Just cause' we aren't rich... [Archive]

R_P_A_S

15th May 2006, 07:50

I don't know how some of you live, how financially stable you gusy are. But Im basically living by the pay check. I aspire to one day get a good deal produce some records and start generating some income I truly believe I deserve!

But for now is doing the shit job, go to college and always go after the best deal and opportunity. "to make that money!"

So I'm asking do we turn to this ideas of Socialism, Communism, etc. Just because we are frustrated that it seems everyone around us has money and "nice things" and we don't? Is this our way of dealing with the fact that maybe we aren't cut out for the corporate/capitalist world? that we protest and say its unfair and "cry about it?"

Now I'm not saying You guys or even I. are bunch of loser who dont make enough money to buy "nice things" and live a good life. Like I said, I dont know how you guys live. But Im asking this because I had a conversation with a co-worker and he said that people who believe in communism and all that stuff are just sore losers who can't go out and take advantage of the opportunities the world offers.

I don't believe him! but just the fact that he said that. It made me think a bit about the possiblity that maybe some people, including my self are turning into this because we are frustrated and gave up on not being ahead of the line with the rest of the wealthy.

How do you guys feel?

England Expects

15th May 2006, 16:12

Some enlightened individuals think that academia mainly leans to the left out of jealousy. Apparently academics are jealous of succesfull entreprenuers and they dislike the system which offers higher financial rewards to those who they see as less intelligent.

Just take a look at the tossers who made the final 4 of the apprentice. 3 of which struck me as pretty ordinary at best. Their only apparent skill of note is lying to others and themselves. The eventual winner seemed to have her head screwed on but was still no rocket scientist. She is walking into a 100k pa job, more than most academics in the UK.

Academics spend their whole life in education recieving higher rewards, in the shape of grades etc, than people like this and then resent the fact that some people out there are willing to pay more money for other peoples services.

Enragé

15th May 2006, 16:54

the sore-loser argument is a load of crap.

its like saying
"well you guys are just pissed off because you're starving to death"

we arent sore losers. We arent even losers. We just want a different world, a fair world, a world in which justice reigns and everyone gets what he or she needs, and everyone works together, as hard as he or she can, to make the world a better place, for all.

believe me, if i would turn cappie i could make alot more money than i do now, especially in the future.
i myself am able to be "succesful", that is, to exploit. I refuse to do this, because i stand on the side of the exploited, against the exploiters.

gosh what a loser am i.

England Expects

15th May 2006, 17:24

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 04:22 PM
believe me, if i would turn cappie i could make alot more money than i do now, especially in the future.
i myself am able to be "succesful", that is, to exploit. I refuse to do this, because i stand on the side of the exploited, against the exploiters.
What do you actually do?

What could you do that you don't?

Orange Juche

15th May 2006, 18:38

Personally, I'm not a "sore loser." I'm actually probably going to drop community college to become a body piercer. If I wanted, I'm sure I could go through college and get a "decent" paying job.

I'd rather be happy with my work. "Things" are irrelevant to me, as long as I have enough to get by and not struggle to live - I don't care. Its not that I'm a sore loser, its that I don't place my happiness on an ability to aquire "things."

R_P_A_S

15th May 2006, 19:29

Yeah. I don't see it as being "sore losers" and giving up trying to work within the system. I too want fairness and equality for all, women, men, races, etc.

But the an other thing he said was "It's up to you to put your self in the right positions that best serve your interest and to get where you want to be in life, If all you do is complain about the rich and power and deside to stop right there because you feel life is not fair, and just choose to "go left" than is your fault not ot be able to adjust. look at everyone who worked hard to be where they are now."

I mean most of those people are freaking big time cappies and exploit their workers. like my boss!

Enragé

15th May 2006, 21:03

What do you actually do?

currently looking for a job.

Im a student

What could you do that you don't?

Easily, become a mid-level executive/manager and work my way up *i got the education for it* or work for the government.

