The new SDS

[Rawthentic]

What do you guys think of the new SDS? I think that it has a very good mission statement, but I dont know what its REALLY about or if its worth it to join or not. Some feedback would be greatly appreciated. thanks comrades

[bezdomni]

I've been getting their e-mails for a while.

It seems to be much ado about nothing. In the last three days, the most interesting thing they've been talking about has been Marxist-Leninists in the SPUSA.

I'd support the organization making a comeback, but I'm not sure how possible that is.

For what it's worth, most of them don't seem willing to work with Marxist-Leninists of any variety.

[Nachie]

Seems an interesting group, they've definitely hit the ground running with some actions and in August they are heading up a march to counter the one organized by ANSWER and WCW in New York. Could be a test of their actual value to the movement.

My big criticisms of them are A) what happened to SDS in the past, and B) they're still students.

As opposed to the first SDS this one seems to have gotten much more of an anarchist bent but if it grows into a mass movement I don't know how it would avoid becoming openly reformist or suffering a repeat of history by splitting into various factions. Right now this hasn't happened but their politics are still too much of a clusterfuck and it'll be interesting to see how they cope with having to define them more rigorously in the future.

I think at this stage in the game it's important for people to start dipping their toes into SDS and seeing how things look. It's important though for us to maintain our independent political affiliations and perhaps just use SDS as a forum.

[bezdomni]

It's important though for us to maintain our independent political affiliations and perhaps just use SDS as a forum.
Yeah, I can see that. That&#39;s essentially what people are doing, from what I can tell. I haven&#39;t seen much if any actual organization discussion through their e-mails...of which I get around 8 per day. <_<


As opposed to the first SDS this one seems to have gotten much more of an anarchist bent but if it grows into a mass movement I don&#39;t know how it would avoid becoming openly reformist or suffering a repeat of history by splitting into various factions.
Their political tendency seems to be that of ultra-left communism and various flavors of reformism.

I haven&#39;t heard of many anarchists in their org, but I could be wrong.

I remember a lot of them were pissed that there were some Marxist-Leninists in the SPUSA (oh no&#33;). That was the topic of discussion a few days ago. :P


... their politics are still too much of a clusterfuck...
Beautifully chosen words. :P

[violencia.Proletariat]

The new SDS will operate under participatory principles. We have many anarchists in the organization and reformism is not a tactic the organization will promote.

We aren&#39;t operating under a constitution yet (explains the appearence of little organization), the convention is this August 4-7 in Chicago.

[WUOrevolt]

Im a member, and it seems to be going well. Many of the members are radical socialists or anarchists.

[FinnMacCool]

I&#39;m not a member but I partcipate with them a lot. They seem pretty cool to me. Very good politics and definatly not reformist at all. Well most of them aren&#39;t reformist anyways.

[Janus]

Sounds very interesting. Are they simply a campus organization &#39;cause I haven&#39;t heard of them in my area. I think that some mass appeal would be good but it shouldn&#39;t require us to sacrifice our principles at all.

[Rawthentic]

yes, the idea of a unified, nationwide SDS would be great and would show the power and fire of student radicalism. Im excited if the SDS say they are who they are. I guess the only thing we have left is to wait and see what comes of the national convention. Any SDSers out there: make me happy and lets unify for the cause&#33; :D

[WorkerBolshevik]

My big criticisms of them are A) what happened to SDS in the past, and B) they&#39;re still students.
Comrade, I think that your observation of the problems of student groups like SDS is very important to real communists. We must realize that no matter what happens, student radicals acting independent of the working class will always be but petty bourgeois radicals; revolutionary for the vanity of it and not out of any material neccesity. Often, the failure of student movements is blaimed on the student bureauracy which, in an effort to appear "respecitlbe", will negotiate and compromise with authorities. However, even freed from the bureaucracy, no student movement can make any real advances on a proletarian line.

An important recent example of the difference between student radicals and the working class has been demonstrated through the contrast of the recent Immigrants Rights protests in America and the student protests across France. Though it is undeniable that on average the French protestors were more radical, class concious, and politicaly developed than the American protesters, they suffered an inherent weakness purely because of the student character of the demonstrations. Though the Arab and African immigrants and minorities of France played a substantial role in the protests, their populations in France are not considerable enough to make a national impact on their own. Rather, they required the youth of France (and to a small degree the unions) to come to their support. But in doing so, the character of the movement was changed from proletarian to petty bourgeois, resulting in the compromising their demands.
In America, on the otherhand, the majority of protestors wre much less politically extreme, reflecting the nature of American society at this time as a whole. However, thanks to the comparitivly immense power of American immigrant and minority workers, the recent immigrants rights protests did not require the aid of students to have an impact. This allowed the demonstrations to retain a working class character and avoided the compromise of their demands (relativly little was accomplish, but this is a reflection of the backward political developement of the workers at this time, not petty-bourgeois sellouts).

