Bands That Aren't Alternative

[The Grey Blur]

So anyway, a pet peeve of mine is bands that people percieve as being 'alternative' or 'underground' when they are in fact just a rock band

Yes you heard me correctly a rock band - not Jesus Christ, Karl Marx and Captain Haddock wrapped up into one giant organism of beardy brilliance

This may seem elitist to some and if it does then fuck off, I couldn't care if people like my music and I don't care what other people listen to, just get this straight...

No You're NOT Counterculture:

Nirvana
Oasis
Radiohead
Slipknotkornlinkinparkpaparoachdisturbedallnumetal bands
Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Soundgarden
Alice In Chains
Pearl Jam
My Chemical Romance
Guns n' Roses
The Clash

Some of these are excellent, groundbreaking bands but don't rest there - a little more digging and you'll have broken through to the true underground! Bear with me on this journey brother and sisters!

P.S - This should be stickied for certain member's well-being

Gawd I'm bored...add any more to the list or just ignore this...

[which doctor]

Nirvana- suck
Oasis- suck
Radiohead- suck
Slipknotkornlinkinparkpaparoachdisturbedallnumetal bands- suck ass!!
Red Hot Chilli Peppers- suck
Soundgarden- suck
Alice In Chains- suck
Pearl Jam- suck
My Chemical Romance- the worst of the "shitty bands" genre
Guns n' Roses- ugh
The Clash- orgasm

[Gunman]

Maybe System of A Down...

[heavymanners]

How are we defining 'alternative' here? Stylistically? Whether they're on an independent label or not? Political content of lyrics? How DIY the band is?

I was involved in the punk scene really heavily in the 80s/90s, and in retrospect am not so sure how politcally important it was that bands were 'alternative.'

The Clash, for example, were on a mainstream record label and had mainstream popularity, but probably did a fuck of a lot more to spread critical politcal ideas than a lot of the obscure anarcho-hardcore bands I listened to.

Likewise, Rage Against the Machine were definitely a mainstream rock band, and I personally don't like their music that much, but they probably had more coherent politcs and more widespread political impact than most of the 'alternative' bands out there. Likewise with Public Enemy.

Anyhow, getting involved in DIY culture is great and it's always good to expand one's musical horizons, but I'm not so sure that 'alternative'-ness is always all that important politically. In some cases, the focus on 'alternative' culture/subculture can just become a subsititute for political engagement - essentially a focus on lifestyle choice and consumption taste that allows people to feel that they're rebelling against capitalism, when they're actually just accomodating themselves to it.

[Fistful of Steel]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 18 2006, 09:30 PM
So anyway, a pet peeve of mine is bands that people percieve as being 'alternative' or 'underground' when they are in fact just a rock band

Yes you heard me correctly a rock band - not Jesus Christ, Karl Marx and Captain Haddock wrapped up into one giant organism of beardy brilliance

This may seem elitist to some and if it does then fuck off, I couldn't care if people like my music and I don't care what other people listen to, just get this straight...

No You're NOT Counterculture:

Nirvana
Oasis
Radiohead
Slipknotkornlinkinparkpaparoachdisturbedallnumetal bands
Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Soundgarden
Alice In Chains
Pearl Jam
My Chemical Romance
Guns n' Roses
The Clash

Some of these are excellent, groundbreaking bands but don't rest there - a little more digging and you'll have broken through to the true underground! Bear with me on this journey brother and sisters!

P.S - This should be stickied for certain member's well-being

Gawd I'm bored...add any more to the list or just ignore this...
Like stated in this thread, it depends on what you consider "underground" or alternative. Oasis definitely aren't alternative. The Clash were standard punk, making punk music when punk music wasn't popular, they only stopped being outside the mainstream later on in their career. Nirvana started out on Subpop and were indeed unknown and alternative with their debut album Bleach. Same with Soundgarden, who started off on a small label and weren't popular. Alternative was mostly used to describe, indie, college rock, and grunge. Pearl Jam and AIC were a deal more mainstream than the above two grunge bands as they both started out more influenced by classic rock and metal. As much as I dislike to give them any credibility, MCR's debut didn't really break into the mainstream and could be considered underground due to their cult following. Oasis was stadium sized rock from the get go. If I remember correctly a lot of early RHCP wasn't popular at all, fitting them into underground and they played a style far different from popular music of their time. Radiohead started off a one-hit wonder, and although they had a lot of great albums none of them were overtly underground, although I could see why the moniker alternative may fit due to their influence outside the mainstream and embracing of styles not often used.

So, just because a band gets popular doesn't mean it wasn't underground at one point, or that it wasn't alternative to the mainstream. And as far as them not representing the counter-culture goes, consider this: Hippies were the definitive counter-culture of the 60's. The most popular band in the world ever, the Beatles, was emblematic of said counter-culture.

[More Fire for the People]

Alternative does not designate counterculture, but a more original sound within the band's genre. Ex. RHCP being funk-metal / alternative metal, as opposed to Slayer or Metallica.

