Why Most Young Americans Become "Communist"

[JimmyC]

Generally speaking, it's not normal for an American youth to want to work to achieve soicalist revolution. Democratic socialist, sure, why not. May not agree with it as a concept, but I can understand why others would support it.

But to want a revolution in America, based on Marxist ideals is not only strange, it doesn't make sense for someone who strives for more individual freedom.

Here are my classifications. Please tell me which one you fall in to:

#1 - You're not really the 18 year old (or so) you're claiming to be, but are trolling around here pretending to be a radical.

#2 - You really are a youngster; you just have a lot of time on your hands and making comments here is better than doing your studies, which, if you did them, would prepare you for a world where you'd be able to pay the bills and not be a socialist anyways.

#3 - You're fat, ugly, and don't fit in with the beautiful people on campus, always wanted to be one of them, and so you think that rebelling against anything is a good thing to do.

#4 - Same as #3, but you look ok, merely think in weird terms, so you run around campus dressed in black w/ freakie non-conformist buttons on your backpack and names of music groups no one's ever heard of on your t-shirts, and "working for" (you're not really working, that would be your parents) world revolution at least keeps you on the computers and off the streets.

#5 - The more unfortunate situation: No parental love in any real sense; your parents never spent time with you. No little league, no cub scouts, no God Bless America songs. So consequently, you believe that the system is to blame rather than your parents.

#6 - You simply hate to work, strive, and have no ambition, and believe society should give you everything.

#7 - This is all part of a complicated high school and college plan to get chicks.

#8 - You live in incredible abject poverty in Newark or northern Manhattan, and you want to strike out against the world.

#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.

#10 - You simply want to be "the Bag Guy".


See, commies have done nothing since the beginning of their existence but muck things up, repress people, kill people, steal from people, take from them their freedeom, religion, property, and hope.

They claim they're doing all this to redistribute everything. The problem is that they're real good at the first part, that is taking it away from the capitalist, owner, and manager. But they're real piss poor at the second part, redistributing the wealth and treating everyone equal.

To fight on their side when they've caused so much pain and torture throughout the world is amazing.

Anyway, choose one of the 10 from above.

Thanks

[Connolly]

#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.

I think that fits me quite well.

I have studied the horrid communist manifesto instead :lol:

Seriously though, I think some of your characteristics might just be right, in that alot of communists have been, or are, alienated from society due to a variety of reasons.

On the other hand - some just conclude whats is most rational, and follow up on it.

[BobKKKindle$]

#2 - You really are a youngster; you just have a lot of time on your hands and making comments here is better than doing your studies, which, if you did them, would prepare you for a world where you'd be able to pay the bills and not be a socialist anyways

Thats me alright. I dont want to submit to an education system based upon rote learning, zero discussion and debate, and subjects that are imposed upon students with little regard to their personal interests. That would simply force me into a life of monotonous wage labour. Spending my life as a subject of the system is not my idea of living! I believe that the education system is an extension of Wage labour and Capitalism as a whole, so be fighting the latter I can change the former for future students. 'Youngsters' aka students have played a most revolutionary role throughout History! The legacy of the Nanterre and the Sorbonne is my inspiration.

[rioters bloc]

#3



now i want to kill myself.

[JazzRemington]

#10 - You simply want to be "the Bag Guy".

What I do with my bag is none of your business.

[LSD]

I really don't know why I'm bothering but what the fuck, here we go:


Generally speaking, it's not normal for an American youth to want to work to achieve soicalist revolution.

Well, first of all, we have quite a few non-Americans on this board, myself included. And secondly, who gives a damn what's "normal"?

In 1800, it was "normal" for "American youths" to support slavery. Did that make being an abolitionist "wrong" for a young person? Should they have "accepted the mainstream" and bought themselves some slaves? :o


#1 - You're not really the 18 year old (or so) you're claiming to be, but are trolling around here pretending to be a radical.

:lol:

So 18 year olds can't be real communists, but people pretending to be 18 year olds can....

Doesn't that somewhat contradict your later contention that communist leanings develop out of youthful disatisfaction and social isolation?

Wow, a contradition already. This doesn't exactly bode well for the rest of the list. :unsure:


#2 - You really are a youngster; you just have a lot of time on your hands and making comments here is better than doing your studies, which, if you did them, would prepare you for a world where you'd be able to pay the bills and not be a socialist anyways.

That's a self-contradicting statement right there.

If one had "lots of time on [one's] time", posting on this board would not seriously detract from pursuing one's studies. And indeed, given the average amount of the time that a regular poster spends here, there is simply no possible way that this board could be a major obstacle to academic success.

If someone doesn't want to do their work, they'll find some convenient excuse not to; but adopting a radical political stand hardly constitutes convenience.

On the contrary, it carries with it all sorts of additional work, not to mention the burden of political awareness. Political apathy and apolitical self-gratification is an infinitely simpler and easier choice for someone merely attempting to avoid schoolwork.

Frankly, I'me begining to suspect that you didn't think list through! :o


#3 - You're fat, ugly, and don't fit in with the beautiful people on campus, always wanted to be one of them, and so you think that rebelling against anything is a good thing to do.

Because communism is such a good way of "fitting in"? :rolleyes:

If our aim was to be like everyone else, don't you think we'd try and be like everyone else? Besides, since when have political leanings had anything to do with social situations? Hell, I honestly could count on my fingers the number of time that my politics have affected my personal life one way or another.

"Rebelling against anything" is most certainly not a "good thing", but rebelling against certain things is not only "good", but eminently justifiable.

And, really, what's the alternative? Should we accept authority and "tradition" without question? "Respect our elders" and "tow the line"? I think we all know where that kind of thinking leads...


#4 - Same as #3, but you look ok, merely think in weird terms, so you run around campus dressed in black w/ freakie non-conformist buttons on your backpack and names of music groups no one's ever heard of on your t-shirts, and "working for" (you're not really working, that would be your parents) world revolution at least keeps you on the computers and off the streets.

What, exactly, are "weird terms" and what on earth do their have to do with politics?

Most of the "poser" types you're talking about -- the "weird thinking", "freakie" types -- are nonpolitical; they are certainly not likely to be communist or communist-leaning.


#5 - The more unfortunate situation: No parental love in any real sense; your parents never spent time with you. No little league, no cub scouts, no God Bless America songs. So consequently, you believe that the system is to blame rather than your parents.

Actually, the latest research suggests that overscheduling by parents tends to have a detrimental effect on child development. Significant "day dreaming time" is essential for healthy psychological maturation.

And in terms of "God bless America", haven't you people learned the dangers of hypernationalism yet?

Don't you think there might be a reason why your country is so incredibly fucked up? Why you have ten times as many murders as any other industrialized nation; why your government is lurching to the right while the rest of the world recoils in horror?

A little less "god bless America" and a little more rationality and you might just raise a generation of sane Americans.

And wouldn't that be nice? :)


#6 - You simply hate to work, strive, and have no ambition, and believe society should give you everything.

:rolleyes:

Right....so because we "hate work", we've decided to become active in revolutionary politics. Sure, mate, sure... :D


#7 - This is all part of a complicated high school and college plan to get chicks.

You're assuming that this board consists solely of heterosexual men; clearly demonstrating your sexist homophobic leanings and prejeduced biggotry.

Feel shame. :(


#8 - You live in incredible abject poverty in Newark or northern Manhattan, and you want to strike out against the world.

Oh, so there is "incredible poverty" in your precious United States. Funny, I thought that capitalism was supposed to "solve" all that. :lol:


#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.


Actually, I've studied it quite intensively.

It has its occasional moments, but generally it's an anachronistic document which tacitly endorses all manner of injustice and oppression. But then what more can one expect from an eighteenth century work?

It's pure nationalistic idealism to imagine that the American constitution has some sort of intrinsic "beauty" or special exeptionalism.

I've read worse constitutions, but I've also read far better ones. As far as I can tell, the US one is distinctly average; although it does have the distinct historical honour of being one of the first of its kind.

Like with the Bible and atheism, though, I would wager that, statistically speaking, a greater percentage of communists have read the constitution than the general population. Most people, after all, are politicall apolitical; communists, by contrast, are political to a fault and so tend to do their research.


#10 - You simply want to be "the Bag Guy".

What's a "bag guy"? :huh:

I'm going to assume for the sake of argument that you meant bad guy, but given your hysterical tone, I can't be sure that you didn't mean something entirely different.

In any case, nobody wants to the be the "bad guy". Oh sure, there are "bad guys" that we can sympathize with and we all like to feel important; but in the words of Willam Defoe, "ain't no difference everybody thinks they're righeous".

Simply put, if all we wanted was "attention", there are vastly superior methods of achieving it.


[b]See, commies have done nothing since the beginning of their existence but muck things up, repress people, kill people, steal from people, take from them their freedeom, religion, property, and hope.

Clearly your understanding of communism is severly limited, not that that's wholly unexpected given the sociopolitical reality.

Personally, I would suggest that you browse this board and read up on what communism actually is. I don't know whether it will change your mind, but you never know. I've seen stranger things happen.

We may make a commie out of you yet! ;)

[violencia.Proletariat]

#7 - This is all part of a complicated high school and college plan to get chicks.

Oh no! You exposed our plan. :lol:

[The Grey Blur]

You're operating under the assumption that people discover Marxism and then become opposed to the system - people despise the capitalist system that takes away their individuality, time and labour anyway - Marxism simply shapes this opposition into a coherent ideology

Don't take my word for it - read this article (http://mv.lycaeum.org/M2/ventura.html) - It's by a man who has never read a single piece of Communist literature yet draws the exact same conclusions that Marx did a hundred and some years ago - that Capitalism is oppressive.

It seems the exploitative nature of capitalism is becoming so blatant that workers are beginning to draw their own conclusions on their labour being stolen - bit worrying for the capitalists, eh? ;)

[Tungsten]

bobkindles

'Youngsters' aka students have played a most revolutionary role throughout History!
Cannon fodder.
LSD

Oh, so there is "incredible poverty" in your precious United States. Funny, I thought that capitalism was supposed to "solve" all that.
I don't think anyone's ever claimed capitalism would eliminate poverty. My ideology is methodology-based, not results-based. Which is the reason communists continually embarrass themselves with promises of high quality education high, quality healthcare etc. all free of charge without having a clue how to achieve these lofty goals in practice or who they have to trample on to get them.
"How are you going to guarantee us all of these things?" Ask the workers.
"Oh...we'll worry about that after the revolution." You reply.
Sheer madness.

Clearly your understanding of communism is severly limited, not that that's wholly unexpected given the sociopolitical reality.
If you severly limit the understanding to the posts on this board and reality, his evaluation is fairly accurate.

[JimmyC]

LSD wrote:


It has its occasional moments, but generally it's an anachronistic document which tacitly endorses all manner of injustice and oppression.

Using the language of the MODERN U.S. Constitution (not the original 1787 document, but the one that exists now, after the various amendments) could you please show me how your statement is correct?


violencia.Proletariat

You'd be surprised how many male leaders, revolutionary and otherwise, have used their "cause" to bed women. There is a tongue and cheekieness to my statement, but there is also truth.


Permanent Revolution wrote:


people despise the capitalist system that takes away their individuality

For better or worse, the United States of America, France, and the UK have produced THE MOST "individualistic" people and youths IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, and those contries which have been "socialist" such as the PRC or the USSR have produced the most robotic.

[Nachie]

I am numbers 4 through 7 :P

[The Grey Blur]

Permanent Revolution wrote
O RLY?

Just for the record, I am all of the above

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 06:04 PM
You'd be surprised how many male leaders, revolutionary and otherwise, have used their "cause" to bed women.
Wow, the evidence you backed that up with is overwhelming :o

[JimmyC]

s3rna

You still didn't pick what number you fall into.

[The Grey Blur]

Well should we write up an asinine list of stereotypes for you to choose one from?

[KC]

I don't fit into any of those, sorry. :(

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Me neither, I never fit in anywhere :(

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 06:59 PM
s3rna

You still didn't pick what number you fall into.
JimmyC

You still didn't provide any evidence at all.

