American History X

[KalmKidd]

just wondering what do you guys think of american history x.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

I've sen most of it. I thought it was a interesting movie. I don't know what part about it I liked, but it was still very good.

[Leo]

I watched that movie and as an amateur film maker I was really impressed with some aspects of it... The film was generally well made, story was well constructed, acting was almost perfect and especially the prison scene and the transition of the character was just incredibly successful. As for its message, I don't think it really was a radical message. The movie was trying to show what racism was in a violent but realistic way but beyond that there wasn't anything else.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by Leo [email protected] 26 2006, 12:21 AM
I don't think it really was a radical message. The movie was trying to show what racism was in a violent but realistic way but beyond that there wasn't anything else.
Ahhh, I think that's a little bit unfair.

What about the scene where they smash up the supermarket because "some Korean" has taken it over? Derek says that so-and-so used to work there but got fired and replaced by illegal immigrants. This implies an understanding of the economic roots of racism.

Or what about Derek's motivation for being a Nazi in the first place - his father being murdered while trying to put out a fire in a "nigger neighbourhood".

However, I agree that the main thrust of this film is how hatred distorts the soul of the individual and discolours their human relationships. So, Derek ends up all destroying his mother and sister, even though he clearly loves them. How he feels about the black teacher is also important. This is a man he clearly admires (as is shown in one of the flashback scenes), but his borderline racist father and his later conversion to Nazism have totally distorted his actual feelings towards the man. And, of course, this is all epitomised by the tragic ending.

[Leo]

Ahhh, I think that's a little bit unfair.

Believe me, when I say something like that about a movie it is a compliment. At least it had a proper message, it knew what it was saying and it was saying it in a striking way. 90% of movies being made don't even have that! :o


What about the scene where they smash up the supermarket because "some Korean" has taken it over? Derek says that so-and-so used to work there but got fired and replaced by illegal immigrants. This implies an understanding of the economic roots of racism.

Or what about Derek's motivation for being a Nazi in the first place - his father being murdered while trying to put out a fire in a "nigger neighbourhood".

I already said that it was realistic. You can't be realistic if you don't realize material (economic) and psychological conditions.


However, I agree that the main thrust of this film is how hatred distorts the soul of the individual and discolours their human relationships. So, Derek ends up all destroying his mother and sister, even though he clearly loves them. How he feels about the black teacher is also important. This is a man he clearly admires (as is shown in one of the flashback scenes), but his borderline racist father and his later conversion to Nazism have totally distorted his actual feelings towards the man. And, of course, this is all epitomised by the tragic ending.

The ending was truly striking... As I said, it was a very well made movie, dialogues were good, the script was brilliant, yet as you said it was about the effects of hatred in the individual and individuals relationships.

[Fistful of Steel]

I really enjoyed it, the ending was especially powerful. The message was true enough, it seemed kind of like an obvious truth told really well.

[KalmKidd]

i agree the ending was powerful but all in all was put together GREAT,.

[FinnMacCool]

I haven't seen it but it pisses me off that this movie is the #1. reason why skinheads are demonzied and discrimated against. That and Romper stomper. Its just a big fucking shame that a movement that stood for working class pride is now called fascist and nazi, when most skinheads aren't even nazi!

[KalmKidd]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 02:07 AM
I haven't seen it but it pisses me off that this movie is the #1. reason why skinheads are demonzied and discrimated against. That and Romper stomper. Its just a big fucking shame that a movement that stood for working class pride is now called fascist and nazi, when most skinheads aren't even nazi!
i def agree rarely is a skinhead a nazi..

[bolshevik butcher]

I really don't think it's the amin reason. In Britain skinheads have been assosiated, by and large unfairly, with the national front and such movments for a long time. Of course there was a large right wing skinhead presence but there has always been a large amount of left wing skinheads that listened to punk and ska (black peoples music!), and are active in anti-facist movments among other things.

[bolshevik butcher]

I really don't think it's the main reason. In Britain skinheads have been assosiated, by and large unfairly, with the national front and such movments for a long time. Of course there was a large right wing skinhead presence but there has always been a large amount of left wing skinheads that listened to punk and ska (black peoples music!), and are active in anti-facist movments among other things.

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 02:07 AM
I haven't seen it but it pisses me off that this movie is the #1. reason why skinheads are demonzied and discrimated against. That and Romper stomper. Its just a big fucking shame that a movement that stood for working class pride is now called fascist and nazi, when most skinheads aren't even nazi!
I really don't think that those two movies especially "Romper Stomper" had much of an affect on people's attitudes towards skinheads. At least not in America. Long before these movies came out there was a widespread notion that a skinhead was a nazi. Anyone remember the 1980s? Geraldo Rivera getting his face smashed with a chair on national TV did more damage to the image of skinheads in the US than any movie. And even before that incident there was already a prevailing negative view of skinheads in mainstream society.

