Invade Brazil?

[Capitalist Lawyer]

Invade Brazil? Why on earth would the US want to invade Brazil, of all places, you might ask.

Plenty of reasons.

They have lots of ethanol - their reconstruction could be financed for free (like Iraq's was!)

They have a, make sure you're sitting down, "leftist" as president! These people need liberating!

They didn't join the Coalition of the Willling to occupy Iraq.

About 1% of the population is of Arabic descent.

And now they are enriching uranium (which means they could make nukes!)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4981202.stm

Get the Stealth bombers gassed up and tell Don Rumsfeld we've got another war for him (he'll be so happy).

Avenge 9/11 - Bomb Brazil!!!!!!

Oh wait....


Has Brazil threatened any of its neighbors (with wiping them off the face of the earth)?

No.

Has Brazil historically funded terrorist activities?

No.

Has Brazil prevented IAEA inspectors from monitoring its nuclear facilities?

No.

Has Brazil been running a secret nuke program for some 20 years and not reporting it to the IAEA?

No.

[TC]

Has Brazil threatened any of its neighbors (with wiping them off the face of the earth)?


Yes, Paraguay,


Has Brazil historically funded terrorist activities?

Yes, the FARC, which it naturally doesn't regard as terrorist.


Has Brazil prevented IAEA inspectors from monitoring its nuclear facilities?

Uh, yes, Brazil had an advanced nuclear weapons program in the 1980s during the junta.


Has Brazil been running a secret nuke program for some 20 years and not reporting it to the IAEA?

again, had one one in the 80s, and by definition, if a nuke program was a state secret, you'd not know about it.

---------------------------

[Capitalist Lawyer]

Has Brazil ever used chemical and biological weapons leading to deaths of thousands of its' own people?

No.

Has Brazil over run militarily, occupied and attempted to annex a neighboring state?

No.

Has Brazil lobbed missiles armed with warheads at neighboring states?

No.

Has Brazil ever summarily slaughtered thousands of its' own people for reason other than they opposed the current regime?

No.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Keep moving the goalposts like the good little troll that you are.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Has there ever been a more lame thread which just stated a load of details without arguing an actual point?

No.
_____

And TragicClown just owned you....if you're gonna' make a rhetorical thread absent of actual points, at least make sure your rhetoric is correct.

[TC]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 23 2006, 07:43 PM
Has Brazil ever used chemical and biological weapons leading to deaths of thousands of its' own people?

No.


No, and neither has Iraq. Iraq never had biological weapons, in fact the US was the only country in history to use biological warefare (which it did in the Korean war), and anthrax has never been successfully weaponized, not by Iraq, not by terrorists, not by any other government. While Iraq did have chemical weapons (primitive mustard gas, hardly a 'WMD') it has never used them on its own people, it is well documented by the CIA and US Army War College reports that the often referenced gassing of the Kurds at Halabja was done by the invading Iranian army, not the Iraqi government. (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/saddam/2004/1222halabja.htm)
Has Brazil ever used chemical and biological weapons leading to deaths of thousands of its' own people?


Has Brazil over run militarily, occupied and attempted to annex a neighboring state?
No.



Actually Brazil over run militarily, occupied, and attempted to annex Paraguay in the Paraguayan War.


Has Brazil lobbed missiles armed with warheads at neighboring states?

No.

This might have something to do with the fact that neighboring states of Brazil have never lobbed missiles at it. This is not the case for any of the countries you might want to see invaded.


Has Brazil ever summarily slaughtered thousands of its' own people for reason other than they opposed the current regime?

No.

lol what, are you freak'n kidding me? Brazil's "Esquadrao da Morte" are among the most notorious in the world. The Brazilian military dictatorship used military police death squads to eliminate any communist sympathizers or subversives it could find in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, a practice that continued after the return of civilian leadership where off duty officers would act as death squads to eliminate undesirables, both political and social. This is still widespread in Brazil today.
It was estimated that in 1999 alone, almost 14,000 people were killed by Brazilian government death squads. (thats 100 times as many people as Saddam is accused of killing at his trial)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3167296.stm

In fact their was a BBC article on Brazil's current death squad operations just last week:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4996634.stm


Seriously if you're going to make a dumb sarcastic argument it helps to have like, some basic background information about the examples you're using, don't you think.

[Leo]

While Iraq did have chemical weapons (primitive mustard gas, hardly a 'WMD') it has never used them on its own people, it is well documented by the CIA and US Army War College reports that the often referenced gassing of the Kurds at Halabja was done by the invading Iranian army, not the Iraqi government.