[which doctor]

The fact is most young americans don't communists. They are too brainwashed by the media to do so.

So, you're immediately wrong in your title.

[The Resistor]

Ahhhh just look at america, ohno thats goodm killing people in irak, killing blacks, just do the F*ck u want,,,,If you don&#39;t understand REAL communism you should not say these things, you&#39;re not probably informed....and how do u know these reasons so welll, maybe your all of that or u are jealous of communists.....BTW a lot of communist were had workers but u dont know that because you say things in the air......realy sad, sorry <_< :P

[ummProfessional]

I am numbers 4 through 7

that says it all


Me neither, I never fit in anywhere

which is why your a communist :lol:

[which doctor]

I don&#39;t belong to any of those points either.

[MurderInc]

Ahhhh just look at america, ....just do the F*ck u want

You say that as though it were a bad thing.

[Alexandria]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 08:17 AM





#2 - You really are a youngster; you just have a lot of time on your hands and making comments here is better than doing your studies, which, if you did them, would prepare you for a world where you&#39;d be able to pay the bills and not be a socialist anyways

Yes, I&#39;m 17 and far smarter than the gawd fearn&#39; flag wav&#39; "I want to be rich too" so called "adults" I come accross. I just finsihed my high school junior year and have completed the 3 semesters of collage Calculus, and first year biochemestry.

So put that in your Dale Earnheart crack pipe and smoke it.


#3 - You&#39;re fat, ugly, and don&#39;t fit in with the beautiful people on campus[.

Er no, I&#39;m cute enough to get into clubs and drink for free even though I&#39;m legally not suppose to be there.

You sound to me like one of those dorky corporate guys that come in from the suburbs to score some chicks and we all laugh at you. Dorks should stay in Dorkville and stop laming up all the kewl places.


No little league, no cub scouts, no God Bless America songs.
Baseball is 4 losers, I play vollyball. Youu lose hipness points if you were or admit to being a cub scout/brownie....Being a goddess in my own right, have no need for mythical patriartical gawds, especially ones that would bless dumb hayseed such as yourself.


#6 - You simply hate to work, strive, and have no ambition, and believe society should give you everything.

Or I have a brain in my head and want to achieve some sort of work-life balance instead of killing myself to make elders and others of the "investment" class rich off my hard work.


#7 - This is all part of a complicated high school and college plan to get chicks.

See responce to point 3. Typical bitter low-end guy dork that can&#39;t get a girl to save his live blaming others for his failings.

But hey, I heard about this hard working Christian guy out in Oklahoma who put a reward sign on his front yeard - "Willing to pay 1,000 dollars for a virgin bride" maybe you should follow his lead.

Take out personal ads on internet dating sites, I&#39;m sure some Virgin Fundie Stepford Thing would take you up on your offer.

See I can be kind ;)



#8 - You live in incredible abject poverty

Err no, both my parents do very well thanx for asking.


#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.

Not that beautiful unless you are a dumb relgious hayseed that wants to get rich by exploting other people.

[The Resistor]

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 10 2006, 08:06 PM
I don&#39;t belong to any of those points either.
And do those things count when your DUTCH??????? i am young to and i have a clear mind, and i am also not somebody thats tinks the rest will work for him.....Does it all count when your fully aware and are pereparing for university??????????????? Am I also lazy , or do you think its possible some people realy believe in communism ....for good reasons they do ;) ;)

[Comrade-Z]

In all seriousness, this is a good question to address. If we could figure out why people become communists when they do, we&#39;d have a much better grasp of what to do in order to advance communist revolution.

So let&#39;s see here...


But to want a revolution in America, based on Marxist ideals is not only strange, it doesn&#39;t make sense for someone who strives for more individual freedom.

Actually, one of the things that first drove me towards communism was realizing that capitalism is grossly authoritarian, that bosses are the supreme authoritarian dictators of their enterprises, that all of the democratic ideals that we are taught in school don&#39;t amount to shit, that the ruling class cares only for itself and will gladly refuse to play by its own rules (the constitution, for instance) when it seems to offer an advantage, that the U.S. military pursues imperialist ambitions without care for anything other than the well-being of the ruling class (my History of the Americas class helped out a lot with that one), etc.

In fact, originally, I wasn&#39;t really interested in the economic arguments at all. It was all about liberty. So it was a no brainer to go with anarchist-communism.


#2 - You really are a youngster; you just have a lot of time on your hands and making comments here is better than doing your studies, which, if you did them, would prepare you for a world where you&#39;d be able to pay the bills and not be a socialist anyways.

Yes, I am 18. Just graduated from high school (yeehaw&#33;) I wouldn&#39;t say I have a "lot" of time on my hands, but more now that it&#39;s the summer.

Oh, and I&#39;m going to Harvard University in the fall, so I think I am still managing to "prepare for the world."


#5 - The more unfortunate situation: No parental love in any real sense; your parents never spent time with you. No little league, no cub scouts, no God Bless America songs. So consequently, you believe that the system is to blame rather than your parents.

Plenty of parental love but, thankfully, no cub scouts or God Bless America songs. In fact, my parents were Unitarians (which is the most sorry excuse for a religion I have ever found. :lol: ) We stopped going to church regularly when I was about 8.


#6 - You simply hate to work, strive, and have no ambition, and believe society should give you everything.

Actually, I just finished an 8-hour day of tearing off a shingle roof with my dad and some friends. I actually find physical labor quite satisfying sometimes, assuming certain conditions are met (such as not having a tyrannical boss hounding me). I also enjoy studying.


#7 - This is all part of a complicated high school and college plan to get chicks.

Hey, I won&#39;t lie, it helps. :lol:


#8 - You live in incredible abject poverty in Newark or northern Manhattan, and you want to strike out against the world.

Well, I don&#39;t, but why would you criticize someone for responding to that plight in that way?


#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.

Actually I have. A whole rotten semester of it in high school.

[JimmyC]

Alexandria,

You may be right about what you wrote about yourself, but not much right about me.

Actually, I&#39;m not right wing, and have voted for both Dems and Repubs, and even a Green Party candidate once. I calls em as I sees em. (But, remember, from the point of view of a lot of Euros and Marxists, voting for a Democrat, or even a Peace and Freedom candidate (never did that, though) still makes one a right winger. Our "left" wing in the U.S. is probably center right from such a political scale.

I used to go to clubs but am now married with children, so I don&#39;t try and score with girls in the "hip" places you frequent. I&#39;m far more frightening: I&#39;m a man who&#39;s happy at 43, a "worker" who supports the U.S. of A. (but not necessarily the government, per se. It depends.) I&#39;ve studied enough history to know that 1) the U.S. has done some great things; 2) the U.S. has done some bad things; 3) every Commie nation that&#39;s come down the pike has done ONLY shitty things, and in the end represses its people beyond imagination.

I&#39;m not a "corporate" guy, though many of them are my clients. I was a painter, and now am partner with a medium large company that get contracts to paint most anything.

I don&#39;t know if that makes me a capitalist. I don&#39;t "own" the tools of production, and don&#39;t force people to work for me, and pay them a good wage to do the work they do. But a lot of them are under contract based on the job. (Probably one of the Commie failings is being able to understand the concept of "contract". The word does appear in the Constitution, and much to the frustration of radical left, for reasons I can explain why at another time.

Generally, all of us lose our coolness factor after 30, so I don&#39;t try and be that. I got enough to do w/ a wife and kids. I joined here today, so I don&#39;t know a lot of things. You can say I&#39;m a little bored. I live in the NYC area, and the weather came in and caught us unaware, and so I got some time today.

Anyway, good for you and your free drink hot looks. You sound like you&#39;re on your way to being a good little capitalist. Ha.

[JimmyC]

Z-man wrote:


#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.



Actually I have. A whole rotten semester of it in high school.


You also wrote about the Constitution as being useless or unimportant.

If you are going to Harvard, and your parents have a couple of nickles to rub together, it&#39;s amazing you continue to pretend to be anti-Constitutionalist. The document protects all you enjoyed in your life so far. Enough to make you a limosine liberal.

sorry kid, but you sound fake. It&#39;s amazing you&#39;re not banned to the I.O. board. The first thing that would happen after any leftist revolution is that anyone going to Harvard would be lined up against the wall and shot.

OK, Keep wearing the Che sweatshirts and buying the &#036;6 cup of coffee and telling yourself you can&#39;t wait for all of your private property to be non-existent, and your life to be dictated by the state.

I was young once, too. It&#39;s a phase that will pass.

[More Fire for the People]

The reason why most students become communists is because they want to negate their alienation from life. We want to abolish the pricks that control our fate so that we may control it ourselves.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

You are 43??&#33; :lol:

I&#39;m 17 and I have a better understanding of both history and politics than you do&#33;
&#39;commie nation&#39;, for one, is a condradictio in terminis (you can find what that means in the dictionary ;) ). Educate yourself a bit, then try again.

[JimmyC]

We want to abolish the pricks that control our fate so that we may control it ourselves.


Uh-Oh&#33;

Sounds like we have a free thinker and future industrialist here. Don&#39;t worry, I won&#39;t report you.

[JimmyC]

s3rna

Forget it kid. Know more than you 100 times.

Too bad your parents didn&#39;t practice cloitus interuptus.

Haw :P

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

:lol:

Your ignorance is apalling.

[JimmyC]

Ooowwww.

You got me back with that one&#33; :lol:

[ummProfessional]

"IM SMARTER THAN ALL THE ADULTS I COME ACROSS AND IM 17" bla bla bla

and your also invisible and will never die, this is what 99% of kids your age believe with all sincerity....


it&#39;s no suprise most communists are young teens looking for a place in the world, it&#39;s kind of a way of rebelling to the norms of society and the "adults" of the world....but of course once you all grow older and become aware of how the world really works, i would say a majority of you will change your mind, or will be FORCED of changing your mind because it is inevitable....since communism is utopian and will never exist, if not i think it would of existed already, i mean if it was such a great thing it would be intelligent to predict that most humans on planet earth would be leftists communists and most economic theorists and analysts wouldn&#39;t be capitalists...which tells you something..

[ummProfessional]

by the way Alexandria with that avatar, gee you must be EEEEEMOO&#33;&#33;&#33; as hell&#33; lmao hahahha i don&#39;t care if you are Catherine Zeta Jones beautiful, what a stupid life if your emo......

"ohhh man my parents are rich, and it&#39;s so hard living life with rich parents mAAAAN&#33; " :lol:

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Hmm... you&#39;re not as much fun as most of your predecessors... :(

Most of them at least try to look as if they&#39;ve got some intelligence...

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 10:52 PM
"IM SMARTER THAN ALL THE ADULTS I COME ACROSS AND IM 17" bla bla bla

and your also invisible and will never die, this is what 99% of kids your age believe with all sincerity....
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Do they really? Cool&#33; Where&#39;d you get those statistics? :D

Also with posts like the above I can take a guess at your age :lol:

[violencia.Proletariat]

it&#39;s kind of a way of rebelling to the norms of society and the "adults" of the world

So what did they do before Karl Marx? I mean going through a childish rebellion stage is in our "nature" right? :rolleyes:


....but of course once you all grow older and become aware of how the world really works

Why can&#39;t I see the world as it works now? Does being young mean you can&#39;t see things? Or do you call middle aged hopelessness "wisdom" and tell us to give up now.


i would say a majority of you will change your mind

And because you say it means its will happen, of course.


if not i think it would of existed already

Who are you to comment on when communism would exist, you have no understanding of marxist/anarchist theory.


which tells you something..

So why wasn&#39;t everyone a capitalist in 1100?

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 10:42 PM
s3rna

Forget it kid. Know more than you 100 times.

Too bad your parents didn&#39;t practice cloitus interuptus.

Haw :P
Oh and by the way, it&#39;s coitus interruptus :lol:

[JimmyC]

There is a definate point that ummProfessional makes that no one can really answer.

While the Revolution requires an industrialized development, communism, or communalism does not.

There are over 150 nations on the planet. NONE of them has chosen to live in harmony with the concepts of no profit and pure economic equality. Not a one.

