an other Communism-Socialism Thread(sorry)

[R_P_A_S]

I'm new here! My name is Abel. By the way I been reading the different threads about "whats the differences between socialism and communism. I'm a bit confused so please help me out.

From what I read about Socialism I like their ideas and what they area about. But by reading some of the threads here it seems that the ultimate goal of socialism is to become communist?

So you start out as a socialist and work your way to communism? thats what all socialist aspire for?

please help!

[RedAnarchist]

A Communist is a Socialist, although not all Socialists are Communists. The difference is that Socialists tend to be moe tolerant of the capitalist system, and are willing to work within it and change it via reform. A Communist recognises that the capitalist system is a cancer and that we cannot live with it in any way, shape or form. Therefore, it must be destroyed by a revolution involving the working classes. Some Communists advocate a vanguard to lead the working classes, but many, including myself, belive that we can do without a vanguard (as the vanguard will just become an elite ruling class itself) and also without a dictatorship of the proletariat.



Hope that explains it a bit :)

[Dyst]

Welcome!

Most communists believe that socialism is the "first period" of communism. They think history will develope like this:

Capitalism - (revolution) - socialism - communism.

Revolution would take place in order to take away the power from the capitalists. Here things get a bit unclear as to what people want. Some think a party will need to seize power and control the state, for a period of time. Others want to destroy the state during the revolution, so we will stand left with no rulers at all. This is ultimately the goal of communists and anarchists.

As for the difference between communists and socialists, it is actually very interesting. There are two "types" of self-declared socialists.

1. "Real" socialists. These guys wants socialism because it will lead to communism. These are revolutionaries. They might as well call themselves communists. They want a classless (and stateless) society.

2. "Fake" socialists. They want to increase the power of the state in order to "control" the market and economy, for the benefit of humanity. Even though they may claim to be, they are not actually against capitalism as a whole.

The majority of communists, revolutionaries and anarchists fall into category 1.

Note that the 1's will want the dissolvement of the state, as opposed to the 2's. They are almost opposites of another.

Media tends to focus on the 2's if they talk about socialism. Not many people actually find number 2 appealing.

Hope that wasn't totally confusing. ;)

[R_P_A_S]

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to explain things with me. those were some good and valid points you guys made.

HOWEVER.. as I'm "down for" a socialist democracy(from what I've learn and read,which is not much YET!) I am not down for Communism. It seems that the communist goverments take away from the people. Yes they all work for the people and for the common wealth of the nationa as a whole and I guess education and healthcare is free. But the whole deal with no freedom of speech and how the press is controled by the goverment. and no one is allow to vote and people cant own their business or their OWN private land is pretty messed up to me.

Or am i just confused? is that what communism is? or is that just the rules by some crazy power-happy dictator?

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 06:21 PM
It seems that the communist goverments take away from the people.
There is no government under communism.

I think you are a bit confused try reading this What is communism? (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=46927) it might help.

Here is also a free copy of the communist manifesto (http://oldsite.marxist.com/150years/manifesto1.html)

[R_P_A_S]

that's why im here for! thanks so much I want to read more and soak it all up. all the information.

It's crazy how this kind of stuff really drives me. I discover a new love besides music. what would we call this? not politics right?

[Lord Testicles]

what would we call this? not politics right?

We would call it politics.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 08:37 PM
in practice those who call themselves (revolutionary) socialists are trotskists, those whole call themselves communists are stalinist-ish, and the rest calls themselves what they are :)
I call myself a communist and im an anarchist.

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by Additives Free+May 11 2006, 09:39 PM--> (Additives Free @ May 11 2006, 09:39 PM)
[email protected] 11 2006, 08:37 PM
in practice those who call themselves (revolutionary) socialists are trotskists, those whole call themselves communists are stalinist-ish, and the rest calls themselves what they are :)
I call myself a communist and im an anarchist. [/b]
Same here.

[LoneRed]

damn now everybodys confusing the hell outta this guy, dont listen to NKOS

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 06:21 PM
HOWEVER.. as I'm "down for" a socialist democracy(from what I've learn and read,which is not much YET!) I am not down for Communism. It seems that the communist goverments take away from the people. Yes they all work for the people and for the common wealth of the nationa as a whole and I guess education and healthcare is free. But the whole deal with no freedom of speech and how the press is controled by the goverment. and no one is allow to vote and people cant own their business or their OWN private land is pretty messed up to me.
This is a common myth born from the Soviet Union and China. What we saw in the latter days of the Soviet Union and now in China is what could loosly be described as 'Socialism' but I think most people would disagree that to be the case.

Communism is actually a society where no state or class exists and which people work based on the maxim: "From each according to ability, to each according to need."

What we saw in Russia and China is and has never been communism. Regardless of what your history teachers would have you believe.