(after i graduate that is)

but fuck that

i wont.

they can stick their fucking money up their asses :)

after the revolution, we'll burn it anyway :P

"It's up to you to put your self in the right positions that best serve your interest and to get where you want to be in life, If all you do is complain about the rich and power and deside to stop right there because you feel life is not fair, and just choose to "go left" than is your fault not ot be able to adjust. look at everyone who worked hard to be where they are now."

- i dont want to either be exploited or exploit myself. I dont want to be stolen from, nor do i want to steal. Is that so hard to understand?

- we dont just complain and sit back. We take action and try to change things

- why should i want to adjust to a world filled with greed, hate and fear? We should try to change it.

- oh and you're saying that all those thousands, millions, if not billions who toiled away in factories, on the fields etc didnt work hard?
Also what you get in this society for your work is decided by supply and demand. Its not about how much you work, its about how many people can do your work, and how many people want you to. And think about this; if someone is born cripple, you do not hold it against him, but if someone is born with less physical strength than someone else, or less intelligence, he gets a shittier life...is that fair? Is that person any less of a human being than you and me?

England Expects

15th May 2006, 21:37

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 08:31 PM

Easily, become a mid-level executive/manager and work my way up *i got the education for it* or work for the government.

(after i graduate that is)

So you couldn't actually do it at the moment?

Enragé

15th May 2006, 21:41

Originally posted by England Expects+May 15 2006, 09:05 PM--> (England Expects @ May 15 2006, 09:05 PM)
[email protected] 15 2006, 08:31 PM

Easily, become a mid-level executive/manager and work my way up *i got the education for it* or work for the government.

(after i graduate that is)

So you couldn't actually do it at the moment? [/b]
nope

pretty obvious if i havent graduated yet

i dont even know if i will, it seems....useless at times..but then again some of the things i learn are really interesting and provides me with new insight

Tungsten

15th May 2006, 21:49

NewKindOfSoldier

Also what you get in this society for your work is decided by supply and demand.
That's the price you pay for living in a free society.

And think about this; if someone is born cripple, you do not hold it against him, but if someone is born with less physical strength than someone else, or less intelligence, he gets a shittier life...is that fair?
He gets a shittier life thanks to who?

saint max

16th May 2006, 09:57

I think I may be somewhat of "sore loser," although I never consented to the game. So perhaps sore-player, or bored is a better explanation. Nonetheless, I think the simple causal-relationship of revolt is worth examining and from my particular anarchist perspective and positionality globally, it's more like being a sore-winner. Eitherway it's an ontological position, and it's satisifed only an an affirmative nihilism. Read Cammus' Rebel much? Besides who's to tell anyone why they should revolt or how? It's game of power-play and trangressive experiments of freedom.

kisses,
-t

Red Polak

16th May 2006, 19:18

I'm not pissed off because I "lost".

I'm pissed off because of the injustice which exists in the world, because of hate, murder, oppression and slavery.

No it's not all happening directly to me (I'm still in school) so does that mean I should turn a blind eye to it all and just get on with living a materialistic, capitalistic false life, whilst the situation around me gets steadily worse and worse?

greymatter

16th May 2006, 20:18

It doesn't have anything to do with fairness! I'm a communist because I believe that it's in my self interest, and the self interest of everyone who sells their labour to emancipate ourselves (economically as well as politically) from the bourgeoisie. It's about creating a society that allows people to enjoy the fruits of their own labour. Equalization for all is a pipe dream, freedom for all isn't.

Enragé

16th May 2006, 23:10

That's the price you pay for living in a free society.

:lol:

good one

thats like a nazi saying in hitler's germany

"well sorry we have to kill all the jews, but thats the price you pay for living in a tolerant society"

He gets a shittier life thanks to who?

Thanks to a society which decides whether someone gets alot or not based on his contribution to the material wealth of the elite, even though some people cant work harder.

so
fuck capitalism ;)

Shiroryuu

17th May 2006, 02:22

I'm a socialist because they are my beliefs, I don't care about that whole corporate stuff, even if I could, I would never work in such jobs anyway, its not what I like to do. I'm sure this has been said like billions of times but a doctor earns alot of money for his job, yet the garbage man earns dirt compared to him but his job is equally important.