Well that was a pretty ridiculous article. <_< Laying aside the fact that the author seems pretty racist, he seems to forget that US supported Saddam Hussein and Iraq during the Iran -Iraq war, and Halabja was the stronghold of the Islamic Movement of Kurdistan which was a clear supporter of the Iranians and which was always against Kurdish political parties that have a deep love( :angry: ) for the United States and which was also against Iraqi government. Lets get one thing clear: Kurds have never been Saddam&#39;s people, in Iraq (and pretty much everywhere else) they were always seen as inferior and they faced oppression and racism. Now I don&#39;t doubt that later Kurdish political parties in Iraq used the massacare and I don&#39;t think they were too unhappy either at that time of the massacare because they weren&#39;t big fans of Islamic Movement of Kurdistan, but if the CIA could actually set the blame on Iranians on this issua, they most certainly would have, because despite two wars, US had much better relationships with, and worried far less about Iraq then Iran.

[TC]

They did blame iran it was obvious because the type of gas used was a cyanide-based agent only used by the Iranians (the Iraqis only used mustard gasses...which they only used on military targets, specifically Irania militia human wave attacks).

This is public information, the CIA&#39;s official position was that Iraq couldn&#39;t possibly have been responsible...but what the CIA thinks about Iraq is often ignored for political gain by the administration in charge. They also concluded that Iran never intended to kill Kurdish civilians, they believed Iraqi troops were still in control of the city.

The findings of the CIA and the US Army War College were organized in a final unclassified report that can be found here:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/war/docs/3203/

The One of the (now retired) CIA agents who co-authored this report wrote a short article for the New York Times, which can be found in a reprint here:
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-08.htm

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Hehe Tragic clown is funny :D

i bet capitalist lawyer feels stooopid.


Brazil&#39;s police is bad.

I remember hearing about some big conference that happened in Brazil, like a social forum or somthing. And the government made these death squad, off duty police, have a massive "cleaning spree" to get rid of all the street children.

[Leo]

They did blame iran it was obvious because the type of gas used was a cyanide-based agent only used by the Iranians (the Iraqis only used mustard gasses...which they only used on military targets, specifically Irania militia human wave attacks).

This is public information, the CIA&#39;s official position was that Iraq couldn&#39;t possibly have been responsible...but what the CIA thinks about Iraq is often ignored for political gain by the administration in charge. They also concluded that Iran never intended to kill Kurdish civilians, they believed Iraqi troops were still in control of the city.

The findings of the CIA and the US Army War College were organized in a final unclassified report that can be found here:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/war/docs/3203/

The One of the (now retired) CIA agents who co-authored this report wrote a short article for the New York Times, which can be found in a reprint here:
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-08.htm

Middle East is a land of conspiracy, nothing would actually surprise me there. American Government rarely seems to understand the inner conflict there and CIA rarely writes the truth. When the poison gas attacks occured in Halabja, the city was controlled by Islamic Movement of Kurdistan and PUK which was supported by all means, including soldiers by the Iranian government (Those soldiers are the reason behind Pelletiere considering this an act of war, but their numbers were not that great). The city was taken with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard itself so Iranians knew who was in charge: they were. It was considered a land &#39;gained&#39; for the Iranians. They were in controll, they had no reason to bomb Halabja. Iraq however had reasons to bomb the city. What was used in the bomb was Mustard Gas, and the nerve agents SARIN, TABUN and VX. Cyanide was not used by itself, but TABUN agent was impure and it released the cynadine compund it had.

While preparing their chemical coctail, the Iraqi government knew exactly what it was going to do. It might have been a part of their chemichal test program. Handbooks of doctors in the Iraqi military had medical knowledge of effects of chemichal weapons.

Now, US government doesn&#39;t really want to go deep down this issue, and the CIA definately doesn&#39;t want to go deep down this issue. They want to &#39;close it up&#39; quickly so I suspect the source of those gasses is the US itself or one of its close allies much more directly then we tend to think. No conspiracy is too surprising for the middle east.

I actually lived very close to Iraq for the most of my life, and in a month I will return to where I lived before, so I am kind of an expert about middle east. I would advice westerners not to support any government in the middle east. Some of them might be looking good and &#39;anti-imperialist&#39; and all that from the west, but they are all the same disgusting shit when you get close.

[TC]

Uh huh. You&#39;re making claims out of thin air and i&#39;m siting credible sources, the New York Times and an Army War College/CIA report. Care to reference anything?

[Leo]

http://www.terrorismcentral.com/Library/Te...s/ChemIraq.html (http://www.terrorismcentral.com/Library/Teasers/ChemIraq.html)

[Intifada]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 03:22 AM
Hehe Tragic clown is funny :D

i bet capitalist lawyer feels stooopid.
Capitalist Lawyer is stupid.

