REMEMBERING THE HOLOCAUST

[Blasphemy]

Today, we are remembering the millions of innocent people slaughtered by the evil forces of Nazi Germany. Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, handicaps and others, who have been persecuted, jailed, tortured, and systematically destroyed by the evil fascist regime in Germany. This year, and on this very day, we are also mentioning the 40th anniversary of the Jewish uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto, where the jailed Jews grabbed their weapons and tried to liberate themselves from the Nazi aggressors. We remember how the world stood by, watched, and did not lift a finger until hundreds of thousands have already been killed. The memory of the Holocaust will never be forgotten, and we will always remember those thousands of nameless, faceless victims who died in the ghettos and in the death camps.

May we have PEACE.

[Dirty Commie]

Damn nazis and their racism. Visit the Holocaust museum, I think every state in the u.s. has one. Florida's is in downtown st. pete on like 3rd ave.(or there abouts)

[Donut Master]

I didn't even know today was a holocaust commemoration date.

[Zombie]

Neither did I. You learn something new every day :)

[Blasphemy]

Only in Israel it was the commemoration day. Israel mentions this day on the day the Warsaw uprising began, while every other country in the world mentions it on the day the Allies opened war, or something like that. I think that this date, the date of the uprising, is much more symbolic and much more meaningful.

[Conghaileach]

I have a calendar that says Holocaust Rememberance Day is the 27th of January.

[Comrade Daniel]

I saw something about Eichman (spelling) on our state channel he was really sick I'm glad he was hung, I wish every Nazi to have the same destiny

[El Barbudo]

you cant wish bad luck to someone, they are humans like us. Forgot about humanism?

[Zombie]

death to the Nazis, and death to american sponsored terrorism.

"you cant wish bad luck to someone, they are humans like us. Forgot about humanism?"

would be saying that had you lived under Nazi occupation?
or better yet, please go say that to a Palestinian kid who just saw his family murdered in front of his own eyes by an Israeli soldier.
or to an Israeli mom whose child got killed by a suicide bomber. blah, you get my point.

[Beccie]

they are humans like us

Imagine how wonderful this world would be if everyone held this view. Unfortunately this is not the case…. *sigh* :(

The world will never forget the Holocaust. Too bad we cannot say the same about the Armenian genocide.


(Edited by Commie01 at 5:38 am on May 2, 2003)

[damn the capitalism]

DAMN THE NAZIZ AND DAMN THE RACIST HITLER,!
BUT THE FACT THAT U FORGOT A VERY IMPORTANT THING :
U R SHOWING MERCY FOR THE VICTIMS OF THE HOLOCAUST ,AND I THINK U R RIGHT, BUT U GUYS I THINK THAT U MUST SHOW MUCH MERCY FOR WHAT IS HAPENNING NOW IN PALESTINE AND FOR THE CHILDREN AND MEN AND OLD PEOPLES OF PALESTINE,
AT LEAST ALL OF THIS IS HAPPENING NOW IN OUR PRESENT DAYS !AND Y GUYS U R TALKING ABOUT A THING THAT HAPPENED 60 YEARS AGO!OF COURSE U GOT RIGHT TO DO THIS ,BUT I THINK THAT IT'S TIME FOR GIVING ATTENTION FOR THESE ISRAELIAN JEWISH PEOPLE AND WHAT THEY DOING EVERYDAY IN PALESTINE!
IF U WILL REMEMBER THE WARSAW GHETTO DAY ,THEN I THINK THAT WE MUST REMEMBER EACH DAY THAT A PALESTINIAN IS KILLED BY THOSE ISRAELIAN!
MAYBE U R SAYING THIS COZ YOU ARE NOT LIVING IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND U R NOT TOUCHED SO MUCH BY THE BAD ACTION OF ISRAEL!

[Solla]

The Holocaust must be remembered and the Nazis must be punished but we are not in the position to take lives. If we do so we are no better than any war-loving, ignorant, self-centered, cappie murderer. Revenge is not the way to honor the memories of the innocent people who lost their lives in the Holoaust. Preventing it from happening again is the way.

[Zombie]

DTC, calm down.
Who evers said we are not discussing the Palestinian issue on this forum? Go look through the treads in politics and OI and you'd realize that we have more than once brought the issue up to light.
Fact is, this thread was started by Blasphemy to commemorate the Holocaust, i don't think there's an urgent need to transform it into a debate about Sharon vs Arafat. That's not the point.
If you got something to say about that issue, go look where we already discussed it and make your point there.
I don't know from which part of the ME you come from, some detail would be nice.

.Z.

