"Support our trooops" offensive to military!

[LSD]

Originally posted by The Vancouver Sun
OTTAWA -- A Toronto organization has been ordered by the military to remove a billboard that urges Canadians to "Support our troops" because it breaks the law and could interfere with a Canadian Forces' fundraising campaign, CanWest News Service has learned.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...15-4c1aac70f7d2 (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=df3d3765-dba1-45a7-9215-4c1aac70f7d2)

It seems that the Candian Forces do not permit any private statments to be advertised "in their name". Accordingly, subject to section 291 of the National Defense Act, personal "support our troops" banners/ribbons/leaflets/etc... are illegal in Canada.

Now, if only someone would pass similar legislation in the US! :D

[violencia.Proletariat]

I'd hope so. Screw the troops, they kill people.

[bezdomni]

I'll support the troops when they support the revolution.

[Pawn Power]

That is an intersting law. Shur would make life less obnoxious.
Is it enforced regularly is the question?

[Janus]

Now, if only someone would pass similar legislation in the US!
I agree. Those ribbons were originally for breast cancer victims.


I'll support the troops when they support the revolution.
I'll support the troops when they join the revolution (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=42043) :D

[killfascists]

I believe that in the U.S. we have so much "Support Our Troops" for two reasons:

1. So companies that manufacture stickers and flags and banners can make quite a profit off of the War in Iraq

and

2. During Vietnam, protesters used to spit on the troops as they got off planes. That really damages troop morale and the morale of the American public, thus losing the war. The governement doesn't want that to happen again, so they enforce this patriotic propaganda of "supporting the troops".

In my opinion, supporting the troops means wanting them to come home, instead being of out there killing people.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 08:03 PM


In my opinion, supporting the troops means wanting them to come home, instead being of out there killing people.
Theres more to it than that. For the liberals who shout the slogan it's almost like a faint cry that the military's purpose isn't to enforce the capitalist class's economic conquest. I don't really give a shit about the welfare of non-draftee troops, I just don't want them killing people.

If it were "support our troops, dump them in the sea", I'd be fine with that.

[Gura]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 12:03 AM
2. During Vietnam, protesters used to spit on the troops as they got off planes. That really damages troop morale and the morale of the American public, thus losing the war. The governement doesn't want that to happen again, so they enforce this patriotic propaganda of "supporting the troops".
Actually, the government would love it if returnign troops were spit on returning. It would give the politicians a chance to take a stronger position against a leftist enemy and to rally the population around illegal wiretaps, roundups, and other activities to counteract the left wing.

In addition, although troops were spat on returnign from Vietnam, it is very probable that this was part as a COINTELPRO operation to discredit the anti-war movement using agents provocateur sewn within the crowd.

[Commie Rat]

I'll support our troops, when they join the revolution!

[Zero]

When I'm in a bar loaded to the brim with drunkards, all with various states of brain-withdrawal, all with various bottles of .6 or .7 Whiskey... I support the troops. However when I'm not in that family friendly establishment I don't.

[Severian]

"Support the troops" is a demagogic code-phrase for "support the war". It really has nothing to do with the individuals in the military. Heck, a fair number of the troops apparently don't "support the troops."

(At least according to the McLaughlin Group guy, quoting some poll of U.S. soldiers, apparently a quarter favor immediate withdrawal from Iraq.)

(Oh, and there's no documented case of antiwar protestors spitting on war veterans. It's probably an urban legend. It's even on snopes.com, IIRC.)

About the law: I hope LSD was being ironic in hoping for similar legislation in the U.S.

It's profoundly shortsighted to support repressive legislation in which the capitalist state gets to decide who can say or publish what.

[bezdomni]

"Support the troops" is a demagogic code-phrase for "support the war".

Have you ever read that bit by Chomsky about this? I think it was in "Media Control and the Public Mind" or something like that. Very classy.

[rebelworker]

waaay to much troop haiting goin on on this site.

Of course we are againts the war, but there are lots of reasons people join the army in the first place. Once people are stuck in a war they are going to kill or be killed, this is clear, I would do it and you probably would too. There are a good chunk of the soldiers who are totaly pro war psycopaths, we are against them, but to put all troops in the same boat feeds into the patriotic image of a united patriotic army.

