Old USSR Flag. what does it mean?

[R_P_A_S]

I've always liked that flag ever since rocky IV haha! anyways on a serious note. I was at the immigration protest in downtown L.A. on May 1st and this 2 mexican guys had a big old USSR flag. What did that flag mean then? and what does it mean now?

[Lord Testicles]

If you mean the red flag heres a link (http://www.newyouth.com/archives/theory/faq/red_flag.asp) about and with a brief history of the red flag.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 06:08 PM
If you mean the red flag heres a link (http://www.newyouth.com/archives/theory/faq/red_flag.asp) about and with a brief history of the red flag.
I had an idea what the red flag ment. do the yellow "tools" symbolize anything?
why would people still wave it today? to signify what?

not just the red flag. the USSR flag

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 07:46 PM
do the yellow "tools" symbolize anything?
why would people still wave it today? to signify what?

not just the red flag. the USSR flag
The yellow tools signify the workers, i guess people still wave it around today because thats just what communists use to identify themselfs.

[KC]

The hammer and sickle signify unity between agricultural and industrial workers.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by Khayembii [email protected] 11 2006, 07:01 PM
The hammer and sickle signify unity between agricultural and industrial workers.
it dont seem like a bad flag at all... ( i used a sickle in mexico when we were weeding the corn crops or cutting alfalfa, i just didnt know how to say it in english lol now i know thanks!)

anyways It dont seem like a bad flag at all. it has a strong significance for the people and the country. why was it replaced?

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 08:04 PM
why was it replaced?
If you mean why did russia replace it, it might have something to do with the fall of the USSR.

[Janus]

The others have already stated what the hammer and sickle meant. The red star represents the five fingers of the worker. In general, it represents the new order that the Communist Party had established.

[Zeruzo]

fucked, what i wanted to say is alreayd mentioned :P
though the little red star also symbolizes the workers of all continents.
And it's filled red, which symbolizes the blood of all fallen workers.

[RedAnarchist]

Quite a simple but effective flag. It flew over one sixth of the world for about 70 years.

[R_P_A_S]

so why would anyone see this flag as "bad?"

[Brekisonphilous]

Because it represents "EVIL COMMUNISM"!

[sanpal]

A few days ago I heard that it was offered (by haters of communism?) to put away the hammer and sickle from the flag of victory which was raised on Reichstag in Germany in May 1945 when fascism was beaten. Fortunately Moscow parliament has not let to do it.

[BattleOfTheCowshed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 09:12 PM
so why would anyone see this flag as "bad?"
I may be wrong, but I think our friend RPAS might have seen the USSR flag at a protest, and is wondering what its cultural significance might be. After all, it might seem special to some unacquainted with communism that a Latin American man in 2006 United States might wave the flag of a far away, long gone country.

If I am right, I would like to point you in the right direction towards what you're looking for.
RPAS, I would suggest you read this: http://www.redstar2000papers.com/theory.ph...rt_from=&ucat=& (http://www.redstar2000papers.com/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1082898978&archive=&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=&)
And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
Basically, this German guy named Karl Marx said that if you studied history you would see that all of human history has been a series of battles between different economic class. That is, between groups of people with different economic interests. Marx stated that certain countries in the world were developing a new mode to produce the things made in society, it was capitalism. This stage of human history would law the foundation for the workers of the world (the proletariat) to take over society and end class/hierarchical society.
Around 1917, Marxist revolutionaries overthrew capitalism and attempted to found a new society, they called it the Soviet Union. They took the red flag (red representing workers killed by the ruling class) with a gold hammer (representing industrial workers) and sickle (representing the peasants) who were the revolutionary force in that society. Unfortunatly that attempt to create Communism failed and was proven to not create Communism. However the symbolism that it often represents: that of being a banner of the international proletariat has caused various groups of class-conscious workers around the world to identify with it. People in American society are often offended by the flag because they feel it represents a failed vision of society that ended in despotism and massive amounts of violence against society. Despite this negative connotations, there are individuals for whom they feel the flag still represents their sentiment. The two men were probably Communists.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by BattleOfTheCowshed+May 12 2006, 12:39 AM--> (BattleOfTheCowshed @ May 12 2006, 12:39 AM)
[email protected] 11 2006, 09:12 PM
so why would anyone see this flag as "bad?"
I may be wrong, but I think our friend RPAS might have seen the USSR flag at a protest, and is wondering what its cultural significance might be. After all, it might seem special to some unacquainted with communism that a Latin American man in 2006 United States might wave the flag of a far away, long gone country.