[damn the capitalism]

ok ok mr zombie,i guess u r right ,i'm from the middle east ,from egypt(proud to be an egyptian)and i'm a christian that if u want details!
i've read a book since 1 month called STUDYING THE HOLOCAUST by RONNIE LANDAU ,it's a great book anf before i've read it and after i always show mercy to what have been done to them!
but the fact that i'm living in the middle east and i'm touched from what is happenning in palestine more than everyone in europe or america or any another country!so at the present time ,i don't find that it's the right time to talk about such subject(Holocaust) , i know that i'm so nervous about what is happening ,because of this i find that it's not the right time to talk about the holocaust or israel!
i'm not racist at all and an israelian or jewish manb is like a christian ,muslim,american,black,white,unless he is an invader who is agrreing about what is happening!
so at the present time we must forget a little(i don't mean that talking about the holocaust is a bad thing) about this subject and talking more and more without meaningless slogans about palestine!
---------
DIE SHARON!

[Zombie]

Yeah, and while we're at it, let's forget about World War 1, World War 2, the Cold War, the Cuban Revolution, the nuclear Holocaust, the Armenian genocide, the Gulf War... seeing how irrelevant these things are right now! We all know looking back at the past doesn't teach us anything right?

By the way, I'm from Lebanon.

.Z.

[damn the capitalism]

yes it teachs us that what happened in the holocaust is happening now, what hitler have done to the jewish,sharon is doing it in EL DAFA ,GHAZA,RAMMALLAH, and he is killing and killing ,that what the past teaches us and that past have teached the administration of israel how to kill people! killing people as they did in south of lebanon ,and sabra-Shettilla ,remember that the holocaust is used by many jewish as an excuse to their policy using the anti-sematic as terminoligy!any way being from lebanon i think that u must be touched like i do ,isn't it?!
i have in lebanon and i went to the south one day and saw the refugees and many poor lebanon!
i think that is the subject that we must talk about!leve this subject we ta3ala netkalem 3ala elly beye7ssal fe felestine ,akid mesh asdi en el yahoud yesstahlo ,bass elly beya3melouh delwa2ti howa e3ada lel kan beya3melo hitler! (what do u think about this arabic?:-D)

[Blasphemy]

DTC, please do not turn this thread into another Israel-Palestine discussion.

I just want to make one thing straight. Every person is a human being. Even Israeli soldiers guarding illegal settlements, even Israeli soldiers fighting in the allies of Gaza and Ramallah, even American soldiers occupying (or is it "liberating"?) Iraq. They are all human beings just like you, just like me. When we start looking at other people as not-human, that is when we our values start degenerating. The Nazis did not look at Jews as human beings, and that was their biggest crime. You must remember that soldiers are not inhuman monsters. If you look upon them like that, you are aligning yourself with the biggestl, most brutal criminals in history.

[damn the capitalism]

yes and sharon consider the palestinian that they are not human being ,and anyone who is opposing that so he must go to hell!as i said the holocaust is an excuse for what they are doing now!
what a strange subject in a such present period!

[Reuben]

I agree with blasphemy. I hate the way people have to see all jewish history in terms of Israeli oppression palestine (which of course I deplore).

The majority of those who died in aushcwitz were not zionists and none had done an wrong to tthe palestinians. The fact that today Israeli soldiers are oppressing palestinians should effect the way we remember the holocaust and the sympathy we feel for its victims. Anti-semitism does not make Israeli sate terrorism any more legitimate, and he same way the terror being carrried out against Palestinians oes not mean as you put it, that we shouldnt talk about the holocaust at this time. You have no right to tell blasphemy that because of something done by other Jews Israelies for which he bares no responsibility, that he does not rhav the right to 'talk about the holocaus a this time'

I have expressed my support for the Palestinians many times, however can i make a plea that that this does not turn into a israel palestine thread an that people stick o offerring theire condolences to the communties in poland latvia Russia that were destroyd to those who died and to those who were left orphaned. Israel-palestinedoes not have o e the sole prism through which we relate to jews or jewish history

[immortal211]

if we should remember the jews day then we should remember the armenian genoicide and the genocide eveyday on innocent palestinians !!!!!!!!

[Reuben]

Look immortal who the fuck are you arguing with?

No one has said that we shouldnt. In the past their have been posts in commemoration of the Armenian genocide and many posts in support of palestine. I really do not see why there has to be this level of agression simply because on holocaust rememberance day somebody chose completely legitimately to comemorate the holocaust. I would not show this level aggression to Palestinian who chose to commem,orate the Nacbah or an armenian who chose to commemorate the armenian genocide, so why is their such a level of aggression being shown to Jew who chooses to commemorate the holocaust. It seems that the only time sme people are willing to menton the holocaust is in the context 'It was trrible but...'. Now that is fine, but the point of this thead as to commemorate the slaughter of a huge number of men women and children because they were either Gypsie, Gay or Jewish or whatever. Blas made this very explcit.

