So what does the Communist League do?

[barista.marxista]

In a recent thread (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=49988&st=75), Miles, of Communist League fame, made this statement:


Originally posted by CommunistLeague
What's the difference between an anarchist and most of the self-described "Leninists"? An anarchist substitutes him or herself for the working class as an individual. A self-described "Leninist" substitutes him or herself for the working class as part of an organization.

So, I was curious: how does the Communist League, implied here to be a "self-described Leninist" organization, actually organize? What do you guys really do? You commonly charge us non-Leninists to be dumpster-tipping anarchists. How are you guys organizing as a revolutionary model today, and what do you do in this organization you "substitute" yourself to?

[Janus]

implied here to be a "self-described Leninist"
Not really. Substitution for the working class seems to be argued against in that statement. The Communist League is a working class organization and thus seeks to unite workers nor does not believe that it can simply substitute for them with any type of iron Bolshevik discipline.

[barista.marxista]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 08:28 PM

implied here to be a "self-described Leninist"
Not really. Substitution for the working class seems to be argued against in that statement. The Communist League is a working class organization and thus seeks to unite workers nor does not believe that it can simply substitute for them with any type of iron Bolshevik discipline.
Then how does it actually do this?

[Janus]

Then how does it actually do this?
You mean how does it try to unite workers? It does it as any other leftist organization probably would, to get the workers involved in political organization.

[barista.marxista]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 08:58 PM
You mean how does it try to unite workers? It does it as any other leftist organization probably would, to get the workers involved in political organization.
Nice. So how do you actually do this?

[Janus]

Are you talking about the specifics? I'm not exactly sure though I believe that the CL simply talks to workers, local union leaders, etc. for recruitment and organizational purposes.

[Nachie]

How can you as a member of the organization not be exactly sure what it even does? :blink:

But luckily Miles seems poised to reply; he'll have answers I'm sure.

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 07:12 PM
So, I was curious: how does the Communist League, implied here to be a "self-described Leninist" organization, actually organize? What do you guys really do? You commonly charge us non-Leninists to be dumpster-tipping anarchists. How are you guys organizing as a revolutionary model today, and what do you do in this organization you "substitute" yourself to?
First of all, we're not a "self-described Leninist" organization, and we do not "substitute" ourselves for the class. We work with working people in struggle, not on their behalf.

As for our organizing work, let me give an example of the kind of things we do. When we work with the Delphi workers, we help to promote their actions as well as organize labor/community support for what they are doing, including contingents to participate in pickets and other actions they are staging. We encourage Delphi workers not already involved to join the Soldiers of Solidarity and even organize their own Delphi Workers' Committee at their plant.

At the same time, we offer our opinion on the situation they face, a communist view of why this is happening and what it will take for the workers to win the fight they are in. We encourage our brothers and sisters to talk among themselves about these issues and to decide for themselves what they think is the best course of action -- since, after all, they are the ones who will have to make this fight.

In short, we support any genuine working people's movement against the capitalist order, while bringing to the fore the question of capitalism, and the need for its overthrow, and working for the greatest possible unity of workers to carry on this fight.

This is how we roll.

Miles

[Janus]

How can you as a member of the organization not be exactly sure what it even does?
I don't live near a branch and I have been organizing with the local IWW. As I do not live in a politically active area, I'm not exactly sure how the CL actually organizes workers. I know the general outline but not the small specifics which barista.marxista was asking for. Cl is a relatively new organization and you can't just expect branches to pop out everywhere. These things take time.

[Nachie]

What towns is the CL active in other than Detroit?

What's the relationship between your local chapter and the Detroit Working People's Association aside from sharing a PO Box? What about the IWPA, it seems to share practically the same layout as the old CL site and the publications from all three organizations are very similar in presentation.

I've heard of a "Canadian Commission" in the League, what's going on with that?

[OneBrickOneVoice]

I don't think the CL is completely Leninist. Sure they have been influenced by it but they I don't think they advocate the vanguard and a DOP.

[Janus]

Sure they have been influenced by it but they I don't think they advocate the vanguard and a DOP
The CL was created to get away from the Leninist influence by establishing a proletarian organization. The worker's republic and the dictatorship of the proletariat are one and the same.

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 08:39 PM
What towns is the CL active in other than Detroit?

What's the relationship between your local chapter and the Detroit Working People's Association aside from sharing a PO Box? What about the IWPA, it seems to share practically the same layout as the old CL site and the publications from all three organizations are very similar in presentation.

