Direct assault agaisnt the police

[ahab]

:)

[rouchambeau]

I can't say that I have ever done anything like that. Just remember one thing: BE CAREFUL!!!!!!!!!

I'll dig up a text on this kind of action and post it in the practice forum that relates very well to this topic sometime.

[Nachie]

Guy you just posted everything the cops would need to come knocking on your door tomorrow and ask about some windshields...

Please do not post this kind of thing here, it doesn't give you cred because it actually makes people question your intelligence to be talking about these things so publicly. Several people have been caught recently because they bragged about actions on social networking sites like this.

I don't think that this thread should be trashed, but it might be. If it's possible to edit out the name of this kid's town and maybe the specific actions mentioned, that would be better.

To answer your question, the Earth Liberation Front (ELF) in the US is probably the closest thing to what you're describing. One of the actions that has been used very successfully is to smash the windows or slash tires on SUVs or expensive cars and spraypaint "ELF" and other slogans on the side. This tactic specifically is interesting because the only way to be caught is literally to either get caught in the act, or leave behind evidence like an idiot. I don't believe anyone has been caught for smashing SUVs to date (though people definitely get busted for the arsons) and i've seen news reports where people were able to do as many as 65 cars in a night!

However we also have to remember that there are thousands of actions against property and the state every year, both violent and nonviolent, by ordinary people with no agenda other than resistance, and it is usually these actions that prove the most effective.

For instance in Ohio someone poured nails into the concrete of a supermax prison, delaying its construction for a year. That was a brilliant action but wasn't claimed by anybody or any group.

At the same time, I think we DO need to be "claiming" actions like this in order to make a gestalt of them and foster a situation where all of them together can define something larger than themselves and appear as a collective front against the enemy rather than as isolated activity. The group I am involved in is involved in creating this kind of "network of affiliated actions", our website is HERE (http://www.redanarchist.org).

And again, please don't make yourself look like such a provocatuer.

But most importantly, DONT FUCKING GET CAUGHT because our prisoner support resources are stretched tight as it is!

[ahab]

:)

[apathy maybe]

ELF are not even a group. ELF is just a name, an idea.

But also the biggest domestic terrorist threat in the USA according to the FBI. And they never kill anybody ...

I would recommend reading the Monkey Wrench Gang for some ideas.

As to smashing cops shit, be very careful. That is not to say don't do it, just make sure that you plan ahead, keep your tools away from your house and friends houses. Make sure people aren't following you when you move between your house and your cache and your target.

Be anonymous, wear dark clothing cover your face. Stake out a place before hand to watch for patrols or cameras.

[TC]

Nachie, is it possible for you to respond to any thread without plugging your little group? I mean seriously, it is quite obnoxious, and no ones impressed with your ludicrous comment concerning \'prisoner support\', as if you have any prisoners to support or could do so effectively.


Anyways in terms of the origional thread, i think its a shame that there are no organized attempts to put direct pressure on US state forces. The ELF doesnt do anything of the sort, they never attack government, military or police property only private property.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 01:53 AM
Nachie, is it possible for you to respond to any thread without plugging your little group? I mean seriously, it is quite obnoxious.
Yes.

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...st&p=1292085790 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=51042&hl=&view=findpost&p=1292085790)

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...st&p=1292085768 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=36&t=50985&hl=&view=findpost&p=1292085768)

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...st&p=1292085751 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=77&t=50726&hl=&view=findpost&p=1292085751)

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...st&p=1292085711 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=7&t=50413&hl=&view=findpost&p=1292085711)

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...st&p=1292085598 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=45868&hl=&view=findpost&p=1292085598)

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...st&p=1292085587 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=50982&hl=&view=findpost&p=1292085587)

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...st&p=1292085502 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=51004&hl=&view=findpost&p=1292085502)

And so on...


The ELF doesn\'t do anything of the sort, they never attack government, military or police property only private property.

Haven't they done actions against the Forest Service?

[Nachie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 07:53 AM
Nachie, is it possible for you to respond to any thread without plugging your little group?
Well B3G (who is rocking a sexy new homemade-mortar avatar, I must say) just showed you that yes, it is.

But the funny answer would be that no, it's not.

Why? Because I know it pisses you off.


I mean seriously, it is quite obnoxious,
Motherfucker I don't give a shit!

I am a RAANista and that means I'm gonna rep that vaina. Dude asks about effective methods and who is engaged in variety of tactics and I am gonna tell him. We have a specific (anti-)organizational framework that I believe to be the best strategic bet for people who are looking for a way to build a truly revolutionary movement right now, so damn right I'm going to talk about it when people ask that kind of stuff. Anybody else currently involved in a tendency prepared to address the specific issues being discussed in this thread, please post information about your groups as it would definitely be considered relevant.

These forums are often used for a bunch of useless theoretical debates between totally incompatible ideologies. We should instead be discussing real-world tactics and strategy with comrades who we already know are on the same page as us. Towards this end you're damn right I'm going to bring up RAAN, and I'm going to push for it, too.