And for all of you just graduating and heading for Harvard (yeah, right. sure you&#39;re going there) why not BEGIN such a community somewhere and show us all up?&#33;?

Generally, the way this thread went (where young people began telling me they&#39;re hip and I&#39;m not), it&#39;s amazing none of you want to do this.

I&#39;m starting to believe most everyone posting here is over 30 and just gaffing their time off. I mean, there&#39;s this girl on the board claiming to be 11 and 12 and sending people to a site where she&#39;s debating Marxism.

OOoh boy&#33;

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 11:17 PM
There is a definate point that ummProfessional makes that no one can really answer.

While the Revolution requires an industrialized development, communism, or communalism does not.

There are over 150 nations on the planet. NONE of them has chosen to live in harmony with the concepts of no profit and pure economic equality. Not a one.

And for all of you just graduating and heading for Harvard (yeah, right. sure you&#39;re going there) why not BEGIN such a community somewhere and show us all up?&#33;?

Generally, the way this thread went (where young people began telling me they&#39;re hip and I&#39;m not), it&#39;s amazing none of you want to do this.

I&#39;m starting to believe most everyone posting here is over 30 and just gaffing their time off. I mean, there&#39;s this girl on the board claiming to be 11 and 12 and sending people to a site where she&#39;s debating Marxism.

OOoh boy&#33;
:lol: once again

You come here, start a ridiculous thread, do not reply when asked for proof for something, you show a complete lack of intelligence/debating qualifications/knowledge on communism and related ideologies, you pose no actual questions, yet you make such a faint analysys already? :lol: :lol:

Let me give you a quote by A. Einstein (that was a famous mathemathician, you know ;) ):
"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I&#39;m not sure about the universe."

[JimmyC]

Another fart in the wind, presented to you by s3rna. :huh:

[ummProfessional]

So what did they do before Karl Marx? I mean going through a childish rebellion stage is in our "nature" right?

i thought communists didn&#39;t belive in human nature? but the reality is most teens of the world don&#39;t choose to be communists or take any radical side in the political spectrum, most "rebel" by listening to different music, become emo, have promiscuous sex, take drugs, and so on...



Why can&#39;t I see the world as it works now? Does being young mean you can&#39;t see things? Or do you call middle aged hopelessness "wisdom" and tell us to give up now.

if your communist in my eyes you have a distorted view of how things really work, hence why the majority of the people of planet earth including economic analysts and so on are not on your side...i mean let me refrase, it&#39;s not that you don&#39;t know how things work literally, like who controls the big business etc..but your theories of people working together happily ever after choosing and leaving the jobs they desire and everything will be ok, that only leaves me with the conclusion that you don&#39;t really know how things work, or should i say how HUMANS work...thats what i was meaning to say...Marx surely understood about economics, he was a great economic theorist, but new nothing about how humans interacted i can tell you that much...he sure wasn&#39;t a psychologist if you know what i mean ;) :lol:


And because you say it means its will happen, of course.

of course, there is no doubt in my mind at least one of you noobs will one day get out of your grandma&#39;s basement and see the light of day, and will obviously change your mind



Who are you to comment on when communism would exist, you have no understanding of marxist/anarchist theory.

and i take it you are an authority of when communism will exist and have major understanding of it huh&#33;? lmao, trust me if you really understand it you can only come to 1 conclusion, it&#39;s utopian, which means it&#39;s a dream world, too perfect to be true, meaning not going to happen....let me ask you, when WILL communism occur in your eyes? and what will it take for it to occur? lmao i wanna hear this one


So why wasn&#39;t everyone a capitalist in 1100?

huh? :blink: are you serious? LMFAO&#33;&#33;&#33; dude i suggest you do at least some research in wikipedia for god&#39;s sake on capitalism... what we know of today as capitalism came to existance during the 18th 19th century...and in fact humans have always worked for their profit, always had businesses for themselves, free trade and so on...

[Comrade-Z]

If you are going to Harvard, and your parents have a couple of nickles to rub together, it&#39;s amazing you continue to pretend to be anti-Constitutionalist. The document protects all you enjoyed in your life so far. Enough to make you a limosine liberal.

Ummm, actually my whole family put together makes less than &#036;80,000 a year. In terms of Harvard&#39;s financial aid brackets, that puts us in the "lower income bracket." :lol: Which means Harvard is paying for roughly &#036;39,000/year of it, and my family is making up the rest (about &#036;9,000/year, which isn&#39;t a piece of cake for us. I may have to take out some small student loans to finance some of that).


but of course once you all grow older and become aware of how the world really works, i would say a majority of you will change your mind

I think that&#39;s definitely a possibility with me, but not for the reasons you specified. I have already had some contemplation about how a life of academia (which is what I will be pursuing, most likely) will change my class consciousness. We&#39;ll see...hopefully, some involvement with NEFAC once I move up to Cambridge will keep me in touch with the realities of the proletariat.

[violencia.Proletariat]

i thought communists didn&#39;t belive in human nature?

And capitalists wouldn&#39;t know sarcasm if it bit them in the ass.


but the reality is most teens of the world don&#39;t choose to be communists or take any radical side in the political spectrum

But thats not true at all, just look at the recent events in Chile and France.


most "rebel" by listening to different music, become emo, have promiscuous sex, take drugs, and so on...

Nonsense. Most people take drugs and have sex because it feels good.


if your communist in my eyes you have a distorted view of how things really work, hence why the majority of the people of planet earth including economic analysts and so on are not on your side

Really. Most people I know the rich fuck over the poor. They think healthcare should be free and they shouldn&#39;t have to live in shit. Seems pretty close how I feel ;)


that only leaves me with the conclusion that you don&#39;t really know how things work, or should i say how HUMANS work...thats what i was meaning to say...Marx surely understood about economics, he was a great economic theorist, but new nothing about how humans interacted i can tell you that much.

So if Marx isn&#39;t an expert of human interactions what makes you one. Your arguement reeks of human nature, and you have no proof of it.


he sure wasn&#39;t a psychologist

Why would he be? Psychology is psuedo science.


and i take it you are an authority of when communism will exist and have major understanding of it huh&#33;?

Do I have an understanding of Marxist theory? Yes, I don&#39;t think I can say the same of you.

Publius is probably the only capitalist here who has ever read Marx.


it&#39;s utopian, which means it&#39;s a dream world, too perfect to be true, meaning not going to happen

How is communism a utopia? Meeting the material needs of everyone is not "utopian", it is perfectly realistic. There will still be pain, death, anger, sadness in communism.


when WILL communism occur in your eyes?

Anti capitalist revolutions will probably occur within the next 75-100 years in Western Europe.


and what will it take for it to occur?

Declining religious rates (which is happening) and economic crisis (anti western imperialism actions, which is starting to take place now too).


what we know of today as capitalism came to existance during the 18th 19th century

If it were so perfect why didn&#39;t they do it since the beggining dumbass? I&#39;m using your own arguement against you. Have you ever heard of historical materialism?


and in fact humans have always worked for their profit, always had businesses for themselves, free trade and so on...

Humans have not always worked for profit. Businesses have not always existed. If you refer to what is known as free trade today as really "free" your are just an idiot. Why do you think the third world is such a shithole? Because they aren&#39;t as smart as we are? Why do you think that everytime Bush goes to a third world country, farmers and workers come from all over to make sure he&#39;s not welcome? Why do you think people in the third world hate the WTO and IMF?

[Enragé]

Originally posted by rioters [email protected] 10 2006, 01:33 PM
#3



now i want to kill myself.
hey you&#39;re cute&#33; ;)

[ummProfessional]

And capitalists wouldn&#39;t know sarcasm if it bit them in the ass.

and yours surely gave a big bite pffff :lol:


But thats not true at all, just look at the recent events in Chile and France.

2 countries compared to 200+? wow, well i understand most activists are young, but i don&#39;t know any, nobody in fact my age interested in POLITICS and shit, at least not leftists thats for sure...


Nonsense. Most people take drugs and have sex because it feels good.

so they do it just for that? haven&#39;t you thought that sex and drugs are like the biggest fear parents have, so doing them by teens is kind of a rebellion, kind of trying what scares your parents so much&#33; trying what is sort of taboo for people your age.... haven&#39;t you noticed that once you grow older most adults are not drug users....


Really. Most people I know the rich fuck over the poor. They think healthcare should be free and they shouldn&#39;t have to live in shit. Seems pretty close how I feel

if you live in the slums of Port au Prince, Haiti i feel you BROTHA&#33; but if you live here in America, ummm i don&#39;t think most of us are leftist communists, which can be infered if you had half your brain cells working properly since the Communist and leftists parties of America get like 0.0001% of the votes each 4 years...and yes most of us want free health care, but that makes us communists? humm didn&#39;t know that :blink:


So if Marx isn&#39;t an expert of human interactions what makes you one. Your arguement reeks of human nature, and you have no proof of it.

what makes me one? so thats how you counter attack the fact that Marx didn&#39;t know shit of human interaction....and yet again another thread where another idiot says to prove human nature, jesus how many times....dude there have been so many great examples here by me and other fellow capitalists it&#39;s not even funny...
i like this one:

Overlord

If you went into certain slums in the cities of the world you could get killed by some degenerate for a nickel and your watch. Proof enough if you don&#39;t deny it?

let me ask you violencia.Proletariat, do you feel jelousy?greed? love?hate? do you have any emotions? if so than thank you for proving me correct you are my perfect example, or are you meaning to tell me dogs feel greed? pfff :lol:


Why would he be? Psychology is psuedo science

so it&#39;s a "psuedoscience" huh&#33; ohh yes the great violencia.Proletariat has spoken, with his tons of evidencial data he has showned how psychology is a pseudoscience which is basically a waist of time because it is tought at every University in the world, so anyone who is studying psychology is waisting their time because violencia.Proletariat says psychology is bullshit.... :rolleyes: you are one heck of an idiot..


Do I have an understanding of Marxist theory? Yes, I don&#39;t think I can say the same of you.

Publius is probably the only capitalist here who has ever read Marx.

well tell me how im greatly mistaken MR.Marxist Expert&#33; and i don&#39;t care if this Publius character graduated from the Revolutionary Left University of Marxist Studies, tell me how im wrong...im waiting



How is communism a utopia? Meeting the material needs of everyone is not "utopian", it is perfectly realistic. There will still be pain, death, anger, sadness in communism.

material needs is not what im refering to, like iv said before, how can you possibly believe 6 billion people will be able to choose whichever job they desired and if they don&#39;t like it, choose another of their liking? how can you think this is going to work? have you thought about the huuuuuuuuuuuge gap in the labor force? you think humans are stupid little beings with no brains? you think everyone is going to take working in a shoe factory as a hobby? give me a break man that is just laughable&#33;&#33; and YES&#33;&#33; trust me there will be LOTS OF ANGER, DEATH, and SADNESS&#33;&#33; humm does Cuba, USSR, NORTH KOREA ring a bell? ;)

WAIT&#33; you will feel anger and sadness in communism but you wont feel greed and jelousy&#33;? ahahhahaha :lol: good shit man, yeah you surely know lot&#39;s about humans and Marx did too..


Anti capitalist revolutions will probably occur within the next 75-100 years in Western Europe.

:o really, humm why haven&#39;t i heard about that then? or are you Nostradamus?


Declining religious rates (which is happening) and economic crisis (anti western imperialism actions, which is starting to take place now too).

really? so those are your indications..LMAO&#33;&#33;

well you got them both wrong buddy, you will have to wait for the invention of a mind controlling machine that will change billions of people&#39;s mind... i think 4 point something billion people are not about to give up their religious beliefs, and i do hope you understand that for communism to actually occur it has to be a global effort, communist Europe? and the rest of the world still how it is? :blink: yeah right....

western imperialist actions, yeah i know it&#39;s starting to take place, not seeing any of it in Europe though, so i can&#39;t even start imagening you actually believe the Middle East will turn communist :lol:


If it were so perfect why didn&#39;t they do it since the beggining dumbass? I&#39;m using your own arguement against you. Have you ever heard of historical materialism?

dumbass you dont understand do you...here, ill give it to you nice and easy

capitalist ideals or variations of it were tried and tested, and guess what? ohh yeah they are still surviving as we speak and thriving...accepted by the majority of the world&#39;s population..

communist ideals or variations of it were tried and tested, and guess what? have miserably failed, yeah sure you can say it wasn&#39;t the right time, capitalism had to go firs or something, and then socialism and so on and so on right ....so much for that..


