I still don't know

[Red Menace]

I was a capitalist, and then I started thinking alot about politics and things wrong with the world. And I've arived here. That was about 6 months ago. So I'm still a rookie when it comes to this. I read what you guys post and I don't have a clue what you are talking about, I wish did though. It's not you guys its me. I wish I could talk like you guys, but I don't know if it could be taught. But the things I do know I talk to people about and now everyone I know thinks that I'm absolutly nuts. I have no one I can relate with or talk politics with because everyone I know is a republican. I still can't label myself though as a communist, anarchist, socialist, etc.... there are things that I agree with for each and everyone but there are things that I disagree with as well. What's my problem? Can anyone help me? :(

[R_P_A_S]

shit. this sounds like my post from last week. i feel you! it takes time to learn all the vocab and learn the history and everything. just be patient.

[BobKKKindle$]

Well, there are a few sites that you might want to check out to learn the basics before you feel confident enough to join in discussions:

http://www.resistancemp3.lpi.org.uk/ (lectures)
http://www.redstar2000papers.com/theory.php
http://www.socialistaction.org/resources.htm

Alternatively, you may wish to Pick up 'Introducing Marxism' by Rupert Woodfin and Oscar Zarate (Its part of a series of intorductions actually) Simple to read, and its has cartoons! Woo! :P

But I gotta say that I respect you for perservering and trying to find out more about revolutionary leftism! When I first 'awoke' to the evils of the world, I was scared away by long words such as 'Dialectical materialism' and 'Surplus Value' :D IF you are reading something and really cant understand it, dont hesitate to ask (although maybe not in OI) a fellow comrade! We were all in your position once, so we will be happy to help comrade.


I wish I could talk like you guys

Its not about the vocab - its about believing that Socialism will bring a better world despite what the Capitlaists tell you. And I am sure that your 'beat' many people on this site in that area!

[Red Menace]

I appreciate the help and support comrades
thank you :)

[rebelworker]

This has been a big problem with the left for a long time. Too many intelectuals spouting a bunch of big words not enough reaching people on day to day issues.

Dont worry about feeling intimidated. Alot of the problems of a class society are repeated in the left. People who do very little talk an awful lot and become experts without being able to talk to ordinary people.

So many people are republicans(or right wing) because the left is way too eleitist.

I sugest first thinking about what issues make you angry, working too hard for too little?
Conservative social values feel restrictive? tiered of having no real power?

I suggest getting involved in movements trying to change these things, let your political theory grow from that. Reading theory is good, but its better to learn from experience, or other peoples experiences, so as not to make the same mistakes again. Or even better lear what has already been done, what is possible.

I recomend a few good books on radical movements trying to change the system.

A classic video you are CERTAIN TO FIND IN A LIBRARY is Noam Comsky, "manufacturing consent". probably the single best introduction to politics in america today that you will easily find.

unfortunatly many books are expensive, and the best ones from the left cant be found in a library, but there is also lots of good stuff free online.

"Poll Tax Rebellion" (http://www.akpress.org/1996/items/polltaxrebellion) by Danny Burns.
this is about a huge rebellion that happened in england about 15 years ago, its the best example of a modern popular uprising in a wester country in recent history. not too expensive.

"Detroit: I do mind dying, a study in urban revolution" (http://www.akpress.org/1998/items/detroitidominddying) by
Marvin Surkin and Dan Georgakas
This is about one of the most interesting revolutionary organisations in modern US history. Black autoworkers built organisations in most of Detroits large autoplants in the seventies, looks at the successes and failures of a marxist style vanguard party.

For more actual revolutionary history, the Russian Revolution and Spanish Revolution are classic anarchism vs authoritarian marxism studies.

for some free online stuff check out

"the Blosheviks and Workers Controll" (http://www.zabalaza.net/pdfs/varpams/bolshies&workercontrol.pdf) by Maurice Brinton
This is an absolute must read, looks at what actually happened in the factories and soviets during the "russian revolution". Unfortunately this pamphelet is laid out in printable format, so unless you print it out it will be very hard to read.

One you migth be able to find in the library, but Ill warn you its very big(I havnt read it yet) is "The Unknown Revolution" (http://www.akpress.org/2004/items/unknownrevolution) by Voline. Written by an anarchist, this is a partisan eyewitness account of the revolution seen from outside the bolshevik party.

Also a often ignored but spectacualr part of the revolution is what was goin on in the Ukrain. Anything about Nestor Makhno or the makhnovchina, the revolutionary peasants army the fought off Invading Germans, the Ukranian Monarchy and later the betrayal by Trotsky. Lots more fighting/action than most revolutionary histories...


For the Spanish civil war, read Orwells "Homage to Catalonia" or rent the Film "Land and Freedom" by Ken Loach(based loosely on Orwells book).