[Beccie]

Reuben

I think he/she may have been responding to the post I made on the first page;


Imagine how wonderful this world would be if everyone held this view. Unfortunately this is not the case…. *sigh*

The world will never forget the Holocaust. Too bad we cannot say the same about the Armenian genocide.

What I was trying to say is that it is wonderful how many people acknowledge and remember the Holocaust. It's a pity we can't say that about all tragedies.

[damn the capitalism]

i agree and give support to comrade Immortel 211 ,very good strong point, i have said it before and the peoples ignored it!
What those damned jews are doing is a kind of repeating of what hitler have done to them, ,So if they are really unhappy of what have done to the jews in the 30's and the 40's so why they are doing the same thing to the palestinians!
Once again good point comrade Immortal 211!
-----
Die Sharon!

[Beccie]

dtc,

Are you saying that we should forget about the millions of people that died in the holocaust because of what some fuckheads are doing in the name of Israel (remember that not all those people that lost their lives in the holocaust were Jews) now?

I agree that we need to mourn all tragedies (I was the one who first raised that point in this thread). Lets not place some tragedies above others.

[damn the capitalism]

Damn the zionists!Damn Hertzel and damn the zionist organization all over the world,damn those barbarian that one days (i'm talking about the zionists) were shaking like chicken in front the crazy Hitler ,and now they raping and killing the palestinian!the probleme with those peoples that they have forgotten their past!

[Reuben]

DTC - 'i agree and give support to comrade Immortel 211 ,very good strong point, i have said it before and the peoples ignored it!
What those damned jews are doing is a kind of repeating of what hitler have done to them, ,So if they are really unhappy of what have done to the jews in the 30's and the 40's so why they are doing the same thing to the palestinians!
Once again good point comrade Immortal 211! '

You are obviously not an anti-zionist but an anti-semite. What is being done to the palestinians is not being done by 'those damned jews' as you put it but being done by the Israeli government. TThere are many jews where i live including myself who are actively opposiing Israel. The fact that, on this thread of all threads, you chose to attack and blame a whole ethnic group is indicative of your racist mentality.

You may like to consider before you make such generalisations that the last surviving leader of the Warsaw hetto uprising, Marek Edelman, has ACTUALLY WRITTEN TO THE PALESTINIANS TO EXPRESS HIS SOLIDARITY.

I really do not know what this intention was on this thread. Their is a general consensus in support of Palestine and that is good. The palesitnians are sufferring a disgusting injustice. However that does not mean that we cannotm, as a board commemorate the Holocaust without the thread being peppered by your anti-semitism. Similarly the oppression of the palestinians does not and should nto effect the sympathy we feel forholocaust victims who are either jewish or non-jewish

[MarxIsGod]

Quote: from Reuben on 1:09 pm on May 4, 2003
DTC - 'i agree and give support to comrade Immortel 211 ,very good strong point, i have said it before and the peoples ignored it!
What those damned jews are doing is a kind of repeating of what hitler have done to them, ,So if they are really unhappy of what have done to the jews in the 30's and the 40's so why they are doing the same thing to the palestinians!
Once again good point comrade Immortal 211! '

You are obviously not an anti-zionist but an anti-semite. What is being done to the palestinians is not being done by 'those damned jews' as you put it but being done by the Israeli government. TThere are many jews where i live including myself who are actively opposiing Israel.

While the Israreli government certainly is not giving Palestinians equal treatment, it is an abhorrence (sp) to compare them to the Nazis. Suppression of a people is not the same as systematic destruction. The fact that DTC attributes this not to the Israeli government but to the "damned Jews" just shows how fucking ignorant he is and as a Jew I take offense to it. Not all Jews live in Israel, not all Jews support Israel, and not all Jews who live in Israel are Zionists. There are hundreds of thousands of orthodox Jews in Israel who highly disapprove of some the Israeli govt.'s policies. The reason they live in Israel is the same reason Muslim people choose to live in Israel or Mecca; they are holy sites and people would want to live closer to them.

Also, it is unfair to blame the Israeli army as a whole because most Israeli, with some exceptions, are required to serve in the army. Also, DTC, a great deal of Palestinians killed by "Israelians" :confused: were killed because they fired at or assaulted Israeli troops. On Friday, several Palestinian civilians were killed because they were STUPID enough to stand and watch while some other Palestinians exchange gun fire with Israeli soldiers who were attempting to capture a notorious terrorist leader.