I've heard of a "Canadian Commission" in the League, what's going on with that?
I'll let other members tell you where we are active. Because we do much of our work clandestinely, we're not too inclined to make members' locations public knowledge.

Members of the League in Detroit participate in the DWPA along with our friends who left the Socialist Party USA and formed the group. They have been kind enough to let us have correspondence come to their P.O. Box until we get our own established.

Admittedly, the same comrade who originally designed the old League website also used the same template for the IWPA website. Ironically enough, that comrade is not a member of the League, but was willing to help us out. He is also the guy who taught League members how to do desktop publishing and did the initial design ideas for WPA and WR (both of which are now undergoing redesigns).

The Canadian Commission is semi-active and does maintain correspondence with friends of the League. It has produced an issue of its journal, Working People's Tribune, but that has not been put into format for the website at this time.

Miles

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Sure they have been influenced by it but they I don't think they advocate the vanguard and a DOP
The CL was created to get away from the Leninist influence by establishing a proletarian organization. The worker's republic and the dictatorship of the proletariat are one and the same.

So what branch of Communism do you think they are most affiliated with?

[Nachie]

They define themselves only as "Marxist", but "Lenin-friendly". I know at least one person in it (Disgustapated) is an anarcho-syndicalist, though.

[barista.marxista]

Originally posted by CommunistLeague+May 16 2006, 09:51 PM--> (CommunistLeague @ May 16 2006, 09:51 PM)Because we do much of our work clandestinely, we're not too inclined to make members' locations public knowledge.[/b]
There seems to be a contradiction here. Earlier in this thread, you said:


CL
We work with working people in struggle, not on their behalf.

But your description of clandestine organization is paradoxical here. You cannot be an organization for working with workers, if you organize with secrecy and elitism. This model is obviously Leninist. So is the CL itself a contradiction? How does this paradox effect the aim of the organization?

It's cool that you guys supported the Delphi workers like that. What other kind of work do you do?

[Janus]

They define themselves only as "Marxist", but "Lenin-friendly". I know at least one person in it (Disgustapated) is an anarcho-syndicalist, though.
It's an orthodox Marxist group. There are Leninists in the CL (they're Marxists in anarchist organizations as well) but the CL does not support Leninist ideas such as that of a vanguard leading the revolution.


You cannot be an organization for working with workers, if you organize with secrecy and elitism.This model is obviously Leninist. So is the CL itself a contradiction?
Clandestine as in the CL doesn't make everything public. A lot of organizations are secretive and this does not mean that they are elitist in any sense. The CL isn't trying to be secretive towards members but outsiders who may serve a malicious agenda. How is that Leninist and how is it a contradiction? Infiltration by the government isn't unheard of. I doubt RAAN reveals everything to outsides as well.

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by barista.marxista+May 16 2006, 09:41 PM--> (barista.marxista @ May 16 2006, 09:41 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 09:51 PM
Because we do much of our work clandestinely, we're not too inclined to make members' locations public knowledge.
There seems to be a contradiction here. Earlier in this thread, you said:


CL
We work with working people in struggle, not on their behalf.

But your description of clandestine organization is paradoxical here. You cannot be an organization for working with workers, if you organize with secrecy and elitism. This model is obviously Leninist. So is the CL itself a contradiction? How does this paradox effect the aim of the organization?

It's cool that you guys supported the Delphi workers like that. What other kind of work do you do? [/b]
Where we can operate openly, we do. Where it can be a security issue, we operate clandestinely. Moreover, operating clandestinely does not necessarily mean being "elitist" -- a word you see as synonymous with "Leninist".

Miles

[barista.marxista]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 11:02 PM
Where we can operate openly, we do. Where it can be a security issue, we operate clandestinely.
So you cannot tell me what kind of actions you guys do, and how you organize, for security culture reasons? I can't imagine what stage of the revolutionary struggle you're at, if the rest of us feel comfortable sharing our initiatives here. Hell, RAAN's Network History is one of the first things on the website hub, and I daresay the Book Liberation Week was a bit riskier than supporting Delphi workers.

You needn't even tell me how you organize then, but simply where you may be present, and what you do there. I'd genuinely like to know, as RAAN is an attempt to network commies and annies, and so getting to know other commie groups, especially specifically non-Leninist (or at least not entirely Leninist) ones.


Moreover, operating clandestinely does not necessarily mean being "elitist" -- a word you see as synonymous with "Leninist".

We can call it SI/Kautskyist if that would make everyone here feel better. I still think it falls upon those lines. You can't organize with workers if you organize in secrecy.

