Goodbye Periods!

[coda]

This should put women on a more equal footing.


With New Mind-Set, New Contraceptives, Menstruation Is Fast Becoming Optional
By LINDA A. JOHNSON
Associated Press Writer
(AP) 12:23:55 PM (ET), Sunday, May 21, 2006 (TRENTON, N.J.)
For young women with a world of choices, even that monthly curse, the menstrual period, is optional.

Thanks to birth control pills and other hormonal contraceptives, a growing number of women are taking the path chosen by 22-year-old Stephanie Sardinha.

She hasn't had a period since she was 17.

"It's really one of the best things I've ever done," she says.

A college student and retail worker in Lisbon Falls, Maine, Sardinha uses Nuvaring, a vaginal contraceptive ring. After the hormones run out in three weeks, she replaces the ring right away instead of following instructions to leave the ring out for a week to allow bleeding. She says it has been great for her marriage, preventing monthly crankiness and improving her sex life.

"I would never go back," said Sardinha, who got the idea from her aunt, a nurse practitioner.

Using the pill or other contraceptives to block periods is becoming more popular, particularly among young women and those entering menopause, doctors say.

"I have a ton of young girls in college who are doing this," says Dr. Mindy Wiser-Estin, a gynecologist in Little Silver, N.J., who did it herself for years. "There's no reason you need a period."

Such medical jury-rigging soon will be unnecessary. Already, the Seasonale birth control pill limits periods to four a year. The first continuous-use birth control pill, Lybrel, likely will soon be on the U.S. market and drug companies are lining up other ways to limit or eliminate the period.

Most doctors say they don't think suppressing menstruation is riskier than regular long-term birth control use, and one survey found a majority have prescribed contraception to prevent periods. Women have been using the pill for nearly half a century without significant problems, but some doctors want more research on long-term use.

The new methods should be popular. A non-scientific Web survey for the Association of Reproductive Health Professionals found at least two-thirds of respondents are bothered by fatigue, heavy bleeding, "really bad cramps" and even anger. Nearly half said they would like to have no period at all or decide when to have one.

For some women, periods can cause debilitating pain and more serious problems.

Two recent national surveys found about 1 in 5 women have used oral contraceptives to stop or skip their period.

"If you're choosing contraception, then there's not a lot of point to having periods," says Dr. Leslie Miller, a University of Washington-Seattle researcher and associate professor of obstetrics and gynecology whose Web site, noperiod.com, explains the option. She points out women on hormonal contraception don't have real periods anyway, just withdrawal bleeding during the break from the hormone progestin.

According to Miller, modern women endure up to nine times more periods than their great-grandmothers, who began menstruating later, married young and naturally suppressed periods for years while they were pregnant or breast-feeding. Today's women may have about 450 periods.

Still, surveys also show most women consider monthly periods normal. Small wonder: Girls learn early on that menstruation is a sign of fertility and femininity, making its onset an eagerly awaited rite of passage.

The period is "way over-romanticized," says Linda Gordon, a New York University professor specializing in women's history and the history of sexuality.

"It doesn't take long for women to go from being excited about having a period to feeling it's a pain in the neck," said Gordon, author of "The Moral Property of Women: A History of Birth Control Politics in America."

She says caution is needed because there's not enough data on long-term consequences of using hormones continuously. Gordon notes menopausal women for years were told that hormone drugs would keep them young _ until research uncovered unexpected risks.

"People should proceed very cautiously," she says.

Today's birth control pills contain far less estrogen and progestin than those two generations ago, but still increase the risk of heart attack, stroke and blood clots. The pill should not be used by women who have had those conditions, unexplained vaginal bleeding or certain cancers, or if they are smokers over 35.

But there are benefits from taking oral contraceptives too, such as a lower risk of ovarian and endometrial cancer, osteoporosis and pelvic inflammatory disease. And forgoing periods means no premenstrual syndrome and a lower risk of anemia and migraines, says Dr. Sheldon Segal, co-author of "Is Menstruation Obsolete?" Segal has been involved in research for several contraceptives.

Almost since the first pill arrived in 1960, women have manipulated birth control to skip periods for events such as a wedding, vacation or sports competition. Female doctors and nurses were among the first to block menstruation long-term to suit their schedules, said Susan Wysocki, head of the National Association of Nurse Practitioners in Women's Health.

"They were then more comfortable recommending it to their patients," said Wysocki, who uses a vaginal ring to prevent menstruation.

The idea gained momentum after Barr Pharmaceuticals launched Seasonale in November 2003. It's a standard birth control pill taken for 12 weeks, with a break for withdrawal bleeding every three months. Amid wide acceptance by doctors, sales shot up 62 percent last year, to $110 million.

Publicity for Seasonale made women wonder, if just four periods a year are OK, why have any at all?

Users of Pfizer Inc.'s Depo-Provera, a progestin-only contraceptive shot lasting three months, usually are period-free after a year or two. There's now a generic version, but the drug can thin bones.

