Pope Pius XII

[AnarchoCommieAviator]

I am doing a research paper on Pope Pius XII (the pope during the second world war) and would like to hear some of your opinions about him. I have heard that he has been accused of being an anti semite and witheld information about the holocaust. Is this true and could you please lead me to some good sources regarding this? From what little i have read, i have found that he actually helped the jews, however most of the sources are biased and from catholic organizations.

[Majkrazam]

I would think that he would have probably been in fear of the goverment at the time, to actually do or say anything.

[Goatse]

i have found that he actually helped the jews, however most of the sources are biased and from catholic organizations.

Help the Jews? The Bible specifically tells you to kill people of other faiths! :o

[AnarchoCommieAviator]

I would think that he would have probably been in fear of the goverment at the time, to actually do or say anything.


But he was the pope, he could have at least spoken out against the atrocities.


Help the Jews? The Bible specifically tells you to kill people of other faiths!

I meant as opposed to being an anti semite, like most catholics were at the time.

[RedAnarchist]

He was the Pope, so wouldn't have exactly been the voice of reason and humanity, would he?

[AnarchoCommieAviator]

This is true, but thats pretty much a given. Other then the fact that he was a pope, what did he do that made some people accuse him of being "hitler's pope"? Because iv read nothing but stuff about him helping the jews, not turning away from them.

[bezdomni]

The question is "Pope Pius XII, evil or not?". Thankfully, I have a formula to determine if a pope is evil or not.

If name contains:
The word "pope", then give 5 points
Any roman numerals, then give 10 points
The word Pius, then give 10 points

If the pope in question was ever a member of the German National Socialist Party, then add a further 20 points.

If total adds up to more than five points, then the pope in question is evil.

Yep!

[AnarchoCommieAviator]

:D Ok, i get the point, but could anyone explain WHY? I havnt done a lot of research on him, but for what i have done, its only been stupid articles from catholic organizations claiming all the bad stuff about him are horrible lies and instead refer to himi as the popoe who saved the jews from the nazis

[bezdomni]

Well...

Did he physically go in and liberate death camps? Did he swing down from his pope-copter (I'm sure he has one) and rescue the prisoners in Aushwitz one by one?

Oh wait...the Soviet Union did that. I guess it was actually Stalin who saved the jews from the nazis!

The weird thing about the holocaust is that everybody wants to take credit for ending it. The Americans, the Soviets, the Catholics....when really no one person or organization did enough to single-handedly end the holocaust.

Basically, I see no more reason to believe that the Pope ended the holocaust than I do Stalin ended the holocaust.

[ComradeOm]

Hmm there was an interesting article in the paper a few weeks ago on "Hitler's Pope". I can't remember the details though. I do know that Pius is on the way to sainthood.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII#The_Holocaust

[Hit The North]

To be honest you couldn't go to a swish party of European power brokers and not find an anti-semite. You could throw a glass blindly over your shoulder and be guaranteed of htting an anti-semite on the head. Churchill was a rabid anti-semite.

Pope whatsisname signed a treaty with Nazi Germany before the war. To be fair, he was far from alone in sucking up to Hitler. Like much of the ruling class, he saw nazism as the best protection from the Godless Bolshevik hordes to the East.

Also, as one of the most loony and doctrinnaire Popes of the 20th Century he did hold the Jews responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus. So he probably saw the holocaust as "God's work".

[Enragé]

The catholic church actively encouraged, and is probably the source of, anti-semitism in Europe. This continued up untill the end of WW2 at least.

[chaval]

i think it was in holland, some bishop spoke out against the nazis sending people to the camps and so the germans sent like 100 thousand catholics as well just to shut him up.
the pope was definately in a very difficult position, speaking out could lead to the death of thousands of innocent catholics

many clergy members did protest and were also sent to camps. i.e. dachau had a massive section of its camp reserved for clergy members.
also many jewish kids were hidden in catholic schools and prominent jews were hidden in the vatican

[Enragé]

true, the clergy often did resist, but the leadership didnt.

but i doubt it was over here (i live in holland) 'cause the biggest thing that happened here was a raid on a village named Putten, about 200 died or something

[redstar2000]

There's little question that Pius XII was involved with fascism up to his eyebrows.

Hitler's pope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler's_Pope)

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