What does all of this mean? Though we must, of course, welcome the aid of student radicals, it is important not to rely on them to make revolutionary advances for us. It was precisely the student nature (as opposed to proletarian) of the civil rights and anti-war movements in the 60s and 70s which limited their effectiveness. In the coming year, as profit rates are falling, the working class is being attacked with renewed vengeance, and the global economy is on the brink of the biggest depression the world will ever see, it is important to utilize the rising conciousness and channel it into proletarian movements.

[Rawthentic]

Well, yes, I understand that if the student radicals act independent of the working class and for the vanity of revolution as you correctly said, then it is a sham and its nature is turned to petty-bourgeios. But in the beginning, or on the eve, or during, student radicals can add fire and power to the movement because it greatly increases the scope of revolution from an economic need on the part of the working class to an idealistic thing on the part of the students. But yeah, idealism without the working class aint shit, I agree

[which doctor]

I&#39;m in the process of becoming a member.

[Rawthentic]

How are you in the process of becoming a member? Are you gonna start your own branch, do you live in area that the SDS operates in, or what ? I woud like to know as I am a potential member of the SDS. thanks comrade

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 05:44 PM
How are you in the process of becoming a member? Are you gonna start your own branch, do you live in area that the SDS operates in, or what ? I woud like to know as I am a potential member of the SDS. thanks comrade
It&#39;s really easy to join. Just fill out the membership application online. I filled out the application, I&#39;m just waiting to hear back from them.

I&#39;m probaly not going to start my own branch as I live in a rural area where there would be little interest in it. The SDS pretty much can operate all over the place, but they are mainly concentrated in the states. I will probaly just affialiate myself with the general Chicago branch, even if they are a bit of a drive.

I say, go ahead and join&#33; You can always quit if you don&#39;t like it for any reason.

[violencia.Proletariat]

It&#39;s really easy to join. Just fill out the membership application online. I filled out the application, I&#39;m just waiting to hear back from them.

You probably won&#39;t hear back from them. Email Pat Korte or Tom Good to make sure your on the registry. Ask them for the address to get a membership card too if you want one.

[Nachie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 03:17 AM
get a membership card too if you want one.
Is that jawn laminated?

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Is this purely an american organisation or do they exist in other countries?

Are there any in the UK for example?

[guerillablack]

Originally posted by Nachie+Jun 8 2006, 10:19 PM--> (Nachie @ Jun 8 2006, 10:19 PM)
[email protected] 9 2006, 03:17 AM
get a membership card too if you want one.
Is that jawn laminated? [/b]
you from philly or south jersey?

[Johnny Anarcho]

I applied to join through their website, Dr. King liked them and thats good enough for me.

[Johnny Anarcho]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 10:38 PM
Im a member, and it seems to be going well. Many of the members are radical socialists or anarchists.
What&#39;s their stance on Black Nationalism?

[Nachie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 08:23 AM
you from philly or south jersey?
haha that&#39;s awesome

I&#39;m not from either of those places but I&#39;ve been saying jawn for a while and the organization I&#39;m in just got together a chapter in Philly, so I went up there for a few days to meet them all and started saying it a lot afterwards hehe.

You&#39;ll also catch me using Venezuelan slang sometimes, but that vaina usually goes way over people&#39;s heads and nobody notices it. :lol:

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 06:20 AM
Is this purely an american organisation or do they exist in other countries?

Are there any in the UK for example?
It&#39;s US only. If i was a university student in UK, I would try and join up with the Alliance for Workers liberty campaign in the NUS which is arguing a marxist line in reguards to education policy.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 02:20 AM
Is this purely an american organisation or do they exist in other countries?

Are there any in the UK for example?
No but that doesnt mean you can&#39;t start one in the UK. Email one of the Tom Good about it.

[emma_goldman]

I&#39;m skeptical of, like Nachie said, the SDS of the past. Rich college kids who could avoid the draft while the middle & lower classes (predominantly lower) had to fight in the Vietnam War. A new organization I think it would be better to found to cut ties with their past. I don&#39;t see what them being students has to do with it. That&#39;s the point. :P Maybe change "democratic" society too. Too many bad connotations.

[Rawthentic]

As am I comrade, but the SDS is looking at their past with a critical lense and changing what went wrong, such as the factionalism and the extremism
(ie: the Weathermen). And changing the word "democratic" would defeat the purpose, since they are about participatory democracy and work for the vision of a truly democratic society, which is not possible under capitalism of course.