TragicClown completely owned his ass.

[Vladislav]

What was the point of this Capitalist Lawyer?

[Capitalist Lawyer]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 01:07 AM
No, and neither has Iraq. Iraq never had biological weapons, in fact the US was the only country in history to use biological warefare (which it did in the Korean war), and anthrax has never been successfully weaponized, not by Iraq, not by terrorists, not by any other government. While Iraq did have chemical weapons (primitive mustard gas, hardly a &#39;WMD&#39;) it has never used them on its own people, it is well documented by the CIA and US Army War College reports that the often referenced gassing of the Kurds at Halabja was done by the invading Iranian army, not the Iraqi government. (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/saddam/2004/1222halabja.htm)


Al Jazeera is your source for this?

And please inform us all when and where US forces used chemical weps in Korea.

I was unaware of the reports of the police &#39;death squads&#39; in Brazil in the past. Thank you for the correction.

And there is another famous saying: All I know is what i read in the newspapers.

Of course there should have been more to that quote: "When I have the time."

Regarding your "claim" that Iraq never has had WMDs, what ever happended to all those charges that the US Government SUPPLIED and ARMED Iraq with such weapons?

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 24 2006, 05:19 PM
Regarding your "claim" that Iraq never has had WMDs, what ever happended to all those charges that the US Government SUPPLIED and ARMED Iraq with such weapons?
I thought TC was talking about the difference between biological weapons and chemical weapons once possessed by Iraq, not now of course because American forces never hand anything.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 02:27 PM

Has Brazil threatened any of its neighbors (with wiping them off the face of the earth)?


Yes, Paraguay,


Has Brazil historically funded terrorist activities?

Yes, the FARC, which it naturally doesn&#39;t regard as terrorist.


Has Brazil prevented IAEA inspectors from monitoring its nuclear facilities?

Uh, yes, Brazil had an advanced nuclear weapons program in the 1980s during the junta.


Has Brazil been running a secret nuke program for some 20 years and not reporting it to the IAEA?

again, had one one in the 80s, and by definition, if a nuke program was a state secret, you&#39;d not know about it.

---------------------------
Since when has Brazil been funding the FARC? Never heard of this.

And this thread is ridiculous. What are you trying to say? Is this a joke? It&#39;s sure a lame joke.

Had we wanted to annex Paraguay, we totally could have. We didn&#39;t do it because we didn&#39;t want to. They lost miserably.

Esquadrao da Morte or not... thousands of Brazilian dissidents were killed by the military regime. But clearly this is a moot point, since a US invasion (1) wouldn&#39;t be against it&#39;s own puppet government and (2) the military government no longer exists in Brazil.

[CCCPneubauten]

Since when has Brazil been funding the FARC? Never heard of this.


I&#39;m not too sure about this myself, but from what I&#39;ve read a lot the cocaine that FARC sells is made in the Amazon jungle of Brazil.

I&#39;m not sure if anyone knows if any country funds FARC, hell, look at this (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1619482/posts) article, I guess the Swiss are in on it too&#33; :huh:

I don&#39;t think the FARC gets direct funding from any country, but Brazil might turns it&#39;s head if a bribe were to come its way.

[encephalon]

And please inform us all when and where US forces used chemical weps in Korea.

umm... napalm??? It was also used in vietnam.. remember that little war?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/TrangBang.jpg
Nick Ut / The Associated Press

What world are you living in?

What&#39;s great about napalm is that it&#39;s a chemical weapon and also an incendiary&#33;

[Capitalist Lawyer]

The Vietnamese government INVITED the US government&#39;s assistance. There was a cold war going on, in case you didn&#39;t notice at the time. (Needless to say you were likely cheering for the otherside anyway.) Iraq, prior to the &#39;91 Gulf War attacked a US ally, Kuwait, and the US came to thier defense. Panama&#39;s Noriega&#39;s regime was using his stategic position (with the canal) to ensure illicit drugs had an easy conduit from Columbia to the US shores. He was certainly a threat to the US national interest and free trade. Grenada had US citizens attending medical schools on the island that had been taken over by Stalinists. When they returned to US soil, what did they do? They got on their knees and kissed US soil.

[encephalon]

The Vietnamese government INVITED the US government&#39;s assistance. There was a cold war going on, in case you didn&#39;t notice at the time. (Needless to say you were likely cheering for the otherside anyway.)


There was nothing cold about the cold war, especially when the US napalmed little kids. And I thought the country in question was Korea? I suppose, just like the vietnamese people, koreans invited the US as well?

"Sure, come on over and melt the skin of our children to the road. We&#39;ll owe you one"

[fernando]

If I remember correctly the US really joined the war after they staged an attack on their own ship, blaming the North Vietnamese.

