25 they begin to change, but that change only occurs in 10% of the children.

Worldwide, children tend to follow their parents religioius, political, and family ideology.
Wierd. My entire family are fundamentalist christian neo conservatives who only watch Fox news and only listen to Rush Limbaugh (im not even joking around, they literally DONT watch anything else).

Ive been a anarcho-communist since I was 15.

[Abolish Communism]

Raj Radical:

Statistically, that is weird, but of course there are exceptions.

Because of what you wrote, it appears you live in the USA. It appears you split on most of the things you were raised on, and at an early age, too.

What happened?

Also: Here's another weird thing. You are very new to this board like me, here just a couple of days and already you have a lot of posts for just over 40 hours. But you knew that at 15 you could identify yourself as a anarcho-communist.

I don't mean to be too personal, but what city were you raised in that you would know this term anarcho-communist? No one I know uses it or talks about it or thinks about it.

All of us are "capitalists", but none of us have ever said to another person, "I'm American nationalist capitalist" or something similar. Who did you hang around with at 13 and 14 (not names, the types of people) that you would build up a vocabulary that would include and discuss with you "anarcho-communist"?

[Raj Radical]

Ive been involved with the local punk scene since a young age, id say thats where I was first introduced to leftist ideologies (communism mostly).

My parents have never had a huge influence on me, I never got good grades because it was hard for me to focus in school so I mostly tought myself through alternative methods and also reading a lot of historical and political literature as well(Communist manifesto, Noam Chomsky, Society of the Spectacle, even Mein Kampf, not just brainwashing left propoganda), I identified myself as a anarchist-communist after a while, because of what I saw as the failures of totalitarian socialism. I wasent even aware that there were others who held my same views, until I started using the internet on a regular basis , which has become my main medium of communications of dialogue politically.

[Jazzratt]

I think you'll find a lot of people here are exceptions to that paticular line of thinking. (On a personal note I've never subscribed to the 'parents deside their childrens' ideology' thing, one of the main reasons I'm afraid of having kids: they could turn out to be cappies.).

I identified as: 'Communist' (actually stalinist) at about 14 Marxist-Leninist at 15, Anarcho Communist at 16.

I can't speak for Raj as I come from a different background and live in britian. The only thing I can think of that allowed me to find out about that kind of thing was that I was among the intellectuals at a sate comprehensive (one of the shit ones that gets put in special measures a lot and had a child molestor as a governor for a while) and as such would get attracted to equality politics.

[Abolish Communism]

Thanks for answering. It seemed so unusual for someone so young to have those views. But I can see where the punk scene would contribute.

My older brother is into punk, especially T.S.O.L., and the Dickies. If you take TSOL too seriously, there's an anarchist flair to a lot of what Jack sings about. He knows him and has been back stage a few times. I've gone to a few of his concerts (TSOL), and even done the slamming, but out uncle says slamming today is not what it was in '82. TSOL performs a lot in Orange County these days, and, ironically, I saw them perform at the Gene Autry Museum last year. Considering the venue, it was a funny place to watch them, surrounded by all of the cowboy memoriblia.

But despite the punk lyrics and those of QotSA (my brother's latest interest), he, like the rest of our family, have remained loyal to the Red White and Blue. We more accurately fall into the "norm" of following our parents' ideology. But as we grow older I suspect we'll more shape it to our viewpoint, which could eventually be more liberal or conservative. Who knows?

But again, thanks for answering.

[Sabocat]

All of us are "capitalists"

That statement is at the core of the problem in the U.S. Generally, the citizenry is lead to believe and worship the superstars of capital, (Gates, Ellison, etc) thinking that it will or could be them someday but in reality, very few (statistically speaking) actually are capitalists, that is, actually owning the means of production. The rest toil away selling their labor and enriching the capitalist class.

It's wrapped up neatly in that mind numbing "Horatio Alger", "American Dream" nonsense that was pounded into our heads from very early on, when in reality you have more of a chance hitting it "big" by playing the lottery.

[Abolish Communism]

QUOTE
All of us are "capitalists"


That statement is at the core of the problem in the U.S.


Well, yes, Disgustapated. You are of course correct. In the concept of owning the tools of production our family does not fall into this category.

We do, however, own stock in several companies, and over 2% in one. If my father ever owns 5% of this company he's be on the BOD.