Tungsten

17th May 2006, 17:40

NewKindOfSoldier

good one

thats like a nazi saying in hitler's germany

"well sorry we have to kill all the jews, but thats the price you pay for living in a tolerant society"
Let's see...supply and demand....massacre of six million Jews. Is there supposed to be a connection?

Are you suggesting that supply and demand is somehow contrary to freedom? Explain how.

Thanks to a society which decides whether someone gets alot or not based on his contribution to the material wealth of the elite,
I'm not sure who this elite is. Are you referring to the government? If so, then I think you've got it backwards. You have to earn money before they can take it off you, or before you can give it to them.

so
fuck capitalism ;)
I don't think you're going to contribute anything of value to this debate, somehow.

Enragé

17th May 2006, 20:21

Let's see...supply and demand....massacre of six million Jews. Is there supposed to be a connection?

freedom is as contrary to capitalism as tolerance is to nazism

Are you suggesting that supply and demand is somehow contrary to freedom? Explain how.

not just supply and demand, the whole capitalist system.

You are forced to do things you do not want to do because if you dont you are poor and if you are poor you're worth jack shit, and worst of all the things you are forced to do dont benefit society as a whole but the elite.

I'm not sure who this elite is. Are you referring to the government?

Elite/bourgeoisie; those owning the means of production (factories, offices etc)

the government is but a mere extension of this elite.

Tungsten

18th May 2006, 18:03

NewKindOfSoldier

freedom is as contrary to capitalism as tolerance is to nazism
What are you not free to do that bothers you?

not just supply and demand, the whole capitalist system.

You are forced to do things you do not want to do
How are you forced?

Elite/bourgeoisie; those owning the means of production (factories, offices etc)

the government is but a mere extension of this elite.
I suggest you start by throwing away whatever book you're quoting this crap from and start using reality as your frame of reference instead. The government and "those owning the means of production" are often in conflict with one another and in most cases, their interests are the exact opposite. They do not act spontaneously as a class. Anyone who thinks that, say, the owner of IBM or Apple is going to stick up for the owner of Microsoft because they're from the same "class" is living in a dream world.

The other end of society is no different; workers of all levels are trying to rip each other off at every available opportunity and people are always on the look out for a free lunch without caring who really pays for it; "pork barreling" is a testimony to this. When the shit hits the fan, or if one section of any class is promised something at the expense of the other, any "class solidarity" that does exist will break quicker than a 16 year old Iraqi conscript.

Dyst

18th May 2006, 18:53

What are you not free to do that bothers you?

Dear blind one.

This depends a little bit on your "status" (class), but most people are not allowed to do what they want at all.

- You go to school for more than 20 years (about 7,500 days). Wisdom is determined by how much you can memorize for exams and tests. All day long you get bossed around by a control freak who can't do, therefore teach.

- You get to choose between twenty alternatives of what you want to do for the rest of your life. If for some reason you failed at bending over and recieving the omniscience of your "instructor" (authority) at school, your choices will be limited and you are assured a life of misery.

- You go to work and do the same thing for 35 years (about 10,000 days). You create products you will never see. You get bossed around by someone who does not work. Depending on their salary, most people are either able to buy food and clothes for only themselves, or food and clothes for themselves and their closest family.

- People who fails to follow the "guidelines" (such as the points above) are sent to yet another cage, prison, because they obviously need to be able to make a living.

Freedom does not exist.

Tungsten

19th May 2006, 01:16

Dyst

This depends a little bit on your "status" (class), but most people are not allowed to do what they want at all.
Well, no, you're not allowed to do "whatever you want" and probably for good reason. What are you not free to do that bothers you? Be specific.

- You go to school for more than 20 years (about 7,500 days). Wisdom is determined by how much you can memorize for exams and tests. All day long you get bossed around by a control freak who can't do, therefore teach.
I don't see how this is the fault of capitailsm (the free market). For starters, I believe it was the left that blessed us all with "free", complusory schooling, so what are you complaining about? There shouldn't be any compulsion to go to school in a free society, but we're not really living in one anymore.