Fuck that, llots of peole are in the army because they are poor, period.
I have a friend who was offered jail time or the army, he picked thr army.
The army is also one of the few ways for people to get out of a gang once they are in.

Lots of people were tricked into joining to go to school thinking they would never end up in combat, a few years later there you go.

These are people we need to be reaching out to.

Support the troops, make sure they get home safe and sound so they can fight the real enemy. No revolution has ever happened without support from large layers of the armed forces. These people come from our communities, even the ones who think a bunch of fucked up shit right now are victims of state manipulation. We need to win them back to our class.

Fuck spiting in their faces, shae their hands and talk to them about the problems they face, and are probably very aware of. Most of them just want to get home in one peice.

These people are under constant state brainwashing, still 25% support immediate withdrawl, this is a good sign.

Dont forget who the real enemy is, lets not fight amongst ourselves

[rebelworker]

Heres a good article about the war written by a comrade whos sister is in Iraq.

Blood Money: Human Capital (http://nefac.net/node/1173)

[violencia.Proletariat]

Of course we are againts the war, but there are lots of reasons people join the army in the first place. Once people are stuck in a war they are going to kill or be killed, this is clear, I would do it and you probably would too.

No I wouldn't do it, because I would never join the imperialist army.


Fuck that, llots of peole are in the army because they are poor, period.
I have a friend who was offered jail time or the army, he picked thr army.
The army is also one of the few ways for people to get out of a gang once they are in.

I really don't see these as excuses. Being poor sucks, but are you willing to KILL anyone and everyone you are told to just to have a few meals (which you can easily steal anyways). I mean, if your in combat you mine as well be homeless because it's not like your going to a nice warm bed each night.


These are people we need to be reaching out to.

Before they join yes. The war veterans can organize their own anti-war organizations and once troops are activley resisting be sent to fight then I will support them.

If I'm not mistaken the US armed forces can't meet their quotas anymore anyways.


No revolution has ever happened without support from large layers of the armed forces.

When these revolutions come to mind, they were all draftee armies. That's a different story.


even the ones who think a bunch of fucked up shit right now are victims of state manipulation. We need to win them back to our class.

Mostly impossible if it's not a draftee army. A lot of those kids are gung ho America and our phamplets aren't going to change their mind. Events will happen in which they shall do this on their own.

I really would have no interest in having the troops involved in Haditha on my side, even if they were once a part of my class. ;)


Most of them just want to get home in one peice.

Just like those Iraqi's, which they kill without question.


These people are under constant state brainwashing, still 25% support immediate withdrawl, this is a good sign.

Yeah it's a good sign. But personally, I wouldn't support them until they started taking direct action to sabotage/stop the war.


Dont forget who the real enemy is, lets not fight amongst ourselves

Someone who fights for the enemy who was once a part of our class kind of fits the deffinition of traitor. While I'm sure many would come back during the ideal situations, some can't be helped.

[WorkerBolshevik]

Support the troops, make sure they get home safe and sound so they can fight the real enemy.

Though I support part of what you are saying, I think that your above claim is very dangerous. You are right in that we should not be activly calling for the deaths of individual troops. The troops themselves are just the pawns of imperialism, not the problem. But when you say that me must make sure that they get home safe, you are calling for their military victory. By doing so, you are supporting, though unconciously, imperialism in war and calling for the defeat of opressed nations. As socialists, we must always militarily support the opressed against the opresser, or in the case of an interimperialist war, call for mutual defeat. It is important at the same time that socialists organize within the military, that we do not dodge the draft but rather use it (when it next arises) as an opportunity to influence soliders so that they may become revolutionaries and one day aid the workers and peasants in social revolution.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 02:42 PM

"Support the troops" is a demagogic code-phrase for "support the war".

Have you ever read that bit by Chomsky about this? I think it was in "Media Control and the Public Mind" or something like that. Very classy.

I think it's MEDIA CONTROL; The Spectacular Achievements of Propaganda. It's the book where he talks about Wilson (?) and the First World War right? "Eating Belgian babies" and all that.

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 06:58 PM

Now, if only someone would pass similar legislation in the US!
I agree. Those ribbons were originally for breast cancer victims.