[Vanguard1917]

I've got to disagree with some of you here. American History X is a quite good film... with a shit political message.

I don't like the fact that the school where Derek's younger brother attends disciplines him for praising Mein Kampf. The child is obviously mis-guided, but banning him from praising Hitler as a 'civil rights hero' is childish in itself. As adults, his teachers should be capable of rational debate with the student about the matter, rather than attempt to solve the problem by sweeping the dirt under the carpet.

I don't like the black school head master character. His idea of defeating racism is going to the cops. Derek leaves prison only to be manipulated by the head master into giving information to the police on his old 'comrades'. This projects racism as a problem coming from the bottom of society. The state is allowed to look like the 'good guys', while a handful of skinhead scum (led by a middle-aged pantomine villain) are made to look like the source of the problem. Racism in society is an top-down phenomenon, not vice versa. The film does not even attempt to put this across... not even in the slightest way.

After Derek gets raped in prison, the head master visits him and asks him rhetorically: 'has anything you've done made your life better?' This is the same thing as saying: 'why don't you just stay out of trouble, Derek?' Activists who believe in a political cause do not just think about what makes their life 'better'. They believe in bringing about social change and they accordingly sacrifice their own narrow, individual 'interests'. In discouraging this the head master, as part of the establishment, is effectively discouraging all forms of militancy.

Having said all that, the film does have some genuinely moving scenes. I particularly like Derek's relationship with the black inmate in prison. If it was up to me, i would have developed that part of the film a lot more.

[KalmKidd]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 03:43 PM
I've got to disagree with some of you here. American History X is a quite good film... with a shit political message.

I don't like the fact that the school where Derek's younger brother attends disciplines him for praising Mein Kampf. The child is obviously mis-guided, but banning him from praising Hitler as a 'civil rights hero' is childish in itself. As adults, his teachers should be capable of rational debate with the student about the matter, rather than attempt to solve the problem by sweeping the dirt under the carpet.

I don't like the black school head master character. His idea of defeating racism is going to the cops. Derek leaves prison only to be manipulated by the head master into giving information to the police on his old 'comrades'. This projects racism as a problem coming from the bottom of society. The state is allowed to look like the 'good guys', while a handful of skinhead scum (led by a middle-aged pantomine villain) are made to look like the source of the problem. Racism in society is an top-down phenomenon, not vice versa. The film does not even attempt to put this across... not even in the slightest way.

After Derek gets raped in prison, the head master visits him and asks him rhetorically: 'has anything you've done made your life better?' This is the same thing as saying: 'why don't you just stay out of trouble, Derek?' Activists who believe in a political cause do not just think about what makes their life 'better'. They believe in bringing about social change and they accordingly sacrifice their own narrow, individual 'interests'. In discouraging this the head master, as part of the establishment, is effectively discouraging all forms of militancy.

Having said all that, the film does have some genuinely moving scenes. I particularly like Derek's relationship with the black inmate in prison. If it was up to me, i would have developed that part of the film a lot more.
i agree with u more than anyone exspecially where u stated the reason derkes brother got suspended

[Zero]

Curb stomp!

That movie was fucking sick.

[Graham_Pogo]

It was good , but I prefer Romper Stomper myself.

[ilosh]

Awesome movie, I really enjoyed it. I haven't given it much tought, but Vanguard1917 made some very good points I haven't realised.

Anywhoo a lot of people I know were confused by the ending (they tought it was a pro-nazi movie at the end). They didn't realise that being anti-nazi doesn't mean that we support violent gangs.

[Guerrilla22]

Good film, it showed the negative aspects of race reltions in the US. The main character becomes more a more racist over time. The movie does a nice job of showing how subtle racism can lead to out right hate.

[Lenin II]

If we are going to fight fascists, this is what we need to see. This is how they think, this is how they live. Of course, I think most of those rednecks over at Stormfront are overweight, gun-toting, fag-hating, bible-thumping, wife-beating, Reagan-loving poor white trash with nothing better to do with their lives than hate rather than tough, intelligent and charismatic Edward Norton skinhead types. But that’s either here nor there.

It not only gives great insight into Neo-Nazi culture by showing what Derek is like before, after he reforms it shows how to resist them. After a Nazi pulls a gun on him, Ed Norton snatches it off him and scares a whole barn full of Nazis by turning it on them. All this after beating their local fuehrer senseless in the back room.

Not saying we should respond with violence (unless necessary of course) but we must take this as an inspiration, showing that fascists can be changed, and those that cannot must be resisted with all of our strength.

[RASHskins]

It sheds light on how those nazi groups run. A skinhead like edward norton is almost non existent. Most of them are exactly like Andrew G described. The truth is there is one fucked up old piece of crap spreading his nazi propaganda around and taking advantage of vulnerable kids. Those are the real people we have to weed out and act against. You take them out most of those white national movements fall apart fairly quick.