For more in depth stuff check out
"The Spanish Civil War : Anarchsim in Action" (http://www.zabalaza.net/pdfs/varpams/spanish_revolution.pdf)

or "The Freedom to succed :Anarchist Collectives in the Spanish Countryside" (http://www.zabalaza.net/pdfs/varpams/spanishruralcollectives.pdf)

both only available in a printable version(sorry).

for more general free online theory check out "The Zabalaza Anarchist Communist Federation" (http://www.zabalaza.net/theory.htm)'s online theroy page. Its agood start to Anarchist theory.

I could go on forwever but I hope this gets you started.

[Nachie]

You can find a direct HTML (and therefore, easier to read) version of "The Bolsheviks and Workers' Control" RIGHT HERE (http://www.spunk.org/texts/places/russia/sp001861/bolintro.html). It is definitely an essential analysis of the counter-revolutionary nature of Leninism from a Marxist perspective, so I would also recommend it.

Also I think probably the single best all-around site that I can recommend to any "beginner" is http://www.prole.info. Whoever put that site together, pretty much got it right.

[The Grey Blur]

If you have any problems just send me or any other friendly posters a private message, we'd be happy to break down any harder concepts for you

And yes, I am a friendly poster :lol:

[violencia.Proletariat]

Haha, rebelworker I don't think Brinton's essay is an easy read for a begginer to start with.

I'll post a few links which introduce anarchism. These are online books that are pretty long but you might be able to find them in a city library.


What is Anarchism? By Alexander Berkman

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archi...whatis_toc.html (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)

The Conquest of Bread By Peter Kropotkin

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archi...nquest/toc.html (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/kropotkin/conquest/toc.html)

[More Fire for the People]

I will try to come up with an abridged explanation of Marxism.

The dictionary:
alienation — feelings of detachment from the real world;
class conflict — the conflict between economic classes;
immiseration — the process of making the underclasses poorer;

Marxism states that man’s real essence is made into an object of reality through his labor. Under class society man’s products are not owned by himself but by the ruling class. Example, Ms. Kollontai makes a table utilizing her own labor, but the table is not hers; the table ‘belongs’ to the capitalist who employs her. She is alienated from her product because she is detached from the object of reality she has created.

In addition to alienation, Ms. Kollontai, like the rest of the working class, faces immiseration. Either her actual living standards decrease or the wealth of the capitalist increase more rapidly than her own. Thus, a conflict arises between Mr. Capitalists and Ms. Kollontai. These conflicts are the driving force of history.

History moves from class society to class society. Humans began living under a form of primitive communism — no one exploited another person’s labor because there was no need for exploitation.

After the agricultural revolution, large farms were had to maintain by oneself or by one’s family. Thus, when primitive cities conquered one another, they would take slaves to toil in their farms.

From slave societies humanity moved towards feudalism. The causes for feudalism were diverse: low population density, abundance of fertile land, and the decline of industry. Under feudalism, lords would contract serfs to work on their fields. In the few cities that existed, a similar system was set up. Guilds would contract laborers to work for the guild.

From feudalism, humans came to capitalism. The explanation for this movement of history is called the materialist conception of history. The premises of the materialist conception of history are: Humans are social animals who live in a complex society.
Human society consists of humans collectively working on nature to make the means to life.
Human society develops a complex division of labour.
Over time, unlike ants or bees, humans get better in their harnessing of nature through the development of science and technology.
Human beings have the ability to reflect on their society and interaction with nature, but their thinking and organisation are always dependent on the state of development of their society and of the power structures in their society.

[Red Menace]

I am learning quite alot
Thank you once again comrades

[BobKKKindle$]

While not exactly Marxist theory, or even entirely Marxism, you might also be interested in learning a little about the events of May 1968 in france when it comes to Revolutionary History. For me, this is by far the most inspiring event, even more so than The October Revolution! Not least because the power originated in the hands of ordinary students!

If you're interested, you might wish to pick up 'When Poetry Ruled the Streets' by State Uni of NY Press. Alternatively, you might choose to skim over the following text on Prole.

http://www.prole.info/articles/paris68.html

If you do choose to read the text (which I sincerely reccommend you do) but dont have much time on your hands, you should skip down to the section entitled 'The Sorbonne Soviet'. Its describes what the students did....and well - Prepare to be inspired! I found it incredible to read anyway.

But on a more general note, Marxism, for me, is basically all the injustice and insecurity of Capitalism analysed within a scientific framework. Of course, Science often describes very simple things with complicated terminology! There are in fact some things you can skip, in my personal view. Dialectics springs to mind - its verbose, confusing, and not necessary.


These conflicts are the driving force of history.

Hence the first line of the Communist Manifesto is "The History of all Hitherto Society is a History of Class Struggle". We call these conflicts between workers and Capitalists 'class antagonisms'. Some Leftists also believe that antagonisms can exist on the basis of age, ethnicity, and gender - for example, feminists.

[Comrade_Scott]

Hey im sorta new here so i was wondering if you guy no any books i could get to read and help me understand more... i already know the basics and have read the manifesto...all sugestions welcome thanks in advance