Spying on Americans

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by ZD Net
These photos illustrate AT&T's phone, Internet tracking activities for NSA

Wired Magazine has obtained, and has posted, the complete text of a document that attempts to chronicle how AT&T equipped a "secret room" at 611 Folsom Street in San Francisco to track domestic and international phone calls made by American citizens and others.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/index.php?p=1103

Lots of technical details in case you want to try this at home. :lol:

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[greymatter]

So do you think the ruling class is acting in it's rational self-interest this time?

[bezdomni]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 03:45 PM
So do you think the ruling class is acting in it's rational self-interest this time?
The longer a class is in power over another class, the less rational it becomes.

No, they are not acting in their rational self-interest, because there is no way to "rationally" defend themselves. The way capitalism can extend its life longer is by either liberalism and the creation of a welfare state, so as to satiate the suffering of the workers...or by fascism, to attempt to eliminate all opposition to the ruling class. Either way, it is "capitalism in decay", as Lenin put it.

Is the ruling class acting in its self-interest? Well, they think so...but the mere belief that they can perpetuate their dictatorship over society is inherently delusional.

[greymatter]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 05:40 PM
The longer a class is in power over another class, the less rational it becomes.
If you had asked me a few months ago, I would agree that the ruling class is becoming senile. However, it seems more likely to me that the ruling class (in this case, high-ranking members of the government) is consciously in the process of creating a fascist police state.


No, they are not acting in their rational self-interest, because there is no way to "rationally" defend themselves.
Being able to monitor anyone's phone conversations seems like a very powerful tool for class supression, doesn't it? Tell me they were being irrational when you get arrested for being a communist.


Is the ruling class acting in its self-interest? Well, they think so...but the mere belief that they can perpetuate their dictatorship over society is inherently delusional.
A delusional belief with horrifying implications.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 08:46 AM
So do you think the ruling class is acting in it's rational self-interest this time?
No...even a lot of grassroots conservatives are upset about this kind of behavior.

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[the_last_straw]

Here's a recently release statement from an ATT employee about the technicals:
http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/KleinDecl-Redact.pdf

[Kuro Morfos]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 01:46 PM
So do you think the ruling class is acting in it's rational self-interest this time?
Greed is not rational, so no.

[Comrade-Z]

Greed is not rational, so no.

I don't know if one can accurately make a universal statement like that. I think it could be rational under certain circumstances. Such as if there are not enough resources for everyone. For instance, you and another person are stranded on a desert island, and you know it is probably going to be a few months before a rescue team arrives and finds you, and, in the meantime, there's only enough food to support one person. It would be in one's self-interest to hoard the food and perhaps kill off the other person, who would be a constant threat to the food supply and would endanger your well-being.

But this is completely tangential to what this thread is discussing, so...sorry...

Back to the topic:

I've noticed a very interesting development among some of my libertarian friends and the other local libertarians I hear about every now and then. They are starting to abandon the republican party in droves, both in terms of membership and in terms of ideological affiliation. Some of them don't like how the religious fundamentalists have gotten a hold of the Republican party and conservatism in general. Others think our imperial adventure in Iraq is foolish and dangerous (even moreso with the people my age. In fact, one of my libertarian friends said that he would riot in the streets and fully expect others to do likewise if there was ever a draft). But what tops all of this is the domestic spying, torture, the "Patriot" Act, and attack on civil liberties generally.

As I recently heard the libertarian radio talk show host Neil Boortz say (paraphrasing), "I don't get it. Libertarians keep on going back to the well of the Republican party and traditional conservatism, and they keep on dipping their bucket in, every time hoping to draw up that cold, clear, pristine libertarianism, and each time getting nothing but mud and filth. When are we gonna learn?!"

So, I think the ruling class is definitely making a mistake (from their point of view) with all of this domestic spying.

[JimmyC]

So what's up, Redstar 200,000?

You been spied on? I thought you were a kid. No one spies on high school students.

Don't worry about it.

Maybe if you bought into the system instead of fighting it all the time.

When was the last time you supported your football team? Or brought a gift to your teacher? Or did something that wasn't so cry baby like?

How much $$ you got on you anyway?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 10:10 PM
So what's up, Redstar 200,000?

You been spied on? I thought you were a kid. No one spies on high school students.

Don't worry about it.

Maybe if you bought into the system instead of fighting it all the time.

When was the last time you supported your football team? Or brought a gift to your teacher? Or did something that wasn't so cry baby like?

How much $$ you got on you anyway?
Jimmy, they "spy on" everybody. Clearly, you haven't been paying attention.

"Buy into the system"? Why would I want to do a dumbass thing like that? Look at the poor saps who enlisted in the imperial Army...they "believed in America" and ended up face down in a barrel of shit!

Want to join the "Legion of the Legless"? :lol:

I do not own a football team to "support"...do you? :lol:

The only "gift" any of my "teachers" ever deserved from me was a shit sandwich! They were all dumbasses who wasted my time! :angry:

At the moment, I have enough money to pay the rent and the electricity...so I'm in pretty good shape by American standards. :)

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[Janus]

You been spied on? I thought you were a kid. No one spies on high school students.
At least you think so and redstar got out of high school a long time ago...

How would any of us know whether we were spied on or not.

Wait, I think I might know, once I heard a voice on the phone saying : Your calls may be monitored for quality assurance." :lol:

[overlord]

Don't worry guys, I'm sure the gov is not spying on communists any more.... UNFORTUNATELY :angry: