Leninism, Marxism, Trotskyism, etc

[Ander]

I myself am a Democratic Socialist, and while I know the pretty basic stuff about Communism, I am no expert. I frequently hear "I'm a Marxist-Leninist" or "I'm more a Trotsykist than anything" and the like. I figure that looking it up on the internet won't satisfy my questions as much as asking people who practice it themselves.

So, tell me the differences between Marxism, Leninism, Trotskyism, Maoism, and all that. Stalinism even, if there is a great difference.

Thanks.

[Shredder]

Each group will define eachother differently. The revleft community is generally an anarchist or libertarian communist community, so most posters here will define things something like this:

Marxism: the doctrine that all of a sudden people will overthrow capitalism without any sort of organization. Marxist economics, dialectical materialism, and interaction with the political world on behalf of the proletariat, which are 3 of 4 of the components of marxism, are rejected here. All that is accepted is a castrated version of historical materialism.

Leninist or Marxist-Leninist: Any leftist ideology that seeks to overthrow capitalism and lead a revolution by means of organization and the suppression of capitalist resurgency, rather than spontaneous, unanimous revolution by the people in perfect harmony.

Trotskyism: petty-bourgeois social democracy. Or, the contradictory alternative definition, just another form of Leninism that is ultimately the same as Stalinism no matter how much trotskyists pretend to hate stalin.

Stalinism: The natural continuation of Leninism.

Maoism: Just more Leninism, this time abusing peasants because there aren't any workers.

I don't agree with any of these, for what it's worth. But those are the definitions you will see used here. Anything with 'ism' is usually considered a form of Leninism.

[Pascziek]

What the hell are you talking about? Everything isn't just about Revolution! Anyone who thinks that after the Revolution, there will be perfect harmony is a total dumbass, and should go kill themselves. I know there will be a struggle, and I can deal with that. The fact that I am up for the the struggle makes me a revolutionary, the fact that I want a classless, socialist society makes me a Communist, not my organization of a REVOLUTION! Damn you are so STUPID!

[barista.marxista]

Leninists: the Revolution will be made by enter leader/chairman/deity here, so we must all go be his footsoldiers!

Everyone else: the Revolution must be made by all the people, or it isn't revolutionary!

[The Grey Blur]

:lol: Good to see you all being so objective about this

[Jimmie Higgins]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 08:24 PM
Leninists: the Revolution will be made by enter leader/chairman/deity here, so we must all go be his footsoldiers!

Everyone else: the Revolution must be made by all the people, or it isn't revolutionary!
According to the book of barista.marxista: one day, a straw-man will be born to a virgin social movent and he, as is his wont, will signal the people to revolt, as is their wont, and we will all overhtrow capitalism!

[Red Axis]

You guys forgot Titoism. Founded by Marshall Tito of Yugoslavia, it suggests that internationalism is when nations have revolutions pertaining to their own means and then work together for peace. There is also an element of market socialism where workers control the means of production but the market guides the production itself. You also forgot to mention DeLeonism which is a form of syndicalism that says industrial unions are the vehicle of revolution.

[LSD]

:lol:

You think this might be a "sore" subject? :D

Anyway, if you're still interested in a somewhat objective analysis:

Leninism is nothing more than a political philsophy based on the writings and actions of Lenin and his Bolshevik Party, especially following the Russian Revolution. Although based on Marxism, it introduced some novel concepts into the framework, especially with regards to the role of the party, and was the dominant strain of communism during most of the twentieth century.

Simply put, Leninists advocate a disciplined hiearchical party structure organized along principles of "democratic centralism" (think parliamentary cabinet) that will both "lead" and "organize" the proletariat before and during the revolution.

Ostensibly, the Proletariat itself is "not yet capable" of direct self-rule and so requires that the "most revolutionary" of the class "prepare" them for "eventual" self-government.

Therefore, following a successful proletarian insurrection, Leninists see the party as immediately assuming sole power as the "vanguard" and "representatives" of the entire Proletarian class. As a sort of "general staff" of the revolutionary Proletariat, the party will be trained and prepared to assume absolute command.