And many women have been getting extra prescriptions so they could continuously stay on birth control pills, the Ortho Evra patch or the vaginal ring, rather than bleeding every fourth week. That schedule was set by the original birth control designers to mimic normal menstrual cycles. But the extra prescriptions have led to insurance company hassles.

"What Seasonale did is get rid of that nuisance," says Dr. Peter McGovern of University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey.

New extended-cycle contraceptives will do the same. Wyeth is hoping by late June to get Food and Drug Administration approval to sell Lybrel, its low-dose, continuous birth control pill; approval also is pending in Canada and Europe.

Also in June, FDA should decide whether to approve Implanon, a single-rod, three-year contraceptive implanted in the upper arm that maker Organon USA has been selling it in Europe for a decade.

Berlex Inc. is developing its own birth control pill for menstrual suppression.

Barr, aiming to be a leader in extended contraception, last November bought the maker of ParaGard, an intrauterine device that blocks periods in some women. Barr's new product Seasonique, a successor to Seasonale, likely will get federal approval at week's end.

Dr. Patricia Sulak, who researches extended contraception at Texas A&M College of Medicine, applauds this new trend. The doses in standard pills are now so low, she said, that having seven days off them raises the risk of pregnancy.

"This redesign is way overdue," she says. "It's going to be the demise of 21-7."

___

On the Net:

Dr. Leslie Miller's site: http://www.noperiod.com

Association of Reproductive Health Professionals: http://www.arhp.org/

[chimx]

She says caution is needed because there's not enough data on long-term consequences of using hormones continuously

yeah, no kidding! but if you want to be a guinea pig, than knock yourself out. :)

[VermontLeft]

sounds good to me! :)

making the human body serve our needs rather than the other way around is the definition of progress.

if we can make periods less common or less ANNOYING :angry: :angry: i vote YES big time.

sure the religious nuts dont like ther idea of women having control over their own body, but then they never do. still though this is probly inevitable and is just another step in the direction of societal progress and equalization.

I guess Marx was right and environment defines being! ;)

[bezdomni]

Could psychological problems arise from the high amounts of hormones that the pill causes? I ask because I know a few people who take the pill, and their personalities have changed quite a bit since they started taking it. They've become more moody, frequently depressed and pretty irritable.

[Red Polak]

Sounds awesome! :D


BUT: I can't imagine that there wouldn't be side effects of completely missing periods for several years. I think more research is definitely needed before lots of people jump on this.

[RevMARKSman]

This looks cool, but I'd rather just get the whole mess taken out of my body. Also my parents obviously wouldn't approve of birth control possession by me, even if it was only for blocking periods.

[Red Polak]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 12:56 AM
This looks cool, but I'd rather just get the whole mess taken out of my body. Also my parents obviously wouldn't approve of birth control possession by me, even if it was only for blocking periods.
Really? damn that's strict parents.

Religious types I presume?

[RevMARKSman]

My dad is religious, but I'm 11 dangit! I mean what parent would approve of an 11-y/o kid taking contraceptives? They'd start to get suspicious (they wouldn't need to but they would be)...

[LoneRed]

I do think there are side effects, well thats what ive heard from females who talk about long term use of products like those

[coda]

Planned Parenthood Seeks New Customers With Plush, Quick-Service Clinic in Minnesota

By MARTIGA LOHN
Associated Press Writer
(AP) 08:11:14 PM (ET), Sunday, May 21, 2006 (WOODBURY, Minn.)

Shoppers come to this upscale brick strip mall to pick up bouquets of cookies decorated like soccer players, or $39.99 bottles of Chateauneuf du Pape. Soon, they'll be able to get emergency contraception, too.

Planned Parenthood wants to expand its services to more areas, and the organization's leaders hope a plush fast-service clinic coming to this well-heeled St. Paul suburb next month will attract a new group of women who value convenience and can afford to pay full price.

It could be to reproductive health care what companies like MinuteClinic and RediClinic are to strep tests and ear infections. Planned Parenthood is a nonprofit, but its leaders hope the new clinic will make enough money to help subsidize the rest of its operations.

Sister affiliates in states including California, Massachusetts, Illinois, Iowa, Ohio and Alabama have opened 87 express clinics in the last two years, and more are in the works. But Sarah Stoesz, president and chief executive officer of Planned Parenthood Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, said this one will take the focus on the customer to a new level.

"Ours will have a very different look and feel," Stoesz said. "We're going to the women where they spend their lives, to help them solve some of the problems in their lives."

The clinic will not perform abortions. Instead, lotions, essential oils and decorative carrying cases for pills and condoms will beckon shoppers inside, where they can also get oral contraceptives, pregnancy tests and screening for HIV, chlamydia and gonorrhea _ all in about 20 minutes. If customers are interested, the clinic may add massages and other spa services later, spokeswoman Marta Coursey said.

The convenience factor _ combined with profitable body products _ could make it work, said Bruce Kelley, a senior consultant with Watson Wyatt Worldwide, a benefits consulting firm. He said fast clinics in pharmacies and supermarkets are catching on and will keep multiplying.