Humans have not always worked for profit. Businesses have not always existed. If you refer to what is known as free trade today as really "free" your are just an idiot. Why do you think the third world is such a shithole? Because they aren&#39;t as smart as we are? Why do you think that everytime Bush goes to a third world country, farmers and workers come from all over to make sure he&#39;s not welcome? Why do you think people in the third world hate the WTO and IMF?

so according to you when did humans start working for profit and when did business come to existance? of course free trade today is not really free, of course this is not fucking liassez faire society, because in reality laissez faire is kind of flawed...if it were allowed than i could do whatever the fuck i really wanted, fuck ill make billions selling you crack since youll be hooked on it..and guess what ? even companies these days have secret ingridients and so on to hook people on their products..so yeah i think in todays day and age its as free to my knowledge that we humans have comed...

why is the 3rd world such a shit hole? simply because they always have been, because they were colonies pillaged by imperialism, and because since they have becomed independant 98% have stayed shitholes because they have chosen corrupt leaders, they have been filled with pride and nationalism and have wanted things done their way, they have becomed dependant on G8 type nations because they didn&#39;t build infrastructure since becoming independant, they have been ravaged by huge populations, high debts, terrible famines and natural disasters, huge epidemics, long civil wars, wait a minute does Africa , Latin America, Asia ring a bell here? yeah no coincidence....

why do they hate WTO? because they are illiterate people who can&#39;t percieve that in the civilized world their skills are not really valued , since they live in pretty much middle ages type societies..fuck in those times whoever picked the most tomatoes by hand can be compared to which surgeon performed the most succesful brain surgeries today...if there wasn&#39;t a WTO than how are countries going to fairly trade and how are disputes going to be settled...

and of course they are also going to hate IMF, yet again since they are illiterate ignorant people, how can the Kenyan monetary unit equal ours? thats just stupid, anyone with half a brain knows that..i mean how would a countries efforts be valued?monopoly money? surely they shouldn&#39;t be valued the same even if it was monopoly money..

and by the way i think Bush is hated everywhere, but thanks to our country these workers are employed so the irony is BITING THEIR ASS&#33; ;)

[Martyr]

Or kids from around the world just dont have any other thing to rebel so they chose to be communists and think thats rebelling.

[violencia.Proletariat]

2 countries compared to 200+? wow, well i understand most activists are young, but i don&#39;t know any, nobody in fact my age interested in POLITICS and shit, at least not leftists thats for sure...

Hmm, I forgot Greece, America, Nicaragua, Germany. Just about every country has had radical student action at some point.


haven&#39;t you thought that sex and drugs are like the biggest fear parents have, so doing them by teens is kind of a rebellion, kind of trying what scares your parents so much&#33;

Um no, that sounds like a bullshit analysis a preacher would give you. What many parents can&#39;t seem to face is that kids will always do this, because its a good time. You know while most kids probably don&#39;t have a great relationship with their parents, I&#39;m sure they aren&#39;t wasting their time on figuring out how to make them feel bad.


haven&#39;t you noticed that once you grow older most adults are not drug users

No I haven&#39;t really noticed that. Most adults drink. Many abuse prescriptions, etc, and you wouldn&#39;t even know it.


but if you live here in America, ummm i don&#39;t think most of us are leftist communists

Not at this point. But I&#39;m sure most peasants weren&#39;t capitalist revolutionaries in France 1700.


since the Communist and leftists parties of America get like 0.0001% of the votes each 4 years

You are truley ignorant of the communist movement if you think the reformists represent the revolutionary movement. A significant MINORITY here believes in reformism as way of acheiving communism. This is another reason why having this discussion with you is becoming pointless.


jesus how many times....dude there have been so many great examples here by me and other fellow capitalists it&#39;s not even funny...

I have yet to see a capitalist on this board post any scientific proof of human nature. Would you like to be the first?


let me ask you violencia.Proletariat, do you feel jelousy?greed? love?hate? do you have any emotions? if so than thank you for proving me correct you are my perfect example, or are you meaning to tell me dogs feel greed? pfff :lol:

Was overlords quote supposed to show human nature? :lol: First of all you can&#39;t test human behavior and call it science. You would have to isolate the behavior of a human for it to meet the scientific method. You can&#39;t isolate human behavior.

If anything overlord&#39;s quote proves why capitalism is bullshit. Your economic system drives people to rob out of necessity. This has nothing to do with "human nature" not allowing the success of mutual aid, it has to do with people such as yourself being convinced that bourgeois explanations for the world are the only correct ones. CAPITALISM IS NOT THE END OF HUMAN PROGRESS.


evidencial data he has showned how psychology is a pseudoscience

Can you isolate human behavior? That would mean raising a human in an unbiased society before putting them into an economic system to see their behavior. That idea is utterly implausible.


tell me how im wrong...im waiting

How your wrong about what? You&#39;ve demonstrated that you have no basic knowledge of marxist thought. What I am saying is that your comments on marxism are irrelevant to revolutionary leftists because you don&#39;t know what your talking about.


how can you possibly believe 6 billion people will be able to choose whichever job they desired and if they don&#39;t like it choose another of their liking

Historical materialism. Every country is not in the same stage of development. A communist revolution would happen in the advanced capitalist countries first. Much later would the really backwards countries follow.

I can ask you the same question. In america if you can be whatever you really want to be, then how can 250,000,000 do what you just asked? Are you trying to say that you really can&#39;t be what you want in capitalism? :lol:


you think humans are stupid little beings with no brains? you think everyone is going to take working in a shoe factory as a hobby?

Why would everybody work in a shoe factory, thats completely unecessary? The necessary tasks of basic production will be divded up amongst all. Specific luxury production would most likely be voluntary. I don&#39;t really see whats so unrealistic about this.


humm does Cuba, USSR, NORTH KOREA ring a bell? ;)

Does Cuba, the USSR, or North Korea meet the deffinition of a STATELESS, CLASSLESS SOCIETY? Godamn do you need the begginers guide to Marx?


:o really, humm why haven&#39;t i heard about that then? or are you Nostradamus?

It&#39;s a prediction that many hold. You can take it for what you want, I dont really care. It&#39;s not a guarentee, thats why it&#39;s a prediction. You asked for my prediction so I gave it to you.


i think 4 point something billion people are not about to give up their religious beliefs

Ok "buddy", if you haven&#39;t already realized, it is my view that communist revolution can only take place in the advanced capitalist countries at this point in time. If you look at the religious trends among western european countries you will find a significant atheistic/non religious base. This base is growing each year. Non religion is the fastest growing "belief (or non-belief ;) ) system" in the world.


not seeing any of it in Europe though

Christ you are fucking daft. Anti imperialist revolutions take place in the country thats being imperialised you idiot.

ohh yeah they are still surviving as we speak and thriving...accepted by the majority of the world&#39;s population..

No they aren&#39;t "accepted" by everyone. If you look back a few pages in the history you will see Redstar&#39;s article that 15% of the people in America don&#39;t think capitalism is the best economic system. Do you really think the poor of the world like capitalism?


simply because they always have been, because they were colonies pillaged by imperialism

And those countries are starting to fight back against western imperialism.


because they have chosen corrupt leaders

You mean the dictators the US has installed. Do you really think that just because a country is "independent" they still do not suffer from western imperialism?


because they are illiterate people who can&#39;t percieve that in the civilized world their skills are not really valued

Try again. It&#39;s because they are fucked over economically by these institutions.


if there wasn&#39;t a WTO than how are countries going to fairly trade and how are disputes going to be settled...

FUCKIN CHRIST, THE WTO IS NOT FAIR TRADE. WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT. It works in the interests of its main players, WESTERN IMPERIALIST COUNTRIES.

I really don&#39;t think theres any point in continuing this conversation. We are not going to convince each other of anything.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 01:17 PM
Generally speaking, it&#39;s not normal for an American youth to want to work to achieve soicalist revolution. Democratic socialist, sure, why not. May not agree with it as a concept, but I can understand why others would support it.

But to want a revolution in America, based on Marxist ideals is not only strange, it doesn&#39;t make sense for someone who strives for more individual freedom.

Here are my classifications. Please tell me which one you fall in to:

#1 - You&#39;re not really the 18 year old (or so) you&#39;re claiming to be, but are trolling around here pretending to be a radical.

#2 - You really are a youngster; you just have a lot of time on your hands and making comments here is better than doing your studies, which, if you did them, would prepare you for a world where you&#39;d be able to pay the bills and not be a socialist anyways.

#3 - You&#39;re fat, ugly, and don&#39;t fit in with the beautiful people on campus, always wanted to be one of them, and so you think that rebelling against anything is a good thing to do.

#4 - Same as #3, but you look ok, merely think in weird terms, so you run around campus dressed in black w/ freakie non-conformist buttons on your backpack and names of music groups no one&#39;s ever heard of on your t-shirts, and "working for" (you&#39;re not really working, that would be your parents) world revolution at least keeps you on the computers and off the streets.

#5 - The more unfortunate situation: No parental love in any real sense; your parents never spent time with you. No little league, no cub scouts, no God Bless America songs. So consequently, you believe that the system is to blame rather than your parents.

#6 - You simply hate to work, strive, and have no ambition, and believe society should give you everything.

#7 - This is all part of a complicated high school and college plan to get chicks.

#8 - You live in incredible abject poverty in Newark or northern Manhattan, and you want to strike out against the world.

#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.

#10 - You simply want to be "the Bag Guy".


See, commies have done nothing since the beginning of their existence but muck things up, repress people, kill people, steal from people, take from them their freedeom, religion, property, and hope.

They claim they&#39;re doing all this to redistribute everything. The problem is that they&#39;re real good at the first part, that is taking it away from the capitalist, owner, and manager. But they&#39;re real piss poor at the second part, redistributing the wealth and treating everyone equal.

To fight on their side when they&#39;ve caused so much pain and torture throughout the world is amazing.

Anyway, choose one of the 10 from above.

Thanks
I&#39;ll humor you.

1. I am exactly 18, actually.

2. I make marks over 90% with relatively little effort. I could coast through the capitalist system and easily disregard the working class.

3. I&#39;m not sure how I look, personally. Society certainly wouldn&#39;t view me as particularly beautiful. I don&#39;t desire to hang around with that crowd (I used to) because we have little in common.

4. I don&#39;t rebel for the sake of rebelling - aka be a nonconformist conformist.

5. When I was younger, I had conflicts with my stepdad, but I wasn&#39;t even socialist at that time. I always have a good relationship with him now, and my mother and father (and my stepdad though the younger me hates to admit this) have always been there for me.

6. I hate manual labor. I won&#39;t deny that, but I will ask you this. Do I hate it because of capitalism and the marignalization workers receives, or am I just lazy? I have no objection to self-induced physical work (working out or sports) and I mainly object to manual labor because I am either doing out of coercion (chores) or out of coercion and for little pay (a job, which I have). I work at McDonalds, unfortunately, but it is a valuable experience, to some extent, in building up my anti-capitlist fervor.

7. I&#39;ve never had a girlfriend, and I have never heard or got the impression that chicks find what I believe attractive. They might if I was the good-looking rebel type, but that is not the case.

8. I am from a family between middle class and upper middle class (I live in a fairly middle class home but my Dad is a university professor). Free tuition for me thanks to those capitalist connections, but I am not complaining because I have one thing everyone has a right, too. I just am recognizing that I should use my education to better the world for those people, and, through that, myself.

9. If I new more philosophy, I would have a word to describe the BS you are pulling. Your sentence has a hidden premise tha tthe US constitution is beautiful. I have never "studied it," but I am Canadian.

10. I don&#39;t associate communism with something bad so why would I want to be the Bad Guy? I want to be the Bad Guy when I make jokes about children falling down stairs not when I believe in communism.