- You get to choose between twenty alternatives of what you want to do for the rest of your life. If for some reason you failed at bending over and recieving the omniscience of your "instructor" (authority) at school, your choices will be limited and you are assured a life of misery.
There's only twenty occupations is there? How will you be assured a life of misery?

Did the teacher choose your occupation for you? :blink:

- You go to work and do the same thing for 35 years (about 10,000 days). You create products you will never see.
You can't be much of a worker if you don't even see the products you're supposedly creating.

You get bossed around by someone who does not work.
I assume you're referring to the "bosses". They do work, they just do different work to you. It might not be something you recognise as work, usually because you don't actually know what they do. It's pretty universal phenomenon. I've lost count of the number of labourers I've met who insist that all office staff "don't do real work" because they don't produce something "tangible".

- People who fails to follow the "guidelines" (such as the points above) are sent to yet another cage, prison, because they obviously need to be able to make a living.
I haven't followed them and I'm not in any cage.

Freedom does not exist.
The freedom to do what? You still haven't said.

redstar2000

19th May 2006, 04:18

Originally posted by Tungsten
For starters, I believe it was the left that blessed us all with "free", compulsory schooling, so what are you complaining about?

The "left"? Massachusetts passed the first law that towns with more than 500 families were required to provide public English high schools in 1827.

The "modern" high school, modeled after Prussia dates from the reign of Horace Mann and the first state board of education, also in Massachusetts, in 1837.

To be sure, Mann was a "progressive" by the standards of his era...publicly opposed to slavery, for example.

There is no record of him being "influenced" by Marx. :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

Oh-Dae-Su

19th May 2006, 05:26

the facts are simple, intelligence does not mean you deserve anything in this world, what are you an aspiring singer or something? you say you hope to someday get a record deal, and i must say thats respectable, but some of the most successfull artists out there didn't get their big break before going through tough hardships.....but you have chosen a very tough hard business that the possibilities of triumph are slim to none unless you really are a skillfull musician and that the public actually likes your music, if not sorry even though you think music is your life, if it doesnt sell it DOESNT SELL!!

but anyways, for all others, like i said intelligence doesn't mean anything if you don't have good work ethics and actually have achieved something, achievements are what is measured in the current world instead of intelligence....iv talked about this before, for example, you might be a genius, but if you just dropped out of high school at 17 to become an aspiring musician, while the guy less intelligent than you but he got his high school diploma and then went to college and graduated from college with an education, unless you already got you big break (which like i said is unlikely unless you really are a talented musician) the less intelligent guy with a high school diploma and a college diploma has countless more opportunities than you who dropped out of high school...thats just how the world works, and frankly i think thats how it should be...you can be a genius but be lazy as hell, and there is a dumbass but he studies like a pig and gets a career..

B.E. Jones

19th May 2006, 07:50

Your friends "Sore Loser" arguement is hardly the case, because I am in fact quite financially stable. I have a decent size house, I pay the bills, and I live a productive life. My dad owns a fairly large produce company and because of that when I was being raised I lived in a very "Bubble-like" community where all the inhabitants could easily qualify as bourgeoisie (including my father which I in turn lost some respect for him for). When I hit about 15 My dad offered me a job at his produce warhouse, where I lifted crates onto loading lines, and worked machinary to dispose of garbage. At that same time my older brother who was about 19 at the time had a job at my dad's corporate office about a block or 2 down the street. My brothers job consisted of a 5-7 hour day in which he sat and basically relayed distributions details from executive to executive ( a position that makes no realy sense in even having available!). I made about $5.15 an hour with no taxes because it was part time. My brother made $17.75 an hour...

That is the realy bullshit, the fact that my coworkers in that warehouse were working to support large families in order to survive! Gets a significantly smaller salary to a executive's son who is working to just get some pocket change he will most likely spend on something completly unneccisary!

Well. my father as I grew older offered my that position at the office and I always refused and every saturday morning and all through the week in the summer I worked in the warehouse for 5.50 a hour. Though I care deeply for my brother and father I lost a large ammount of respect for them and that system that year.
It's a fucking crime.

