Islam Hold Private Property Sacred

[TheSpoon]

...does that mean true followers of Islam can't be revolutionary Communists?

[amanondeathrow]

That and many others reasons prevent any theist from being able to hold materialist or communist views.

Islam is medieval superstition that, like all other religions, has managed to stay relevant in a progressing world. It will surly have no place in a communist society.

[Leo]

Well, first of all Islam doesn't hold private property sacred. According to the Qur'an, property belongs only to Allah.

But you are correct, 'true followers of Islam can't be revolutionary Communists' because
it is a medieval superstition, like all other religions.


That and many others reasons prevent any theist from being able to hold materialist or communist views.

Islam is medieval superstition that, like all other religions, has managed to stay relevant in a progressing world. It will surly have no place in a communist society.

Exactly...

[Brekisonphilous]

What is the solution to this? Obviously there isn't an easy one, because in my free society, religion is fine and a good thing for the people, until the point where it becomes fanatical and extreme.. But it seriously fucks things up... What does it take for people to understand that This life should be their primary concern. not what could be after this one.
What if specific countries were given to the different groups of theists to live the way they wanted? I am aware of the infinite numbers of problems this could bring, but it seems like the best solution I am aware of anyway.

[rouchambeau]

Do you mean private property as in means of production or something personal like a bike or pair of shoes?

[Janus]

Private property is anything that is exclusively owned by an individual. In a communist society, property will be owned by everyone and the to each according to their needs maxim will be applied.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 08:59 PM
What is the solution to this? Obviously there isn't an easy one, because in my free society, religion is fine and a good thing for the people, until the point where it becomes fanatical and extreme.. But it seriously fucks things up... What does it take for people to understand that This life should be their primary concern. not what could be after this one.
What if specific countries were given to the different groups of theists to live the way they wanted? I am aware of the infinite numbers of problems this could bring, but it seems like the best solution I am aware of anyway.
No, religion is not "a fine and good thing" anywhere at any time.

"Giving" them a country to run is giving them a license to steal...and to do many other horrible things as well.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Dreckt]

This is what I don't understand - Iran is a capitalist country from Khomeinis revolution, so why is it such a big problem for the US?

[Enragé]

because they hate the US

its as simple as that. The dude before the revolution was a ruthless tyrant supported by the US.

as for islam holding private property sacred, well, its all about interpretation, this is a nice one;

Islamic Economy is Islam’s answer to Western ideologies like capitalism and socialism. Within the Shia school of thought the late martyrs Ayatullah Murtadha Mutahhari, Ayatullah Mahmood Taleqani and above all Ayatullah Muhammad Baqir Sadr have explained the principles of Islamic economy. Since then others have followed writing in this tradition.

Like capitalism, Islamic economy accepts private property. Like socialism, Islam seeks a classless society where all receive pay according to their need and their labor. How does Islam achieve this synthesis? Islam Islam marries private property with a classless society by making private property the right of the many instead of the privilege of the few.

Need

Shahid Taleqani said “from each according to his ability and to each according to his need” is “the first slogan of Islam.” How does Islam define need, though? It does so in two ways. First is what Baqir Sadr called “general reciprocal responsibility.” This covers basic biological needs. None should go hungry, homeless, cold or untreated for disease in true Islamic system. In short, there should be no absolute poverty under Islamic rule. This is an immediate obligation on the Muslim community.

Second is what Baqir Sadr calls “social balance.” This covers social needs – namely the need for all in society to enjoy a single “common standard of life.” People should live not just in physical comfort but in dignity. According to hadith Baqir Sadr cites, those below the common standard of life should be “joined to the people” so they can live “without difficulty and without dread.” This is a long term goal that may require a great deal of time and effort.

Work

Shahid Mutahhari said “the Islamic principle” is “work according to one's ability, entitlement according to one's work.” Once people have their needs met, people receive the rest of their pay according to their work. Different people’s work is not equal, so their pay should not be equal either. People naturally have different abilities and talents. This is not just because of differences of training or opportunities. Instead it is a natural fact. One person’s labor is not necessarily equal to another’s. These natural differences are different from the inequalities of race and caste systems. The only economic inequality Islam allows is the natural inequality of labor.

Ownership

According to Shahid Baqir Sadr, work is the “source of ownership” and “basis of private property.” Workers have the right to own the product of their labor. Whereas work and need are “primary instruments of distribution,” ownership is a “secondary instrument of distribution.” Islam thus acknowledges the priority of labor over capital. Capital is derivative, an extension of labor. In fact, capital for Baqir Sadr is actually “stored labor.”

Natural wealths cannot be private property because they are not stored labor. However, what people extract from nature with their labor becomes their private property. Islam prohibits hoarding money and lending it out at interest because only real physical capital (buildings, tools, etc.) are stored labor – not money. Similarly, Islam prohibits speculation, gambling and monopoly because like interest these profits are not tied to the value and performance of real capital.

All have the right to own their stored labor. None has the right to own more. People can trade the products of their labor. Yet if some end up with more than their stored labor and others without, then those with more are living off the labor of those without. The haves force the have-nots to work for a wage. This is what happens under capitalism. While Islam does not agree with Proudhon that “property is theft,” the Islamic rule would appear to be that property beyond one’s stored labor is theft. If some under an Islamic system work for a wage, it is by choice rather than compulsion.

Historical Example

Muslims can find an example of Islamic economy from Islamic history in the Islamic State of the Prophet Muhammad. Prior to the Prophet, the ruling Quraysh tribes controlled all of Mecca’s main economic resources: the marketplace, the caravans, the pilgrimage and the natural resources. The Prophet made these available to all. Now anyone could set up shop for free without capitalists or the state in the way. The Prophet thus created a society of small proprietors who owned their own cattle, farms and businesses.

Since the Industrial Revolution two hundred years ago, certain industries are too large for small businesspeople such as those of the Prophet’s time to own. For these kinds of businesses, the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran created the cooperative sector. This gives workers and consumers ownership of their stored labor instead of capitalists or the state.

[DORRI]

well done,NewKindOfSoldier!
thanks a lot, I was thinking of finding a correct answer to it, but there's nothing left to say after your complete one!

but after all, let me insist that iran is niether capitalist, nor socialist. Iran tries to be islamic.

[FuzzBeast]

Good Post NKOS, havent seen you on TPU in a while.
The problem with religious econmics, hell the problem with religion in general, is that everything is open to interpretation.
Many old religious texts, in many religions, have sections that could be considered anti-capitalist, including the ideas of Islamic economics, however, this is not how they are interpreted today, and it is the fact that everyone plays along with the global capitalist strucures in power in the world that causes many problems. This also creates a large divide for interpreting. If people in Islamic countries were to live by the principles NKOS posted, there wouldn't be shieks and shahs and stuff living in humongous palaces that they have to drive thousands of gallons of water to every day, by truck, to fuel the fountains.