To compare the "damned Jews" or even the Israeli government to the Nazis shows absolutely no recognition of how malicious and degrading the Nazis were not only to Jews, but to gays, cripples, Jehova's witnesses, COMMUNISTS, etc. The following link shows a picture of a Polish Jew being beaten by Nazi soldiers, notice the absolute look of glee on their faces:

http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images...es/Pol-jew1.jpg (http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/Pol-jew1.jpg)


Comparing them to Israel gives the Nazis a complement that they are no where near deserving.

[ChiTown Lady]

While I will be the first to say that the crimes committed against the Jews in Nazi Germany were some of the most heinous crimes against humanity that man has ever seen. I will also have to state that the crimes being waged against the Palestinian people by the imposed State of Israel are equally if not more heinous.

The Jewish people who were murdered during the time of Nazi Germany should certainly be remembered as martyrs and victims of genocide against a people. This was deplorable to say the least, and should never be commended or forgotten as such.

As well, we should NEVER allow such a thing to happen against any other people in the history of mankind.

I would hope that in our remembrance we could find in our minds, hearts and even souls and prayers to remember the Palestinian people. A people being murdered daily by the seemingly hypocritical Israeli’s in their quest to covet a land that has been inhabited by the Palestinian people for thousands of years - A population that has been living on that land from time and memorial. They were not displaced onto that land – they actually originated there from the beginning of time.

The Palestinians are also Semitic by race, as are the vast majority of Muslims. The annihilation of the Arab-Muslims is in fact an anti-Semitic quest, and an act of genocide in that realm.

Just to set the record straight.

So in remembering the Holocaust, let’s not only remember the Jewish people who were murdered during the time of W.W.II but let’s also acknowledge the genocide being waged as we speak against the Arab-Muslim Semitic population.

I deplore all acts of genocide and wholesale murder against any people. While I certainly remember the past, I can’t help but acknowledge the present – which I feel is much more urgent and is happening still today in the here and now.

May we all work together to counter all wholesale acts of genocide and oppression against any people – this is what it is about and this is what we should be uniting against – NOW!!!

[damn the capitalism]

when i say the damned jews ,i mean the zionist the sharon administration,and everyone who is jews and don't protest against what's is done everyday,so that's prove that i'm not anti-sematic,u got to know that i hate the anti semetism,maybe what i've written wasn't sclear, but now i think what u have understood!

According to the bullshit said by marxisgod ,i think that one day if u were a palestinian living in a rapped land by some fucking fool who killed your parents or your son or your girl or your friends andthey 've put you out of your house ,so i think that u won't find anything to do useful in your life but trying to attack the israelien soldiers!
i think with this point i'm right,u got to be more developped minded and u got to put ypurself in the palestinian position and feel how they suffer and that they got no solution exept trying to fight against an invider!
i've spoke with some jews in the last summer ,they were against what is done to the palestinian but they are not so touched coz first they are not palestinian and they are not from the middle east,seconly they are not touched coz they are living in peace which every palestinian is searching for!
so the fact that you feel the mercy for the palestinians and nothing is done to stop this,there's no action in israel by the people to stop what it's done to the palestinians,and if there's an action ,it's not effective at all!
what u said reuben about jews is right ,and i know and i agree that talking about jews is another thing to talk about zionists!but we must agrree all that the aim of the zionists and those who killed in palestine is something disgusting and against humanity,so once again damn the the zionists aim!

[Blasphemy]

DTC - why do you have to constant need to bring up the Palestinian issue, when it has been made clear time after time that is thread does not concern this issue? Just because of Israel's actions we should forget every crime commited against the Jews in history? Should we forget the millions who were denied of their homes, their families, their identities, their lands, their dignity and their lives? "Yeah, the Holocaust was really bad, but look at fucking Israel". Wake the fuck up! Not everything that's got to do with the Jews has something to do with the Palestinians. Right now, there are at least 3 other threads concerning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and there is no need to turn this into another one. By minimizing the gravity of the biggest, most henious, most terrible crime committed against humanity in history, you are giving your hand to it. You are contributing your part to the belittling of the impact of the Holocaust on the world. A world that forgets the Holocaust, that will forget its meaning, is a world that will allow another one to take place. Do not bring upon us another Holocaust by belittling this one.

