Pascal's wager

[Majkrazam]

Don't you guys think that it's safer to believe in G'd rather then not to believe in him and suffer the consequences of that?

[Publius]

Don't you guys think that it's safer to believe in G'd rather then not to believe in him and suffer the consequences of that?

No.

A God that could care if you believed in it or not is logically impossible.

I could demonstrate this, but I don't feel like it now.

Just take my word for it.

[Cult of Reason]

Very simple answer: which God? There are several to choose from, and if you get the wrong one it is all in vain anyway.

[Majkrazam]

hehe, but the consequences of not believing in G'd are far more dire than not believing in him.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 09:33 PM
hehe, but the consequences of not believing in G'd are far more dire than not believing in him.
Yeah, your right that would be true if god(s) existed, problem is god(s) don’t so there are no consequences.

You could say the same thing about Santa Clause, If you don’t believe in him you wont have any presents.

[Majkrazam]

Yeah but thats might point we don't know if G'd exists so isn't it safer to just believe in him?

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 09:41 PM
Yeah but thats might point we don't know if G'd exists so isn't it safer to just believe in him?
No because god(s) don't exist. Why should I live my life in the service of god(s) on the possibility they might exist, sorry no thanks, I’m going to live my life how i want, plenty of sex, drugs and blasphemy.

[Majkrazam]

Don't you understand odds and risks?

[RevMARKSman]

Kissing Hank's Ass (http://churchofreality.org/wisdom/does_god_exist)
"You wouldn't risk a million dollars, would you?" :lol:

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 04:06 PM
Don't you guys think that it's safer to believe in G'd rather then not to believe in him and suffer the consequences of that?
Well you would go to hell for this anyways because you aren't worshiping god because you accept him as your one and only head but because you don't want to be punished.

Oh yeah god doesn't exist. (repeating this is getting really old :P )

[Majkrazam]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 09:41 PM
Well you would go to hell for this anyways because you aren't worshiping god because you accept him as your one and only head but because you don't want to be punished.

Hate to be a dick but he does, I just don't have the time to find the passage.....or a bible.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by Majkrazam+Jun 7 2006, 05:44 PM--> (Majkrazam @ Jun 7 2006, 05:44 PM)
[email protected] 7 2006, 09:41 PM
Well you would go to hell for this anyways because you aren't worshiping god because you accept him as your one and only head but because you don't want to be punished.

Hate to be a dick but he does, I just don't have the time to find the passage.....or a bible. [/b]
Meh, have you been a good christian lately? How many infidels have you stoned? You have to do it, the bible says so,



Deuteronomy 13:6-10

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.



2 Chronicles 15:13

Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

[Majkrazam]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 09:53 PM
Meh, have you been a good christian lately?

Wrong religion.




And a Christian wouldnt follow those OT quotes because the NT contradicts it.

[The Grey Blur]

Who gives a flying fuck at a rolling dougnut, organised religions are blood-sucking organisations aimed at blinding the working-class while encouraging holy wars


I just don't have the time to find the passage.....or a bible.
I believe he's using www.skepticsbibleannotated.com, the typical over-the-top online atheists' resource

And yeah I know I'm contradicting myself here just both of you piss me off

[LSD]

Don't you guys think that it's safer to believe in G'd rather then not to believe in him and suffer the consequences of that?

So far belief in "God" has been demonstrably worse than nonbelief in "Him"; so if we are to go by the "odds", it's obvious that society is better off with atheists than "faithful".

Besides, the critical flaw with the "Pascal" rationale is that the various religions contradict on how and whom one is expected to worship?

After all, since there is zero evidence in favour of any of the organized religions; there is no way to rationaly "choose between them". That means that even if one does adopt religion out of fear of posthumous "divine punishment", one is still statistically unlikely to have chosen the "correct" deity.

That is, even if the impossible were possible and "God" did exist, we'd have no way of knowing which religion "got it right" or even if any of them did at all.

Hell, for all we know, "God" actually hates Christians, Jews, and Muslims and actually rewards those who use their rational brains. Maybe "heaven" is for atheists and all the little obedient fundie drones are the ones who will "burn for eternity". :o

You see, once we head down into religion-land, any conclusion is possible; that's just what happens when we throw out reaon in favour of "faith: things stop making sense.

Much better to stick to materialist logic and leave the "God" bullshit in the dustbin of history where it belongs. :)

[violencia.Proletariat]

Wrong religion.

Ohh are you muslim? No worries I can't make your religion out for the bullshit it really is too ;)


And a Christian wouldnt follow those OT quotes because the NT contradicts it.

Thats irrelevant. The bible is a holy text and the word of god, if you were a real believer you'd follow it all.

[bezdomni]

Pascal's wager is shitty because it only weighs in atheism and theism...it doesn't consider that there are thousands of variations of theism that say "you will go to hell if..."