"I think it's a good idea. For one, since our public health system has really gone downhill, we certainly have a need for that education, provision of birth control and treatment of sexually transmitted diseases," Kelley said. "It's certainly worth a try."

Tucked between a Wells Fargo financial office and a Mexican restaurant, the 1,250-square-foot PLAN Planned Parenthood Express Care clinic will be open seven days a week.

But it won't take patients on subsidized health plans if they can't pay out of pocket. Those customers can visit one of Planned Parenthood's 22 existing clinics in Minnesota, which operate on a sliding scale based on the patient's income.

As federal and state aid for family planning services declines, Stoesz said Planned Parenthood will be able to expand only through clinics that pay for themselves. Success in Woodbury could lead to express clinics in other locations, she added.

The Express Care clinic will be staffed by a nurse practitioner and a receptionist, said Dr. Carol Ball, the medical director for Planned Parenthood clinics in Minnesota and the Dakotas. Patients stay clothed, and there won't be any pelvic exams. Ball said the exams aren't needed for the services provided there.

Stoesz and her colleagues picked Woodbury because it has a large population of younger women, and the nearest Planned Parenthood clinic is about a 20-minutes drive away, not counting traffic. Woodbury's 1999 median family income was nearly $85,000, well above national and state averages.

The Woodbury clinic is designed to be a cut above even the nicest Planned Parenthood express clinics _ like the one in Somerville, Mass., near Boston and Harvard University. That one sits in a storefront across a plaza from a Starbucks, amid a shopping area near a major transit line.

"It's very fresh, upbeat _ people getting being responsible, doing their shopping, getting the Starbucks and going in and getting their contraception," said Dianne Luby, who heads the Planned Parenthood League of Massachusetts. Luby said the clinic should break even within 18 months.

Luby said anti-abortion protesters showed up the day the clinic opened in February, but they haven't returned. Abortion isn't among the services provided at either clinic.

But that doesn't deter Scott Fischbach, who heads the anti-abortion group Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life, from speaking out against it. He's opposed because the clinic will refer patients for abortions.

"Where Planned Parenthood goes, you're going to find abortion," Fischbach said. "They're a failure because they're addicted to abortion."

Stoesz said abortion opponents should welcome the clinic.

"This doesn't have anything to do with abortion, except to the extent that it has to do with reducing abortion rates," she said. "Our new clinic will allow us to provide contraception and basic health care services to many more women, and that will reduce the rate of unintended pregnancy, which will reduce the rate of abortion."

___

On the Net:

http://www.ppmns.org/

[pandora]

Western mediciene is so meat oriented it is ridiculous, if they can't see the need for something they get rid of it.

TRUST ME a million years of evolution didn't go wrong ;)

Your moon as midwives call it is a flush for your uterus it also allows a woman's body to release extra toxins.

We take in more toxins because we naturally have a greater percentage of fat cells, aka curves. Fat cells keep more toxins. Your moon acts as a natural dieretic pulling all the toxins and excess water from the body and then flushing it out, which is why you bloat.

For more information about the natural HEALING cycles in the female, and male body, contact a natureopath or a midwife, midwives have been working with female genitalia many moons longer than Western scientists, and can tell you losing this flushing period could easily result in a stronger build up in toxins in the body. As well as mixing up your hormone cycles--which also controls the amount of oil in your skin, and water in your tissues as well as your moods.

Bottom line, scary idea. Especially with women's prone nature to uterine cancer. Let the body flush itself out as often as possible. It is the healthiest thing to do for your uterine health.

[chimx]

pandora: i agree completely! the uterus wasn't made to hold that goopy stuff in for years on end. i really don't think it is healthy to be downing your birth control to skip your periods without seeing some long-term studies on the issue first, despite the temptation... :)

[coda]

Birth control pills suppress ovulation to begin with --- therefore there is no "stuff"-- (unfertilized egg) to get rid of.

[TC]

I'm surprized that the article didn't bring it up, but actually the entire reason for including the seven placebo pills in birth control packets (which causes progesterone-withdrawl induced bleeding; not a natural period) was actually entirely politically not medically motivated.

The inventors of the birth control pills were (male) catholics who wanted to make sure that the catholic church approved it for its members. Since the catholics allow for one form of birth control, the rhythm method (officially because its "naturally family planning", unofficially because it doesn't work very well and means you can't have sex most of the time), they wanted to make it appear that the birth control pill was a "natural birth control" that simply enhanced the effectiveness of the rhythm method.