[damn the capitalism]

why blaphemy are u so nervous like this,first i was answering comrade reuben and i was agreeing with him in some points, so why the hell are u angry like this,i told 100000 of times my definition of bads jews ,i think that u must understand it and understand that i'm not anti-semetic!
when i read this thread i just wondered that 's not the right time ,and that we got other things that are so important at our present days!and finally i understood your point!
and i was insulting the damned orthodox zionists and their aim , in responding to what have been written by marxisgood who really turn this subject into israeli-palestinian discussion and mor of this ,he is in the side of the zionist and neutral for the palestinian!
and that's it

[chesgreat]

Well, I wanted to talk about the Holocaust. My English isn't very great so i hope you can understand it. I saw about a year ago something on TV. They confronted Jewish poeple and people that were against Hitler and his ideas and on the other side of the room there was this women. She was the wife of a Dutch guy who did some really terrible things. He was like a friend of Hitler. He killed many people in the Holocaust. And they had a video about that. The talkshow host showed it and the women just turn her head. She didn't look at it. When the video was over, she said: The Holocaust never happened. It was just propaganda ( sorry, don't know the English word) from England and America against Germany. And all the people were shocked that she said that. Men, she's like brainwashed. There are so many evidences that the Holocaust has really bin there and she keeps denying it. What a ..... ! There are so many people killed! I can't believe that! That was what I wanted tot tell, sorry about the bad English But I'm new here ;) Peace!

[oki]

today,may 4th,is the dutch rememberence day of the victoms of teh naziwar.


http://www.rockingham.k12.va.us/EMS/Holoca.../Holocaust.html (http://www.rockingham.k12.va.us/EMS/Holocaust/Holocaust.html)


chesgreat,I think your talking about the widow rost van torgeren,she is the wife of a,now dead,dutch collaborator,an NSB leader.she is untill this day(she's about 200 jears now)active in facists movements.there was a riot about her about 10 jears ago,when someone discovered she gets a gouv. pension,because her husband was a gouv. employee.they tried to take that away from her but couldn't,since she never murdered,and all are threated the same in our lawstate....
she's an awfull *****,and I hope she dies today.in pain.

and one other thing,if anybody brings up the palestinian struggle and compare it to the holocaust,you obviously have no real grasp of the size of what happened during ww2.

it was the biggest man-made tragedy in recorded history.noone can fight for the rights of palestinians without a full realisation of what happened back then.please read teh link I gave.

(Edited by oki at 3:37 pm on May 4, 2003)

[Blasphemy]

DTC,

What, MarxIsGod is a Zionist?! Quick, burn him before he spreads his evil gospel! It is, of course, obvious that all Zionists are intrinsically evil people who must be kept away from society.

What do you mean "it's not the right time". In your humble opinion, is it not the right time to talk about how millions of helpless people were inhumanly butchered in the hands of the Nazis? Is it not the right time to remember how 1.5 million children starved to death, suffacated to death, were shot killed or died in some other sickening fashion? This is just the time to remember it. When innocent people die in the hands of a power-hungery superpower, when millions starve to death while the entire world stands by and watches, when faschist regimes exploit their people, when human lives have no value whatsoever, when money and capital are the only holy things in our society, when those who seek peace are labelled as traitors and criminals, this is just the right time to remember the Holocaust. If the Holocaust has become something that is not worth remembering, what is?

[Blasphemy]

DTC,

What, MarxIsGod is a Zionist?! Quick, burn him before he spreads his evil gospel! It is, of course, obvious that all Zionists are intrinsically evil people who must be kept away from society.

What do you mean "it's not the right time". In your humble opinion, is it not the right time to talk about how millions of helpless people were inhumanly butchered in the hands of the Nazis? Is it not the right time to remember how 1.5 million children starved to death, suffacated to death, were shot killed or died in some other sickening fashion? This is just the time to remember it. When innocent people die in the hands of a power-hungery superpower, when millions starve to death while the entire world stands by and watches, when faschist regimes exploit their people, when human lives have no value whatsoever, when money and capital are the only holy things in our society, when those who seek peace are labelled as traitors and criminals, this is just the right time to remember the Holocaust. If the Holocaust has become something that is not worth remembering, what is?

[damn the capitalism]

even if marxisgod don't tell that he is zionist, i think that what he said about the palestine case and he is agreeing with what the israeilien are doing ,that prove that he is a zionist ,even if its an accuse, when a normal person read his opinion ,he will think that he is a zionist,isn't it!
don't talk this way ,and say HUMBLE OPINION ,u got to respect what i'm saying as i do!that's very important!okay?
IT'S THE RIGHT TIME TO TALK ABOUT THE PALESTINIAN CAS AND IT'S RIGHT TIME WHEN WE REMEMBER THE HOLOCAUST OR WHATEVER GENOCIDE ,WE MUST THINK ABOUT THE PALESTINIANS!YESSSSSS WE MUST THINK!
I DON'T ACCUSE ANY JEWS ,BUT I ACCUSE AND I THINK U DO,ANYONE WHO GOT SOME ZIONIST THOUGHT OR IF HE IS WITH ISRAELIEN SIDE!AND MANY HERE DO THIS ,IT'S SO WRONG!
YES THE HOLOCAUST IS A BIG CASE ,WHAT MAKES MJE SO INTERESTED FOR A LONGTIME ABOUT THIS SUBJECT IS THAT I FELT THIS PEOPLE ,I PUT MYSELF IN THE VICTIMS POSITION TO FEEL THEIR MISERY ,THAT'S WHT U AND EVERYONE MUST DO FOR THE PALESTINIAN!
AND THANX!
I THINK THAT WITH THIS ,I'VE SQID WHAT I WANTED TO SAY ABOUT THIS FORUM ,I THINK THAT U'VE UNDRSTAND MY POINT OF VIEW, SORRY FORR MIXING THE HOLOCAUST WITH THE PALESTINIAN CASE ,I THINK EVERYONE ELSE WOULD DO THIS ,BECAUSE OF THEIR FEELINGS FOR THE PALESTINIANS!
-------
dAMN THE ZIONISTS AND EVERYNE WHO THINK LIKE THEM!

