Anti-Nationalism = Anti-World cup?

[Noah]

Hey guys,

I've read various long threads and articles on nationalism but I find the best way to keep on learning and progress my own ideas is by keep a constant flow of questions within my noggin..

So, many fellow communists and lefties oppose nationalism because it creates divide and this would be 'counter-progressive' because communism strives towards workers unity, worldwide.

So...let's look at the World Cup usually, people support the country they're born, living in or live very close to.

Is the nationalism generated by the world cup frowned upon by fellow lefties? Do you think that nationalism can also bring countries together, for example in the World Cup people are very respectful to their opponents, usually.

My opinion is that, as long as countries exist people will find a reason to be proud of their country unless someone is able to make the whole world very very similar. The reason for this is because people want an identity.

I don't see a problem with being nationalistic at certain times of the year or even rarer occassions. But if I were to go out everyday and see England flags planted everywhere all the time, i'd feel alienated (being Iraqi).

What do you think?

[Orange Juche]

Personally, I don't see a problem with supporting a specific country.

It isn't a government organization. It is just a group of soccer players from the same area... they represent the people and culture of that area. It seems to me to have less to do with the nationality, and more to do with the fun and goodwill of the sport.

[Leo]

There had never been a world cup that I supported my own country and I don't think national pride is acceptable even in the world cup. Football is a game, it is amazing and beautiful but its just a game, and I know people are capable of killing each other over these games. Football is a great opportinity to overcome nationalism, this is an ancient tradition, dating back to the Olympics in Ancient Greece. Even if you support one team 'just mildly', it would kill the enjoyment you would get from the game.

Here are some sites about football and racism:

http://www.farenet.org/

http://www.furd.org/


My opinion is that, as long as countries exist people will find a reason to be proud of their country unless someone is able to make the whole world very very similar. The reason for this is because people want an identity.

An 'identity' is not the same thing with, and does not cause 'national pride'. Being proud of nationality is plain idiocy, it is something you are born with, not an achievement to be proud of. Ethnical identity is one of the factors that make up one's personality and one's everyday life, individuals should be at peace with their ethnical background, but it is nothing to be proud of.

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Most football fans are not hooligans or ultra patriots or BNP members.

They just enjoy the sport and its the biggest event in football.

People can and do differentiate between real life and sport. We know that racism is bad, some realise that patriotism is stupid, but they are not showing national support for the country but for their team.

And also, aside from the small minority of hooligans, its good for workers of different nationalities to travel and see how each other lives. We need an intelligent class, not a insulated one.

Football is fine so long as there is not racism.

Communists really need to get into sport circles, else we are never going to penetrate the working class and mobilise them.

[Iroquois Xavier]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 09:11 AM
Most football fans are not hooligans or ultra patriots or BNP members.

They just enjoy the sport and its the biggest event in football.

People can and do differentiate between real life and sport. We know that racism is bad, some realise that patriotism is stupid, but they are not showing national support for the country but for their team.

And also, aside from the small minority of hooligans, its good for workers of different nationalities to travel and see how each other lives. We need an intelligent class, not a insulated one.

Football is fine so long as there is not racism.

Communists really need to get into sport circles, else we are never going to penetrate the working class and mobilise them.
Its True.

The great thing about football is the way it unites people for one common goal.

This is just like how revolutions occur, it is a thing of beauty to see. :)

[RedAnarchist]

The World Cup is a wonderful thing. It has players from all over the world coming to one area to show off their skills. Yes, there is nationalism, but many people are passionate about football and the world cup gives them a chance to be amongst people from all over the world and see football from places they may not normally see footballers from.

[Janus]

Sports are divisive in general. It's not just the World Cup, this division fueld nationalism because the teams are from different countries.

Yes, people will always look for an identity but there is no reason to look for it in your nationality. Nations are simply just states with arbitrary lines for borders and there are further divisions within a certain nation.

For example, the Uighurs of China would definitely feel no similarities between themselves and the Hans just like some workers believe that there are more bonds between them with a worker from a different country rather than a bourgeois from his/her own country.

We can enjoy sports within feeling these nationalist or regional divides.

[Enragé]

sports unite, if in a decent atmosphere. As long as its about the enjoyment of the sport in question, about having a good time, then it always unites regardless of the outcome. If however it becomes a "life and death" issue then it divides...because it all of a sudden becomes too competitive for it to be fun; this is what often happens at things such as the world cup.

[Body Count]

Truthfully, I see two different forms of nationalism.

Another topic on this board deals with Black Nationalism, and as you can see, I generally support the oppressed trying to separate from there oppressors. Black nationalism during the sixties (And possibly now), Vietamese nationalism during the Vietnam war, and French Nationalism during the French revolution, are all progressive things to me. (Even then, this nationalism should never manifest itself on an individual level....)

The kind of nationalism that this topic is implying, is what I tend to just call chauvinism. To be frank, I tend to hold this kind of nationalism in the same light of racism. Its more about "pride" in "our people" then it is about just supporting the boys you know and have seen play.

Its one of the reasons I tend to stay away from international sports and such a bit.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

I think the world cup unifies people and countries. Plus its fun to watch and is just a game.