[Janus]

CL doesn't organize in secrecy like some type of cult. People know of it through flyers and pamphlets etc. but the CL doesn't publish all its activities and methods for all to see. I doubt many organizations do.

This is simply done to protect security and protect the members. That's what Miles was saying above. He wasn't simply going to rattle off a list of where the CL has branches and how they're organized and their members etc.

[Janus]

So you cannot tell me what kind of actions you guys do
Miles just told you what type of actions the CL does. That's the basics of it. What more do you want to know?

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 10:24 PM
What more do you want to know?
Apparently, everything. They obviously don't care who's watching or reading this.

Miles

[Nachie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 02:54 AM
There are Leninists in the CL but the CL does not support Leninist ideas such as that of a vanguard leading the revolution.
This seems to me an extremely untenable contradiction, especially given the open support for the idea of a vanguard as expressed by CL members on this forum. Time will tell if this "balance" can be maintained, I guess.

[Floyce White]

Nachie, Barista.marxista, you should have addressed him as "Comrade Miles." You know his name. He does not know your name, but does address you correctly by your chosen title. Please do not use verbal superiority.

[KC]

but simply where you may be present, and what you do there.

The next issue of WPA should have reports from League members nationwide regarding the May Day Immigrants Rights rallies. You can find out then.


given the open support for the idea of a vanguard

Recognizing that the vanguard exists isn't the same as supporting the idea of a vanguard party. In fact, they're two completely different issues. I support the first and reject the latter, and I'm the only League member that I know of besides Rick that has even talked about this on Revleft.

[Nachie]

Originally posted by Floyce [email protected] 17 2006, 03:33 AM
Nachie, Barista.marxista, you should have addressed him as "Comrade Miles." You know his name. He does not know your name, but does address you correctly by your chosen title. Please do not use verbal superiority.
Oh just shut up.

[barista.marxista]

So you guys organize openly with workers, in real life, but you don't want to reveal the cities where members are active in the semi-anonymity of the internet? That is, again, a contradiction.


I doubt RAAN reveals everything to outsides as well.

Well, RAAN includes a Network History on the front of its site, all the established collectives and crews are listed under Affiliation, and documents are written openly on the forums, participated in by anyone who cares to drop by.

[Floyce White]

Nachie: "Oh just shut up."

Please do not address me in that manner. You are not my master.

[Janus]

This seems to me an extremely untenable contradiction, especially given the open support for the idea of a vanguard as expressed by CL members on this forum. Time will tell if this "balance" can be maintained, I guess.
They weren't talking about a Leninist vanguard. What Miles and Lazar were saying was that a certain portion of the proletariat will most likely be more politically inclined and more active than others. However, this does not mean that they will be the leaders or anything just that they will be more progressive and "advanced" if you will.

[Nachie]

Nor are you mine; don't tell me who's name to stick "comrade" in front of!

If Miles cared he would either have been signing his posts "Comrade Miles" all along, or would have said something himself by now.

[Nachie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 03:45 AM
They weren't talking about a Leninist vanguard. What Miles and Lazar were saying was that a certain portion of the proletariat will most likely be more politically inclined and more active than others. However, this does not mean that they will be the leaders or anything just that they will be more progressive and "advanced" if you will.
Right but wasn't the whole point of that discussion over the specific use of the term "vanguard"?

[Janus]

So you guys organize openly with workers, in real life, but you don't want to reveal the cities where members are active in the semi-anonymity of the internet?
Miles said that was for those members to reveal if they wish. The "hotbed" of CL activity is in Detroit as most people know.


Well, RAAN includes a Network History on the front of its site, all the established collectives and crews are listed under Affiliation, and documents are written openly on the forums, participated in by anyone who cares to drop by.
You initially asked the CL to reveal their political structure, who their members were, etc. Documents are also available on the CL website though it is down right now. Their are practical reasons for not revealing all aspects of your organization and it does not signify elitism. Anyone can find the principles of CL on the website and send an email if they have questions. Why should they want to know every specific detail such as every action? If they were looking for branches, they could simply ask.

[KC]

Miles said that was for those members to reveal if they wish. The "hotbed" of CL activity is in Detroit as most people know.


That's definitely debatable.

[Janus]

Right but wasn't the whole point of that discussion over the specific use of the term "vanguard"?
Yes. I agree that the general connotation is that of a certain elite group leading the revolution. However there are other definitions as well which Miles and Lazar pointed out. These definitions aren't inherently elitist. They simply describe what's happening now. The proletariat who are more politically inclined are engaged in action right now. But does it mean that they will lead the revolution and take over? I don't think so.