[ummProfessional]

We are not going to convince each other of anything

well that says it all now doesn&#39;t it, specially since you didn&#39;t respond to my most important comments and my questions....but i understand ;) you can&#39;t contradict reason

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 10:38 PM

We are not going to convince each other of anything

well that says it all now doesn&#39;t it, specially since you didn&#39;t respond to my most important comments and my questions....but i understand ;) you can&#39;t contradict reason
I chose the points that we have been argueing throughout this time. I could respond to everything you have posted but theres no point in argueing with a brick wall. I look at this world through my class outlook, you look at it through bourgeois logic. Pick out what you really want to me to respond to if it&#39;s that important to you.

[ummProfessional]

I chose the points that we have been argueing throughout this time. I could respond to everything you have posted but theres no point in argueing with a brick wall. I look at this world through my class outlook, you look at it through bourgeois logic. Pick out what you really want to me to respond to if it&#39;s that important to you.

no no it&#39;s understood, fair enough my friend hehehe, not surpisingly i feel the same which is totally normal amongst humans with opposing views ;)

this is a virtual world after all, im not dying to convince anyone here, that would surely be the most pointless thing ever

[Kuro Morfos]

Originally posted by Alexandria+Jun 10 2006, 08:11 PM--> (Alexandria @ Jun 10 2006, 08:11 PM)
[email protected] 10 2006, 08:17 AM





#2 - You really are a youngster; you just have a lot of time on your hands and making comments here is better than doing your studies, which, if you did them, would prepare you for a world where you&#39;d be able to pay the bills and not be a socialist anyways

Yes, I&#39;m 17 and far smarter than the gawd fearn&#39; flag wav&#39; "I want to be rich too" so called "adults" I come accross. I just finsihed my high school junior year and have completed the 3 semesters of collage Calculus, and first year biochemestry.

So put that in your Dale Earnheart crack pipe and smoke it.


#3 - You&#39;re fat, ugly, and don&#39;t fit in with the beautiful people on campus[.

Er no, I&#39;m cute enough to get into clubs and drink for free even though I&#39;m legally not suppose to be there.

You sound to me like one of those dorky corporate guys that come in from the suburbs to score some chicks and we all laugh at you. Dorks should stay in Dorkville and stop laming up all the kewl places.


No little league, no cub scouts, no God Bless America songs.
Baseball is 4 losers, I play vollyball. Youu lose hipness points if you were or admit to being a cub scout/brownie....Being a goddess in my own right, have no need for mythical patriartical gawds, especially ones that would bless dumb hayseed such as yourself.


#6 - You simply hate to work, strive, and have no ambition, and believe society should give you everything.

Or I have a brain in my head and want to achieve some sort of work-life balance instead of killing myself to make elders and others of the "investment" class rich off my hard work.


#7 - This is all part of a complicated high school and college plan to get chicks.

See responce to point 3. Typical bitter low-end guy dork that can&#39;t get a girl to save his live blaming others for his failings.

But hey, I heard about this hard working Christian guy out in Oklahoma who put a reward sign on his front yeard - "Willing to pay 1,000 dollars for a virgin bride" maybe you should follow his lead.

Take out personal ads on internet dating sites, I&#39;m sure some Virgin Fundie Stepford Thing would take you up on your offer.

See I can be kind ;)



#8 - You live in incredible abject poverty

Err no, both my parents do very well thanx for asking.


#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.

Not that beautiful unless you are a dumb relgious hayseed that wants to get rich by exploting other people. [/b]
Are you from Perspectives?

[black magick hustla]

i want to be the bag boy :lol:

[OneBrickOneVoice]

i want to be the bag boy :lol:

Shit you beat me to it&#33; I guess I need to live in immense poverty in Manhattan and have a complicated plan to get chicks :lol:

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Oh and not just any poverty immense poverty :lol:

[anomaly]

#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I must have missed the beautiful parts. Damn.

[bezdomni]

You forgot the stereotypical commie stoner.

Free the weed&#33; Abolish capitalism&#33; Smash the state&#33; et cetera...

[black magick hustla]

man i doint know what is so outstanding about the american constitution

yeah it is filled with bleeding heart liberal hogwash, and it was like very fucking progressive when it was written.

but how is it "very beautiful"?

man you need to start reading good books, because your standards for written "beauty" are really low&#33;

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 06:33 AM
You forgot the stereotypical commie stoner.

Free the weed&#33; Abolish capitalism&#33; Smash the state&#33; et cetera...
:o :o :o That&#39;s me&#33; I fit in&#33;

[Zingu]

#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.


What makes more sense? Studying some old document completely divorced by its material conditions, or studying the social and political reality it has created?

Which makes more sense? :rolleyes:

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 01:17 PM
Generally speaking, it&#39;s not normal for an American youth to want to work to achieve soicalist revolution. Democratic socialist, sure, why not. May not agree with it as a concept, but I can understand why others would support it.

But to want a revolution in America, based on Marxist ideals is not only strange, it doesn&#39;t make sense for someone who strives for more individual freedom.

Here are my classifications. Please tell me which one you fall in to:

#1 - You&#39;re not really the 18 year old (or so) you&#39;re claiming to be, but are trolling around here pretending to be a radical.

#2 - You really are a youngster; you just have a lot of time on your hands and making comments here is better than doing your studies, which, if you did them, would prepare you for a world where you&#39;d be able to pay the bills and not be a socialist anyways.

#3 - You&#39;re fat, ugly, and don&#39;t fit in with the beautiful people on campus, always wanted to be one of them, and so you think that rebelling against anything is a good thing to do.

#4 - Same as #3, but you look ok, merely think in weird terms, so you run around campus dressed in black w/ freakie non-conformist buttons on your backpack and names of music groups no one&#39;s ever heard of on your t-shirts, and "working for" (you&#39;re not really working, that would be your parents) world revolution at least keeps you on the computers and off the streets.

#5 - The more unfortunate situation: No parental love in any real sense; your parents never spent time with you. No little league, no cub scouts, no God Bless America songs. So consequently, you believe that the system is to blame rather than your parents.

#6 - You simply hate to work, strive, and have no ambition, and believe society should give you everything.

#7 - This is all part of a complicated high school and college plan to get chicks.

#8 - You live in incredible abject poverty in Newark or northern Manhattan, and you want to strike out against the world.

#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.

#10 - You simply want to be "the Bag Guy".


See, commies have done nothing since the beginning of their existence but muck things up, repress people, kill people, steal from people, take from them their freedeom, religion, property, and hope.

They claim they&#39;re doing all this to redistribute everything. The problem is that they&#39;re real good at the first part, that is taking it away from the capitalist, owner, and manager. But they&#39;re real piss poor at the second part, redistributing the wealth and treating everyone equal.

To fight on their side when they&#39;ve caused so much pain and torture throughout the world is amazing.

Anyway, choose one of the 10 from above.

Thanks
1. 12
2. Straight A student, I&#39;d do very well under capitalism but somehow I actually CARE about those who are dying...
3. Nope. I look fine.
4. I dress ok, not a "gothic teen", come on, this is getting boring refuting all of your little stereotypes...
5. My mom loves me. My dad spends more time with his beloved plants than with his family. Guess who has to water these plants? Anyway, I&#39;m not in quite such a bad situation with parents.
6. I&#39;m trying out for (American) football at my school this coming year. This summer I&#39;m working harder than I ever have.
7. Non-sequitur.
8. Not nearly. My dad makes a lot. Then he spends half (exaggeration) of it on plants and yard stuff every year.
9. What "beauty"?
10. If I wanted to be the Bag [sic] Guy, I&#39;d be a cappie.

[Comrade-Z]

let me ask you violencia.Proletariat, do you feel jelousy?greed? love?hate? do you have any emotions? if so than thank you for proving me correct you are my perfect example, or are you meaning to tell me dogs feel greed? pfff

So, when do people love each other? When do people hate each other? When do people feel jealous? When do people feel generous?

If they were all "human nature," then they would all have to be simultaneously occuring at the same time.

A rather schizophrenic model of human behavior, to be sure. :lol:

You may argue that people are jealous more often than generous. But why is that? Does our genetic code contain information telling us to be jealous 90% of the time and generous 10% of the time.

Furthermore, you are entirely ignoring the multitude of examples of primitive communist societies in which there was no systematic exploitation or oppression of one class by another.

Kind of throws off your whole human nature argument, eh?

Marxists won&#39;t deny that greed and jealousy exist. What Marxists say is that we adopt these stances because of their utility in certain situations (when it is in one&#39;s self-interest to do so). It is still dependent on the material conditions of the given situations.

Marxists won&#39;t even deny that, if there is anything one could call "human nature," it is acting out of perceived self-interest. So, yeah, people are selfish, fundamentally. Altruism doesn&#39;t exist. Which is fine because we don&#39;t expect communism to be built on a shaky foundation of altruistic feelings. We expect communism to result from the rational self-interest of the individuals involved. People will pick communism because it self-evidently entails a better deal for themselves than capitalism.

And if this isn&#39;t clear just yet, (according to the materialist conception of history), it looks exceedingly likely that it will be self-evident in the (somewhat near) future.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Jimmy C+--> (Jimmy C)You&#39;re fat, ugly, and don&#39;t fit in with the beautiful people on campus, always wanted to be one of them, and so you think that rebelling against anything is a good thing to do.[/b]

From what I&#39;ve seen, young communists are better looking than most "good Americans". I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve ever seen a good looking Christian&#33; :lol:


Jimmy C
No parental love in any real sense; your parents never spent time with you. No little league, no cub scouts, no God Bless America songs. So consequently, you believe that the system is to blame rather than your parents.

In other words, no sustained effort to indoctrinate us into the prevailing "civic religion".

You really can&#39;t grasp what it means to be an American without seeing Little League parents physically attack an umpire over a bad call. :lol:

Were you aware of the fact that the Mormons have taken over the Boy Scouts in this country? It&#39;s true&#33; :o

I suppose you&#39;re one of those poor sick puppies that really believes that "God blesses America". You have a "God Pass" that allows you to do anything you please to others.

9/11 didn&#39;t teach you squat, did it?

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[theraven]

From what I&#39;ve seen, young communists are better looking than most "good Americans". I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve ever seen a good looking Christian&#33; laugh.gif


I suppose attracitvienes comes from perspective...but i have seen far far far more attractive christians then commies. admitteldy I havent &#39;met many commies, but those i do know are generall average looking at best, with one or two exceptions (and they fall into the catergory i put alexrendia in-the paris hitlons with a bit more braisn and a bit less money)



In other words, no sustained effort to indoctrinate us into the prevailing "civic religion".


no it means nto effort to socaizlie you with the communtiy with kids your own age


You really can&#39;t grasp what it means to be an American without seeing Little League parents physically attack an umpire over a bad call. laugh.gif


those exist, but are by far the minortiy.


Were you aware of the fact that the Mormons have taken over the Boy Scouts in this country? It&#39;s true&#33; ohmy.gif


did they? thats cool. do you have proof?

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 01:17 PM
#1 - You&#39;re not really the 18 year old (or so) you&#39;re claiming to be, but are trolling around here pretending to be a radical.
Well, do tell me how that doesn&#39;t fit with #2. Trollers tend to have lots of time on their hands. Anyway, I&#39;m afraid it&#39;s 16. Satisfied? You condescending prick. And, umm, who exactly is trolling?


#2 - You really are a youngster; you just have a lot of time on your hands and making comments here is better than doing your studies, which, if you did them, would prepare you for a world where you&#39;d be able to pay the bills and not be a socialist anyways.
Just got done with school, actually, so that does help. :lol: But do inform me how this matters, and how this is not simply another dumbass charicature brought to you by Jimmy "IM SMRATER THAN U CUZ IM OLDER LOLZZZZ".