...and no ones impressed with your ludicrous comment concerning \'prisoner support\', as if you have any prisoners to support or could do so effectively.
Oh so you think I made that statement to impress you, huh? :rolleyes:

You're right, there are currently no people serving time for actions affiliated with RAAN (knock on wood) but the network has always engaged in prisoner support for all jailed comrades with whom we feel an affinity, as well as social prisoners such as women who have been raped and need access to abortions. I myself have worked for a (non-political) prisoner legal advocacy nonprofit. At no time did I explicitly say that our support was reserved for other RAANistas, so shove it!

As for the question of "effective" prisoner support, we are very conscious of the fact that there hasn't been an effective revolutionary prisoner support movement for decades and at least we're trying to do something about it!

Speaking of which, how did everybody's international weekend of resistance to the Green Scare go?

[ahab]

:)

[Nachie]

You may want to check out the models being used by Greek anarchists right now, then.

They have been behind a number of attacks on police stations, sometimes using tactics such as throwing molotovs from the backs of motorcycles.

[bcbm]

The police will take this as a direct insult and become more strict in enforcing the laws, lieniancy will be gone if the attacks keep happening. This would be their downfall, this would create anger and a all around despise of the police, and in big cities this would be great! This would create pititions, protests and hopefully under the best of circumstance a revolution.

I think you're ignoring how quickly the police would contact the media and "spin" the story. Not to discourage you, by any means.


Speaking of which, how did everybody's international weekend of resistance to the Green Scare go?

I didn't even know it was happening. That's how down my city is.

[ahab]

Originally posted by black banner black [email protected] 11 2006, 06:15 PM

I think you're ignoring how quickly the police would contact the media and "spin" the story. Not to discourage you, by any means.


They probably would do that, but we too can contact the media either anonymously or not. Reporters are always looking for a good story, and if things like this were all over the news people might start waking up to the cause

[Nachie]

Yes communiques to news agencies seem to work well assuming you can make them anonymously (I can't think of anyone off the top of my head who has been caught because they contacted the media).

What the ELF usually does is just spraypaint their acronym at the scene and that also seems takes care of it.

RAAN has developed the idea of a BrickPet ™ which is basically just a brick with "RAAN" stenciled on it. It's like killing two birds with one stone :P

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 12:42 PM
RAAN has developed the idea of a BrickPet ™ which is basically just a brick with "RAAN" stenciled on it. It's like killing two birds with one stone :P
Do we have to pay royalties to use that idea? :lol:

[ahab]

:)

[Nachie]

Yes, for each busted window you'll have to make out a check to RAAN for $19.99 and mail it to our central treasury at,

Umm...

Oh right, we don't have one.

Eh, just keep your money ;)

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 12:48 PM
Violence is the only way
"Liberty must be achieved through violence." -Marat :ph34r:

[Nachie]

This is an interesting time to bring up my critique of "individualist" or insurrectional anarchist praxis, property destruction, etc.

In a lot of their texts, insurrectionary anarchists essentially talk big about things like "throwing ourselves on the churning gears", "unrestricted revolt", etc.

Their highly individualist focus is inspiring to me in some senses but it also appears to be calling for people to go out and independently throw themselves into passionate insurrection almost as if they were "suicide bombers" for anarchy.

I have two major critiques of this:

1) The people writing these things generally have no intention of taking these actions themselves.

2) These calls to action are usually accompanied by a strict "anti-organizationalism" that seeks to glorify spontaneous resistance but doesn't give it any opportunity to become something greater. The reason individual anarchists aren't running around fucking more shit up is that they realize such isolated actions cannot ultimately be useful. In cases where individualist actions are taken, their memory fades away as quickly, essentially just serving as porno for anarchist newswires. Even Andres Raya, (just as an example, but he wasn't an anarchist) who killed two cops before being taken down himself, can now be dismissed as an isolated loony with no real outlook on life. To use another example, I've never heard of police cars being smashed in Central Point, OR. And that's because those actions managed to exist only until the cops forgot about them, and were probably dismissed as vandalism with no wider goal.

What these anarcho-individualists (I'm throwing this term around here, sorry) fail to recognize is that people who actually do become suicide bombers (literally and otherwise) the world over all have a connection to a larger movement that they see their actions as adding up to. Suicide bombers are not individualists.

But in the context of a revolutionary association, even the smallest piece of resistance can be claimed and become part of the overall gestalt. The best thing about this is that it contextualizes actions with the activity of the broader network, so something that is seen as sporadically anti-police could then be connected to struggles for gender liberation in another part of the world, for instance.

Discuss. :P

[ahab]

:)

[Nachie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 07:33 PM
Another thing, suicide bombers, I think this is the most rediculous act anyone can take, why go and blow yourself up? That would do limited for your cause AND your cause would have one less member. Why not build the bomb, plant it and then leave and live to bomb again? They are mindless and senseless and really are just cattle, they do whatever they are told even blow themselves up.
I agree. But one thing we can't accuse suicide bombers of being is cowards or uncommitted to the cause. The psychological roots of this committment should be studied carefully, and I believe that it ultimately has roots in the ability of larger groups to make their individual actions into part of a larger identifiable struggle.