I'll support the troops when they support the revolution.
I'll support the troops when they join the revolution (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=42043) :D
"I'll Support the Troops When They Join the Revolution" oval sticker (http://www.cafepress.com/comleague.61168915)
"I'll Support the Troops When They Join the Revolution" square sticker (http://www.cafepress.com/comleague.61168916)

Just thought comrades might be interested.

Miles

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Look call me crazy but I think communists should be strongly against the war, but not against the troops because it is highly offensive and disrepectful. I don&#39;t agree with what they&#39;re doing but I won&#39;t slam them in person because that&#39;s just low <_<

[TC]

lol but how do they know that "support our troops" refers to the canadian military...if i every had a "support our troops" sign it would be refering to supporting our anti-imperialist guerrilla troops :-D

[violencia.Proletariat]

but not against the troops because it is highly offensive and disrepectful

Since when have communists cared about whats offensive and disrepectful to imerpailists, fuck them.


I don&#39;t agree with what they&#39;re doing but I won&#39;t slam them in person because that&#39;s just low

Shooting innocent children, women, and men is low.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 02:52 PM
waaay to much troop haiting goin on on this site.

Of course we are againts the war, but there are lots of reasons people join the army in the first place. Once people are stuck in a war they are going to kill or be killed, this is clear, I would do it and you probably would too. There are a good chunk of the soldiers who are totaly pro war psycopaths, we are against them, but to put all troops in the same boat feeds into the patriotic image of a united patriotic army.

Fuck that, llots of peole are in the army because they are poor, period.
I have a friend who was offered jail time or the army, he picked thr army.
The army is also one of the few ways for people to get out of a gang once they are in.

Lots of people were tricked into joining to go to school thinking they would never end up in combat, a few years later there you go.

These are people we need to be reaching out to.

Support the troops, make sure they get home safe and sound so they can fight the real enemy. No revolution has ever happened without support from large layers of the armed forces. These people come from our communities, even the ones who think a bunch of fucked up shit right now are victims of state manipulation. We need to win them back to our class.

Fuck spiting in their faces, shae their hands and talk to them about the problems they face, and are probably very aware of. Most of them just want to get home in one peice.

These people are under constant state brainwashing, still 25% support immediate withdrawl, this is a good sign.

Dont forget who the real enemy is, lets not fight amongst ourselves
You might feel differently if these scum were taking apart your house, interning your neighbours and shooting your friends.

There&#39;s a word for people who are poor and do the bosses&#39; dirtywork against other poor people. They&#39;re called scabs.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Shooting innocent children, women, and men is low.

That&#39;s only like 10 soldiers out of 150,000. It&#39;s not the troops we should be fighting it&#39;s the war

[Body Count]

Fuck the troops.

I hope none come home.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 11:52 PM

Shooting innocent children, women, and men is low.

That&#39;s only like 10 soldiers out of 150,000. It&#39;s not the troops we should be fighting it&#39;s the war
Because 10 people are responsible for 200,000+ deaths :rolleyes:

[drain.you]

Shooting innocent children, women, and men is low.


That&#39;s only like 10 soldiers out of 150,000. It&#39;s not the troops we should be fighting it&#39;s the war

You been sipping some &#39;happy cappie&#39; juice or something? Majority of soldiers everywhere are fucked-up people who dropped out of education and would be on your streets beating up Latinos and blacks if they weren&#39;t in Iraq.
Dont for a second think that its a minority of troops that abuse their power and are extremely racist about it.

[JimmyC]

In the U.S. private citizens can pay for such private statements&#33; Fucken A&#33; Support the troops.

However, the government is not allowed to make an official poster with such a viewpoint.

[Alexandria]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 07:03 PM


and



In my opinion, supporting the troops means wanting them to come home, instead being of out there killing people.


I believe that in the U.S. we have so much "Support Our Troops" for two reasons:

1. So companies that manufacture stickers and flags and banners can make quite a profit off of the War in Iraq


That&#39;s pocket change money, and a stretch. If they were not printing support our troop buttons, banners and flags, they would be selling NASCAR merchendise or something.


During Vietnam, protesters used to spit on the troops as they got off planes. That really damages troop morale and the morale of the American public, thus losing the war. The governement doesn&#39;t want that to happen again, so they enforce this patriotic propaganda of "supporting the troops".