The South Vietnamese puppet government might have invited the US, the South Vietnamese population were put into concentrationcamps (history books call them "closed communities" but lets face it, thats just a nice word for concentrationcamps) in order to prevent them from siding with their North Vietnamese comrades.

[CCCPneubauten]

Capitalist Lawyer I think you are forgeting a little group called the Viet-Cong.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 02:33 PM

Since when has Brazil been funding the FARC? Never heard of this.


I&#39;m not too sure about this myself, but from what I&#39;ve read a lot the cocaine that FARC sells is made in the Amazon jungle of Brazil.

I&#39;m not sure if anyone knows if any country funds FARC, hell, look at this (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1619482/posts) article, I guess the Swiss are in on it too&#33; :huh:

I don&#39;t think the FARC gets direct funding from any country, but Brazil might turns it&#39;s head if a bribe were to come its way.
Cocaine is most certainly not grown in the amazon
look it up
it&#39;s not

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 02:33 PM

Since when has Brazil been funding the FARC? Never heard of this.


I&#39;m not too sure about this myself, but from what I&#39;ve read a lot the cocaine that FARC sells is made in the Amazon jungle of Brazil.

I&#39;m not sure if anyone knows if any country funds FARC, hell, look at this (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1619482/posts) article, I guess the Swiss are in on it too&#33; :huh:

I don&#39;t think the FARC gets direct funding from any country, but Brazil might turns it&#39;s head if a bribe were to come its way.
Cocaine is most certainly grown in the moutaisn and not in the amazon

[CCCPneubauten]

It can be farmed in one country and processed in the next, i.e the deep Amazon jungle.

[CCCPneubauten]

Brazilian druglord Fernandinho Beira-Mar was captured in Colombia on April 20, 2001 while in the company of FARC-EP guerrillas. Colombian and Brazilian authorities have claimed that this constitutes proof of further cooperation between the FARC-EP and the druglord based on the exchange of weapons for cocaine, though Fernandinho himself and the FARC-EP have denied this. FARC itself has claimed that in their areas of influence the growth of coca plants (while this has been an enduring tradition, in one form or another, in the Colombian countryside by some of the indigenous communities for centuries, it had never reached its contemporary levels of plantation) by farmers would be taxed on the same basis as any other crop, even though there would be higher cash profits stemming from coca production and exportation.

Brazil has been involved with FARC, no doubt. Be it the government or just some drug lord.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 06:44 AM
It can be farmed in one country and processed in the next, i.e the deep Amazon jungle.
But it&#39;s grown in moutains... there are no moutains in the Brazilian Amazon.

And any connection between Brazilian civilians and the FARC would be no grounds upon which to invade Brazil, would it? The US also has connections to the FARC, you know? They buy lots of coke.

[Capitalist Lawyer]

Still waiting for intelligent responses to my assertions. You&#39;re not going to leave me hanging are you?



Al Jazeera is your source for this?

And please inform us all when and where US forces used chemical weps in Korea.

I was unaware of the reports of the police &#39;death squads&#39; in Brazil in the past. Thank you for the correction.

And there is another famous saying: All I know is what i read in the newspapers.

Of course there should have been more to that quote: "When I have the time."

Regarding your "claim" that Iraq never has had WMDs, what ever happended to all those charges that the US Government SUPPLIED and ARMED Iraq with such weapons?


The Vietnamese government INVITED the US government&#39;s assistance. There was a cold war going on, in case you didn&#39;t notice at the time. (Needless to say you were likely cheering for the otherside anyway.) Iraq, prior to the &#39;91 Gulf War attacked a US ally, Kuwait, and the US came to thier defense.

Panama&#39;s Noriega&#39;s regime was using his stategic position (with the canal) to ensure illicit drugs had an easy conduit from Columbia to the US shores. He was certainly a threat to the US national interest and free trade. Grenada had US citizens attending medical schools on the island that had been taken over by Stalinists. When they returned to US soil, what did they do? They got on their knees and kissed US soil.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Trust me, none of us are defending US military puppet Noriega.

And there&#39;s pretty much nothing that you can say to redeem the United States&#39;s foreign policy actions durring the cold war. You installed dozens of military and fascist anti-communist regimes, all of which persecuted civilians and many of which killed thousands of leftists and activists. Vietnam was a total failure in both the supposed goal of advancing freedom (because you killed thousands of civilians and devasted a country) and in quelling communism (because you didn&#39;t). The Gulf War may have otherwise been a fair defense of an ally... but the true reason why you guys fought that war was to secure an American military foothold in the Middle East for the purposes of protecting American private investments.