Although I am ultimately against anything organized to the extent that there is a governing leader, organized assualts are smart, if one person is creating mayhem, people will see him as a nut job, and it will push them further away from that persons movement. If people see a whole organized assault they will think maybe its a threat but maybe it is right and that is what they should be doing.
What about many single-person actions without central planning, but all claiming affiliation to the same group and therefore appearing as an "organized assault"? This is a cornerstone of what RAANistas are trying to build.

[ahab]

:)

[Nachie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 09:56 PM
well if it's single person actions but related to a organized group then that's good what I'm talking about is some kid just sitting around then getting the crazy idea to try and "start a revolution" and just running around causing chaos. If you do something and put a groups name on it like for instance the whole smashing SUV's up and putting ELF on it and if this is happening nationwide or better yet worldwide than that is good, but people who do these things need to contact some kind of headquarters of one of these groups that way it's not just sporatic vandalism claiming to be part of a group, it needs to be organized like sy for instance if one group in each state in each major city went on a rampage all in the same night then there would be nationwide media coverage of it and people would kno it was for real.
The ELF has coordinated simultaneous arsons in at least a couple different states in totally different parts of the country once before, I believe. It was indeed incredibly effective at the time, and made everybody kinda hold their breath.

The creation of the communication networks necessary to plot such a conspiracy (and that's exactly what you'd be charged with) would be entirely up to those willing to engage in those actions, and realistically would be built on a person-to-person basis functioning entirely independently of the larger project to which they were affiliated.

Basically what I'm saying is, if you're trying to plot illegal actions with other people, you're going to have to go out and find those accomplices by yourself, using your own common sense and a good degree of security culture about who to trust and how not to get busted, because nobody in their right mind would help you do this publicly.

[ahab]

:)

[bayano]

i would suggest this is removed or every mention of illegal activity edited down. have the fbi or others ever subpeonaed this board for records? i know theyve done that to other boards.

[Nachie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 11:05 PM
or every mention of illegal activity edited down.
I re-state my support for this.

[ahab]

yea we should probably get this deleted

[bayano]

another note on deleting this thread or editing out all mentions of illegal activity- the federal agencies that deal with this usually place cease and desist orders over the websites when they subpeona them, meaning nothing can be edited out or deleted under heavy penalty. best to do it before its too late.

[ahab]

how do i do it? do i have to contact a moderator?

[Guest_bayano]

yeah, but as a registered user you should also be able to go back through your own posts and edit them

[the_last_straw]

Editing/Deleting it won't do anything. The feds probably already have a forensically sound backup (on their servers and on places like google cache and archive.org). In addition, unless properly deleted it can be recovered from the server hard drives. Guess you're screwed.

[Renegade420]

well if trying to start a large scale revolt, or even just a protest, how will you get ahold of the people with out the government or the authoritys finding out?

[Janus]

how do i do it? do i have to contact a moderator?
Yes, if you want to trash it or you could go back and edit your comments.

I think that it wasn't the best idea to publish it online as it could also get this board in trouble and I advise you not to mention it to anyone whom you don't entirely trust elsewhere.

All I have to say is that small scale actions against a tool of the capitalists isn't really going to help our movement at all. It'll only hurt our image and give further substance to the lies that we are a bunch of angry kids.

[CP_Rebel]

Well, at the same time if they think we are a bunch of angry kids-then we could throw them off by actual attacks. That would suprise them and send them back peddling.

By all means though Fysh, "Fuck the Police". I would love to see more attacks on the police, like you said the place where we should be attacking.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 04:15 PM
Basically what I'm saying is, if you're trying to plot illegal actions with other people, you're going to have to go out and find those accomplices by yourself, using your own common sense and a good degree of security culture about who to trust and how not to get busted, because nobody in their right mind would help you do this publicly.
I'd advise against this, judging from what is going on right now with all the ELF folks in prison.

[ahab]

revision is finished

[lithium]

I see little point in illegal and/or small-scale violent activities. In order to start a revolt, you need the support of the people.

If some ordinary Joe was sitting at home watching TV and flicks over to the news to see that "XYZ have blown up a storage warehouse and spraypainted their initials all over the place" Joe will just think of these people as criminals and little more. As a result, he will unconciously distance himself from any activities and automatically conclude that they are wrong, and now we have one less supporter of the cause.

In order to muster up the people, I think you need to do activities that they can feel connected to in some way, something that might benefit them or their community. For example, a demonstration for workers' rights, a war protest, a general strike, a demonstration for better public services. These are things the ordinary people can relate to and they will want to be a part of them. And if they are organised by a group or groups, they will lead to major public awareness of the movement.

In Ireland I rarely if ever see anything in the media about small illegal activities. Yet I often see and hear of demonstrations and protests - large and small - all over the world. I feel that doing illegal/violent activities, you're distancing yourself from potential major public support, and as a result, the Revolution.

[elmo sez]

Lithium is spot on , small acts of violence against the state make little difference. It only distances people from the cause etc They key is EDUCATION when people are informed about the issues then they will lean toward the movement . and may even support violent action against the government if the see it as an act of defence , ie you do lots of community work , education , community support etc , then the police , army etc clamp down on you because ( insert reason here) , then youll have the support of the people when you take action against the state .