I use the term capitalists to say that all of us believe if the freedom to handle our own financial affairs with very little government interference.

I was writing with another person, Raj, who calls himself an anarcho-communist. My father would get along well with him half-way, he's a semi-anarcho-capitalist, and wants to deal with the government as least as possible.

Of course I don't believe in the myth of Horatio Alger and all that rubbish, but I'd rather live in America and work hard for something rather than live in a society where I'd be working for the masses, a totally disgusting concept to me.

So yes, I'm not a capitalist, but have "bought-in" to the system of freedom with responsibility.

[Raj Radical]

Im sure me and your father could find at least some common ground on the social freedom regarding non-economic usses from government that comes from leftwing socialist libertarianism and right wing anarcho-capitalism.

In that same sense, anarcho-capitalism essentially private state capitalism. It may dissolve the state and with it whatever little accountability that multinational corporations may have previously had (along with transfering power from the state to the ruling class), but it doesnt serve the essential goal of anarchy , which is "without rulers". Capitalism is hierarchical in nature , if you believe that, anarcho-capitalism is an onymoron.

P.S. Im not a huge TSOL fan, ive never actually seen them live, was going to see them at the wasted tour this fall but apperantly thats cancelled :( .

[red team]

Unless the state in question is Fascist or a right-wing military dictatorship it would be actually worse to have no state, but simply private power. As many flaws as the state has, it is at least constrained in it's actions by popularly enacted laws and universally applicable rights. The main feature of liberal democracies is that the laws must be applicable to everyone within jurisdictional authority, you can't have some laws for the privileged and some laws for the less privileged.

With private power as the governing authority that no longer applies as the law can be anything the owner of the property can say it is. And since you are basically a guest of the owners if you occupy private property as everything would be private property when state power is stripped, they are within their authority to make up any laws they want that you must follow if you want to be a guest of these lords of Capital. If you break their laws they can make a law that state that they can kill you for disobediance. What's to stop this? It is their private property you're stepping on. I skeptical about "Libertarian" Capitalism. It sounds al lot more like Feudalism to me.

The thing you have to remember is that there is no such thing as popular accountability in "Libertarian" Capitalism. Universally applicable laws doesn't exists for private power because it goes against private interests. Would you as a private owner of wealth want to be constrained in your power to acquire ever greater amounts of wealth by the concerns of the "dirty little people" who only knows how to work all the time, but is not refined in culture and does not have an appreciation for the finer things in life like a "superior" gentleman or lady such as yourself? :lol:

The answer is obvious.

[Abolish Communism]

Capitalism is hierarchical in nature , if you believe that, anarcho-capitalism is an onymoron

I think you meant to write oxymoron, and of course, you're correct, and I was having fun with the term I invented, based on your term.

TSOL has been performing at least once every three months at one of the larger halls in Orange County, California. We saw them last spring near Los Angeles, in Long Beach.

If southern California is something you can get to, you have a good chance of seeing them.

Another way to see them is to invite them to your place for a concert. The police will come and everyone will go crazy, but they live for that. They're more accessible than you might think.

[Zero]

What kind of self-respecting progressive punk band tours Orange County?

"Hey! These fuckers are rich! I hope our music is as Bourgeois as they are!"

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Abolish [email protected] 30 2006, 04:18 AM

Capitalism is hierarchical in nature , if you believe that, anarcho-capitalism is an onymoron

I think you meant to write oxymoron, and of course, you're correct, and I was having fun with the term I invented, based on your term.

Without of course realising that Anarcho Capitalism is in fact a (widley denounced and ridiculed) subset of anarchism. Showing you know fuck all about it.

[Abolish Communism]

What kind of self-respecting progressive punk band tours Orange County?

T.S.O.L. is VERY respected in the world of punk. Don't show off your ignorance. If you like our town so much, come on and move to here.



Without of course realising that Anarcho Capitalism is in fact a (widley denounced and ridiculed) subset of anarchism. Showing you know fuck all about it.

And no compliment to me for making up a term that happens to exist. Thanks Jazzratt, you're now a 10 out of 10 at continuing to respond to anything I write on the board just to do so with no real reason at all.

People will say we're...

[Sabocat]

So yes, I'm not a capitalist, but have "bought-in" to the system of freedom with responsibility.