I beleive this is very true. The NeoConservatives, and their trailer trash dwelling supporters, the NeoHicks are trying to bring back Manifest Destiny - that Americans are gawd&#39;s choosen people that will lead the world into a new golden(shower) age of crapitalism while spreading the world of Jaysus to the "heathens".

A second withdraw in disgrace within a generation will sour the american sheeple to the neocon&#39;s delusions of grandure and will greatly harm the imiltiary-industrial complex.

[Schleppy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 10:02 PM
[QUOTE=The Vancouver Sun]Accordingly, subject to section 291 of the National Defense Act, personal "support our troops" banners/ribbons/leaflets/etc... are illegal in Canada.

Now, if only someone would pass similar legislation in the US&#33; :D
Once again, I feel the need to point out Evelyn Beatrice Hall&#39;s summation of Voltaire&#39;s writings: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Censorship in any form is a crime against humanity, and even when it might "better society," one must never resort to it.

[violencia.Proletariat]

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Hmmm, I don&#39;t think you&#39;d find many people here willing to die to defend the right of free speech for fascists and reactionaries.


Censorship in any form is a crime against humanity

Why? Letting fascists freely organize and gain power, thats a crime against humanity because they will actually kill us. If they can&#39;t organize publicly without getting the shit beat out of them, then thats GOOD for humanity. ;)

[Seven Stars]

Many of the troops are just working class kids who have no other options so they join the military. They aren&#39;t there because they support Bush or the war but because they were forced to go there.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 07:54 PM
Many of the troops are just working class kids who have no other options so they join the military. They aren&#39;t there because they support Bush or the war but because they were forced to go there.
There is no draft going on. They aren&#39;t forced to go to the military, and their are other options than joining an imperialist mercenary force.

[ahab]

Originally posted by violencia.Proletariat+Jun 9 2006, 04:21 AM--> (violencia.Proletariat @ Jun 9 2006, 04:21 AM)
[email protected] 8 2006, 11:52 PM

Shooting innocent children, women, and men is low.

That&#39;s only like 10 soldiers out of 150,000. It&#39;s not the troops we should be fighting it&#39;s the war
Because 10 people are responsible for 200,000+ deaths :rolleyes: [/b]
first of the bombs take more lives than the troops and second it is more fighting for survival over there. I DO NOT support the war in Iraq, but I have nothing against the troops there. They are doing what they are told and what THEY believe to be right, and actually not a lotof them even believe it to be right but they wont say shit cuz military jail is not like regular jail lol, also somebody in here quoted somebody else saying that those troops just want to come home safe and they said that so do the Iraqi&#39;s they are killing without question. This is an ignorant statement becuz the troops dont just go house to house shooting people, the geneva convention laws STATE that you cannot fire until fired upon, the troops aren&#39;t these mindless robots, well not all of them at least, that just kill everything that moves. Even a lot of those Iraqi&#39;s are capturing INNOCENT reporters, aide workers and troops and cutting their heads off and sending the tapes to the news crews. Now they are just doing what they believe to be right, but you can see how some troops take offense to this, I myself, while having pity for those people, have no remorse because they shouldn&#39;t be there in the first place. But the hating of the troops is wrong, it&#39;s bush and his administration who sent them there, also it was discussed that you would support the troops when they joined the revolution, well if a revolution here in the states was ever to happen they probably would, but since there is no revolution how do we kno they wouldnt?

[Seven Stars]

Originally posted by violencia.Proletariat+Jun 11 2006, 12:44 AM--> (violencia.Proletariat @ Jun 11 2006, 12:44 AM)
[email protected] 10 2006, 07:54 PM
Many of the troops are just working class kids who have no other options so they join the military. They aren&#39;t there because they support Bush or the war but because they were forced to go there.
There is no draft going on. They aren&#39;t forced to go to the military, and their are other options than joining an imperialist mercenary force. [/b]
Some of them see no other option. Recruiters go into poor communities looking for recruits, some are immigrants who are tricked into joining thinking thwy will get citizenship. They didn&#39;t join to go murder inocent civilians.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Recruiters go into poor communities looking for recruits

Which isn&#39;t working. Recruiters can&#39;t meet their goals anymore because people are wise about what happens when they send you to Iraq.


some are immigrants who are tricked into joining thinking thwy will get citizenship

I&#39;ve never heard of this, have a link or something?