#3 - You&#39;re fat, ugly, and don&#39;t fit in with the beautiful people on campus, always wanted to be one of them, and so you think that rebelling against anything is a good thing to do.
Umm, I&#39;ll freely admit that I&#39;m not the person who gets laid every night, but does that matter? I am by no means fat, and as for my looks, they don&#39;t really stick out to either the positive or the negative. But do tell us of your wild high school/college life. Anyway, I wasn&#39;t hanging out with the "beautiful people" at school all the time, but I could get along with most of them. And again, does it matter? "You don&#39;t hang out with my preferred clique? OMG LONELY COMMUNIST STEREOTYPE LOLLLLLL&#33;&#33;11&#33;1"


#4 - Same as #3, but you look ok, merely think in weird terms, so you run around campus dressed in black w/ freakie non-conformist buttons on your backpack and names of music groups no one&#39;s ever heard of on your t-shirts, and "working for" (you&#39;re not really working, that would be your parents) world revolution at least keeps you on the computers and off the streets.
Wrong again, sorry dude. I don&#39;t walk around in Abercrombie or Von Dutch, but I hardly look like a depressed emo loser(I&#39;ve never seen any of those in the communist movement I&#39;m in, by the way...). I have long hair, but it doesn&#39;t hang in front of my face dyed black and pink(naturally dark brown, actually), I have glasses, but they do not have thick emo rims.

And since you&#39;re so interested in dwelling on looks, or clothes in particular, let&#39;s have a look in the closet, why don&#39;t we? Let&#39;s see, what have we here... shirts of bands, well, I&#39;m still going to take half a point away from you here, as they&#39;re hardly obscure bands. They probably won&#39;t be played on any random pop station, but Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and AC/DC, just to name a few, all have a very significant following, which you would have known if you weren&#39;t so out of touch with the world yourself to be aware that there&#39;s more to teenagers than just "jocks" and "dorks". And I strongly suspect you of being either one of those, and neither of them are things to strive towards being.

Well, what else have we then? Shirts with Che on it, and one which I like very much, my red shirt with Chairman Mao on it, and another one of Uncle Ho. Ideologically reflective(although that might not be the case with Che&#33;), but hardly the clothes of choice for the "losers". Well, what else? No tight black pants, that&#39;s for sure&#33; Seriously, if you&#39;re going to try using stereotypes, you should at least have some knowledge of them. If you&#39;re 43 and can&#39;t be bothered understanding teenagers or youth culture or whatever, that&#39;s your problem, but then don&#39;t pretend you do. Like the rest of your posts here, it only reflects on your own shortcomings.


#5 - The more unfortunate situation: No parental love in any real sense; your parents never spent time with you. No little league, no cub scouts, no God Bless America songs. So consequently, you believe that the system is to blame rather than your parents.
Meh, my parents probably paid too much attention to me. As for the rest of your dumbass America-centric caricatures, guess what, not everybody is American&#33; Not me either. I haven&#39;t the slightest clue what a little league is. Scouts, not many children join them here, really. But if you must know, I did enjoy playing football("soccer") for several years until I got bored with it. As for God Bless America, well, that obviously not either, but we did always have to sing a whole range of psalms and hymns, something I actually started hating along the way(well, actually, I hated it from the start, as did most of my classmates who didn&#39;t totally have their heads up their asses).


#6 - You simply hate to work, strive, and have no ambition, and believe society should give you everything.
My work, strive and ambitions are not aligned to your bourgeois values and norms. That does not mean that they are completely absent.


#7 - This is all part of a complicated high school and college plan to get chicks.
Complicated? Yes, to you it probably would be. ;) The dumbass idea that "COMMUNIZTS GET TEH CHICKS LOLZ&#33;&#33;1&#33;1" isn&#39;t based on anything. And, as has been said, not everybody here is a heterosexual male.


#8 - You live in incredible abject poverty in Newark or northern Manhattan, and you want to strike out against the world.
Luckily, no. But I do not blame such people. If anything, this just shows the contempt that the ruling classes have for the oppressed.


#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.
Correct. Find me a 16-year-old from outside of the US who has. It probably isn&#39;t all that great, anyway.


#10 - You simply want to be "the Bag Guy".
The bag guy? You mean "bad", right? Again, tell me, how many communists are like that? I have never seen any. Playing the Soviet Campaign on Red Alert is fun, but I doubt that it has ever contributed to anybody&#39;s ideological formation.

Now then, with your, umm, "arguments" blown into next week, why don&#39;t we have a look at you? 43-year-old successful man. According to your criticism of others, I can assume that you work hard and do not have a lot of time on your hands(especially when posting here&#33; ;)), look beautiful, dress in a way that is "socially acceptable" with the "popular" clique, your parents loved you and you participated in all sorts of (Christian) activities, you have ambition, you would have been able to get "chicks" without any sort of "planning" if you weren&#39;t already married, you love your Constitution...

So what does this make you? The patronising, insulting caricatures you make here all reflect on yourself. Judging purely by your posts, as you have judged other people by their posts here, you are a has-been, you&#39;ve got a rather "prestigious" job that you work dilligently on, but your life is in no way exciting. You live with your wife and children, and when you&#39;re not cutting deals for your company, you sit on the internet making fun of teenagers while your wife is making dinner. Doesn&#39;t that sound pathetic, if you think about it? Your bitter little rants show jealousy over the fact that your looks no longer manage, and that you will have to do with your wife. You are completely out of touch with some of the very real issues and problems that go on in youths, but also the good things, which you make fun of because you have never been able to enjoy them. You drive your children to a nice religious school where they get to say "God Bless America", but you have no time for those who do not fit your values. Your life is an utter failure, and you&#39;re pissed off about it.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

JimmyC, your Americentrism is showing. My nationality is British, and I&#39;m an anarcho-communist. I don&#39;t fit into any of your narrow categories.

What I find most amusing is that the United States was founded as a secular nation, and it&#39;s Consitution was one of the most progressive documents at the time it was written, but paradoxically it&#39;s extremely religous and is a world-class fortress of reactionary ideologies.

[ummProfessional]

So, when do people love each other? When do people hate each other? When do people feel jealous? When do people feel generous?

If they were all "human nature," then they would all have to be simultaneously occuring at the same time.

so when do people feel these emotions? thats kind of a dumb question isn&#39;t it? everyone is not the same so i don&#39;t know how someone will react to something, but universally everyone feels this emotions at one time or another, which brings me to NO&#33; how can human nature mean it would have to be occuring "simultaneously" at the same time?? WTF? :blink: we are not all connected to the Matrix here ok buddy, stop watching movies.....if you have a girlfriend and i don&#39;t obviously you will fall in love most probably, hence thats human nature....if you always have more then me and always get the coolest gadgets out there and so on, chances are im surely going to be jelous...human nature is how we react when our brian stimulates our emotions, it&#39;s an inevitable and universal law for all humans....that is why if a dog walking down the street sees Paris Hilton&#39;s dog , the dog walking down the street doesn not feel a need to "steal" or feel jelous about Paris Hilton&#39;s dog, obviously he doesn&#39;t posses the human emotions of greed, selfishness...


You may argue that people are jealous more often than generous. But why is that? Does our genetic code contain information telling us to be jealous 90% of the time and generous 10% of the time.

well your are not refuting the fact that people are jelouse more often then generous, rather your asking me the question of why is that? and frankly im no expert but thank you for accepting it ;)



Furthermore, you are entirely ignoring the multitude of examples of primitive communist societies in which there was no systematic exploitation or oppression of one class by another.

Kind of throws off your whole human nature argument, eh?

the "multitude" of communist societies?? really? well i want to see this huuuge list please, and how exactly they were "communists" (ironically i bet USSR was not communist but these were:lol: )

so there was no exploitation and oppression huh, is that why even as we speak primitive tribes in Africa battle eachother out for control of cattle&#33;&#33;&#33;


Marxists won&#39;t deny that greed and jealousy exist. What Marxists say is that we adopt these stances because of their utility in certain situations (when it is in one&#39;s self-interest to do so). It is still dependent on the material conditions of the given situations.

Marxists won&#39;t even deny that, if there is anything one could call "human nature," it is acting out of perceived self-interest. So, yeah, people are selfish, fundamentally. Altruism doesn&#39;t exist. Which is fine because we don&#39;t expect communism to be built on a shaky foundation of altruistic feelings. We expect communism to result from the rational self-interest of the individuals involved. People will pick communism because it self-evidently entails a better deal for themselves than capitalism.

And if this isn&#39;t clear just yet, (according to the materialist conception of history), it looks exceedingly likely that it will be self-evident in the (somewhat near) future.

WHAT&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; are you serious&#33;? hahahahaha yeah communism is not altruistic at all :rolleyes: and how is communism going to develop better the self interest indeal than capitalism, iv always thought and it has always been approved here that it&#39;s capitlism the system that encourages greed/self interest/and all these things... i think your more capitalist than you would think buddy...

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by theraven
did they? thats cool. do you have proof?

They boast about it&#33;

http://www.watchman.org/lds/boyscout.htm

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[theraven]

Originally posted by redstar2000+Jun 12 2006, 12:40 AM--> (redstar2000 @ Jun 12 2006, 12:40 AM)
theraven
did they? thats cool. do you have proof?

They boast about it&#33;

http://www.watchman.org/lds/boyscout.htm

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif [/b]
well their doing a good job. all the momrons i know i get a logn very well with.

[overlord]

well their doing a good job. all the momrons i know i get a logn very well with.


Yeah, mormons are fine. What&#39;s wrong with them? And I get along very well with their wives.

[ummProfessional]

Yeah, mormons are fine. What&#39;s wrong with them? And I get along very well with their wives.

pfff hahahahahha there are Mormons in Australia? WOW&#33;&#33; :lol: i thought Utah was the last frontier lmao

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Aren&#39;t mormons polygamists who have like 24 kids in Utah??

[Janus]

If I were a neo-Freudian, I would think that KimmyC is simply undergoing projection. :lol:

As for this

You really are a youngster; you just have a lot of time on your hands and making comments here is better than doing your studies, which, if you did them, would prepare you for a world where you&#39;d be able to pay the bills and not be a socialist anyways.
You seem to have quite a lot of time if you post around and debate with us youngsters.

[RevSouth]

#1 - I&#39;ve never claimed to be any older than I am, a 16 year old.

#2 - This one is laughable. I am young; young enough to still have a passion for other peoples well being, something you capitalists do not. I do not study now, it is summer. When I do, I have about a 3.5 grade point average, qualify for the National Merit Scholarship, and recieved a high enough grade on the ACT to get me into any public college in my state, I plan to improve though, that was only in my freshman year.

#3 -I fit in. My high school class is small, and relatively close knit. I am not fat or ugly, either. Quite the opposite. I run for one of the better cross country teams in my city, and qualified for state last year. If you don&#39;t understand what I meant by that, I am quite thin.

#4 - I shop at thrift stores, yes, and have a backpack with non-conformist buttons. Thats where the accuracies stop. I am on the streets, so to speak, by day, and only on the computer late night, and early morning.

#5 -Wrong here, too. My parents are quite loving, and instilled me with patriotism and Catholicism, both of which I quietly reject, as I love my parents back.

#6 -I work at a plastics plant over the summer, doing odd clean up and assembly jobs.

#7 - Nope, not really interested in females. Not many radical leftist girls in the American South.

#8 - I live in working class suburbs.

#9 - Been there done that. Moved on to better documents.

#10 - Bad guy? Quite the opposite. I wish to free people from poverty, and the horrors of nationalism and racism. That leans toward good guy.

Bad things have happened under the guise of Socialism. But these were Authoritarians. If you knew your history, you may have heard of the Spanish Civil War? During this war, areas of Spain controlled by leftists became a working model of how true Socialism should be. People worked together, feared no government, and pulled together for the common good. This is the future I dream of.

[JC1]

Why am I a communist ?

This is the part where I say I&#39;m a counsince worker, Eh?

[RaiseYourVoice]

sorry but i am missing

# You live only to destroy the existance of others

# You strive to conquer the world

and

# all of the above


with limited choices i won&#39;t answer sorry <_<

[EwokUtopia]

Wow.

This is simply a ridiculous post. Jimmy C, answer me these questions:

1-You live in a prefab house that looks the exact same as all the houses around you, but with a slightly different style. Your street is named after a tree of some sort.