How is Marxist Communism not freedom with responsibility? In a communist society, the workers would be more actively providing for humanity. All would be required to contribute in whatever capacity they could. How is that not responsibility?

Workers would have complete control of the means of production. All their labor is owned by them. All the products they produce for society would be for their consumption without concern for profit. How is that not more freedom? Education and medical care would be provided to all. No one would have to make the choice between eating and medical care. How is that not more freedom?

[Abolish Communism]

Disgustapated:

I've been having a long chat with someone called LSD. He seems to be impressed with gauging everything on the basis of what the rest of the world thinks.

Using his absurd standard, and all of this, communism benefits the masses" bullshit I keep hearing from you guys, why hasn't any group of people in the post-industrialized nation overthrown their capitalist oppressors and won a revolution?

You're talking millions against tens of thousands.

What gives?

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 06:19 AM
What kind of self-respecting progressive punk band tours Orange County?

"Hey! These fuckers are rich! I hope our music is as Bourgeois as they are!"
Mind if I nick this for my sig?

[Sabocat]

Originally posted by Abolish [email protected] 30 2006, 07:02 PM
Disgustapated:

I've been having a long chat with someone called LSD. He seems to be impressed with gauging everything on the basis of what the rest of the world thinks.

Using his absurd standard, and all of this, communism benefits the masses" bullshit I keep hearing from you guys, why hasn't any group of people in the post-industrialized nation overthrown their capitalist oppressors and won a revolution?

You're talking millions against tens of thousands.

What gives?
Very simple really. All the tools for repressing it are owned by capital. The military, intelligence agencies, and the police.

With all those weapons, (and the absolute willingness to use them on it's own population) it would be outright suicide to try to counter capitalism at this point with violent means. Right now, we're in the stage of "war of ideas".

The tools of mass propaganda are also owned by capital. Everything from the nightly news, to school text books do whatever they can to eliminate or at the very least minimize strides made by communists, anarchists, socialists. How many school age kids know who Eugene Debs was? How many school age kids are taught anything about Helen Keller other than she conquered her speech, sight and hearing handicap? How many have read her socialist writings? How many have read Einstein's statements about Socialism? See where I'm going with this?

At every opportunity (in the U.S. anyway), they have waged a relentless war on International Communism.

How many people do you think would reject Communism if it were spoken of in anything but a hushed murmur? If they truly understood the basis of a communist society?

[Abolish Communism]

With all those weapons, (and the absolute willingness to use them on it's own population) it would be outright suicide to try to counter capitalism at this point with violent means. Right now, we're in the stage of "war of ideas".

Yeah, for 150 years, four or five failed attempts because the "commie" leaders became cappies, :o , and the disgust and satire of the world population.



How many people do you think would reject Communism if it were spoken of in anything but a hushed murmur? If they truly understood the basis of a communist society?

Is George Bush able to use that excuse/argument? Look world, if you TRULY UNDERSTOOD the basis of my world view, you'd all accept me.

Eventually people choose their fate, and after 150 years of no one choosing Marxism, and those nations that did being led down the toilet to oblivion, the world has spoken.

[Sabocat]

The point you're missing however is that most people in the U.S. couldn't even explain what Marxism actually is. They have no knowledge of it at all. They only know that they've been told it's bad.


Is George Bush able to use that excuse/argument? Look world, if you TRULY UNDERSTOOD the basis of my world view, you'd all accept me.

Actually he's counting on it. Again, he has all the tools at his disposal to push his agenda. The problem is of course, that Bush is an empty suit. His "ideas" have been regurgitated repeatedly throughout history. I think it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of people around the world have seen his "ideas" in action and have rejected them out of hand.



Yeah, for 150 years, four or five failed attempts because the "commie" leaders became cappies, ohmy.gif , and the disgust and satire of the world population.

If you look at those "failed" attempts you can readily see that they failed because they were violently repressed by the military (National Guard), police, etc. During the McCarthy era for instance, the whole weight of the U.S. Congress was brought to bear on Communists at home and abroad.

Internationally, everytime any "leftist" was considered as some kind of communist and was about to turn a nation towards the left, the U.S. would rush in with either forces or money/funding or both from the CIA to subvert and destroy the movement.

Who are these "commie" leaders that turned cappie out of curiosity?

[Zero]

Yeah sure.

And I aint a punk-er. Gimme rocksteady or Ska man, so what the fuck do I care.