Being a theist is still a big gamble, and the odds are you're going to loose out.

[Publius]

Also, Pascal's Wager is gambling, and gambling as a sin, and since sin is Satan, all Pascal's Wager helps you find is Satan.

See you in hell.

[Orange Juche]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 04:06 PM
Don't you guys think that it's safer to believe in G'd rather then not to believe in him and suffer the consequences of that?
No. Thats paranoia.

If we thought of the consequences of every belief we hold being between eternal damnation and eternal salvation, we'd go fucking bonkers.

[apathy maybe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 01:34 PM
Also, Pascal's Wager is gambling, and gambling as a sin, and since sin is Satan, all Pascal's Wager helps you find is Satan.

See you in hell.
LOL :lol:

I love it!

Anyway. As has been said, there are lots of "gods". The best 'bet' to make is to be an atheist as most of them are jealous. So if you believe in the wrong one, you will get more punishment then not believing.

[overlord]

Don't you guys think that it's safer to believe in G'd rather then not to believe in him and suffer the consequences of that?


Which God? :rolleyes:

[Xvall]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 09:09 PM
Don't you understand odds and risks?
These odds and risks apply to everything? Why your god? Shouldn't you also believe in Zeus (I mean, you can't rule him out) so you don't get thunderbolts hurled at you? By your logic I need to believe in every possible god just to "play it safe", in which case my belief in other gods already warrents damnation in most of these situations. You lack of logic is utterly baffling.

[Hit The North]

Originally posted by Xvall+Jun 8 2006, 02:05 PM--> (Xvall @ Jun 8 2006, 02:05 PM)
[email protected] 7 2006, 09:09 PM
Don't you understand odds and risks?
These odds and risks apply to everything? Why your god? Shouldn't you also believe in Zeus (I mean, you can't rule him out) so you don't get thunderbolts hurled at you? By your logic I need to believe in every possible god just to "play it safe", in which case my belief in other gods already warrents damnation in most of these situations. You lack of logic is utterly baffling. [/b]
Well you could believe in a supernatural creator God and see all it's variations (Odin, Zeus, Yaweh, etc) as earlier or later attempts to name 'it'. So all the errors and contradictions of the various theisms are just humanity's imperfect attempts to 'know' a divine presence which transcends theological knowledge.

That's one which in which you can make sense of Pascal's wager (and insure yourself against error).

Of course, a God which was so unknowable would be unlikely to give a fuck about the belief or otherwise of human beings.

So Pascal's Wager is a waste of contemplation anyway.

[RebelOutcast]

I prefer the atheist's wager:

It states that if you were to analyse your options in regard to how to live your life, you would come out with the following possibilities:

* You may live a good life and believe in a god, and a benevolent god exists, in which case you go to heaven: your gain is infinite.
* You may live a good life without believing in a god, and a benevolent god exists, in which case you go to heaven: your gain is infinite.
* You may live a good life and believe in a god, but no benevolent god exists, in which case you leave a positive legacy to the world; your gain is finite.
* You may live a good life without believing in a god, and no benevolent god exists, in which case you leave a positive legacy to the world; your gain is finite.
* You may live an evil life and believe in a god, and a benevolent god exists, in which case you go to hell: your loss is infinite.
* You may live an evil life without believing in a god, and a benevolent god exists, in which case you go to hell: your loss is infinite.
* You may live an evil life and believe in a god, but no benevolent god exists, in which case you leave a negative legacy to the world; your loss is finite.
* You may live an evil life without believing in a god, and no benevolent god exists, in which case you leave a negative legacy to the world; your loss is finite.

The existance of god is a statistical irrelevance.
By leading a "good" life you still make the most gain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist%27s_Wager

[Intifada]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 08:06 PM
Don't you guys think that it's safer to believe in G'd rather then not to believe in him and suffer the consequences of that?
Why do Jews miss the "o" in God?

[Shredder]

Pascal's wager, besides being a comical simplification, is also completely opposite of true.

In reality, you only go to heaven if you reject God and everything supernatural or superstitious. If you believe in any of it, God sends you straight to hell for being a sucker.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 03:34 AM
Also, Pascal's Wager is gambling, and gambling as a sin, and since sin is Satan, all Pascal's Wager helps you find is Satan.

See you in hell.
:lol: Never thought of it that way.

[Trent Steele]

The way I see it:

- If I beleive in God, I have a chance of being right, and having a good afterlife.
- If I do not, I can live my life how I please (ie, full of sex and boozing), this way, I can be pretty much certain of a good life.

One approach gives uncertainty of a good (after)life, and other certainty of a good life.

I know which one I'll go for.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

I think the atheist wager is better.

On the one hand we can accept religion and hope it doesnt fuck up society too much.

Or we can move away from it, and have a society where we use reason and science to develop.

Its your choice, we've made ours.