Excuse my grammar, and also my poor organization it's late <_<

overlord

19th May 2006, 09:10

It's a fucking crime.

Hmmmmmm, looks like big brother is gonna inherit the family factory unless babykins smartens up his attitude and realises the unique position of power and prestige in which he has found himself and learns the trade in order to start having some fun torturing his workers with repetitive meaningless tasks.

That is the realy bullshit, the fact that my coworkers in that warehouse were working to support large families in order to survive!

Poor people shouldn't have children. That's the real crime against society. We wouldn't have the starvation in Africa.

England Expects

19th May 2006, 14:02

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2006, 07:21 PM

not just supply and demand, the whole capitalist system.

You are forced to do things you do not want to do
Like work.

Lazy little boy.

England Expects

19th May 2006, 14:05

Originally posted by B.E. [email protected] 19 2006, 06:50 AM
My brothers job consisted of a 5-7 hour day in which he sat and basically relayed distributions details from executive to executive ( a position that makes no realy sense in even having available!). I made about $5.15 an hour with no taxes because it was part time. My brother made $17.75 an hour...

That is the realy bullshit, the fact that my coworkers in that warehouse were working to support large families in order to survive! Gets a significantly smaller salary to a executive's son who is working to just get some pocket change he will most likely spend on something completly unneccisary!

Well. my father as I grew older offered my that position at the office and I always refused and every saturday morning and all through the week in the summer I worked in the warehouse for 5.50 a hour. Though I care deeply for my brother and father I lost a large ammount of respect for them and that system that year.
It's a fucking crime.

Shouldn't people be allowed to spend their income on anything they want? Anything fulfilling?

Careful you don't show your true colours now Herr Von Jones

Dyst

19th May 2006, 14:16

I assume you're referring to the "bosses". They do work, they just do different work to you. It might not be something you recognise as work, usually because you don't actually know what they do. It's pretty universal phenomenon. I've lost count of the number of labourers I've met who insist that all office staff "don't do real work" because they don't produce something "tangible".

Their work is trading and ordering the workers.

They do not create, therefore do not offer anything productive to society, regardless of what you might think.

People insist on this because it is an obvious fact.

England Expects

19th May 2006, 14:31

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 01:16 PM

I assume you're referring to the "bosses". They do work, they just do different work to you. It might not be something you recognise as work, usually because you don't actually know what they do. It's pretty universal phenomenon. I've lost count of the number of labourers I've met who insist that all office staff "don't do real work" because they don't produce something "tangible".

Their work is trading and ordering the workers.

They do not create, therefore do not offer anything productive to society, regardless of what you might think.

People insist on this because it is an obvious fact.
You are an idiot.

Good management improves efficiency.
Improved efficiency increases the level of output from any given batch of resources.

Does this strike you as creating anything?
Does this strike you as offering anything productive to society?

Obvious fact? Nonsense.

Dyst

19th May 2006, 14:36

Originally posted by England [email protected] 19 2006, 07:31 PM
You are an idiot.

Good management improves efficiency.
Improved efficiency increases the level of output from any given batch of resources.

Does this strike you as creating anything?
Does this strike you as offering anything productive to society?
Thanks. Being called an idiot, by you, is quite a nice compliment.

They do not create anything, and you have said nothing wich implies otherwise.

England Expects

19th May 2006, 14:39

Why does increased production not represent creating something to you?

Tungsten

19th May 2006, 14:46

Dyst

Their work is trading and ordering the workers.
Even it that was true, co-ordination of labour is mostly necessary in large scale production or operations.

They do not create, therefore do not offer anything productive to society, regardless of what you might think.
You've just alienated a lot of people. i.e. most office staff, quality controllers, sales persons, scientists, technicians, maintainence workers etc. Your revolutionary band isn't going to be very big by the time you've finished.

And why haven't you answered the question I requested?

Dyst

19th May 2006, 15:09

The freedom of being able to have, in at least a small part, something to say in regards to what you want to do for today, whenever you wake up.

Why does increased production not represent creating something to you?