This command will be organized based on a statist "socialist" approach which generally tends towards a powerful top-heavy institutionalized centralized government with all the standard accessories such as bureaucrats, police forces, and standing professional armies.

Theoretically, the ruling parties of Leninist states are supposed to be democratic and loosely based on republican princples, but practically, Leninist governments have been universally authoritarian and highly corrupt.

Trotskyism is an expansion of Leninism that, basically, views the Soviet Union between 1917 and 1928 as a functional "Worker's State" that was later made "degenerate" by the Stalinist bureaucratic clique. Trotskyists also generally oppose "socialism in one state" and are ardent internationalists.

Stalinism isn't so much an ideology as it is a minor variant of Leninism. Unlike Trotsky, Stalin added very little to the Leninist paradigm and accordingly most "Stalinists" refer to themselves as "Marxist-Leninists".

Like Trotskyists, however, Stalinists defining feature is their historical analysis of the Soviet Union; namely they consider it a successful "Worker's State" all the way up until 1956.

Maoism is basically Agrarian Socialism painted red. It's, ostensibly, yet another variant of Leninism, but it rejects fundamental Leninist conceptions of class dynamics. Unfortunately, it maintains Leninist "iron discipline" and tends to promote absolute party "leadership" and the elevation of the individual "leader" to near God-like prominance.

In many ways Maoism can be compared to Stalinism in that neither one is a truly coherent ideological paradigm so much as they are historical hero-worship.

For more information see the Revolutionary Left Dictionary (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=25786)

[OneBrickOneVoice]

I think Trotskyists are leninists who believe that Stalin created a degenerate workers state. They believe in democracy with structure.

[barista.marxista]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 09:09 PM
I think Trotskyists are leninists who believe that Stalin created a degenerate workers state. They believe in democracy with structure.
...the structure being an authoritarian Bolshevik party, with the "iron discipline bordering on military discipline" enforcing "unanimous confidence" (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x01.htm)? Kewl! Too bad it's going to wither away one day!

Who wants to buy a copy of (The Militant/International Socialist Review/Solidarity/Workers World/Socialist Action) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Trotskyist_internationals)??

[The Grey Blur]

...the structure being an authoritarian Bolshevik party, with the "iron discipline bordering on military discipline" enforcing "unanimous confidence" (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x01.htm)? Kewl! Too bad it's going to wither away one day!
V. I. Lenin
Terms of Admission into Communist International

Written: July, 1920


Who wants to buy a copy of (The Militant/International Socialist Review/Solidarity/Workers World/Socialist Action) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Trotskyist_internationals)??
I get all of them and then debate with myself for hours as to which has the correct line in regards the Fourth International and the establishment of a working Socialist state

It keeps my tiny Trotskyist brain occupied for hours

[Aurora]

I wouldnt listen to any of them! except LSD and Red Axis!
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=25786 that should explain things quite clearly and there are links there to help you go into more detail if you like.

[bezdomni]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 10 2006, 06:54 PM

I get all of them and then debate with myself for hours as to which has the correct line in regards the Fourth International and the establishment of a working Socialist state

It keeps my tiny Trotskyist brain occupied for hours
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The sad thing is some people probably do that....

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by clownpenisanarchy+May 18 2006, 12:19 AM--> (clownpenisanarchy @ May 18 2006, 12:19 AM)
Permanent [email protected] 10 2006, 06:54 PM

I get all of them and then debate with myself for hours as to which has the correct line in regards the Fourth International and the establishment of a working Socialist state

It keeps my tiny Trotskyist brain occupied for hours
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The sad thing is some people probably do that.... [/b]

Have you been talking to my mother about me again? <_<

The thread starter may be interested in the following threads:

Trotskyism and what it represents. (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=47241&st=0&hl=bukharin)
Debate on Trotskyism. (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=46981&st=0&hl=bukharin)
What is &#39;Leninism&#39;?, Test Yourself&#33; (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=49762&st=0)

They&#39;re some of the better threads on this subject I can remember.