[MarxIsGod]

I'm not saying I agree with everything the Israeli govt is doing, I simply want to know how you can form a state with no organized leadership. The Palestinian Authoity is led by an old guy who wishes he had the power and authority that he once did. There are so many varying opinions among the Palesinians that it is impossible to negotiate with them about peace or statehood because you would only be doing so with an organization that does not represent the entire Palestinian population.

[damn the capitalism]

YOU GOT TO KNOW THAT THE GOVERNEMENT OF ARRAFAT OR THE NEW GOVERNEMENT OF ABO MAZEN ,IS THE BEST OF THE GOVERNEMENT THAT IS TODAY AT PALESTINE ,WHY?
COZ IF ONE DAY IF HAMASS OR FATH OR GIHAD OR ANY OF THIS ORGANIZATIONS WOULD COME TO POWER ,THIS CASE ILL NEVER END ,NEVER !SO THERE'S NO OTHER CHOICE EXEPT THE NEW ADMINISTRATION OF ABOU MAZEN, FORGET NOW ABOUT THIS OLD GUY!
AND NOW I REALLY NEED TO SEE WHAT WILL WITH THE NEW ADMINISTRATION ,IT'S USELESS AS LONG AS A FUCKING MEN LIKE SHARON ARE INTO POWER AND THEY WANT TO REACH A STUPID DREAM!
I THINK WHAT I SAY IS REALASTIC!
FOR EXEMPLE WHAT ABOUT THE ROAD PLAN,IT'S USELESS,WHAT ABOUT THE PRESIDENTS IN THE WORLD OPINIUON ,IT WOULD NEVER END!
THE PROBLEME IS THAT WHEN I SEE SOMEONE POSTING ANYTHING ATTACKING THE BEHAVIOUR OF PALESTINIAN ,I REALY GET NERVOUS!
THAT'S WHAT'VE MADE!I FEEL SORRY!

[Blasphemy]

I would just want to thank DTC for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion about the Holocaust, for bringing up irrelevant topics, for expressing his views which may be looked upon as anti-Semetic, and for manifesting sheer hatred towards hundreds of innocent people.

Thank you DTC!

[MarxIsGod]

DTC,

If you are so passionate about your anti-semetic opinions that you need to type everything in caps instead of just using bold (which happens to be easier to read), then find yourself a Nazi board at which to post your twisted ideologies instead of smearing your crap messages on a topic that's about the Holocaust. There are plenty of anti-Zionist topics on Che-Lives so there is no need to transform this into one.

:angry:

[damn the capitalism]

Thanx alot comrade blasphemy for your kind message ,
:-DDDDDDDDDDDDD u make me laugh!
Hey mr marxisgod,suddenly u became so nervous ,,,hein,so why this?
if i'm turning this subject to anti-zionist one,so why did u get angry and nervous,i think that's prove that u got zionists ideas !why, coz u became nervous!
---
Once again u r attacking me in a bad way when u say "CRAP MESSAGES" ,if u want me to respect u ,so u got to do it first,so try to watch your mouth!
----
i'm not an anti-semetic person,we are all human beings ,but i think that when u find someone who thinks like a zionist or he is not on the palestinians side,i think this would be so strange!
---
As i said before i think that i've posted what i wanted to post ,so we don't have to make others discussion!

[Reuben]

if i'm turning this subject to anti-zionist one,so why did u get angry and nervous,i think that's prove that u got zionists ideas !why, coz u became nervous!