[KC]

However there are other definitions as well which Miles and Lazar pointed out.

The definition we pointed out is the actual definition of the word. People confuse it with Lenin's view on the role of the vanguard.

[barista.marxista]

Can we start referring to the revolution as the "Final Solution," too?

[Janus]

That's definitely debatable.
Sorry, I don't live in the north. :(

[Janus]

Can we start referring to the revolution as the "Final Solution," too?
:blink: Could you stay on topic. You asked what the CL did and Miles told you. Then you asked why everything wasn't made public and Miles told you. Most of the information that one would want to look at before joining is available on the website. It seems to me that RAAN doesn't reveal its political organizational structure and all its actions either? Why make the job easier for the government? Is that information crucial? Workers can look at the stuff that is and based on that decide whether they want to join or not. Theirs no diabolical plan that's hidden from them or anything like that. The government sees radical leftist groups as enemies and Fifth Columnists so when you reveal group structure and member lists +locations, why would they need COINTELPRO?

[Nachie]

Janus you seem to have been "left out" by the League's clandestine structure.


Why should they want to know every specific detail such as every action?
Well, I guess the most important thing is that it would give them a very clear idea as to the nature of the group they are thinking of getting involved in and its actual strengths. Miles has thankfully corrected me, but you must understand that the impression given just by looking at the CL website is of a group that publishes/distributes statements and periodicals, but not much else.

Having the only League contact as a central PO Box is also I think hurtful to your cause to the extent that it keeps people in the dark as to whereabouts the League is active and if they have a chapter nearby. If I just saw one PO Box and/or e-mail I would assume it was one person or just one city and then from there probably conclude that there are no resources to assist me in my own town.

[Janus]

Janus you seem to have been "left out" by the League's clandestine structure.
Most of it is open on the CL forum for those who want to look.


Well, I guess the most important thing is that it would give them a very clear idea as to the nature of the group they are thinking of getting involved in and its actual strengths
I emailed Miles and talked with him on the phone concerning this. Anyone else could do that as well.


Miles has thankfully corrected me, but you must understand that the impression given just by looking at the CL website is of a group that publishes/distributes statements and periodicals, but not much else.
True, but the League is relatively new so there isn't a huge list of contacts or anything.


If I just saw one PO Box and/or e-mail I would assume it was one person or just one city and then from there probably conclude that there are no resources to assist me in my own town.
That's my situation. However, this is how political organizations grow and one could ask for advice from more experienced members.

[Nachie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 04:14 AM
Most of it is open on the CL forum for those who want to look.
That just makes me even more curious about your own confusion.


I emailed Miles and talked with him on the phone concerning this. Anyone else could do that as well.
So Miles is the League's official recruiter and contact person?


True, but the League is relatively new so there isn't a huge list of contacts or anything.
Relatively yes, but if it has been around for 5 years then it's already beaten out the lifespan of a lot of other groups like it. I tend to believe that most organizations experience periodic explosive growth spurts rather than sustained recruitment over time (not including "revolving door" orgs like the ISO).

[Janus]

That just makes me even more curious about your own confusion.
Nachie, I went to your site. I see newsletters, a forum, flyers, and the principles of RAAN. You have some actions listed and I see a list of contacts which can be used to find info. but no list of members or anything like that. The general principles are available on the website. Further questions can be asked through email or just on the forum. You and barista.marxista act as if there was some hidden diabolical plot within CL when there isn't. One can gain a basic understanding of the CL's political structure by analyzing either the works written or the League's ideology because if there was a contradiction then how could an organization survive?

You say that people will gain the impression that the CL is simply a newspaper distributor but that's what the Internet is mainly for: a place to distribute info. Not a place to make discrete info public.


So Miles is the League's official recruiter and contact person?
From what I've seen, people usually join an organization that actually has a presence in their area. How do they discover this presence, either by word of mouth or by attending an event in which members of that organization are present. There aren't many people particularly workers who simply stroll on some website and discover an organization by accident. The website is more supplmental than anything else. Continuing with that example, the person would then contact the local branch and establish an appointment.

However, if someone was interested in the CL and did not live near a branch, then they could email the League and get in contact with Miles because Miles handled questions and whatnot on the old website. But now there is a forum in which one can post and ask other League members.

