A United America

[McLeft]

The South American Community of Nations (CSN) will be a continent-wide free trade zone that will unite two existing free-trade organizations—Mercosur and the Andean Community—eliminating tariffs for non-sensitive products by 2014 and sensitive products by 2019. The headquarters of this new organization will be in Lima while the South American Bank will be in Brasilia according to the agreements during the meetings. Complete integration between the Andean Community and Mercosur into the South American Community of Nations is expected by 2007.

At the Third South American Summit, on 8 December 2004, presidents or representatives from twelve South American nations signed the Cuzco Declaration, a two-page statement of intent, announcing the foundation of the South American Community. Panama attended the signing ceremony as observer.

Leaders announced their intention to model the new community after the European Union, including a common currency, parliament, and passport. According to Allan Wagner, Secretary General of the Andean Community, a complete union like that of the EU should be possible by 2019.

The mechanics of the new entity should come out at the First South American Community of Nations Heads of State Summit, to be held in Brasilia, in September 29-30 2005. A constitution is also expected to be drafted in 2005. The Second Summit will be held in Bolivia. No new institutions will be created in the first phase, so as not to increase bureaucracy, and the community will use the existing institutions belonging to the previous trade blocs.

I know this isn't the best place to talk about free trade and I certainly don't agree with it but when it happens among nations which I consider brothers (for I am half South American) then I think it is excusable. I also know that the very vague and old article from Wikipedia is not very informative or accurate but it offers hope to those who want to see the continent united (without the USA or Canada that is).

It has been my dream to see Latin America united and integrated, not just as some economic bloc like the EU or a trading bloc like ASEAN but as a democtratic and sovereign nation where Socialism will be the prime ideology for all (it has already started to grow gradually).

Perhaps i'm too hopeful but that's the only way things are achieved, imo, people dream about stuff, they develop or follow existing ideas and they achieve what they want although not most of the time but it is possible.

A United South/Latin America:

what do you think?, what are the possible consequences?, could it be possible?, what would the US think?, would they let it happen?, how would goverments best carry this out?

There are so many questions i'd like to ask but perhaps this is enough for now.

[redstar2000]

Of course, it's possible.

But there's no particular reason for it to be "socialist".

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[McLeft]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 07:46 PM
Of course, it's possible.

But there's no particular reason for it to be "socialist".

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif
Of course there is, ok I admit the actual so-called "swing to the left" may not be "full left" but it is a start. People have realized that the neoliberal policies inflicted by the IMF and the United States did not benefit the population of any of the continet's countries so they are opting for a more "radical" alternative (according to White House sources" and yes there is a need for a Socialist govt, people are starting to wake up now. it's only been a short time since the "swing to the left" began, it needs more time to see the benefits of it, it's possible outcomes et cetera.

[Tekun]

I think we gotta realize that although Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, and Bolivia is undergoing a swing to the "left," much of its problems still exist: poverty is still widespread, illiteracy has not fully been eradicated, exploitation is still going strong, etc
So although South America is uniting, the problem of the working class and peasants still exist
The only change is that the bourgeoisie is not foreign, it's South American
Programs to combat poverty and illiteracy are like crumbs to a beggar
Only until the working class seizes power from the leftist cappies will their problems be resolved

Chavez has been president for 3 or 4 yrs, but Venezuela's poor are still in the millions
Why? Because he keeps a system that was created to exploit, he might not exploiting on the scale of the Americans or Europeans, but its still exploitation
Grassroot socialist movements have to inform and reach the masses, then the ppl have to destroy the system that is currently suppressing them and build a new system, a socialist system, where only they are the rulers

[Sankara1983]

Just for perspective ... Chávez has been president for 7 years.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

In principle of course this sounds nice. But the last post was right. There remains so much corruption, exploitation and poverty in Latin America. Uniting the countries would be uniting these problems. I think uniting such a wide range of problems from such a wide range of places and cultures which are under such a wide range of governments will cause what is commonly known as "chaos".

I think, however, that if a union of the Latin American states is to be created, this is the best way to start it. I am an advocate of free and fair trade. That is, actual free and fair trade. Not the "free and fair" trade engaged in by the capitalist powers. But it is a dangerous step. We know of the corruption within the governments of Latin America and creating a free trade bloc will open up the doors for this corruption to increase. Thus, this could be to the detriment of all of Latin American people should the greed and self-interest set in. Which they, inevitably, will.

I am not usually a supporter of Marxism to the word. However if Marxist practices and methods were ever needed anywhere, it is in Latin America, as Tekun has suggested.

I doubt the advancement of socialism will be aided by this.