[Raj Radical]

Abolish Communism, I dont think you understand the lengths gone to by the powers that be to undermine any form of populist movements.

By extreme censorship and other forms of disruption (see COINTELPRO, Mycarthyism, red scare etc. etc.) domestically , and conventional wars, other military actions, and support for brutal dictatorships abroad all in the name of american democracy and freedom. (american democracy being any system that allows neo-liberal global exploitation).

Most High School students couldnt even tell you what communism is, whenever I would discuss socialism with my peers whenever government was brought up in Social Studies etc., most of them thought communists were "Russian army guys".

Around the globe, there isent the stigma attached with communism as there is in the US. EX: In France it can be considered very patriotic to be a communist. (Paris Commune, WWII resistance).

Lack of merit, is the last reason why a communist revolution hasent occured in the 1st world western world.

[Abolish Communism]

Around the globe, there isent the stigma attached with communism as there is in the US. EX: In France it can be considered very patriotic to be a communist. (Paris Commune, WWII resistance).

I am totally aware of this, as I am that our "left" is center right, and our "right" is far right, from the European point of view.

However, that does not support the continued LAME answers to why the people of France don't have the bloody revolution and get the thing over with and let's all see what happens.

Now, let's put it on a scale, with extreme censorship and other forms of disruption such as COINTELPRO, Mcarthyism, and the Red Scares of the '20s and '50s in America on one side, and Stalin's purge murder of millions of Russians, Mao's Cultural Revolution, and the Khmer Rouge's killing fields of God knows how many on another side of the scale. Wonder which one you'd rather live under? Even as a Marxist.

(REMEMBER, THIS IS ESPECIALLY FOR LSD, (AND IF YOU GIVE ME ANOTHER WARNING POINT FOR STUMPING YOUR PEA BRAIN, NOT HARD TO DO BTW, SO BE IT, IT'S WORTH IT), IF YOU MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT STALIN, MAO, AND POL POT WERE NOT MARXITS, I MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT COINTELPRO, Mcarthyism, and the Red Scares of the '20s and '50s WERE NOT AMERICAN IN THE SENSE OF WHAT WE AMERICANS VIEW AS BEING WHAT WE STAND FOR. OUR U.S. HISTORY BOOKS, PROPERLY, TREAT ALL THREE OF THESE AREAS AS AMERICA NOT AT ITS BEST, BUT ITS WORST)

As you've been reasonable with me Raj, take what I just wrote and put it in a better, more friendly light.

Now, why did I bring up these three happy go lucky guys: The MAIN reason France hasn't gone Red is because the people there have never seen a possitive role model for commie leadership.

We've had good and bad presidents. Our worst were probably Harding, Nixon, and G.W. Bush. Some of our best include FDR, his cousin Teddy, Jackson, Lincoln, Jefferson and Washington, and some others. (I'm not inviting a debate on each of these guys, in the commie light, they probably all stink to you guys.)

However, you commies got the short end of the stick when it comes to those who claim they're commies. (Remember, COINTELPRO directors, Senator Joe, and the U.S. Senate from the 20's that ran the Red Scare thought they were upstanding Americans also.)

Stop blaming the corporate media in France, or the almighty Franc, or NATO bases in France. If the French wanted to, as a population, they could have this Revolution of yours in time for their celebration on July 14.

IF IT SUCKS AS BADLY AS YOU SAY, WHY WOULD ANYONE CHOOSE CAPITALISM?!?

I know you might not accept this, but every day, the conduct of France, and the world, chooses Capitalism.

[Raj Radical]

Originally posted by Abolish [email protected] 1 2006, 02:14 AM

Around the globe, there isent the stigma attached with communism as there is in the US. EX: In France it can be considered very patriotic to be a communist. (Paris Commune, WWII resistance).

I am totally aware of this, as I am that our "left" is center right, and our "right" is far right, from the European point of view.

However, that does not support the continued LAME answers to why the people of France don't have the bloody revolution and get the thing over with and let's all see what happens.

Now, let's put it on a scale, with extreme censorship and other forms of disruption such as COINTELPRO, Mcarthyism, and the Red Scares of the '20s and '50s in America on one side, and Stalin's purge murder of millions of Russians, Mao's Cultural Revolution, and the Khmer Rouge's killing fields of God knows how many on another side of the scale. Wonder which one you'd rather live under? Even as a Marxist.