I also went on the IWW site and saw that my branch wasn't listed. Like Miles said, if the members of a branch want to reveal themselves then they could do it. I'm sure that one can find out on the forum.

[LoneRed]

Firstly
Well, RAAN includes a Network History on the front of its site, all the established collectives and crews are listed under Affiliation, .


thats your loss, lets see we are trying to overthrow the existing order, but here are where are members and locals are, here you go government, enjoy


Also Members in areas other than Detroit have league emails, and are given out to people interested in that certain area, as well as if there are possible members they are given the areas email address. The way the league started had one email where the founders checked, now that its getting bigger, things are changing, arent all groups supposed to do that Nachie??? :unsure:

[KC]

So Miles is the League's official recruiter and contact person?

Miles handles the League email account ([email protected]).

[Nachie]

Originally posted by LoneRed+May 17 2006, 11:39 PM--> (LoneRed @ May 17 2006, 11:39 PM)thats your loss, lets see we are trying to overthrow the existing order, but here are where are members and locals are, here you go government, enjoy[/b]
There's nothing on the site that the government couldn't already have if they wanted. Your cheesy security culture is pretty lame guys, like it wouldn't be easy to track you down whenever they felt like it. I think it does more harm than good for groups our size to make a big secret of it.


Janus
and I see a list of contacts which can be used to find info. but no list of members or anything like that.
Nobody said the CL site should have a list of members, just "a list of contacts that can be used to find info".


You say that people will gain the impression that the CL is simply a newspaper distributor but that's what the Internet is mainly for: a place to distribute info. Not a place to make discrete info public.
I'm not saying make discreet info public.


There aren't many people particularly workers who simply stroll on some website and discover an organization by accident. The website is more supplmental than anything else.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I just thought that's how you ended up joining.


I'm sure that one can find out on the forum.
So if I go bust an A/S/L??? in the CL forum, that'd be a better way to find out whereabouts you guys are?

[LoneRed]

Nachi, If there are interested people that wanna join the league we get them in touch with people in there area if there are people, its as simple as that.


You may think the precautions we take are silly, but little protection is better than NO protection

[Sabocat]

So you cannot tell me what kind of actions you guys do, and how you organize, for security culture reasons? I can't imagine what stage of the revolutionary struggle you're at, if the rest of us feel comfortable sharing our initiatives here. Hell, RAAN's Network History is one of the first things on the website hub, and I daresay the Book Liberation Week was a bit riskier than supporting Delphi workers.

You needn't even tell me how you organize then, but simply where you may be present, and what you do there. I'd genuinely like to know, as RAAN is an attempt to network commies and annies, and so getting to know other commie groups, especially specifically non-Leninist (or at least not entirely Leninist) ones.


I thought I had given a pretty good sampling of the kinds of things the League has participated in. It's even posted on the RAAN board. ;)

Link (http://www.redanarchist.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=28)


What towns is the CL active in other than Detroit?

I would not be comfortable naming every city that the League has membership, that would be up to each group, but I will tell you that I am actively involved in Boston. We're still a pretty small group, but have had some great conversations with other groups and have spoken to countless union members, immigrant day laborors, marched in solidarity with the immigrant during the recent protests, etc. The Boston group has also supported worker actions in Detroit, and attended events in DC.

Having said all that, in answer to your question, if people from RAAN want to chat with me in the Boston area, I would be willing. We could even meet at "The Peoples Republic" in Cambridge. :lol:

[Nachie]

Having said all that, in answer to your question, if people from RAAN want to chat with me in the Boston area, I would be willing. We could even meet at "The Peoples Republic" in Cambridge.
Disgustapated I might be able to do that, would you like to help do a joint screening for a film about Venezuela? I don't know anything about "venues" up there but I hear the Harvard Social Forum is a nice space. If you can do a date within let's say the next month, I'll go up and we can do that shizzle.

In reference to the RAAN forum discussion: Now I'm surprised you've never run into NEFAC because Boston is really their "stronghold" in this country.

[Janus]

There's nothing on the site that the government couldn't already have if they wanted. Your cheesy security culture is pretty lame guys, like it wouldn't be easy to track you down whenever they felt like it. I think it does more harm than good for groups our size to make a big secret of it.
It's not a big secret. Like Miles said, other members from different areas could simply reveal themselves on the forum or someone could ask. No one said it was really secure to any degree.


Nobody said the CL site should have a list of members, just "a list of contacts that can be used to find info".
Someone could send an email or post on the League forum.


I'm not saying make discreet info public.
Barista.marxista was talking about discrete information earlier when he talked about detailed political structure and member info.