They didn&#39;t join to go murder inocent civilians.

So that makes it ok when they do? Everyone knows what a soldier does, they kill people. The people willing to volunteer for the imperialist US army think this is ok.

[Seven Stars]

Which isn&#39;t working. Recruiters can&#39;t meet their goals anymore because people are wise about what happens when they send you to Iraq.

Now it may not be working, but that wasn&#39;t true at the beginning of the war and isn&#39;t the case for those who are there now.


I&#39;ve never heard of this, have a link or something?

No, it&#39;s what I have been told by people, I&#39;ll have a look and see if there is anything online about it.

You people say you are for the working class, but what many of you have said on this thread is very offensive to working class people. Saying that you hope the troops never come home?? You are talking about our friends and our families. It just goes to show how out of touch with the working class most people on the &#39;left&#39; are. I put that in quotes because I know many people on here are just middle class wankers with too much time on their hands and who need to get out more, instead of reading about Stalin would have thought of french toast. You will go on and on about Revolution on an internet site but won&#39;t do anything in the real world. I also know there those on here who work hard, and put their money where their mouth is, what I just said doesn&#39;t apply to you so please do not take offence.

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by fysh117

first of the bombs take more lives than the troops
What bombs? If you mean bombings by the insurgency, that&#39;s absolute rubbish. Conservative, dodgy estimates based on news reports collated by the BBC place the numbers of civilian dead from DIRECT attack by coalition forces at around 40 000. That doesn&#39;t include those killed by destroyed infrastructure, air raids or starvation. Lancet, the medical journal, placed those deaths at 100 000 in 2004&#33;


and second it is more fighting for survival over there.
Sometimes it is, but since when is bombing the shit out of urban areas about survival? Or shooting into civilian cars at roadblocks. What about ambulances? Here&#39;s a better survival tactic- don&#39;t join the military&#33;


They are doing what they are told
That&#39;s never a defence. It does mean that people higher up are culpable for crimes, but we knew that anyway.


and what THEY believe to be right, and actually not a lotof them even believe it to be right but they wont say shit cuz military jail is not like regular jail lol,
Then don&#39;t join in the first place?


also somebody in here quoted somebody else saying that those troops just want to come home safe and they said that so do the Iraqi&#39;s they are killing without question. This is an ignorant statement becuz the troops dont just go house to house shooting people, the geneva convention laws STATE that you cannot fire until fired upon, the troops aren&#39;t these mindless robots, well not all of them at least, that just kill everything that moves.
Since when do US troops adhere to the Geneva Convention?
They ARE shooting innocent people. They ARE engaging in massacres for "revenge." If a car moves at a roadblock, they fucking shoot into it&#33;


Even a lot of those Iraqi&#39;s are capturing INNOCENT reporters, aide workers and troops and cutting their heads off and sending the tapes to the news crews. Now they are just doing what they believe to be right, but you can see how some troops take offense to this,
Does this excuse their heinous actions against completely uninvolved Iraqis?
Nesides, I don&#39;t consider contractors and such innocent. They&#39;re there to profit off a war.


also it was discussed that you would support the troops when they joined the revolution, well if a revolution here in the states was ever to happen they probably would, but since there is no revolution how do we kno they wouldnt?
Pretty doubtful. Are you aware of the kind of propaganda that goes on in the military, and convinces people to join? Watch the doco "Gunner Palace" for a little taste.

[YSR]

There are plenty of other options for working class people besides joining the military. Come on, that&#39;s just stupid to say, "no other options". There&#39;s always other options.

That being said, I don&#39;t hate the troops in Iraq and other places. I feel bad for them and I hope that they realize what they did was a mistake, they don&#39;t hurt too many people, and they don&#39;t re-enlist. And maybe mutiny in the meantime.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by irish republican
Some of them see no other option. Recruiters go into poor communities looking for recruits, some are immigrants who are tricked into joining thinking thwy will get citizenship. They didn&#39;t join to go murder inocent civilians.



All we have to do is whack a few kids in a third world nation and you will give us citizenship? What a fucking bargain&#33;

If you allow me to not have to memorize all the presidents, I&#39;ll even throw in a couple grandmothers and babies for you.