Because it isn't. You can take away the "increasers of production" and still stand left with production, but if you take away the workers you got nothing.

England Expects

19th May 2006, 15:10

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 02:09 PM
The freedom of being able to have, in at least a small part, something to say in regards to what you want to do for today, whenever you wake up.
Answer my question too, boy.

overlord

20th May 2006, 02:02

DYST

Because it isn't. You can take away the "increasers of production" and still stand left with production, but if you take away the workers you got nothing.

If the workers are the body and you take away the management, you are taking away the body's brain so you still get nothing.

I like your avatar BTW.

B.E. Jones

20th May 2006, 04:31

First off overlord.

I refuse to take any inheritance, secondly insults will get you no where this is a "opposing Ideologies" forum are objective here is to discuss like with at least some respect for others. If you only respond with such things as "babykins" and mockery of input then go fuck yourself, theres no point to your being here.

I hope you end up happy in your two stroy house in suburbia, with a useless middle management job glorifying how fair it is for people who have 2x your ambtion and a better work ethic sit in facotries to support there family.

P.S. Poor people deserve to have children more than you do, I hope your bastard children choke on that silver spoon, I hope they end up becoming spoiled suburban brats who get strung out on drugs and end up dieing in a gutter somewhere just because their well of dad doesnt "understand"

I can be a asshole to.

Pardon my grammar again friends

greymatter

20th May 2006, 05:57

THAT got out of hand rather quickly. Let's keep it in mind that this is just an internet forum from now on. Okay?

The Grey Blur

20th May 2006, 12:44

Communism is not based on the poor man's envy of the rich man - it is based on the fundamental principle of equality

overlord

20th May 2006, 14:34

I refuse to take any inheritance,

:o OMG!! OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is incredible. I already have a midcap inheritance but its in properties and am using rent cashflow to buy good stock at bottom pivot points.
BUT I WOULD LOVE TO OWN A FACTORY/WAREHOUSE, (aint gunna happen unless i move to the turd world). I envy you man. Give me some workers to torture!Don't throw it away! Don't throw it away!

You're still a teenager. Most young idealists lose their socialism in their twenties. I was exactly like you!! Would it surprise everyone here to learn I used to be a socialist aged 13~17? Then I learnt the only reason I was a socialist is I thought it would be an easier life!!! (yeah right socialism = superficial glitter(John Kennedy)).

I hope you end up happy in your two stroy house in suburbia, with a useless middle management job glorifying how fair it is for people who have 2x your ambtion and a better work ethic sit in facotries to support there family.

Two storey house in suburbia! HA you don't know me. I don't want a McMansion with 2.5 kids. That's petty stuff for the prole scum. You don't know my insane capacity for the veneration of the higher ideals that ordinary humans don't even consider in their petty little workaholic life-times. I want to dominate the universe and thanks to capitalism, some ancient technology i may one day possess and some cloning it will happen in my lifetime. Thanks to capitalism cloning technology is proceeding faster than expected. Our technology is almost unique in human history. We are living better than anyone else in 400,000 years! Are you aware of the infinitesimal probability of being born at this moment? There ain't no 1000 years of dark ages ahead of us! We are all standing on the edge of immortality and you want to throw away the money needed to acheive it?!

P.S. Poor people deserve to have children more than you do, I hope your bastard children choke on that silver spoon, I hope they end up becoming spoiled suburban brats who get strung out on drugs and end up dieing in a gutter somewhere just because their well of dad doesnt "understand"

This generally happens to poor people's children which serves to illustrate my point excellently.

Dyst

20th May 2006, 14:50

If the workers are the body and you take away the management, you are taking away the body's brain so you still get nothing.

The workers are not the body and the management is not the brain. Don't make things up.

greymatter

20th May 2006, 18:13

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 20 2006, 11:44 AM
Communism is not based on the poor man's envy of the rich man - it is based on the fundamental principle of equality
Or the understanding that it is (or will be) in the self-interest of the working class to emancipate itself. Equality is a different story altogether.