If I am right, I would like to point you in the right direction towards what you're looking for.
RPAS, I would suggest you read this: http://www.redstar2000papers.com/theory.ph...rt_from=&ucat=& (http://www.redstar2000papers.com/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1082898978&archive=&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=&)
And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
Basically, this German guy named Karl Marx said that if you studied history you would see that all of human history has been a series of battles between different economic class. That is, between groups of people with different economic interests. Marx stated that certain countries in the world were developing a new mode to produce the things made in society, it was capitalism. This stage of human history would law the foundation for the workers of the world (the proletariat) to take over society and end class/hierarchical society.
Around 1917, Marxist revolutionaries overthrew capitalism and attempted to found a new society, they called it the Soviet Union. They took the red flag (red representing workers killed by the ruling class) with a gold hammer (representing industrial workers) and sickle (representing the peasants) who were the revolutionary force in that society. Unfortunatly that attempt to create Communism failed and was proven to not create Communism. However the symbolism that it often represents: that of being a banner of the international proletariat has caused various groups of class-conscious workers around the world to identify with it. People in American society are often offended by the flag because they feel it represents a failed vision of society that ended in despotism and massive amounts of violence against society. Despite this negative connotations, there are individuals for whom they feel the flag still represents their sentiment. The two men were probably Communists. [/b]
ok. well thats really interested. and thank you for understanding my question. sometimes I asked in the wrong form and it maybe misinterpreted!

thank you for the link stoo! :D

[MrDoom]

Some more 'modern' Communist symbols (like the CPUSA's logo) add a semi-gear to the hammer and sickle, obviously representing the technician in addition to the agricultural and industrial workers.

[RebelDog]

I have always believed that the five point star represented the five continents of the earth and thus the internationalist nature of communism/socialism.

[Janus]

Some more 'modern' Communist symbols (like the CPUSA's logo)
They've combined it to look like one item. The Communist League has worker tongs in addition to the original hammer and sickle.

[drain.you]

As for the star


he five-pointed red star (a pentagram without the inner pentagon) is a symbol of Communism and Socialism and represents the five fingers of the worker's hand, as well as the five continents (as traditionally counted). A lesser known suggestion is that the five points on the star were intended to represent the five social groups that would lead the nation to communism. In no particular order, they are: the youth (the future generations), the military (to protect and defend socialism), industrial workers (labourers), agricultural workers (peasantry), and the intelligentsia (to criticize and to improve the ideas and practices of life in order to attain communism). In general, it was the emblem, symbol, and signal that indicated the truth of the new order under the rule and guidance of the Communist Party.

I like the theory of the five social groups but I would see it more as five aspects of a communists life in a communist society, to defend communism, to work in the fields, to work in the factories, to debate and to work for the future of our children.

[TC]

It might be pointed out that the Hammer and Sickle flag is a Marxist-Leninist flag that originated in the Communist party of the Soviet Union, a varation is used by the Chinese and Vietnamese Communist parties (they differ in that they don't have a star and the design is different than on the USSR flag), as well as many other marxist-leninist communist parties...

...the plain red flag without the hammer and sickle and red star pre-dates the Soviet Union though, it was at the Paris Commune and the 2nd international, so any socialist, including non-revolutionary democratic socialists, might use plain red flags without the insignia.

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 07:47 PM
...the plain red flag without the hammer and sickle and red star pre-dates the Soviet Union though, it was at the Paris Commune and the 2nd international, so any socialist, including non-revolutionary democratic socialists, might use plain red flags without the insignia.
You can find many modern day social democratic parties using it, i.e Labour or SDP.

But, like TC said, hammer and sickle is fully Marxist (Leninist) so the anarchsits don't use it a lot.

[R_P_A_S]

SO IF IM NOT a communist. I can't wear a t-shirt with that flag? or just own and put up that flag in my room? Im not going to rock it just because I think is cool. I want to understand it and know the truth behind it.

Im getting a lot answers and good info. but basically im wondering if you can only use it if you a communist?

[drain.you]

use it if you support the workers. if you're a cappie exploiting them or a slave -owner then it will probably just make you look like an uneducated jerk.

[Aurora]

I have always believed that the five point star represented the five continents of the earth and thus the internationalist nature of communism/socialism.
Five continents? :blink: last time I checked there was 7!

I always thought the Hammer&Sickle was the peasants and labourers united into the proletariat.The red being the blood of the workers spilled in the revolution and the red star being the five different classes of society

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 10:54 PM
use it if you support the workers. if you're a cappie exploiting them or a slave -owner then it will probably just make you look like an uneducated jerk.
i sure as hell dont own any slaves lol. never! so what would make me a capitalist?

[Aurora]

If you owned the means of production or employed wage-labour that would make you a capitalist

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 10:14 PM
If you owned the means of production or employed wage-labour that would make you a capitalist
nah. I work for my living. work hard! but make little money. Im not a cappie.

random question. let say i own a business. like a restaurant and have employees and I pay them all really good money and not only that I offer them good benefits, etc. etc. in general just treat them and my self like a big family working towards the same goal. same thing or what?