Now that is incredibly logical (sarcasm) the fact that he is gettin nervous proves hes a zionist. Whther he is or whether he is not, it is completely leigitimate for Blas to object to this thread being turned into something its not. Both me and blas support palestine, we simply object all aspects of jewish jistory being seen in relation to Israel-palestine. Thi is not the sum of jewish history and furthermore the disgusting oppression of the palestinians bears no relation to how we feel about the genocide 60 years ago of people who just happened to be of the same ethnicity as the Israeli government

[MarxIsGod]

Quote: from Reuben on 3:38 pm on May 4, 2003
Now that is incredibly logical (sarcasm) the fact that he is gettin nervous proves hes a zionist. Whther he is or whether he is not, it is completely leigitimate for Blas to object to this thread being turned into something its not. Both me and blas support palestine, we simply object all aspects of jewish [h]istory being seen in relation to Israel-palestine. Thi is not the sum of jewish history and furthermore the disgusting oppression of the palestinians bears no relation to how we feel about the genocide 60 years ago of people who just happened to be of the same ethnicity as the Israeli government

I agree. I don't object to people having certain opinions, I object to the generalizations and prejudicial remarks about Jews.

[damn the capitalism]

but whenu act wild and nervous, ithink when going like this ,so there's no different between u and an animal ,and i think it will be hard that somebody will listen to u!

[MarxIsGod]

Quote: from damn the capitalism on 1:24 pm on May 4, 2003
Hey mr marxisgod,suddenly u became so nervous ,,,hein,so why this?
if i'm turning this subject to anti-zionist one,so why did u get angry and nervous,i think that's prove that u got zionists ideas !why, coz u became nervous!
...i'm not an anti-semetic person,we are all human beings ,but i think that when u find someone who thinks like a zionist or he is not on the palestinians side,i think this would be so strange!

Since when does trying to clarify one's opinion and trying to take things down a notch make someone a Zionist?
:confused:

[damn the capitalism]

u really make me laugh:-DD

[MarxIsGod]

DTC,

Go on and laugh, Nazi!

:angry:

[damn the capitalism]

keep on be nervous like a small kid!
instead of being humilited by a rude guy like me ,i think that u must put your tongue ine your ass!

[MarxIsGod]

Quote: from damn the capitalism on 5:17 pm on May 5, 2003
keep on be nervous like a small kid!
instead of being humilited by a rude guy like me ,i think that u must put your tongue ine your ass!


Such a mature comment from someone who is accusing me of being "a small kid".

[damn the capitalism]

u proved me that u real kid:-Dcoz everytime u r proving that u are getting so nervous!
u got just to keep cool when u r talking with someone who is opposing your ideas!

[ChiTown Lady]

Chesgreat that thing you said about the wife of that Dutch guy saying the Holocaust never happened and that it is just propaganda reminds me of the Sicilian-Italians here that I have heard saying there was no such thing as the Mafia. I am half Sicilian-Italian desended myself and my grandma gave me first hand accounts of some of the shit the Mafia did to even our own family back in the 30’s, so those Mafioso’s saying there was no such thing are full of shit. The Dutch guy’s wife was full of shit too.

Back to the topic of the Holocaust specifically:

One thing that bothers me about Holocaust memorials is that only Jewish victims are remembered. What about all the other millions of people who were killed in World War II. The following are World War II statistics from Funk & Wagnall's encyclopedia.

Human Losses: The human cost of the war fell heaviest on the USSR, for which the official total military and civilian, is given as more than 20 million killed. The Allied military and civilian losses were 44 million; those of the Axis, 11 million. The military deaths on both sides in Europe numbered 19 million and in the war against Japan, 6 million. The U.S., which had no significant civilian losses, sustained 292,131 battle deaths and 115,187 deaths from other causes. The highest numbers of deaths, military and civilian, were as follows: USSR more than 13,000,000 military and 7,000,000 civilian; China 3,500,000 and 10,000,000; Germany 3,500,000 and 3,800,000; Poland 120,000 and 5,300,000; Japan 1,700,000 and 380,000; Yugoslavia 300,000 and 1,300,000; Romania 200,000 and 465,000; France 250,000 and 360,000; British Empire and Commonwealth 452,000 and 60,000; Italy 330,000 and 80,000; Hungary 120,000 and 280,000; and Czechoslovakia 10,000 and 330,000.

As you can see from the statistics, China suffered the most civilian casualites by far. I've never heard of one World War II memorial including Chinese victims. Because we omit so many victims in these memorials, people only remember the Jewish Holocaust victims. I know one of their slogans is "Never forget", but let's not never forget all other millions of people who lost their lives in World War II.

[oki]

these chinese were killed by the japanese?I never even thought about that...wow.

[Blasphemy]

ChiTown Lady, these casualties which you have mentioned died in the war, not the Holocaust. The Holocaust refers to civilians which have been killed by the Nazis, not in battle, but in camps to which they have been taken. Amongst those people, who number in around 10-15 million, the Jews were the majority. Close to 7 millions Jews have been murdered, and that is why they are rememberd the most. But, this does not mean we should forget the many gypsies, homosexuals, physically and mentally disabled and other who have also died in the brutal hands of the Nazis.