2-You have a crappy car that you have suped up with underlights and amps that blast crappy hip-hop ludacrisly loud so you can get girls to look at your crappy car and want to have sex with you. They rarely do however.

3-You only listen to music that is on MTV because the video&#39;s make music much better for your rapidly dying attention span. You automatically like any song that has hot, nearly naked girls in it, regardless of what the song sounds like.

4-You watch 7 hours of TV per week, and get errections when pretty ladies come on the commercial therefore you resolve to buy the product they are advertizing.

5-You believe that if you do not vote Republican, Usama Bin Laden will destroy every single person in America because he is a terrorist and he hates how awesome your way of life is.

6-You always wear a crappy, likely white, baseball cap and have a terribly styled band of facial hair across your chin.

7-You love mainstream rap, but you dont have any black friends.

8-You think that gay people arent real men, and by vocally hating gays, you reassure all those around you of your manhood.

9-A movie isnt good to you unless it has explosions or boobs or cars driving fast.

10-You masturbate to celebrities.

11-You have a small penis, but nobody notices because you drive a needlessly big car.

12-You think that you have some power over your country, or that you even matter to the people in charge. You dont understand your role as another drone in the consumer class.

13-If you have ever had frustration with life, and you do often, you think it is because you dont have a good enough car, good enough grades, a hot enough girlfriend, or any other fickle needs, you resolve to make yourself happy by attaining these things.





I could think of more if it wasnt 3:30 am,

im sure if everyone tries, we could think of any number of things that you probably are. Im sure our list will be far more accurate than yours

For the record, I qualify for #4, but what you call weird thinking, I call taste. I listen to music you could hardly guess at and dress much better than someone who wears Nike t-shirts (add that to my list). also, for number 10, I AM the Bag Guy. Just ask your mum about the bagging I gave her last night.

[bcbm]

#6 - You simply hate to work, strive, and have no ambition

Fuck, it&#39;s true. :unsure:

[MurderInc]

I&#39;ll make up a list as well.

[JimmyC]

EwokUtopia has asked me to respond to the following:

I presume you mean these responses are to be confirmations or rejections of the statements, so I will address them in that manner.

1-You live in a prefab house that looks the exact same as all the houses around you, but with a slightly different style. Your street is named after a tree of some sort.

Our home is nearly all wood. It is custom but I didn&#39;t build it. Prefabricated housing is VERY RARE in the United States for R-1 development. Perhaps you mean that it was built as part of a community plan, where, let&#39;s say, a couple hundred were built in the community, and one out of every 4 (that was a popular method) are nearly the same.

Prefabrication has been used for many apartment constructions and "tilt-up" buildings. You will find most prefabs in places like the desert. Ironically, the political left has endorced these far more than the right. They&#39;re cheap and can be broken down and transported.

As for me, the home I have does not look like others as part of a master community plan, but looks similar to a home on a television show on HBO "Six Feet Under", about a mortuar in Los Angeles. The mortuary has a similar look to my home.

Our street name is that of a famous U.S. president and military leader of the Nineteenth Century.



2-You have a crappy car that you have suped up with underlights and amps that blast crappy hip-hop ludacrisly loud so you can get girls to look at your crappy car and want to have sex with you. They rarely do however.

I have three cars: A Ford 250 Truck (for my business); an Explorer; a Mustang. I have a Honda street legal dirt bike. My wife wants us to get a more sedan like car, and we may do so after the summer. I do not do the things you mentioned for achieve fucking for fun. There is plenty of sex on the side amoung my friends, but none of it needs to be achieved through the "Van Nuys Blvd." methods you descrbe.



3-You only listen to music that is on MTV because the video&#39;s make music much better for your rapidly dying attention span. You automatically like any song that has hot, nearly naked girls in it, regardless of what the song sounds like.

I don&#39;t really watch rock videos. My children do. My 7 year old just had me buy for him Suicidal Tendancies. I was raised on that "All I wanted was a Pepsi, and she wouldn&#39;t give it to me" song. It&#39;s good to see my sons enjoy the same stuff. My wife drags me to dance to 80s music with her, and a lot of that stuff is fun. An interesting note to what you asked about, the naked women and such: My sons were watching a movie (I don&#39;t know the title) where some group, punk I think, was screaming about how Richard had hung himself while the crowd was stripping a girl naked. I admit I enjoyed that scene a lot. (Though Cheryl threw a pillow at me.)



4-You watch 7 hours of TV per week, and get errections when pretty ladies come on the commercial therefore you resolve to buy the product they are advertizing.

Yes, I get hard looking at pretty women. Go figure. I nearly watch no commercials. The machine we have attached to the TV allows us to "blip" them away as we FF, nearly removing them, and the other movies on speical channels don&#39;t have them. To be honest with you, I can&#39;t remember any of the commercials I&#39;ve seen (perhaps they play on me subliminally.) I think it is YOU who have been watching too much TV. Only characters on commercials say things like, "Honey, I&#39;m going to buy that new Product X". Real people don&#39;t talk about commercials or acknowledge them.



5-You believe that if you do not vote Republican, Usama Bin Laden will destroy every single person in America because he is a terrorist and he hates how awesome your way of life is.

I thought it was "Osama". But I could be wrong. I have voted many different parties: Reps, Dems and one Greenie recently. Bin Laden is a modern day Hitler, and I don&#39;t believe a Republican administration is "better" at dealing with him than a "Democratic" one.



6-You always wear a crappy, likely white, baseball cap and have a terribly styled band of facial hair across your chin.

For reasons I won&#39;t get into, my wife prefers I have no facial hair. I wear a Yankee&#39;s cap when I paint (that&#39;s what I do.) It is dark blue.



7-You love mainstream rap, but you dont have any black friends.

I have three friends who are black; one of them is one of my closest four male friends. Two of them are "fringe friends", who I see on occasion. I do not listen to rap. I generally do not like it. It doesn&#39;t "do" anything for me. Though my close friend I mentioned listens too it all the time.



8-You think that gay people arent real men, and by vocally hating gays, you reassure all those around you of your manhood.

I support the State of New York changing its laws to allow homosexual marriage.



9-A movie isnt good to you unless it has explosions or boobs or cars driving fast.

You FINALLY got me on one. 110% correct. (Lower nudity is also a good thing.)



10-You masturbate to celebrities.

The last celebrity that did anything for me was Ursula Andress in Dr. No. I&#39;m not impressed by celebrity, and have never spanked it to an actress. It&#39;s actually a lot more fun to fantasize to women you meet every day, but that&#39;s just my opinion.



11-You have a small penis, but nobody notices because you drive a needlessly big car.

LOL. That was funny. You actually made me laugh out loud with that one. I thought it was a fast sports car that is used for "compensation" jokes, not a large car.



12-You think that you have some power over your country, or that you even matter to the people in charge. You dont understand your role as another drone in the consumer class.

Yes to A; No to B.



13-If you have ever had frustration with life, and you do often, you think it is because you dont have a good enough car, good enough grades, a hot enough girlfriend, or any other fickle needs, you resolve to make yourself happy by attaining these things.

I get frustrated, sure. Every other day at least. Probably drink too much because of it. Worried about one of my sons right now and how he projects his image and treats people, and what will happen to him if he continues to be a jerk to his friends/fellow students. A better car or cooler clothes won&#39;t help any of that. Consumer items (I notice you mention them a lot) don&#39;t really benefit one, other than serving the purpose for which they were acquired.



I could think of more if it wasnt 3:30 am,
im sure if everyone tries, we could think of any number of things that you probably are. Im sure our list will be far more accurate than yours
For the record, I qualify for #4, but what you call weird thinking, I call taste. I listen to music you could hardly guess at and dress much better than someone who wears Nike t-shirts (add that to my list). also, for number 10, I AM the Bag Guy. Just ask your mum about the bagging I gave her last night.

Probably so. She&#39;s just hittin 60, and got knocked up with me when she was 15. Truth is, back then she fell backward rather easily. I&#39;ll give her a call and ask her how you were. She has a joke that two men can please one woman easier than one man can please two women. So I hope you brought a friend.

[RedCeltic]

See, commies have done nothing since the beginning of their existence but muck things up, repress people, kill people, steal from people, take from them their freedeom, religion, property, and hope.


This is simply untrue. Since we are looking communists in the United States, let us look at some of the contributions communists have given to America.

Communists helped form the ACLU, they helped in the labor movement and the fight to form unions and were very successful in the pacific northwest and the maritime industry for example. Communists were quite influential in the woman’s suffrage movement and many leaders of the woman’s suffrage movement such as Helen Keller were also communists. Communists also played a significant role in the civil rights movement and many of those leaders such as WEB Dubois and Paul Robeson were among the ranks of communists in that movement from very early on. In the 60’s and the rise of the anti war movement communist played key roles in organizing against the war in Vietnam. Also in the sixties and the seventies with the rise of feminism the ideology of Marxism played a key role in formulation of the debate.. and today many feminists identify themselves as Marxists.

Today communists, Socialists, and Anarchists continue the struggle by fighting against globalization, Nafta, IMF, the world bank etc. They continue to be a vocal and influential voice and organizing body against the Iraq war as well as the debate over immigration reform.

As for myself, I am 35 and don’t fit into any of your descriptions of “wanna be communist kiddies” although admittedly there are some that do.

[JimmyC]

RedCeltic,

A very good response. I wish more here were like that.

Based on the vast majority of commentary given here, however, including the views of the administration of RevLeft.com, the description you gave of commies contributing to the ACLU, 19th Amendment and labor movement in the U.S. would qualify them, and you for supporting their actions, as a restricted member.

Everyone here who&#39;s a Marxist believes the 19th Amendment is a sham, that all voting is a sham, that the U.S. Labor movement is a sham, and that the ACLU, in defending the Constitution, makes them supporters of the oppression caused by America.

Makes you think, don&#39;t it?

[RedCeltic]

Well I think that what you are pointing out is the debate over reformism or revolution. Reforms have not always brought about the best results. Communists may have helped to form the ACLU; however it turned its back on communists very early on and expelled communists such as Elizabeth Gurley Flynn. The 19th amendment seems pretty sound as it provides a voice in the ballot box regardless of sex. However many women, including many who helped to fight for it had found themselves on the wrong side of the color line and it took the repeals of the Jim Crow laws for their voting rights to be fully realized.

However I think that it is important to use different strategies in the fight for socialism depending on the political climate. In some instances public distain for a corrupt tyranny, lack of political discourse and deep public need for revolutionary change makes a violent overthrow of government the only logical vehicle for a push towards socialism.

We are talking about the United States however. Any belief in an armed struggle within this political climate comes from quite delusional and marginal characters. Now admittedly there are some that seem to believe that selling newspapers and books is the way to push to revolution (such as the RCP and the SWP). I’m one however that believes that winning the hearts and minds of the people is a prerequisite for revolution and grass roots organizing has proven to be an effective tool. Much more effective I think than continually publishing newspapers that nobody reads.

[Morag]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 01:17 PM
Here are my classifications. Please tell me which one you fall in to:

#1 - You&#39;re not really the 18 year old (or so) you&#39;re claiming to be, but are trolling around here pretending to be a radical.

#2 - You really are a youngster; you just have a lot of time on your hands and making comments here is better than doing your studies, which, if you did them, would prepare you for a world where you&#39;d be able to pay the bills and not be a socialist anyways.

#3 - You&#39;re fat, ugly, and don&#39;t fit in with the beautiful people on campus, always wanted to be one of them, and so you think that rebelling against anything is a good thing to do.

#4 - Same as #3, but you look ok, merely think in weird terms, so you run around campus dressed in black w/ freakie non-conformist buttons on your backpack and names of music groups no one&#39;s ever heard of on your t-shirts, and "working for" (you&#39;re not really working, that would be your parents) world revolution at least keeps you on the computers and off the streets.

#5 - The more unfortunate situation: No parental love in any real sense; your parents never spent time with you. No little league, no cub scouts, no God Bless America songs. So consequently, you believe that the system is to blame rather than your parents.

#6 - You simply hate to work, strive, and have no ambition, and believe society should give you everything.