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 12:14 AM
Just for perspective ... Chávez has been president for 7 years.
Chavez was elected on a natioanl democratic bourgeoirse program. As time has gone by it has progressed into a socialist program and the bolviarian movment has dramatically swung to the left. Illitreacy has bene wiped out in Venezuela and health priviosns have increased dramatically, elemnts of workers control have been increasing as has nationalistaion.

[McLeft]

Perhaps the idea of union of further integration will sound more feasible in the future. If the current "left wing" governments indeed manage to do something, to at least reduce bourgeoisie power and close the massive class gap then the idea will become more appealing. If these governments do work in the long run then I don't see the idea of the union very far from now..at least 30 years maximum for talks to begin maybe before.

[Janus]

Well, this was the goal that Che was working towards. However, it may take quite a while for all of them to unite. But the recent elections of more leftist presidents seems to be a positive sign for Latin America. All I know is that they must reject foreign, particularly, US domination.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 09:45 PM
Well, this was the goal that Che was working towards. However, it may take quite a while for all of them to unite. But the recent elections of more leftist presidents seems to be a positive sign for Latin America. All I know is that they must reject foreign, particularly, US domination.
Easier said then done bro
When u got parrots like Mexico's Fox, Guatemala's Berger, El Salvador's Saca, Colombia's Uribe, and Peru's Toledo...who acquiesce to America's every demand, its rather hard to unify the continent
Yet, Im still hopeful

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 09:45 PM
Well, this was the goal that Che was working towards. However, it may take quite a while for all of them to unite. But the recent elections of more leftist presidents seems to be a positive sign for Latin America. All I know is that they must reject foreign, particularly, US domination.
Easier said then done bro
When u got parrots like Mexico's Fox, Guatemala's Berger, El Salvador's Saca, Colombia's Uribe, and Peru's Toledo...who acquiesce to America's every demand, its rather hard to unify the continent
Yet, Im still hopeful

[McLeft]

And now Colombians have re-elected uribe to a second term :angry:
Fox will go in november and Obrador (a leftist anti-american) will probably get elected. Peru will elect Humala (hopefully) so Uribe will be "landlocked" his neighbours will all be radical leftists so he'll have to choose between Latin America and the US, he's got to bear in mind that America "abandoned" Latin America.

[Guerrilla22]

I think Gran Co9lombia should be re-established. Something needs to be done about those pricks in the Colombian government though.

[Cheung Mo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 03:43 AM
And now Colombians have re-elected uribe to a second term :angry:
Fox will go in november and Obrador (a leftist anti-american) will probably get elected. Peru will elect Humala (hopefully) so Uribe will be "landlocked" his neighbours will all be radical leftists so he'll have to choose between Latin America and the US, he's got to bear in mind that America "abandoned" Latin America.
Every poll I've seen has had Humala behind by between 5 and 25 points.

I hope he beats Garcia, but given that everyone else is family seems to be a Stalinist, an ultra-homophobe, or a racialist, I'm not sure how appealing his policies will be to people whose leftism has a more libertarian or anarchistic flavour.

As for Obrador, I fail to see how he's anything more than a Spanish-speaking Jack Layton. :D (Still less bad than what most of the world has to deal with.)

[McLeft]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 04:59 AM
I think Gran Co9lombia should be re-established. Something needs to be done about those pricks in the Colombian government though.
I think Gran Colombia should be the first step to integration, but I wouldn't know what would work better, if a centralised govt or a federal one.

[The Grey Blur]

What is the benefit to Socialism if Latin America just recreates the EU?

It might be a step towards 'unification' but it could only increase exploitation of poor workers

[bolshevik butcher]

There already is an 'eu' in the Americas. It's called the FTAA. When Chavez talks about Latin American integraation he talks about sharing resources for the benifit of the working class such as oil, eduction, health care etc as has already been done very successfuly between Cuba and Venezuela and is being advanced further in Latin America just now.

[drain.you]

A united latin america was Che's dream, Castro shares it, so does Chavez supposably. I think its essential if the continent wants to gain some real economic clout and be able to stand independent of the USA.
I certainly believe that it is destined to happen sooner or later and it will hopefully be for the best. I would be suprised if Latin America is not united within our lifetimes however the US will do all it can to stop this obviously, I just hope it doesn't bring about military conflict between the continents because it would just ruin Latin America.

[McLeft]

I'm going to set up a message board solely dedicated to the vision of a united america, i'll let you know when it's finished and if anyone would like to help i'd be grateful. I want this to happen more than anything in the world. :wub:

[drain.you]

Count me in comrade McLeft, pm me with anything I can to do help, always interested in aiding a good cause.