[drain.you]

you gotta be giving them a fair share of the profits.
say you have a restaurant with 3 workers and you work yourself and you make i dunno, £200 a night. If you give the workers and yourself each £50 of the earnings (shared equally) then you're not being a cappie.
but say you pay them with a set hourly rate regardless of how much money you make, say giving them £5 an hour, then you are ripping them off, exploiting them, thats how cappies get rich and stay on top of the social system, by not paying their workers fairly.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 10:40 PM
you gotta be giving them a fair share of the profits.
say you have a restaurant with 3 workers and you work yourself and you make i dunno, £200 a night. If you give the workers and yourself each £50 of the earnings (shared equally) then you're not being a cappie.
but say you pay them with a set hourly rate regardless of how much money you make, say giving them £5 an hour, then you are ripping them off, exploiting them, thats how cappies get rich and stay on top of the social system, by not paying their workers fairly.
My managers at the recording studio I work at. are big time cappies then...

this is how it works. and it pisses me off that no one has the balls to do anything about it.

We are recording engineers. rates for our work are...

US$40 to US$75 an hour. or US$250 to US$400 a day(12 hours)

right? so this is what happens at the studios I work at.

They book a session for 3 days. and they will charge the client
US$1200 a day. (12 hours) so in total they will make US$3600
For the 3 days they booked their Studio.

and they will pay me the engineer US$12 an hour at the end
I made US$432 in 3 days for 36 hours and they made $3600
all they had to do is book the studio. and I had to be there 36 hours working
No overtime and no benefits.

They been doing this for years and no one complains.

[Enragé]

thats capitalism for ya

try to look around you if any of your fellow workers are discontented as well, if they are...well who knows. Organise something, join a (decent) union perhaps. Go on strike if possible.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 02:05 PM
thats capitalism for ya

try to look around you if any of your fellow workers are discontented as well, if they are...well who knows. Organise something, join a (decent) union perhaps. Go on strike if possible.
Yes I thought about starting a union. but when it comes to recording engineers bro. is crazy. do you know how many fools are waiting in line to work in a studio? they'll do it for free even. just to get experience and their foot in the door...

maybe start a Union for Recording Engineers?

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 10:01 PM

I have always believed that the five point star represented the five continents of the earth and thus the internationalist nature of communism/socialism.
Five continents? :blink: last time I checked there was 7!

I always thought the Hammer&Sickle was the peasants and labourers united into the proletariat.The red being the blood of the workers spilled in the revolution and the red star being the five different classes of society
Counting Asia and Europe as one...and not counting the one no one (really for a long haul) lives on Antartica, we have five. :)

I think that the flag and it's symbols mean a lotta things to a lotta people....so maybe you should formulate your own views on what it means, because, it doesn't seem like anyone is all that sure. I am pretty sure that we are making educated guesses. :blush:

So what feelings rise up in your mind when you see the USSR flag? Answer that, because then you have yours and yours alone answer.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by R_P_A_S+May 15 2006, 07:09 PM--> (R_P_A_S @ May 15 2006, 07:09 PM)
[email protected] 15 2006, 02:05 PM
thats capitalism for ya

try to look around you if any of your fellow workers are discontented as well, if they are...well who knows. Organise something, join a (decent) union perhaps. Go on strike if possible.
Yes I thought about starting a union. but when it comes to recording engineers bro. is crazy. do you know how many fools are waiting in line to work in a studio? they'll do it for free even. just to get experience and their foot in the door...

[/b]
yea thats always a problem, too many goddamn people wanting the same job. The army of the unemployed, its a part of the whole capitalist system.


maybe start a Union for Recording Engineers?

heh why not ;)

http://www.iww.org/

maybe that'll help you :)

[Aurora]

Counting Asia and Europe as one...and not counting the one no one (really for a long haul) lives on Antartica, we have five. :)
How dialectical! :lol:

[LoneRed]

5 classes?? what the hell?

[RebelDog]

It seems the truth is there is no true definition. We all appear to be a bit correct.

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method...text=Red%20Star (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Red+star&curtab=2222_1&linktext=Red%20Star)

[TC]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 06:26 AM
5 classes?? what the hell?
sometimes its also said to represent the five classes in socialist society: industrial workers (proletariat), agricultural workers (farmers), intelligentsia (academics, lawyers, teachers, political workers), soldiers, and students...

It should be noted though that, any symbolism for the red five pointed star, whether its the five inhabited continents for internationalism, five social classes or five fingers on a workers hand (which, come on, is silly), is a retrospective symbolization; it was origionally just used to distinguish Red Army soldiers during the Bolshevik revolution from their White counterparts who were often in the same style of uniform.