[FinnMacCool]

The Clash

Early clash was punk, though I'm not sure if that counts as alternative. They always had a punk influence in them, even when they branched out into other styles.

[Rockfan]

Fuck you people are pissing me off tonight.

"Hey lets class all music so that we can argue about how much we hate the sub-genre of this sub-genre which we really secretly like but we're all just to proud to admit it."

Thats all you guys seem proccupied with!!!!!!!!!

First of ass lets get one thing stright, the reason most of those bands anr't underground is because there better then underground bands, thats the nature of the beast, the good bands get sighned to major labels and the others slave away on indies. Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden (all orignal on sub-pop I'm prity sure), Pearl Jam, G'n'R and The Clash are all examples of this, not all the underground is full of "groundbreaking" music, that shit goes above ground.

And secondly, alternative was made to accomadate for bands like Nirvana, AIC and Soundgarden along with Oasis etc.

Now can we stop critising and classing music and start disscusing what is turly good, and if you don't fucking like it, DON'T SAY ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ian]

I like every single one of the bands mentioned by Commie Rat, and anyone who knows me knows I hate everything usually. You are all shitbags I hate.

[drain.you]

A number of them bands were very 'alternative' when they started off.

Nirvana, for one, were the driving force behind a 'new' type of music, ever heard of grunge? That was a counter culture reaction to society. Would say that Alice In Chains and Pearl Jam were also of this movement.

Red Hot Chilli Peppers were one of the first bands to combine the 'black' style of funk with the 'white' style of rock. Its not exactly conformist stuff.

The Clash weren't alternative? Along with the Sex Pistols they formed British punk and sparked the second British invasion to America.

Guns n' Roses, I hate these guys so will not bother defending them, they are fucking machoist pigs. Them other bands I not really keen on and so dont know any history.

I think all music is important and I can't see how you don't see them bands as being not 'alternative'. Especially for Nirvana and the Clash which helped form genres that are still with us today.

Personally I would define 'alternative' as types of music that were not mainstream when they were emerging. Nirvana pretty much gave grunge a name, grunge wasn't known in Europe before Nirvana's success because Nirvana was a part of the 'alternative' grunge scene that started in the West of the US.

Bands that aren't alternative would be stuff that has already been done and is in the mainstream. Sure Nirvana now is mainstream but their style was not before they became famous.

[The Grey Blur]

Hee hee ^_^ Me make Rockfan angry

So yeah, add RATM, and SOAD

People seem to be taking this the wrong way - I am not stating these bands are crap or "evil" for selling out (I have a deep love for the Clash and RATM who turned me on to Socialist politics) but the fact is these bands are not alternative and would not think themselves so so it just annoys me when their fans think they're oh so cutting-edge for listening to them. If that makes sense...

The fact is 90% of music is derivative - there will always be a better band than your favourite - keep digging!

Oh and Tool, add them to the list, their fans pissed me off

[Rockfan]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 20 2006, 09:12 AM
Oh and Tool, add them to the list, their fans pissed me off
I know your only saying that as a joke but there are a perfect example of an underground band that got to good for there underground, god dam there awsome.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 05:38 AM
I like every single one of the bands mentioned by Commie Rat, and anyone who knows me knows I hate everything usually. You are all shitbags I hate.
Who the fuck is commie rat?

[Zero]

I like Chili Peppers personally...

I don't see why people think that music defines your politics... it can... but its not required or anything.

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 03:50 AM
I know your only saying that as a joke but there are a perfect example of an underground band that got to good for there underground, god dam there awsome.
'Got to good' for their underground :lol: Have you ever heard of Fugazi?


I like Chili Peppers personally...
So do I. Although an interesting experiment is to play all the RHCP on your computer - it sounds like one big song with slightly varying tempos

[Dyst]

Fugazi ain't musically anywhere near Tool. Both in category and skill-wise.

[The Grey Blur]

My point wasn't that Fugazi are better or similiar, it's that they disprove the notion that a band can become 'too good/big' for the underground scene

There are other examples, they were just the first that came into my mind

[Kurt Crover]

Mudhoney and Soundgarden. Now there's two great bands.

[chimx]

1994 called. it wants its terrible taste in music back.

[Lucy Parsons]

The clash's lyrics were always in opposition of the mainstream culture there for making thempart of the counterculture.

The Clash supportedand encouraged people to join groups such as Rock Against Racism and encouraged physically opposing fascists.

After the Clash broke up Joe Strummer continued to support similair groups taking part in things such as Class Wars 'Rock Against the Rich' tour. All this is alot more than alot of political/ alternative bands do now.

[Fistful of Steel]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 20 2006, 04:06 PM
My point wasn't that Fugazi are better or similiar, it's that they disprove the notion that a band can become 'too good/big' for the underground scene

There are other examples, they were just the first that came into my mind
A band can become too big for the underground, naturally. If they reach a certain point of popularity they can indeed become mainstream. (Not that Fugazi fit that bill, I love them)

[Gunman]

Lordi anyone?