"Facing opposition from the Catholic Church, which forbids any form of birth control other than abstinence or "the rhythm method," Rock and his partners argued that with short-term use of the Pill, a woman could regulate her cycles and therefore be more successful using the rhythm method. In order to replicate a woman's cycle most authentically, Rock and Pincus decided the Pill should be taken over a four-week cycle (three weeks on the hormone cocktail, one week on a placebo, or sugar pill), so that when the woman stopped taking the Pill, she would menstruate. According to research, there was and is no medical reason for this, but instead, a cultural one. Despite Rock's best efforts, though, the Catholic Church never recognized the Pill as an acceptable birth control method for its congregates, declaring it "artificial." "

this can be found here http://citypaper.net/articles/2003-08-14/cover.shtml slightly more than halfway down the page


There is simply no good reason to induce periods while on the pill as it doesn't even function in the way a natural period does, its just for appearence...for the catholics :-p.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

pandora, i have to say i'm a little weirded out by your post. First you post this scary anti-sex article on the descrimination forum and now you want to appeal to traditionalist psudo-science to limit womens' choices over their bodies? Seriously, its scary how well radical "feminism" and christian fundementalism tend to use different rhetoric to arrive at the same political positions.

Attempts to preserve "the natural order of things" at the expense of personal comfort and convenience are reactionary.


Western mediciene is so meat oriented it is ridiculous, if they can't see the need for something they get rid of it.

TRUST ME a million years of evolution didn't go wrong

Oh please. You're appealing to a naturalistic fallacy that whats natural is somehow right. A million years of evolution didn't produce humans to live to 80 on average or to go through their lives with most of their teeth intact either. Its pretty safe to say that no one living in modern society is anything resembling the natural result of 'a million years of evolution', people have manipulated their diet and health care and sanitiation. As the origional article pointed out, a million years of evolution didn't result in people having anywhere close to as many periods as they do today, modern diets, pregnancy rates, and social standards are responsible for that.

Men would naturally get erectile dysfunction by the time they're 40, how come the funny radical feminists and the christians don't seem to have a problem with them using modern medicine to prevent their sex organs from doing things they don't like? Why should women have to put up with it and men don't?


Your moon as midwives call it is a flush for your uterus it also allows a woman's body to release extra toxins.

We take in more toxins because we naturally have a greater percentage of fat cells, aka curves. Fat cells keep more toxins. Your moon acts as a natural dieretic pulling all the toxins and excess water from the body and then flushing it out, which is why you bloat.

Lol this is entirely untrue. First of all, just think about how silly this idea is. How is it that heavier men, prepubescent girls, pregnant women, and middle aged women, somehow manage to do just fine without menstruating? Why aren't all of the "extra toxins" messing them up lol.

What you're claiming about bloat is just incorrect. Bloating isn't caused by "pulling all the toxins" out of fat cells, its because the hormone changes causes fluid retention; its bringing more water in than is going out, not the other way around as you're suggesting. If what you were saying were mechanically true, then you wouldn't see any actual weight gain when you feel bloated since the bloat would just be the result of moving water around rather than taking more water in, which is obviously not the case.


For more information about the natural HEALING cycles in the female, and male body, contact a natureopath or a midwife, midwives have been working with female genitalia many moons longer than Western scientists, and can tell you losing this flushing period could easily result in a stronger build up in toxins in the body.

Oh, yah, and pre-scientific medieval "healing" did such a great job! :lol:


As well as mixing up your hormone cycles--which also controls the amount of oil in your skin, and water in your tissues as well as your moods.

Yah but it mixes up all of those things in a positive way...like better skin, less excess water, less effect on moods.


. Especially with women's prone nature to uterine cancer. Let the body flush itself out as often as possible. It is the healthiest thing to do for your uterine health.

Its funny you bring that up because birth control pills actually *reduce* the incidence of uterine cancer (as well as ovarian cancer), and in fact, the longer you're on birth control the less likely you are to get uterine cancer (http://www.yourdiseaserisk.harvard.edu/hccpquiz.pl?lang=english&func=show&quiz=uterine&page=risk_list).

And as Indigo pointed out, it only flushes out uterine lining thats caused by ovulation, so if you're on the pill you don't have stuff to get rid of to begin with...in fact the 'periods' that people have when they're on the pill aren't doing that anyways, they're just a symptom of progesterone withdrawl, which is why they're lighter and shorter than natural ones...so they don't serve that function anyways so you're not losing anything.

[TC]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 12:00 AM
My dad is religious, but I'm 11 dangit! I mean what parent would approve of an 11-y/o kid taking contraceptives? They'd start to get suspicious (they wouldn't need to but they would be)...
Some contraceptives are primarily prescribed to treat acne although they work the same way as all of the other ones; you could always say you wanted it for that...

[eyedrop]

Isn't this usual already? Maybe not for so long as the woman in the article, but I find very few in my social circles that cares to have their period more than a few times a year. Period sucks so I can understand them and would have done the excact same thing myself.

But maybe it's not so usual on thje other side of the pond.


Also in June, FDA should decide whether to approve Implanon, a single-rod, three-year contraceptive implanted in the upper arm that maker Organon USA has been selling it in Europe for a decade.


That sounded painful, I would much rather take take a contraceptive shot three times a year instead. Who wants a rod in their upper arm :(

[Brekisonphilous]

I think anything changing the NATURAL workings of the human body will eventually lead to negative side effects. Have fun being lab rats, participants.

