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bloody_capitalist_sham
23rd May 2006, 00:59
I recently encountered "long wave theory" in a book about Globalisation.

It was "attempting" to refute globalisation. And i was reading it for an essay i was writing.

Its called "Globalization: Neoliberal Challenge, Radical Responses"

However, a chapter grabbed me, as it sounded kinda marxist. Called "long waves of capitalist development"

Here is a brief extract for us to talk about ;)


"Marx’s analysis of capital’s laws of motion in Das Kapital
still seems surprisingly contemporary, 4 but he did not develop
a complete theory of crisis. Over the course of time economists
identifying themselves as Marxist have developed four
basic explanations for economic cycles: 5

Falling rate of exploitation: Since unemployment declines in
expansive phases, the workers’ movement is better situated to
demand better conditions of labour. For this reason profits
fall relative to variable capital (wages).

Disproportionality: Balanced economic growth requires that
the demand for different sorts of goods grow in a proportional
way. Since individual employers make their own decisions
without any coordination, this is rarely the case.

Underconsumption: Because employers try to keep wages as
low as possible, a gap opens between productive capacity and
effective demand for consumer goods (Department II). This
lag in demand has effects in its turn on the demand for means
of production (Department I).

Overaccumulation: Increasing investment leads to a lower
rate of return on invested capital, since invested constant
capital grows more quickly than the rate of exploitation.
In reality, concrete analysis of short-term cycles shows that
different combinations of these factors are generally at work.
Monocausal explanations seldom do justice to reality."

Now the whole talking about cycles thing put me off a little, because it reminded me of dialectics. Which i later found out was the case.

But to be honest, the above extract sounds coherent enough.


There are also four basic reasons given for why "long waves" occur.

Again they sound pretty reasonable.


1. The capital investment theory, associated with
Kondratiev himself, posits that long waves result from extensive
investments in and depreciation of capital goods used
over long periods of time, such as railways, canals and factories.
During an economic boom over-investment in capital
goods takes place, leading to a decline in which superfluous
capital is written off. This devaluation of capital gives rise to
the possibility of a new boom.

2. The capitalist crisis theory, associated with Leon
Trotsky, maintains that long waves are a product of the
tendential fall in the rate of profit described by the earliest,
classical political economists. According to this theory, long
waves are above all a sign of an increase in constant capital,
and a long recessive phase does not automatically, that is
endogenously, lead to a new expansive phase. A watershed of
this kind is the result of exogenous factors – such as the
discovery of a new naturalresource, an extension of the
market or a historicaldefeat for the workers’ movement –
with the result that long-term conditions become more
favourable for accumulation. The rise in the rate of profit
makes a new expansive phase possible, but a new decline
inevitably follows.

3. The innovation theory, associated with Joseph
Schumpeter, posits that long waves are the result of clusters
of innovations at specific moments and in specific economic
sectors. These clusters of mutually interlinked innovations
create a new leading sector in the economy, which grows
quickly and leads to a new upturn. During this expansive
phase few new radical innovations take place, since investment
in existing technology yields good profits. After a time,
however, the innovations that opened the expansion bring in
declining returns, cooling off the economy and ultimately
leading to a decline. In this phase it becomes attractive once
more to innovate, but that does not happen from one moment
to the next. This is probably the approach with the most
support among long-wave theorists.

4. The war theory, associated with a group of largely
European scholars, including Dupriez, maintains that long
waves are the result of – or closely connected to – major wars.
The consequences of periodic major wars – particularly inflation
– lead to recurring shocks in the world economy and
cause long waves. A group of monetarist economists, related
in some ways to the war theorists, developed in the discussion’s
initial stage a parallel theory, in which not war but gold
production influences prices. In both theoretical variants long
waves are above all a monetary phenomenon. This school has
not played any role in the economic discussion since the
1950s, although it has in political and sociological debates.



So, what up with "long waves"? thumbs up or down?

PS, i can give more extracts if needed.

ComradeRed
24th May 2006, 03:50
It has to do with nonlinear feedback and improvement, so as far as the four causes, two are immediately identified as feasible (the improvement of the means of production and falling rates of profit).

The changes in output of one industry affects others, and this in turn affects others, and so on. It's a ripple effect.

But this stacks, so what happens previously stacks on top of what is happening. This is, of course, a weighted series.

It is NOT chaotic! This I must stress, there are no attractors whatsoever!

The last war theory is rather odd, though I think it needs more investigation; the reason it's odd is because monetarists of all people are thinking about it!

I think, however, the author failed in trying to prove his thesis; he proved the opposite from what little I've read of it (a page :P).

Globalization "disproven"? Why, air disproven! The two have the same logic to them, disprove what is right in front of your eyes! :lol:

bloody_capitalist_sham
24th May 2006, 04:11
So, you think that "long waves" are worth further investigation?

Also, would this have to only apply to individual nations, and then see what nations will have economic slumps or can it be seen globally?

Also, if long waves are true, when a nations economy goes into recession (like the US) and it turns into a global recession, is that because they have all either "improved the means of production" / "profit has fallen" or does it just need that to happen in a large economic power due to globalization?

Cheers comradeRed, i really hoped somone would respond :)

ComradeRed
24th May 2006, 04:21
So, you think that "long waves" are worth further investigation? It's sorta like UFO investigations: nothing will come of it, thought it sounds "interesting" ;)



Also, would this have to only apply to individual nations, and then see what nations will have economic slumps or can it be seen globally? Well, a slump in one nation affects all other nations; if the output of oil in the Middle East decreases, that affects the prices of commodities in the U$ and Europe.

This affects the rest of the world too.

It's a ripple effect.



Also, if long waves are true, when a nations economy goes into recession (like the US) and it turns into a global recession, is that because they have all either "improved the means of production" / "profit has fallen" or does it just need that to happen in a large economic power due to globalization?It makes more sense to say that there was an imporvement in the means of production or the rate of profit has fallen since these are mathematically and empirically logical.

The "wave" theory is an attempt, in my opinion, to apply wave mechanics (i.e. quantum mechanics) to economics.

Ultimately, it is extremely difficult to prove that anything will happen in the long run; there are basics that can be proven like the rate of profit will fall, etc. But that's the peak of specificity ;)

That is not, however, a window to introduce uncertainty!