#7 - This is all part of a complicated high school and college plan to get chicks.

#8 - You live in incredible abject poverty in Newark or northern Manhattan, and you want to strike out against the world.

#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.

#10 - You simply want to be "the Bag Guy".

Anyway, choose one of the 10 from above.
And if we fall in to none of these catagories, do we destroy your little dream world, JimmyC?

#1: Er, well. I claim to be what I am. 22.

#2: Work full-time and go to university full-time. And I&#39;m one of the top students in my program, which is at one of the top universities in the English-speaking world... So, suffice it to say I shove more into my day then most, and still post at boards. And I manage to pay the bills, somehow.

#3: Cute blonde, actually. And am I the only person in the world whose high school didn&#39;t have cliques?

#4: No. Just no.

#5: Too many activities and an embarrassing amount of support and love, if I remember the pain of my father holding an enlarged picture of my first birthday at the provincial championships and shouting, "I raised her&#33;" Both mommy and daddy, by the way, taught me early on that life was hard and I&#39;d have to work- they knew the truth, and also taught me that capitalism was no one&#39;s friend unless they had the keys to the factory.

#6: I don&#39;t think I should have to work forty+ hours a week while going to school full-time (which I do to fully contribute to society in the future) just to survive even with copious amounts of private loans and scholarships, no. I do think society owes me at least as much as they owed your generation.

#7: I like the cock, and I don&#39;t need any complicated plans to get it, either.

#8: I don&#39;t even know what North Manhattan is like, but I&#39;m pretty sure abject poverty isn&#39;t how most would term it. However, I grew up in a lovely little town with plenty of green space and caring neighbours.

#9: Well, again, I don&#39;t think beauty is the right term. I have studied it though, comparatively with other constitutions, and it&#39;s really quite average. Now, the Mexican constitution is a thing to behold, if only they enforced it instead on trampling on it...

#10: Er. Well, no. But then, based on this list, I suppose this is your view of communists in general. Not surprising, considering when you grew up and where, but really, get a clue. Just because your pretty life has turned out all right doesn&#39;t mean that the call of liberation should fall on deaf ears around the world. Your lifestyle was subsidised for too many years by the third world, and recently even the enormous crushing poverty of the third world can no longer keep the American people happy. And what&#39;s more, they finally want the reward they were promised for so many years... So, in the case of ending your little American Dream and making the world better, yes, JimmyC, I do want to be teh Bad Guy (or girl, actually).

[bezdomni]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 03:31 AM
Aren&#39;t mormons polygamists who have like 24 kids in Utah??
Yes.

And every black person is out to rob you blind.

:rolleyes:

[Raisa]

I am catergory number ten. Which you dont have on there.

I look better then any ***** you can ever buy with your capitalism. I always worked hard, even in slave labor jobs that dont give a break while I went to highschool in the day to keep my people&#39;s heads up and my own. I am everything great, and I am still a communist because making shit wages and growing up how I did I would be a stupid ***** to support a system that never supported me.

By your own fucking logic thats stupid, so what the hell are you trying to tell us?

A selfish capitalist would never stand for someone who didnt stand for him.
I am a capitalist by my own right too then. Im greedy selfish and I could even care less if there was another great depression, just because it would wet my pantyless skirt to walk by cubicles in social services and hear some of yall *****ing to the social worker for food stamps, or waiting in long lines for stupid shit. Or taking your kids to a cheap family doctor where their in the waiting room with a bunch of our snotty nosed ghetto ass kids where you can sit for hours waiting to get seen for some robitussin, cause thats what theyll give you. And I know yall hate to wait for shit, I see it at work. Thats the middleclass justification against socialism "DO YOU REALLY WANT TO WAIT IN LINE?&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;FOR [email protected]&#33;@"
*****, poverty is all about waiting in line. :lol:

I am the shit and I am still a communist. Put that in your mouth, sucka&#33;

[MurderInc]

Help&#33;

[LSD]

Hey&#33; Why d&#39;ya delete your accusation? I was just about to challenge you on it&#33; :P

[RedCeltic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 12:47 AM
#8: I don&#39;t even know what North Manhattan is like, but I&#39;m pretty sure abject poverty isn&#39;t how most would term it. However, I grew up in a lovely little town with plenty of green space and caring neighbours.


North Manhattan is also known as Harlem. Although it is not the ghetto it once was, many there still do live in abject poverty.

[Morag]

Originally posted by RedCeltic+Jun 13 2006, 07:13 PM--> (RedCeltic &#064; Jun 13 2006, 07:13 PM)
[email protected] 13 2006, 12:47 AM
#8: I don&#39;t even know what North Manhattan is like, but I&#39;m pretty sure abject poverty isn&#39;t how most would term it. However, I grew up in a lovely little town with plenty of green space and caring neighbours.


North Manhattan is also known as Harlem. Although it is not the ghetto it once was, many there still do live in abject poverty.[/b]


Okay, right. Harlem is pretty famous for being a nasty place to live, but at the moment, don&#39;t Bill and Hilary call it home? (That isn&#39;t to draw away from the fact that it&#39;s not a good place, though. Just an observation that not all of it can be terrible. Plus I&#39;ve heard that there are some really successful urban renewal projects going on there). And also, thinking of "most" as the majority of people, in the world, it might still seem fairly desirable. I bet it has schools and piped water, right, even if their inadequate?

[RedCeltic]

thinking of "most" as the majority of people, in the world, it might still seem fairly desirable. I bet it has schools and piped water, right, even if their inadequate?

Oh, ok I get your point here. To be fair, I wasn&#39;t defending JimmyC I just thought he could have been a bit more clear than just saying "North Manhattan" when Harlem itself is kind of world famous on mythical proportions as once being one of New York&#39;s worst ghettos. But you&#39;re right, it&#39;s still not the worst place to live in the world... or even the worst place to live in the United States.

[Janus]

Aren&#39;t mormons polygamists who have like 24 kids in Utah??
They banned that in the late 19th century. Every once in a while you&#39;ll find some polygamist who claims to be a Mormon though.


that the U.S. Labor movement is a sham
Who said that? Certain parts of it were "shams" but other activities were quite radical and progressive.

[RedCeltic]

There are many problems with the labor movement in the United States. Workers in the United States can only look upon the labor movement in Europe to see what kind of strong labor movement we could have yet never will as long as we continue to let anti labor voices, corporate unions and undemocratic unions muck things up.

Perhaps JimmyC misinterprets the debate over the failings of the AFL-CIO as being against the labor movement in general. Don’t ever forget that Samuel Gompers formed the American Federation of Labor (AFL) partly to fight against radical unionism such as the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW), and partly to make unions simply the “labor components of business”.

[Sir Aunty Christ]

I am 6.

And soon I will be 7.

[Avtomatov]

None of those descriptions fit me. I beleive in my own ideology I call Darwinian Socialism. I dont agree in welfare i think everything should be worked for. Then you ask doesnt capitalism do a good enough job of it? Well you are ignoring all the injustices, the oppression, the aristocracy. You see all i want is equal opportunity, capitalism is an aristocracy, equal opportunity is not possible in capitalism.

[CubaSocialista]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 01:17 PM
Generally speaking, it&#39;s not normal for an American youth to want to work to achieve soicalist revolution. Democratic socialist, sure, why not. May not agree with it as a concept, but I can understand why others would support it.

But to want a revolution in America, based on Marxist ideals is not only strange, it doesn&#39;t make sense for someone who strives for more individual freedom.

Here are my classifications. Please tell me which one you fall in to:

#1 - You&#39;re not really the 18 year old (or so) you&#39;re claiming to be, but are trolling around here pretending to be a radical.

#2 - You really are a youngster; you just have a lot of time on your hands and making comments here is better than doing your studies, which, if you did them, would prepare you for a world where you&#39;d be able to pay the bills and not be a socialist anyways.

#3 - You&#39;re fat, ugly, and don&#39;t fit in with the beautiful people on campus, always wanted to be one of them, and so you think that rebelling against anything is a good thing to do.

#4 - Same as #3, but you look ok, merely think in weird terms, so you run around campus dressed in black w/ freakie non-conformist buttons on your backpack and names of music groups no one&#39;s ever heard of on your t-shirts, and "working for" (you&#39;re not really working, that would be your parents) world revolution at least keeps you on the computers and off the streets.

#5 - The more unfortunate situation: No parental love in any real sense; your parents never spent time with you. No little league, no cub scouts, no God Bless America songs. So consequently, you believe that the system is to blame rather than your parents.

#6 - You simply hate to work, strive, and have no ambition, and believe society should give you everything.

#7 - This is all part of a complicated high school and college plan to get chicks.

#8 - You live in incredible abject poverty in Newark or northern Manhattan, and you want to strike out against the world.

#9 - You have never studied the beauty of the United States Constitution.

#10 - You simply want to be "the Bag Guy".


See, commies have done nothing since the beginning of their existence but muck things up, repress people, kill people, steal from people, take from them their freedeom, religion, property, and hope.

They claim they&#39;re doing all this to redistribute everything. The problem is that they&#39;re real good at the first part, that is taking it away from the capitalist, owner, and manager. But they&#39;re real piss poor at the second part, redistributing the wealth and treating everyone equal.

To fight on their side when they&#39;ve caused so much pain and torture throughout the world is amazing.

Anyway, choose one of the 10 from above.

Thanks
Oh, ah, the scathing criticism has torn away from me the blinding veil of youth&#33; I now see the capitalist light&#33;


After all, we all know that capitalism NEVER takes advantage of teens or profit off of their testosterone-flooded selves&#33;

[bezdomni]

Your entire premise is off anyway.

Since when did "most young americans" ever become communists?

[CubaSocialista]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 11:22 PM
Your entire premise is off anyway.

Since when did "most young americans" ever become communists?
Since Evangelical Christians started becoming persecuted, the Jesuits started dominating world politics, the Jews dominating the media, and the Bible was banned by the anti-Christ. :rolleyes:

This guy is just a bother.

[Morag]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 11:22 PM
Your entire premise is off anyway.

Since when did "most young americans" ever become communists?
Since now&#33; The revolution begins tomorrow&#33; :P

[MurderInc]

Hey, what&#39;s all this about tomorrow?

[JimmyC]

Red Celtic,

One of the problems associated with socialists critiquing (sp? kri-TEEK-ing) American labor movements is that they are American labor movements, not socialist labor movements.

No one can deny the history of labor organization in America is rife with goon, bought police, corporate murder and so forth.

But the American union movement of Gompers and so forth got it right...Capital has to make a profit or else there&#39;s no labor to organize in the first place. He and his friends used to work while one read Marx, and all the others, and whether they agreed with doctirne or not, they all concluded, correctly, that socialism and American do not mix.

It is possible that socialism (they way Revolutionaries envision it) and Europe cannot exist. It failed in Russia and China, even where China was the closest to come to achieving it, both philosophically and practically. (Their being spread out into so many small communities made local socialism easier than that mess in the USSR).

But ANY attempt to create Revolutionary Socialism would fail in America, because we love our freedom and you&#39;d have to end it to create your Dictatorship of the Proletariat or whatever you call it.

We&#39;d fight you and kick the shit out of you, and the Army and Navy would never follow anything but the civilian control is has followed for 225 years. Not a bad track record. Good luck matching that one. Every country in the world has its citizens going to bed wondering what the Army will do in its own country, except America, which knows its army will ALWAYS AND FOREVER follow NCA (that is, National Command Authority, which is the President and others in line of succession). No other country can come close.

But back to labour: Look RedCeltic, it&#39;s just not our bag, baby (Austin Powers would say). So, whose stopping you from enforcing a socialsim in other countries anyway? Why not revolt in Norway? You&#39;re 3/4 the way there anway.

But, as the purpose of this thread is stating, the young people are not normally political, let alone communist. And they never ever will be. They didn&#39;t come out for McGovern in &#39;72; they didn&#39;t come out for Kerry in &#39;04; they won&#39;t come out for Marx anytime in the 21st Century. They&#39;ll be too busy buying things.

But when push comes to shove, they will, however, come out for Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, FDR, and King.