[Dark Exodus]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 08:44 PM
I think anything changing the NATURAL workings of the human body will eventually lead to negative side effects. Have fun being lab rats, participants.
You cannot define natural like that.

Natural does not mean healthy (and vice versa), almost all medicines are "unnatural" remember.

[chimx]

TragicClown: thats interesting about the political motivation behind it. I wasn't aware of that, but I was always curious why they had the sugar pills...

as far as health stuff, i would like to hear about the long-term consequenses of not allowing your uterus to get rid of its lining with some degree of regularity.

[coda]

Some of you weren't paying attention during Health class! A woman does'nt need to shed her uterus lining unless she releases an egg which does not get fertilized that month. Birth control pills, the way they are NOW, interrupts that whole process so that an egg is not released at all during the time you're taking the pill. That's how the pill works. Really, this new pill is just getting rid of a lot of unneccessary bleeding for those who take it.

[MysticArcher]

I think anything changing the NATURAL workings of the human body will eventually lead to negative side effects. Have fun being lab rats, participants.

So you never take anti-biotics?

or aspirin?

or drink a caffeinated beverage?

all of those interefere with the "natural" workings of the human body, to one degree or another. I really don't understand how you can make an arguement that "no this is too far"

The long term consquences of course need to studied, but long term studies on humans can take whole lifetimes. In the mean time there seem to be no consquences and a number of benefits.


That sounded painful, I would much rather take take a contraceptive shot three times a year instead. Who wants a rod in their upper arm?

a cyborg? :lol:

[Brekisonphilous]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 01:29 AM

I think anything changing the NATURAL workings of the human body will eventually lead to negative side effects. Have fun being lab rats, participants.

So you never take anti-biotics?

or aspirin?

or drink a caffeinated beverage?

all of those interefere with the "natural" workings of the human body, to one degree or another. I really don't understand how you can make an arguement that "no this is too far"

The long term consquences of course need to studied, but long term studies on humans can take whole lifetimes. In the mean time there seem to be no consquences and a number of benefits.


Haven't had to take antibiotics in at least 4 years.

I never take aspirin

I drink lots of carbonated beverage. But what does this have to do with women discharging blood out of their vaginas?

I think you and I both know that that was completely irrelevant. Nothing of which you mentioned has to do with a natural process of the human body. combating infections caused by something from outside of the body is a lot different than stoping the menstruation cycle. If women want to pay for something that stops a process that all women grow up and do, then they can. I guess stopping a normal feminine cycle in the body at the expense of thinning the uterus is worth it to some people. But if they don't wan't to ever have a baby, or don't care that it could cause some kind of currently unknow side effect (as it is experimental), then why not?

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by Brekisonphilous
But if they don't wan't to ever have a baby, or don't care that it could cause some kind of currently unknow side effect (as it is experimental), then why not?

What are you talking about? Skipping the sugar pills is exactly the same as taking them in term of normal fertility; ie it returns soon after the pill is stopped in most people.

Secondly, the increase in hormone levels ingested because of this are relatively small, and aren't likely to cause any side effects greater than those already associated with hormonal contraception. My doctor even recommended that I skip the sugar pills if I wanted, or changed the number if I wanted to time my period.

In short, skipping periods does not make you a travesty of nature. Although the idea that it does is obviously still around- I mean- look at menopause and how culturally determined it is.

[Brekisonphilous]

Originally posted by Mujer Libre+May 23 2006, 08:08 AM--> (Mujer Libre @ May 23 2006, 08:08 AM)
Brekisonphilous
But if they don't wan't to ever have a baby, or don't care that it could cause some kind of currently unknow side effect (as it is experimental), then why not?

What are you talking about? Skipping the sugar pills is exactly the same as taking them in term of normal fertility; ie it returns soon after the pill is stopped in most people.

Secondly, the increase in hormone levels ingested because of this are relatively small, and aren't likely to cause any side effects greater than those already associated with hormonal contraception. My doctor even recommended that I skip the sugar pills if I wanted, or changed the number if I wanted to time my period.

In short, skipping periods does not make you a travesty of nature. Although the idea that it does is obviously still around- I mean- look at menopause and how culturally determined it is. [/b]
I was talking about the hormonal contraceptive, not the sugar pills.

[TC]

I drink lots of carbonated beverage.
:o

those carbonated caffinated beverages you drink don't change just any natural process of the human body, they change the way the central nervous system and brain works...sounds pretty dangerious, who knows what the long term effects could be. I guess stopping a normal human cycle in the body, at the expense of thinning the brain (hey, its about as plausible!) is worth it to some people just so they aren't tired in the morning and have those caffinated drinks. ^_^

-----------------------------------------------

If this was a topic on a drug or treatment that prevented hair loss in men, does anyone think it would be questioned as "stopping a normal masculine cycle in the body"? :lol: ...or for that matter...do you think any guys would be worrying about the long term side effects and possible cancer risk despite no known indication, or even stranger, suggesting some psudo science whereby the process of going bald provides some semi-mystical benefit to men (lol maybe it gets rid of toxins while getting rid of hair! lol).