Correct me if I'm wrong, I just thought that's how you ended up joining.
No, I found out about the League through this site. What I meant was that people are more likely to join or find out about an organization that has some kind of presence in their area.


So if I go bust an A/S/L??? in the CL forum, that'd be a better way to find out whereabouts you guys are?
No. If you're looking for info. about possible contacts in an area, then you could simply post or send an email. Why are you making such a big deal out of this?

[Nachie]

I don't think it has been made into a big deal, I'm sorry if it appears that way.

RAAN is looking for groups around the country to collaborate with on a series of film screenings and other projects already underway (and it's impossible to find info on the CL in Google given the 1,000+ other historical groups with the same name); I just met with a member of NEFAC Baltimore yesterday, one day maybe I'll meet with Disgustapated.

[Sabocat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 10:43 AM

Having said all that, in answer to your question, if people from RAAN want to chat with me in the Boston area, I would be willing. We could even meet at "The Peoples Republic" in Cambridge.
Disgustapated I might be able to do that, would you like to help do a joint screening for a film about Venezuela? I don't know anything about "venues" up there but I hear the Harvard Social Forum is a nice space. If you can do a date within let's say the next month, I'll go up and we can do that shizzle.

In reference to the RAAN forum discussion: Now I'm surprised you've never run into NEFAC because Boston is really their "stronghold" in this country.
Depending on the size of the venue you think you need, a couple of good choices might be the Center for Marxist Education (right on Mass Ave in Cambridge) Link (http://www.bookmarx.org/events.htm)

Perhaps another venue would be the Lucy Parsons center in the South end of Boston (not to be confused with Southie ;) ) They have a lot of films there and are pretty open to leftist events. They are also a meeting spot for the local IWW.

See their site here (http://www.lucyparsons.org/)


Maybe I have run into Nefac'ers and not known. Most of the people I see at the various anti-Nazi rallies and immigration marches have been RCP'ers, SWP'ers, SPUSA'ers, and once in a while SEP'ers.

[LoneRed]

Firstly the google search left you fruitless because the hackers got the league site as well and we havent got it back up yet. Also like I said if people are interested in the League in certain areas we get them in contact with members in that area.

Also, dont you worry about where we are active, I would say from California to New Jersey, and all over in between

[Nachie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 05:35 PM
Maybe I have run into Nefac'ers and not known. Most of the people I see at the various anti-Nazi rallies and immigration marches have been RCP'ers, SWP'ers, SPUSA'ers, and once in a while SEP'ers.
I think that at antifa events they tend to just mix in with ARA and not come out as a presence of their own. They're involved mainly in tenant organizing if I'm not mistaken, but I've never worked with that branch. I believe Boston has definitely always been at the core of NEFAC, though.


Firstly the google search left you fruitless because the hackers got the league site as well and we havent got it back up yet.
Actually I think it's because the CL isn't mentioned on any websites other than their own.


Also, dont you worry about where we are active, I would say from California to New Jersey, and all over in between
Hey what a coincidence, us too! Would CLers in Jersey like to meet up with RAANistas for that kickball game?

[LoneRed]

I would say that because the organization is still relatively new and given the time we've had i say we've had enormous success.

Also I dont know, I havent talked to the members in Jersey, I was merely trying to state that we are everywhere,

you better watch your goddamn back when you're in the shower, eatin at a picnic, watch you back... make a right.

[Nachie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 06:14 PM
you better watch your goddamn back when you're in the shower, eatin at a picnic, watch you back... make a right.
This is all the stranger because I just came out of the shower, but it still doesn't make any sense. :blink:

You guys have been around for 5 years, right?

[Sabocat]

If memory serves, I think the League was founded in November of 2004

[Nachie]

Oh snap, Janus told me 2001. :blush:

2004 makes a lot more sense; I had never heard about the CL before coming on this forum. Did it form out of a BBS like revleft? That's actually how RAAN got started.

[LoneRed]

Your gonna have to ask Miles about that one, It didnt start from a message board I dont think


sorry nachie for you not understanding that, It was the right point to say it.. but its from Money Talks .. great movie

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 12:56 AM
I think it does more harm than good for groups our size to make a big secret of it.
I think it does more harm than good that it is neccessary to use the plural 'groups' when talking about a Far Left your size

[Nachie]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 18 2006, 08:55 PM
I think it does more harm than good that it is neccessary to use the plural 'groups' when talking about a Far Left your size
Such is the marvel of the Internet: a new "revolutionary organization" springs up every week.

