The end of banannas...

[Cloud]

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0719-02.htm

This is a sad day, the death of the bananna... :( :( :( :(

[drain.you]

Thats crazy. I cant imagine that happening though. There will be a way to save the banana surely? :-|

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

This is what happens when you reproduce by cloning.

[Janus]

Thats crazy. I cant imagine that happening though. There will be a way to save the banana surely
I'm pretty sure this is only about the Cavendish banana or the most popular one.

Cultivated bananas are sterile so we currently remove and transplant the corm or underground stem. I have never heard of outright extinction though certain types such as the Cavendish, the most popular type, will probably become unviable for large-scale production. Furthermore, different types of bananas can be developed that are more resistant to certain diseases.


This is what happens when you reproduce by cloning.
Cloning?

[Janus]

Here are two articles that disprove this lie.

American Phytopathological Society (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-02/aps-ppu021403.php)

Food and Agricultural Organization of the UN (http://www.fao.org/english/newsroom/news/2003/13120-en.html)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 09:44 PM

This is what happens when you reproduce by cloning.
Cloning?
Yes, since a lot of bananas do not have seeds cuttings have to be made, effectively making them clones.

[Enragé]

"Published on Saturday, July 19, 2003"

"The banana is about to disappear from store shelves around the globe"

:lol:

still...
scary people this topic scared me :*(

[Cloud]

I dont think this is a lie reardless to the other articles. It seems perfectly possible, and very likely that scientists could mess up the enviromental way for banannas. And im not sure what can be done to save the "merchandised" banannas considering they are the ones who now cant reproduce or protect from disease.

[Janus]

Like I said, certain types of bananas have become economically unviable and therefore have become "extinct" to consumers. This may occur with the Cavendish banana but bananas in general aren't going to dissappear off the face of the Earth.


And im not sure what can be done to save the "merchandised" banannas considering they are the ones who now cant reproduce or protect from disease.
Some types are quite resistant to disease and will probably become more popular.

[MysticArcher]

The article has a correct premise: monoculture growth is in fact very bad for population's resistance to pathogens

But then it makes the turn into crazy town:

In 1995, biologists warned that changing the genetic makeup of a plant is like playing with fire. Even so, genetic alteration continues.


The disappearance of the banana should be a wakeup call -- to what can result from reckless genetic manipulation, complacency and inattention.

Also the number of times it uses the words "genetic tampering", as if genes in nature are some sort of sacred item.


The solution is in fact more genetic engineering; if the costs is low enough instead of a monoculture of engineered plants you could generate a diverse population by manipulating many plants from a diverse sample

Or you could try making a monoculture starting population and rapidly mutating it, but that would involve a lot of screening afterwards.

[Janus]

Also the number of times it uses the words "genetic tampering", as if genes in nature are some sort of sacred item.
Yes, you just made a good point. This smacks of anti-genetic engineering or Ludditism as Severian likes to call it.

[Cloud]

Or you could try making a monoculture starting population and rapidly mutating it, but that would involve a lot of screening afterwards.

Im not sure what you mean by mutating them. If you mean by mutating them back into their natural state, then im not nessecarily how exact that could be. Considering they would be more "artificial" rather then natural anywho. And for me (I do not trust many aspects of science might i add) i would never eat a mutated bananna, fruit is made to be natural.

[pedro san pedro]

Yes, you just made a good point. This smacks of anti-genetic engineering or Ludditism as Severian likes to call it.

actually this was something that was very much bought into the mainstream by the pro-ge side of the debate and used as an arguement for ge... "if we don't put our faith in ge, we will loose the banana".

as ge definately encourages monoculture and less diversity within populations, most people with an understanding of the issue saw it as an arguement against ge.imagine if we ended up with only one strain of corn or wheat or whatever and a disease came along that that strain was particulaly vunerable to....

[Janus]

Yes, there is a problem with genetically modified crops in that aspect. It does tend to reduce biodiversity, which is something that is crucial in the agricultural world. Therefore, I don't think that we should depend on one agricultural method alone but promote other techniques such as organic farming as well.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 12:32 AM

Or you could try making a monoculture starting population and rapidly mutating it, but that would involve a lot of screening afterwards.

Im not sure what you mean by mutating them. If you mean by mutating them back into their natural state, then im not nessecarily how exact that could be. Considering they would be more "artificial" rather then natural anywho. And for me (I do not trust many aspects of science might i add) i would never eat a mutated bananna, fruit is made to be natural.
Do you know that the Appeal to Nature is a fallacy? Scorpion venom is natural too, does that mean it's safe to drink a pint of it?


as ge definately encourages monoculture and less diversity within populations, most people with an understanding of the issue saw it as an arguement against ge.imagine if we ended up with only one strain of corn or wheat or whatever and a disease came along that that strain was particulaly vunerable to....

You can also use GE to produce different strains of whatever you want, and by allowing them to reproduce naturally, as opposed to cloning them via cuttings and transplantation will preserve genetic diversity.

The problems inherent in GE plants are not unsolvable.

[Iroquois Xavier]

You can take my money and you can take my dignity but dont take my banana! :wacko:

[LSD]

I honestly don't see how anyone can point to this situation as an argument against genetic modification, as pretty much the only way to reverse this "conventional" problem is through the use of genetic technologies.

http://www.worldgrower.com/news/news_story.ehtml?o=186

And insofar as genetic modification promoting "monoculture", it does nothing of the kind. Capitalism promotes monoculture and, as was seen in this instance, does not need genetic technologies to do so.

Arguing against progress because it will be wielded by capitalist hands is pure and utter primitivist idealism.

It doesn't matter what the scientist "believes in", social evolution is dictated by material conditions and the more that humanity technologically advances the more that it will politically advance.

The two really are inseperable.

[RevSouth]

Honestly, it is a bit of a double edged sword. As the article said, the banana was barely edible when humans first encountered it thousands of years ago. But over time, we've made it more and more edible, until we've reached the pinnacle of all bananas (interesting sentence). Though, we have also rendered it defenceless in the face of pests and disease. And yes, I know, the most change occured in the past fifty or so years.