[Rockfan]

Originally posted by Permanent Revolution+May 20 2006, 11:55 PM--> (Permanent Revolution @ May 20 2006, 11:55 PM)
[email protected] 20 2006, 03:50 AM
I know your only saying that as a joke but there are a perfect example of an underground band that got to good for there underground, god dam there awsome.
'Got to good' for their underground :lol: Have you ever heard of Fugazi?

[/b]
I meant to say got to good for THE underground, for a band like them to stay there would be cheating themselves.

[LoneRed]

Sir you have insulted my honor.. I challenge you to a duel.


Wait did you insult the Clash... you gone and done i now, shit has hit the fan.

The clash was definitely "counter culture" at the time, no ifs ands or buts about it

[Scott Commerce]

Wait wait wait.

I'm still stuck on you insulting Radiohead.


By the way, The Clash are pop punk, not simply rock or alternative.

Radiohead is experimental alternative.


Also, I absolutly hate when people say that bands that are underground are underground because they suck compared to popular bands. Because we all know the music you hear on the radio is the top-notch best music ever created. N*Sync is ABSOFUCKINGLUTLY AMAZING.

I hate to hear this from a culture that isn't in the mainstreem at all also. How can a communist or an anarchist living in a capitalistic world call bands that aren't well known or well represented bad, when they themsevles aren't well represented or well known.

A perfect example of a band that is amazing and one of the most influencial bands ever, but wasn't popular during their time: The Velvet Underground.

The amount of records they sold while the band was still together can be counted today, because so few people have originals. They couldn't make it to the store. Yet, it has been said that "Anyone who listens to Velvet Underground starts a band". How can a band this influencial, this amazing, this outstanding be underground? Simple. mainstreem isn't about GOOD or TALENT, it's about what is easiest to sell.

Fact of the matter is experiemental music isn't easy to sell. People hate change. Why do you think people are so afraid of the communist movement? They are afraid of change. So how can you possibly say that because a band isn't popular, they can't possibly be as good as popular bands?

[EwokUtopia]

Dare I even mention Rage Against the Machine? Kinda disturbs me how their tied up with big corporate record labels like epic and sony. Also, their gratuitious use of Che's face on t-shirts with "rage against the machine" on it pisses me off quite a bit, leading inevitably (and humourously) to people thinking good ol' che is the lead singer.

Anyways, I like to diversify my musical tastes as much as possible. Right now I am listening to some kickass Persian instrumental music.

[LoneRed]

pop punk? how delightfully false.

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by Scott [email protected] 21 2006, 06:31 AM
...
By the way, The Clash are pop punk, not simply rock or alternative.

Clash, pop-punk? I don't think so.

[kurt]

Dude, you do realize that the term "alternative" was used to describe punk-influenced bands in the 1980's...

Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam were all "alternative" bands during the time they were formed. They epitomized "counter-culture". Just because the word alternative has been obscured today does not change the fact that these bands are what alternative rock was.

[The Grey Blur]

:lol: Beat Happening were alternative at that time man, not Pearl Jam

[Invader Zim]

I think this thread is a bit daft.

You have mainstream and everything else is alternative. Just because a band breaks though and makes an impact on the charts does not stop it being alternative. Many bands are not widely popular despite being charting music. They usually have a large following, large enough to be popular, but they are not widely popular. Most of the bands you mentioned, save a few, are bands with a large base following and they are popular within their genre but that does not make them any less alternative. The fact that they are in a different specialised genre is because they are alternative.

[The Grey Blur]

It should be stickied for the good of the teeny-punks

And RATM, I'll add them guys eventually

Nah, I really just created this thread cause I was bored

[kurt]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 23 2006, 07:04 AM
:lol: Beat Happening were alternative at that time man, not Pearl Jam
I never said beat happening wasn't alternative :P, but Pearl Jam certainly was still alternative rock at the time they were formed. After all, half of their membership played in the "first" grunge band.

[Brekisonphilous]

The Mars Volta
Tool
Dungen(swedish)
Death From Above 1979
Incubus (especially their oldest stuff unless you like more chilled muic)
The broken social scene (check out the album You forgot it in people)
American Football(highly recommended)
Team Sleep
Sonic youth (I love their newer Albums)

[redchrisfalling]

I'm sorry but FUCK YOU.

Korn does not belong on the same list as slipnot and disturbed. They were the mother fucking fathers of metal. they rolled out of the dust bowl and rocked the country. Just because they were good enogh and ambitious enough to make a buck at it dosen't mean they were any less underground. They were alone and outcasted for years, which is why they're fan base is so epic. Korn rocked the underground then and still do today.

[The Grey Blur]

:lol:

And and and

:lol:

Oh wait

:lol:

Just to be sure...

:lol:

[which doctor]

RATM doesn't use their band to sell revolution, they use revolution to sell their band.


Originally posted by Brekisonphilous
The broken social scene (check out the album You forgot it in people)

I got their poster hanging up in my room right now :)

[MiniOswald]

Originally posted by Scott [email protected] 21 2006, 04:32 AM
By the way, The Clash are pop punk, not simply rock or alternative.




That term should be reserved as a nice way of refering to american college rock bands who think they're punk