Millions have been killed in the war, in battle and in bombings. They are not Holocaust victims but war victims, and I don't think that they have been forgotten in the least. On the contrary, when speaking about the war, one usually tends to think about the millions who died in it, not about the Jews in the Holocaust.

[ChiTown Lady]

OK Blasphemy – I’ll argue that point with you specifically then.

My friend Janet sent me this email regarding this topic specifically yesterday, and her parents and grandparents lived though this nightmare first hand – so listen up:

One more thing about the Holocaust. My parents lived through the Nazi occupation during WW II and have some first hand accounts of what happened. Hitler had a plan to "Germanize" Poland and went after all Poles who were in the way. He of course started with the Jews and nearly wiped them out, but his plans went further. There were entire villages of non-Jews that were taken to concentration camps to make room for German immigrants. German farmers, bakers, craftsmen, everyone needed to make a village run, were brought in from Germany. The new immigrants basically had their pick of homes and businesses.

This didn't happen in my parents' village, but all their livestock and property was commandeered by the Germans. A neighbor who killed one of her own pigs without the German's permission was taken to the middle of town where her two sons were forced to dig three graves for their execution. My aunt was suppose to go to camp, but my grandmother had my mother go to the train station instead and told my mother to walk with a limp and expose a long scar on her leg. My grandmother's strategy worked as the Germans sent my mother back home. A friend of my father's survived a firing squad by pretending to get hit and lying for hours with dead and dying people all around him until it was safe for him to leave.The parents of my sister's sister-in-law met in a concentration camp when they were children, both orphans as their entire families were killed. To this day, they never once spoke of their experience at the camp to their children, because the experience was too painful. And the stories go on and on.

So, I get a little upset when only Jews are remembered as the Holocaust victims. It seems the Jews own the Holocaust and everything associated with it. Recently, in the concentration camp Auschwitz, which is just outside of Krakow, the Poles wanted to put up a Christian cross in memory of all the dead Christians. The Jews would not allow it and have a lot of power to prevent such an action. The Poles being very religious are extremely upset about this. I also read an article about the Jews trying to stop a mini-mall from being built two miles from Auschwitz. The Pole's again are extremely upset about this as Poland's economy is very bad with over 20% unemployment. So, there seems to be a growing resentment in Poland.

*** end of what Janet said

But as you can see – this certainly did NOT only affect the Jewish population there – so please have some respect and also some compasion for the other victims of war and of the Nazi murder spree. This is something that needs to be done for all to be able to heal equally in this regard.

It has to be a healing process for all or it will never work of any - not even this one group, no matter who this one group is --- unless all are allowed to heal together as one.

Many peoples sufferred and died by mass murder and destrctive means- this is what should be recognized in the end by all or not even the one will heal properly at the hands of leaving open wounds in the other for their sake.

[Blasphemy]

I never said that Jews alone suffered from the brutal hands of the Nazis. All I said is that since they were the majority, they are remembered the most. I did not justify this, but I think it is understandable. I never said its right, and that it should be this way, but one can see what it happens.

I also have a slight problem with this letter. The use of the term "the Jews" is quite disturbing. The Jews are not a world-wide corporation with similiar goals and targets. "The Jews", as a whole, did not try and prevent these people from putting up a cross. A group of people, who were Jewish, did it. Not "the Jews".

[Reuben]

Chiown lady I understand your feelings, but it is important to be aware that there was significant polish collaborationin the sluahgter of Jews, in some towns this was spontaneous, there was one town in particular in which nearlyhalf of the population turned on the jewish part of the town. Mny of those who escaped the ghettoes were hunted down with the help of the generally anti-semitic local population.

On the question of crosses i believe that the reaction by some jews is wrong and misguided but understandable. For hundreds of years, in that part of the world the church acted as a proponent of anti-semitism, encouraging pogroms and popular anti-semitism. This is not to say to be a christian is to be an anti-semite., that would be very wrong. However it is understandable, in a historical contxt, that some jews may object although i recognise this reaction is wrong and hurtful to the ethnic polish population.

I too agree with blasphem that you should not say 'The jews' did this or the jews did that. You seem to imply that the actions of jews is causing resentment. The fact is that anti-semitism has always been extremely prevelant in poland and jews have traditionally been treated like shit.To say that jews are acausing anti-semitism is wrong, people have choice about how they react - they do not have to respond to the actions of some individuals by generalising their reaction against a whole ethnic group - if some poles react anti-semitically then they are responsible for their own reaction.

(Edited by Reuben at 4:01 pm on May 9, 2003)