[EwokUtopia]

6 billion is way too many. There should be alot less people in the world, otherwise we will fuck it over more than we already have. Birth control needs to be made much more accesible, and far more free. Abortion is sketchier, I dont support abortion, but I oppose laws against it, and abortion rates will naturally go down as the factors that make abortion sadly necissary go down as well (IE poverty, fast gogo career oriented lifestyles, suburbia, and limited access to birth control).
Abortion has an interesting history, its been around forever, but never became rampant untill the industrial age, and never became illegal until the same time. Enforcing that law is almost as ludacris as putting the death penalty on attempted suicide, and although I am not a big fan of abortion, I am even less of a fan of the consequences brought in by abortion legislation. I think most pro-choice people would rather see less need for abortion than more accesibility. an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. But this isnt my favourite issue to debate, as people get way too defensive about it (and with just cause!). Pro-life is scary though, I doubt I have ever met one who isnt there because of religious reasons. And the shock factors they use at their protests too! I hate the War in Iraq, but youd never catch me protesting it with a picture of a mangles Iraqi Baby (though I easily could). Thats just not a pleasant way to protest. Also, saying God is on their side is a low blow as well. Im not pro-choice, Im not pro-life, I just dont like abortion personally but even worse than making abortion rampant is making it illegal in a society that will recieve millions of abortions regardless of what the law says. Im anti-legislation, if I must have a title.
But I digress. My origional point being, who is responsible for all the worlds problems? people. We need less. 500 million seems a reasonable number. but it will take a long time to decline that far (hopefully at least), so people should just take it slow until then. Low infant mortlity rates should also equal low birth rates.

[chimx]

tc: i think baldness and menstration have slightly different stigmas surrounding them in our society. i understand what you are trying to say but i just don't think that correlation works.

i've heard they are going to be releasing a male birth control injection in the next few years. you get a shot in your testicles and you are infertile until you get another shot that cancels it out. i think that will have similar questions surrounding it, and i would be hesitant to be the first boy to sign up until i read some research on it.

[MysticArcher]

I think you and I both know that that was completely irrelevant. Nothing of which you mentioned has to do with a natural process of the human body.

No, quite the contrary, the things I listed are very relevant. You made your primitivist statement against things which effect "the natural workings of the human body". To me that inlcudes all the "natural" workings.

Or is a period a special case? Oh men can mess with their natural processes, but women must have periods. :rolleyes:

Caffeine does mess with "the natural workings of the human body". It acts to artificially increase epinephrine and norepinephrine levels. Which in turn increases the amount of sugar in the bloodstream.



But if they don't wan't to ever have a baby, or don't care that it could cause some kind of currently unknow side effect (as it is experimental), then why not?

No matter how you try to weigh it down with negative connotations people are still going to do it.

Though I'm glad to see you're not going to try to stop them.

[Brekisonphilous]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2006, 11:32 PM

I think you and I both know that that was completely irrelevant. Nothing of which you mentioned has to do with a natural process of the human body.

No, quite the contrary, the things I listed are very relevant. You made your primitivist statement against things which effect "the natural workings of the human body". To me that inlcudes all the "natural" workings.

Or is a period a special case? Oh men can mess with their natural processes, but women must have periods. :rolleyes:

Caffeine does mess with "the natural workings of the human body". It acts to artificially increase epinephrine and norepinephrine levels. Which in turn increases the amount of sugar in the bloodstream.



But if they don't wan't to ever have a baby, or don't care that it could cause some kind of currently unknow side effect (as it is experimental), then why not?

No matter how you try to weigh it down with negative connotations people are still going to do it.

Though I'm glad to see you're not going to try to stop them.
Noway am I going to try to stop them. That is none of my business. They can do anything they want with their bodies. But I certainly wouldn't want it done to myself is all that I am saying. If I were female, I could think differently but I am not so I don't.

But I don't drink pop (soda) to purposely control anything in my body. I drink it because I enjoy the flavour.

And women do the birth control because they enjoy the outcome.

But my Grandpa has also been drinking carbonated beverages his entire life and is now almost 80... while this drug is nowhere near that old, I have no evidence to argue the safety of this product. And that is my main point.

[Alexandria]

I am on the combination birth control pill (estrogen, progesterine) and only have a period every 3 months it's great, but as for no periods ever or every couple years? Um no.

Uterus need to be flushed every once in awhile, if you don't know why ask a doctor, girlfriend, mom.... I'm not going there :D

[Reuben]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 01:33 AM
Western mediciene is so meat oriented it is ridiculous, if they can't see the need for something they get rid of it.

TRUST ME a million years of evolution didn't go wrong ;)

Your moon as midwives call it is a flush for your uterus it also allows a woman's body to release extra toxins.