Depends on how you look at it. :rolleyes:

B.E. Jones

20th May 2006, 22:49

Well Said story was about 3 years ago. I was trying to relate to the subject with a personal experiance. It just seems to me two arguements agaisnt most modern day Communists are in direct contradiction of each other.

A)Most Communists are rich and have no idea what they are talking about.

B)And the arguement posed here, As that most Communists are mostly poor people who "fail" at the capitalist system and are "sore losers"

Meh, it just doesnt seem very progressive to pick off the people who are communists, it would be more fitting to actually dispute the ideal of communism.

I'm a little out of it right now, but I hope I sensed sarcasm in your statement about torturing workers. Thats fucked up.

Messiah

21st May 2006, 08:53

Like work.

Lazy little boy.

Even if he were lazy, which he isn't, your statement is still rubbish. Are you actually going to sit there and tell me you'd rather work than do something you like? That you would rather spend time with your family, than work in a coal mine, or push paper in an office, 50 weeks on the year?

You say "lazy", I say smart. You have to be completely warped to prefer "work" over pelasure. Why not strive for society wherein all people are free, and a equal and are able and encouraged to enjoy life, not waste it away living paycheck to paycheck while their boss "manages" from his house Aspen? Please.

"Lazy" is just a slur used by people who are so brainwashed that they have been forced into feeling guilty for wanting to live life on their own terms.

R_P_A_S

18th July 2006, 23:19

I was about to post a similar thread. glad i found my old one. so yeah any new feelings in reguards t this subject?

Ragnar

19th July 2006, 01:36

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 01:55 PM
a world in which justice reigns and everyone gets what he or she needs,
That is a contradiction, When you wish to consume more the you produce, that means someone is(Involuntary) providing the difference. IE, you are a thief, a looter, of the surplus of another, witch is the exact opposite of justice. Need was no bearing in a just society, only what your earn by legitimate means.

red team

19th July 2006, 02:57

Like work.

Lazy little boy.

Nah, I rather scheme, bribe and backstab then tell my underlings they're lazy little boys/girls.
That's called management material in this world. It's a lot more cost effective than work don't you agree.

Zero

19th July 2006, 08:03

Way to revive an old post =P.

Anyway, I'm dirt poor. Though I'm not jelous of those who have money, and I'm exceedingly glad that I was born into a poor demographic. It's only those who physically start with nothing that will ever be able to mentally achieve everything. I.E. Kropotkin.

red team

19th July 2006, 08:51

Anyway, I'm dirt poor. Though I'm not jelous of those who have money, and I'm exceedingly glad that I was born into a poor demographic. It's only those who physically start with nothing that will ever be able to mentally achieve everything. I.E. Kropotkin.

That's not a very progressive position to take. If we're ever going to get to society where wealth is measured as progress toward achieving material abundance as opposed to now where wealth is measured against its opposite of scarcity and poverty you have to get over the idea that the labour of individuals is motivated through deprivation and slacken through personal material wealth.

I was never very poor, but coming from a middle class background I was motivated to work and study because I find my work interesting and materially progressive in that it reduces labour while achieving material output through technology. People shouldn't have to be motivated through the carrot and stick approach of either severe economic deprivation or rewards of decadent wealth that can't be spent in a hundred lifetimes. It's quite barbaric if you think about it. Better living through progressive use of technology is unfortunately lost to most people.

Zero

19th July 2006, 09:42

Originally posted by "red team"
That's not a very progressive position to take. If we're ever going to get to society where wealth is measured as progress toward achieving material abundance as opposed to now where wealth is measured against its opposite of scarcity and poverty you have to get over the idea that the labour of individuals is motivated through deprivation and slacken through personal material wealth.
I don't say that being poor is a revolutionary standpoint, or even a platform. I'm simply saying that I'd rather be dirt poor then filthy rich. For starters its a nicer community down here, and there isn't a dress code. Besides, I was born into a position that if I wanted something I would have to work tooth and nail to have it. That really helped me later on when my parents and I found more constant work, and I was able to buy what I wanted. I found that no matter what kind of propaganda that was placed in my head by advertising. I never really buy what I don't need.