Anyway most days I would agree with you.

[Janus]

Oh snap, Janus told me 2001.
My mistake, Nachie. CL didn't begin as an actual organization. I said 2001 because that's when Miles and other members began getting together. However, it didn't become a formal organization until a few years ago. Sorry about the confusion.


Did it form out of a BBS like revleft?
I know that the CL was formed out of a discussion group. It may have been online or an actual one, I can't remember.


That's actually how RAAN got started.
Cool. :) When was RAAN formally formed?

[Janus]

Would CLers in Jersey like to meet up with RAANistas for that kickball game?
You'll have to talk with the New Jersey members since I don't live there though I'm sure it would be pretty fun.

[Nachie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 05:52 AM
Cool. :) When was RAAN formally formed?
That's kind of a weird question: On May 25 2002 we announced the idea and began collaborating on it via online discussions, though at that time there was no structure or set ideology. We did a couple different fundraisers and stuff but our collective founding document wasn't ready until early 2003 so depending on how you define the network, we began in either early 2002 or 2003. I usually use the 2002 date even though at that point we hadn't gotten rid of the Lennies.

[LoneRed]

hadnt gotten rid of the lennies? so some of your friends were lennies or people in the group and you kicked them out? way to make comrades....

[Nachie]

RAAN came together as a random project between anarchist news site chimx.com and communist news site kazm.net

Many of the readers of kazm.net were Leninists, including Stalinists and Maoists. One of them was even Tragic Clown, who of course has hated us ever since. Everyone participated in the discussions that led to the authoring of our founding text the P&D, and over the course of these discussions we tried to figure out what would be the "uniting ideology" for a workable alliance between anarchists and communists. Among the various conclusions and results was a total rejection of Leninism and Leninists.

They do not and never did fall into the categories of "friends", "people in the group", or "comrades".

[chimx]

i&#39;m so happy you guys are all getting along again. <3

[Nachie]

Well my warn rating is at 100% due to all the ridiculous blehgackery that has occured on these forums, so really I suspect to be suspended any day now. You might say this should give me free license to go out like a raving lunatic, but instead I have calmly accepted the extreme knavery of this site&#39;s management and decided to protest it solely by making all posts in the nude.

:hammer:

[Janus]

Nachie and barista.marxista,

Now that we have discussed the CL and its actions , etc. Do you guys still think that CL is Leninist, or can we put this behind us now?

[Nachie]

I repeat again, I don&#39;t call the CL "Leninist". My entire critique of the CL and groups like it is:

1. A "soft" stance on Leninism or a refusal to define anti-Leninist positions leads to the influence of Bolshevism in the group.

2. It is the modern Leninist tactic to often drop the term "Leninist" and integrate Bolshevism into Marxism itself.

3. Hence in any loosely-defined Marxist or anarchist alliance there will be an internal contradiction between reformism & vanguardism, and revolutionary anti-politics.

4. This makes said organization either go bust, or harden into a sect of Leninists in all but name.

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 04:43 PM
hadnt gotten rid of the lennies? so some of your friends were lennies or people in the group and you kicked them out? way to make comrades....
<_< My God man...urrgh...people like you destroy my belief in the inherent goodness of mankind...

On so many levels are you wrong, hypocritical and an all-round douchebag

[LoneRed]

nice ad hominems man, I appreciate them

If you would read the entire thread of just reading the last couple maybe you would have said something intelligent, I guess that is too much to ask of you.

Nachie.. I also have some problems with the managment of this board, it seems as we agree on some things :/

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Why doesn&#39;t the CL and CPUSA merge? As well as SEP, SPE, and the SPUSA. One of the reasons communism and socialism are so unsucessful in America is because there are 15 different parties that are only slightly different in ideologie yet hate each other. If we balance everything than socialism and communism might have a chance in local elections

[KC]

I repeat again, I don&#39;t call the CL "Leninist". My entire critique of the CL and groups like it is:


You didn&#39;t but Barista did.



1. A "soft" stance on Leninism or a refusal to define anti-Leninist positions leads to the influence of Bolshevism in the group.

So far this hasn&#39;t happened, and I don&#39;t see it happening any time in the near future.



2. It is the modern Leninist tactic to often drop the term "Leninist" and integrate Bolshevism into Marxism itself.


This hasn&#39;t happened either.



3. Hence in any loosely-defined Marxist or anarchist alliance there will be an internal contradiction between reformism & vanguardism, and revolutionary anti-politics.


