Basque Nationalism

[Ander]

As I am half Basque, have a very nationalist grandfather, and have heard stories from my father, I think I know quite a bit about the struggles of the Basque people. From the supression of their culture and identity during the reign of Franco (with personal commentary from my dad) to being part of a country they have nothing to do with, Basques have had a hell of a time.

During the 60's, when my father was a student, he would get beaten by his teachers for speaking Basque instead of Spanish in class. I'm afraid to ask my grandparents about their own experiences, as they were alive during the peak of Franco's dictatorship. Who knows what kind of terrible stories they have to tell?

Although the earliest Basque nationalism dates back to the 1800's, by now it has evolved from a predominantly Conservative Catholic idea and now is dominated by leftists. I'm sure some of you have heard of ETA, the terrorist group that is responsible for many political killings in Spain. Or maybe Batasuna, their main political body? They are Socialist/Communist groups fighting for independence and the establishment of a Socialist state in the Basque region.

Personally I believe that Basques should begin by gaining more autonomy instead of being a region of Spain. From there progress can be made to eventually gain freedom for these people.

What do you all think? Let's stimulate some discussion here...if you don't know much about this, educate yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_nationalism

[FinnMacCool]

I am actually one of the few anarchists that believes nationalism is a good thing. If you believe that you have your own cultural identity distinct from another, you should do your best to preserve it. You just have to not be over zealous to the point where you forget about the class struggles of the workers on both sides of the coin.

I think a lot of people confuse love of country with love of government, which is why nationalism gets such a bad rep in leftist communites. But I personall am proud of my Scottish heritage and I don't think its made me more reactionary because of that.

[R_P_A_S]

you know what? this is crazy but I just recently started to get interested on finding out more about the Basque. My grandfathers family was from Spain and they had the last name "Aguirre" and were of Basque origin. When my brother when to Spain he confirm all this! So where can i find out about these people!?

[R_P_A_S]

you know what? this is crazy but I just recently started to get interested on finding out more about the Basque. My grandfathers family was from Spain and they had the last name "Aguirre" and were of Basque origin. When my brother when to Spain he confirm all this! So where can i find out about these people!?

[bcbm]

Gora Euskal Herria! Bietan jarrai!

I was following the Basque situation pretty closely over the past winter and read up on much of the history. There's this really great book "Matxinada: Basque Nationalism and Radical Youth Movements" that I reccomend. Lots of good general histories online as well that I can find if anyone is interested.

I think the Basques will probably follow the path Catalonia has taken and slowly gain more autonomy, perhaps paving the way for independence. The Spanish government is pretty much out of excuses for denying them this, now that ETA has ceased military operations.

[bolshevik butcher]

Hi, while there is progressive elements in teh basque naitonalist movment, I think it's worth noting some things about it's traditions and much of it's membership in the past. The founder of the basque natioanlist movment was a racist who would of deffinatley been a facist if he had have been alvie a few years later. He famously said that he preffered black people that spoke basque to spannish speakers that inhabited hte basque country which was basically him saying that he preffered a dog that talked basque to a person that spoke spanish. Also the Basque nationalist flag is based on the Union Jack, the founder of Basque natioanlism was a great admirer of the British empire and would of loved to form a great imperialist capitalist state in the Basque country. Also the Basque natioanlists fought for the facists i teh Spannish civil war. When the CNT was seizing factories and other palces of work and importance the Basque owners famously handed over the keys to Franco.

[bcbm]

Also the Basque natioanlists fought for the facists i teh Spannish civil war.

No they didn't. They fought with the Republicans but later made a seperate deal with Franco when it became apparent he would win, hoping to save some of their autonomy (which didn't work).

And yes, the Basque Nationalist movement has a shady past full of reactionary ideas, some of which still are around in the more moderate parties. Since the 1950's, however, there has been a very strong socialist element of the movement, represented today primarily with Batasuna and the numerous youth groups.

[bolshevik butcher]

;) All of them even the bosses basque natioanlist movment? The events i described were based on things I've read and i appologise if they were wrong. Yes it's certainly true that the basques were horribly oppressed under Franco. Natioanlism isn't something i've ever been that keen on, but it is true that much of it in the present day is left wing.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 13 2006, 05:06 AM
;) All of them even the bosses basque natioanlist movment? The events i described were based on things I've read and i appologise if they were wrong.
Some Carlists fought with the fascists, but the Basque nationalists almost entirely sided with the Republic. Why do you think the fascists bombed Guernica?

[bolshevik butcher]

For sure the class conscious basque workers as in the rest of Spain fought for the socialists.

[The Grey Blur]

The middle-class Liberals fought against Fascism as well. This would certainly apply to Basque Nationalism as well - I doubt they were all class-conscious workers

[bolshevik butcher]

The beugroirse was happy to switch sides to facism and did all that it could to stop the spannsih working class form gaining power. They inadvertabdly brough about the rise of facism.

[Ander]

I don't support any extreme right wing elements of this movement...only the leftist ones. But not the ETA. It was different when they were killing Francoist officials, but blowing up innocents (children included) is unacceptable.

[bcbm]

ETA hasn't killed anyone in years, and they're on permanent ceasefire now anyway. During their heyday in the 80's, they made a number of mistakes and did kill innocents, but I think their struggle was also important in showing the Spanish state for the farce it was (and is).

[bolshevik butcher]

I think that ETA at the time of Franco was a real threat to the establishment and had mass support. After those high days however I think they dwindled and became a bit more of just another terrorist group.

[Cheung Mo]

What level of support did the ETA enjoy among non-Basques during the Franco years?

A majority?

[Cheung Mo]

...

[bcbm]

Among non-Basques? Probably not very much.

[WUOrevolt]

Even among Basques in the 80's they didnt have alot of support I think.

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by Cheung [email protected] 18 2006, 09:38 PM
What level of support did the ETA enjoy among non-Basques during the Franco years?

A majority?
During the War ETA I'm sure were popular with the Republicans, seeing as they were on the same side and all

I don't know about post-Civil War

In fact, I don't know much about Spain at all post-civil war

[Guerrilla22]

I'm moving there for the cycling.

http://www.cyclingfans.com/tour_basque_country.jpg

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 2 2006, 02:53 PM
During the War ETA I'm sure were popular with the Republicans, seeing as they were on the same side and all
ETA didn't exist until the 1950's, well after the Civil War.



In fact, I don't know much about Spain at all post-civil war

Clearly. ;)

[The Grey Blur]

ETA didn't exist until the 1950's, well after the Civil War.
Weren't they like the Basque POUM?

Ah fuck it :lol: I really don't have a clue

[OneBrickOneVoice]

I think I'd be a quater or an eigth basque because my father was partly basque. He has all these basque shirts and talks about it alot however I don't think he actually speaks the language. One time when I was little we were visiting my grandparents for a few days and we went for stroll somewhere in Basque country. I don't remember any of it but apparently a bus was torched right near us. All I remeber was an old man came up to us and said in french "you're not from here are you? Well then you should leave. It's hard to understand."

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 4 2006, 10:10 AM
Weren't they like the Basque POUM?
No, perhaps you're thinking of the Euzko Gudari?

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by black banner black gun+Jun 4 2006, 06:37 PM--> (black banner black gun @ Jun 4 2006, 06:37 PM)
Permanent [email protected] 4 2006, 10:10 AM
Weren't they like the Basque POUM?
No, perhaps you're thinking of the Euzko Gudari? [/b]
Yes...yes of course that's what I meant... ;)

What's the general consensus on ETA? I don't really have much affinity for them but if the majority of Basques desire autonomy then they should be given it