We take in more toxins because we naturally have a greater percentage of fat cells, aka curves. Fat cells keep more toxins. Your moon acts as a natural dieretic pulling all the toxins and excess water from the body and then flushing it out, which is why you bloat.

For more information about the natural HEALING cycles in the female, and male body, contact a natureopath or a midwife, midwives have been working with female genitalia many moons longer than Western scientists, and can tell you losing this flushing period could easily result in a stronger build up in toxins in the body. As well as mixing up your hormone cycles--which also controls the amount of oil in your skin, and water in your tissues as well as your moods.

Bottom line, scary idea. Especially with women's prone nature to uterine cancer. Let the body flush itself out as often as possible. It is the healthiest thing to do for your uterine health.
dunny i was reading the other baout how in early modern europe they believed that the period was about the woma's body ridding itself of toxis and other bad stuff. Needless to say this is utter bollocks

[VermontLeft]

I am on the combination birth control pill (estrogen, progesterine) and only have a period every 3 months it's great, but as for no periods ever or every couple years? Um no.

why not?

sounds great to me!


Uterus need to be flushed every once in awhile

no it doesnt.

like reuben said, its bullshit that the uterus "flushes toxins" or whatever. thats just midieval pseudoscience. women dont have any special "toxins" that men/girls/pregnant women dont have and theres no reason why we would.

how come no one else needs to "flush" their bodies?

i mean come on, its pretty obvious that periods are purely about reproduction and the reproductive cycle. so if your not interested in reproducing any time soon and your not one of these primativst freaks who thinks that "nature is best" (:rolleyes:) theres no reason not to make your life easier and get rid of periods!

that what science is about after all. Controlling our bodies so that we dictate nature, not the other way around.

plus theres some evidence that no perdios = better health (http://www.yourdiseaserisk.harvard.edu/hccpquiz.pl?lang=english&func=show&quiz=uterine&page=risk_list)!! :o

[Gura]

If a woman does not intend to get pregnant anytime soon, then there is no reason to have a period. Most people who are on the Pill are taking it for the purpose of preventing pregnancy.

[Ali.Cat]

No thank-you to no periods. It all sounds so creepy to me. Getting your period is an incredibly natural thing and should be celebrated by a woman instead of sneered at. I know I know, "why should we be celebrating something that causes sooo much annoyance?" - but one of the things that makes us women is the fact that we have the ability to give birth, among a number of other things (our ability to woo men by simply turning on a smile :P , our fantastic female features ie. breasts and curves etc. woot woot!) This 'having no periods - thing' sounds way too unnatural to me. Be proud you have something to blame a shit mood on basically whenever you want, and that for one week a month you have the right to tell people to be nice to you! Sounds good to me :D !

[Gura]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 02:30 PM
Getting your period is an incredibly natural thing and should be celebrated by a woman instead of sneered at.
Er...it's blood. I have a hard time celebrating blood.


I know I know, "why should we be celebrating something that causes sooo much annoyance?" - but one of the things that makes us women is the fact that we have the ability to give birth,
Thanks, but there's more to women than being able to give birth, just like there's more to men than being able to impregnate. This sounds very much like the attitude of some that women are merely breed stock.


Be proud you have something to blame a shit mood on basically whenever you want, and that for one week a month you have the right to tell people to be nice to you! Sounds good to me :D !
Er...if I'm in a shit mood and am acting like an asshole, I expect to be called one, and not to be able to blame it on hormones. You make it seem as though women are unable to control their moods, and so instead have to resort to using "I'm on my period" as an excuse.

[Ali.Cat]

Thanks, but there's more to women than being able to give birth, just like there's more to men than being able to impregnate. This sounds very much like the attitude of some that women are merely breed stock.


Gura: Give me a little credit - I did say ONE of the things that makes us women, among other things. And besides, isn't it better to look on the bright side of what comes to us naturally rather than sneer about it and complain? I just think this "having no periods-thing" is a lettle sketchy sounding and would probably mess around with a womans body A LOT. The body really is a temple and can do wicked things for you if you treat it right.


You make it seem as though women are unable to control their moods, and so instead have to resort to using "I'm on my period" as an excuse.

Again, just making a joke out of an otherwise uncomfortable time in a womans life. Of course women can control their moods, probably why we are labelled as nurturers - but another thing that makes us women is the fact that we can gather around with other women and celebrate, or complain about all the things that come to us naturally. I guess we don't HAVE to put up with "that time of the month" - but for those of us that see this pill as a bit scary and unnatural, as much as we may want to not have periods anymore, there are still things to look at as postives for having it - and what is wrong with that :)

[TC]

Getting your period is an incredibly natural thing and should be celebrated by a woman instead of sneered at.

lol i'm sorry but thats so gross. It reminds of me rad-fem nutcase Germaine Greer telling people that if they don't want to drink their menstrual blood they're not 'emancipated.'

What makes one human waste product something to celebrate? As far as i'm concerned, blood, mucous, sweat, urine, feces, sexual fluids of both genders, dead skin, and so on, are all pretty much in the same catagory of stuff that you just deal cause your alive but have no reason to celebrate...