(REMEMBER, THIS IS ESPECIALLY FOR LSD, (AND IF YOU GIVE ME ANOTHER WARNING POINT FOR STUMPING YOUR PEA BRAIN, NOT HARD TO DO BTW, SO BE IT, IT'S WORTH IT), IF YOU MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT STALIN, MAO, AND POL POT WERE NOT MARXITS, I MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT COINTELPRO, Mcarthyism, and the Red Scares of the '20s and '50s WERE NOT AMERICAN IN THE SENSE OF WHAT WE AMERICANS VIEW AS BEING WHAT WE STAND FOR. OUR U.S. HISTORY BOOKS, PROPERLY, TREAT ALL THREE OF THESE AREAS AS AMERICA NOT AT ITS BEST, BUT ITS WORST)

As you've been reasonable with me Raj, take what I just wrote and put it in a better, more friendly light.

Now, why did I bring up these three happy go lucky guys: The MAIN reason France hasn't gone Red is because the people there have never seen a possitive role model for commie leadership.

We've had good and bad presidents. Our worst were probably Harding, Nixon, and G.W. Bush. Some of our best include FDR, his cousin Teddy, Jackson, Lincoln, Jefferson and Washington, and some others. (I'm not inviting a debate on each of these guys, in the commie light, they probably all stink to you guys.)

However, you commies got the short end of the stick when it comes to those who claim they're commies. (Remember, COINTELPRO directors, Senator Joe, and the U.S. Senate from the 20's that ran the Red Scare thought they were upstanding Americans also.)

Stop blaming the corporate media in France, or the almighty Franc, or NATO bases in France. If the French wanted to, as a population, they could have this Revolution of yours in time for their celebration on July 14.

IF IT SUCKS AS BADLY AS YOU SAY, WHY WOULD ANYONE CHOOSE CAPITALISM?!?

I know you might not accept this, but every day, the conduct of France, and the world, chooses Capitalism.
You have still failed to address the point of my previous point, which is that capitalism vs. revolution not a conscious choice made by the world each day , and if an alternative is presented its almost always a straw-man, even in France.

And thats why the number one priority of the "commies" and other subversive groups should be educating people to a population that is woefully ignorant of history, philosophy etc. rather than throwing molotovs at riot police every weekend. :wacko:

[Abolish Communism]

The early American patriots had a similar problem of "educating" the public, and wrote pamphlets and newspapers as their mainstay method. Overall it took about 15 years or so, the last 7 the most crucial.

England's taxes helped, but the Patriot's trickery was also big.

Eventually what made us was, at the time, the most able minds in history, at one place and at the same time. Great thinkers AND great doers.

I'm not avoiding your argument, I simply don't accept it out of hand. Generally speaking, you could "educate" the French public until Doomsday. No one in their right mind would choose Marxism willingly. It sucks ass bigtime.

[Sabocat]

I wouldn't declare the majority of France's population pro-capitalist just yet. There are dozens of pro-Marxist parties/tendancies in France. They make up a considerable constituency.

There have been extremely large protests/revolts in the last couple of years. Most tend to be driven by the poor and the working class. Chirac's government is at an all time weak point, and I think you can count on his right wing coalition to go bye-bye very soon.

Also remember the French Communist Party has also been subverted by the U.S.

"In 1947 the U.S. put a large amount of money into the Socialist Party which was the Communist Party's biggest rival at the time. The AFL was sent over there to get the CP's union influence out, import scabs, gave money to Corsican gangs to break up Communist strikes, burn party offices, beat up and murder party members and strikers."

Rogue State

Bill Blum

The "great American patriots" were so great, that they even paid the poor to go fight for them. After fighting during the Revolutionary war, they were often not paid and upon coming home, had their livestock and farms repossessed/forclosed. (See Shay's rebellion)


No one in their right mind would choose Marxism willingly. It sucks ass bigtime

That's a ridiculous statement. What was the Russian revolution? The Cuban revolution, China's revolution, the Paris Commune, Spanish Civil War etc, etc. I'm not referring to what each of those has/had become, I'm talking about the obvious fact that many people "willingly chose Marxism" and were willing to die for it.

You still unsurprisingly have yet to really make any logical argument as to why "Marxism sucks ass bigtime" other than just proclaiming that.