Nor this.



4. This makes said organization either go bust, or harden into a sect of Leninists in all but name.


Nor this. However, time will always tell with all four points. But I really don&#39;t see this happening any time soon.


Why doesn&#39;t the CL and CPUSA merge?

Because the CPUSA is full of a bunch of Khruschevite reformist hacks.

[LucioCabanas1938]

Yeah, that&#39;s what Che was all about. Winning elections. Please. I think Che would puke if he read half the crap &#39;radicals&#39; espouse nowadays.

Anyway, the CPUSA and SPUSA are full of old farts, queers, bra-burners, hippies, washed up black panthers, and a bunch of other has-beens and politically correct dopes who are never going to destroy capitalism. They seem to have forgotten the focus on ending economic exploitation, and instead prefer to pander to certain groups in hopes of a quick way to generate some appeal among people since all their ideas are so fucking old and stale.

I do agree that we should work on common ground among various sects, although most existing &#39;radical&#39; parties nowadays (such as the above) are full of shit and never get anything done.

[Nachie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 06:07 AM
queers
is that a bad thing?

[LucioCabanas1938]

They ***** and moan like they&#39;re the fucking downtrodden of the earth. If they wouldn&#39;t be so goddamned fruity and obnoxious, maybe people wouldn&#39;t give a shit what they like to do after hours. And yes, I know there are queers that don&#39;t talk with a lisp or have limp wrists, although unfortunately, I&#39;ve found them to be the minority.

They, along with all these other groups, hijacked our cause.

[chimx]

that&#39;s fucked up dude.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 04:36 PM
that&#39;s fucked up dude.
I agree, wtf?

[Janus]

I repeat again, I don&#39;t call the CL "Leninist".
That was addressed to barista.marxista as well. I&#39;m wondering if we can put this business behind us and proceed to discuss more professionally rather than wasting time on all this nonsense.

[LucioCabanas1938]

If you starbucks revolutionaries would spend more time organizing the workers and less time going to gay pride parades, maybe we&#39;d be somewhere. Screw it. We really don&#39;t need bourgeousie to make a revolution. Keep marching under your rainbow flag, I&#39;ll march under the red flag.

[chimx]

thanks. i would appreciate that flag distinction so it would be more clear which homophobic fuckwad to bash over the head with a hammer when the time comes.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 07:08 PM
If you starbucks revolutionaries would spend more time organizing the workers and less time going to gay pride parades, maybe we&#39;d be somewhere. Screw it. We really don&#39;t need bourgeousie to make a revolution. Keep marching under your rainbow flag, I&#39;ll march under the red flag.
I think you will find that the majority if not all of us here are proletarian and most of us come from working class backgrounds. Your position is reactionary and shows your complete ignorance, you deserve nothing more than to swing in the morning breeze.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

As a non-citizen resident of the United States during these times of national surveilece, heightened federal security, rampant fear of terrorism, and anti-immigration sentiment from many Americans, I appreciate the League&#39;s clandestine structure. That said, I am unafraid to say that in Northwest Florida, there are two, and perhaps most recently a third, League sympathizer. We&#39;ve spoken at local demonstrations, distributed Communist League literature to local activists, immigrant workers, students, and proletarians in the area.

[LoneRed]

it seems Like Florida is doing well, as far as the league is concerned. keep it up comrade&#33;

[Janus]

Well, for a deep South, Bible belt state, it&#39;s doing pretty well. There are a lot of workers including migrant workers. There was a pretty good response for the immigration marches as well.

[Sabocat]

Why doesn&#39;t the CL and CPUSA merge? As well as SEP, SPE, and the SPUSA. One of the reasons communism and socialism are so unsucessful in America is because there are 15 different parties that are only slightly different in ideologie yet hate each other.

Hmmm...well maybe because we don&#39;t support Democrats in bourgeois show elections, and we are not a Trot organization.


If we balance everything than socialism and communism might have a chance in local elections

Thanks, but no thanks.

[RNK]

Tell me again how berating each other helps Communism?

You fucks will never go anywhere because you&#39;re too busy arguing who the elite few should be that actually goes. Trotskyists, Anarchists, Leninists, Maoists, who the fuck cares?

People like you are the neo-bourgeous of the Leftist movement. Good luck with that.

[LoneRed]

neo-bourgeois, do you know what the fuck that even means? no, your just trying to paint people as certain things to make them look bad. If you would look at what the league is all about you would realize that we dont get into that sectarian horseshit, thats what WE are SAYING&#33;