And besides, isn't it better to look on the bright side of what comes to us naturally rather than sneer about it and complain?

Sure, but this conversation really involves people who are on the pill anyways, and if your on the pill you don't have natural periods that your body regulates, you have withdrawl bleeding from manipulating your hormone levels on your own...which really is no more natural than not doing that.


Of course women can control their moods,

Lol yah but if your putting hormones in your body for twenty one days, and then cutting them off for seven days, and then doing it again, instead of keeping it consistent, that can artificially mess with your moods depending on how much it affects you...why make it harder on yourself lol.

[Led Zeppelin]

Originally posted by TragicClown
As far as i'm concerned, blood, mucous, sweat, urine, feces, sexual fluids of both genders, dead skin, and so on, are all pretty much in the same catagory of stuff that you just deal cause your alive but have no reason to celebrate...

I'm not so sure about sexual fluids. There are people who like to, pardon my French, swallow, the fluids.

[TC]

lol yah but *other peoples* as part of oral sex...and thats hot cause of the context not cause of what it is...

[Ali.Cat]

lol i'm sorry but thats so gross. It reminds of me rad-fem nutcase Germaine Greer telling people that if they don't want to drink their menstrual blood they're not 'emancipated.
How does celebrating the fact that you are a woman remind you of drinking menstrual blood? That's ridiculas. Technically speaking, when a girl gets her first period she is a woman, all I am saying is that is a great thing and should be celebrated - being a woman. I know periods aren't the only thing that make us women and that differentiate us from men, but you have to admit, it's pretty high up there on the list.


What makes one human waste product something to celebrate?

It's not the blood itself you are celebrating. Come on now.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 11:30 AM
Getting your period is an incredibly natural thing and should be celebrated by a woman instead of sneered at.
Death is an incredibly natural thing, but it seems most people aren't as sadomasochist as to "celebrate" it, as you are.

[Reuben]

this thread has an amazing capacity to bring primitivist hippy fuckwits ou the woodwork

[Ali.Cat]

Death is an incredibly natural thing, but it seems most people aren't as sadomasochist as to "celebrate" it, as you are.

A lot of people are actually. When someone dies, loved ones will go around and say "be happy they had such a wonderful life" and a lot of people ask their loved ones to celebrate their lives after death, rather than mourn it.

And when did I ever say we should celebrate EVERYTHING natural. You guys are awesome at putting words into other peoples mouths.


this thread has an amazing capacity to bring primitivist hippy fuckwits ou the woodwork

If that is referring to me - I am anything but. So unless you have something useful to contribute to a thread why don't you keep your comments to yourself.

[VermontLeft]

Technically speaking, when a girl gets her first period she is a woman

no actually when a woman goes through puberty she "is a woman". periods are just one more symptom, nothing more.

there are lots of other changes that go along with "becomign a woman" and many of them are more important than fucking bleeding or whatever. and getting rid of this one aspect of "womanhood" doesnt make us any less female, it just makes being female more comfortable!

i mean its not like were gona turn into guys or lose our "curves" if we stop bleeding every month. and it may just mean that we can have more fun with those "curves". :wub:


all I am saying is that is a great thing and should be celebrated - being a woman.

yeah but celebrating "beiong a woman" has nothing to do with celebrating periods.

periods do not make us women. theyr just something we unfortunately have to live with, like guys have to deal with morning wood or embarasing errections (not that im comparing the two cause in my humble opinion, periods are so much more anoying than anything men have to deal with <_<)

we shoudnt "celebreate" "natural" fucntions that only cause misery not when we have the technology to get rid of them without causing any harm.

i mean, again, why not make our lives more pleasant? isnt that the whole point of medical science??? :o


I just think this "having no periods-thing" is a lettle sketchy sounding and would probably mess around with a womans body A LOT.

so what?

"messing around" with bodies is what doctors do.

getting cancer is jsut as "natural" as getting periods, that doesnt mean that we shoudlnt fight cancer ...or TB or malaria or AIDS...

if theres a way to make our bodies better suited to our needs, its crazy ass primativism to not do it cause it might "mess" with out "temples". :rolleyes:

and anyway doesnt taking the pill fuck with your "cycles" anyway so that you dont have natural periods no matter what. hell, if you think about it, all birth control "messes" with the natural cycle cause it stops reproduction which is the whole point of sex (biologically speaking)

so what???

periods suck; this pill stops periods; this pill is good. PERIOD&#33; :lol:

[Ali.Cat]

I guess I&#39;m lucky - I really don&#39;t feel much misery about getting my period once a month. So if any of you ladies have to deal with TERRIBLE periods - I&#39;m sorry, that must really suck. Perhaps I just feel the way I do because a) I accepted a long time ago that it&#39;s life b)my period is pretty easy to deal with - no cramps and it doesn&#39;t last too long and c)it truley does make me feel like a woman - among a number of other things.

I agree to disagree :D