Racism out of Control

[Oh-Dae-Su]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060504/wl_nm/russia_racism_dc

according to Amnesty International, Racism in Russia is really out of control

:( thats real sad



Russia's northern city of St Petersburg is especially notorious for attacks. Last month a Senegalese student, coming out of a night club with a group of friends, was killed with a shotgun emblazoned with a Nazi swastika

:angry: fucking sick!

[LSD]

Well, that's what happens when society's collapse.

The West may point to the the fall of the USSR as some sort of "great victory", but the reality was that it was just one more corrupt government failing to look after it's people.

For the average worker in St. Petersburg/Petrograd/Leningrad/St. Petersburg, the new bosses were very much the same as the old ones and the gangsters who now rule the streets are hardly a "welcome" replacement to the Red Army.

Russia is now a third world country; "third world" of course being bourgeois code for shit hole. :angry:

[Tupac-Amaru]

Yes im not surprised, ive heard that quite a lot: Russians are widely know for being extremely racist. Even during the Socialist era.

Which is funny cose the Soviets used to condemn the Americans for being racists...but i guess they forgot to look at themselves.

[hassan monwar al-moudjahid]

that is true. however i think they did more to help the 3rd world than the capitalist countries, even if it was for the wrong reasons

[Capitalist Lawyer]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 10:12 AM
Well, that's what happens when society's collapse.


I thought communism was suppose to happen when a society collapses? :blink:

It appears that won't be the case as Nazism, racism, and barbarism will probably rise out of the ashes of a decaying capitalist society.

[LSD]

I thought communism was suppose to happen when a society collapses?

No communism is about mass revolution. It has nothing to do with the sophomoric post-apocalytpic fantasies of primativists and nihilists.

Communism requires a strong functional technological base, something which is generally not present in "collapsed" societies.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

you know, iv actually comed to believe that , secluded/tribal/farmer type of people might actually be less racist than those from cities and that have contact with other races or whatever. For examplle, i was watching this TV show called , "Going Tribal", and the guy is a white british dude, and he goes to live with tribes in Africa and Asia etc.. that have little or no contact at all with the outside world, yet they all embrace him and let him live with them, and every episode iv seen, even though the guy is soo different from everyone else he is embraced and thought ass a brother, they even cry when he leaves...i dont know this is just something i thought off right now

[Capitalist Lawyer]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 09:40 PM

I thought communism was suppose to happen when a society collapses?

No communism is about mass revolution. It has nothing to do with the sophomoric post-apocalytpic fantasies of primativists and nihilists.

Communism requires a strong functional technological base, something which is generally not present in "collapsed" societies.
Sorry chap, but markets and the welfare-state are here to stay. Markets are the best indicator as to where to allocate resources and what needs to be produced.

We had this discussion before but you never even bothered to respond to my rebuttals.


http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...opic=49325&st=0 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=49325&st=0)

[greymatter]

Originally posted by Tupac-[email protected] 5 2006, 06:03 PM
Which is funny cose the Soviets used to condemn the Americans for being racists...but i guess they forgot to look at themselves.
As racist as the average Russian may have been, Soviet Russia did invest much more in public infrastructure in the countries they invaded than the Americans did. The American adventures in Iran, Nicaragua, and Guatemala resulted in a shitstorm that we're still feeling today, while at the same time, the russians were building schools and hospitals in Afghanistan

[LSD]

Sorry chap, but markets and the welfare-state are here to stay.


The same was once said for feudalism and morchy, but today both are distant relics of the past. As late as 50 years ago, segrgation was "here to stay" and even the idea a gay rights movement would have been absured.

Imagine what we'll accomplish in the next hundred years!

"There is no alternative" is conservative fantasy. Things always change.

[AspirinE]

Originally posted by Tupac-[email protected] 5 2006, 06:03 PM
Yes im not surprised, ive heard that quite a lot: Russians are widely know for being extremely racist. Even during the Socialist era.

Which is funny cose the Soviets used to condemn the Americans for being racists...but i guess they forgot to look at themselves.
I myself am russian and have been involved in clashes with these racists. We're not all racists and never were racist. Dont introduce stereotypes into discussions.

The fact is, the new goverment wich is corrupted to the fullest(thanks to our western friends) could care less about this and if we had as many cops patrolling the streets as we had before thes idiots would be thinking twice.

Its not because of racist nature that this is happening, its because of a shitty life and heavy spread propoganda. We turned into what america was in the early 1930s.

Yes racism is at its rize but what are these kids that have nothing to do but hate are going to do about the goverment, nothing. With time as our immigrant numbers wich are now low will rize their will be more opositions for neo nazis.(i sencerely hope that that day would come sooner)

[red team]

Markets are the best indicator as to where to allocate resources and what needs to be produced.


Perhaps for the present epoch that we find ourselves in, but the general question then becomes why markets are necessary for allocating resources?

[Matt_from_California]

Why do communists ALWAYS insist on multi racial societes? If the Russians want to keep Russia white and Russian, that's their business, don't try and import more third worlders into Russia when they already have enough to deal with as it is.

[Wiesty]

Thank you Mr. Anti-Inflation

[Tupac-Amaru]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 04:13 AM
Why do communists ALWAYS insist on multi racial societes?
Because communists beleive the workers of the world should unite. They don't beleive Nationality or Race has anything to do with anything: you should pledge allegiance to your class; not the flag or the race.

A black worker is the same thing as a white worker. That's the answer to your question!

[Wiesty]

well you cant really pledge allegiance to your class, cause in communism, there are no classes

[Matt_from_California]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 09:58 PM
well you cant really pledge allegiance to your class, cause in communism, there are no classes
But we're not living under communism are we? So class does exist, and communists do want to see the underclasses united against the common foe of Capitalism. The problem, at least here in the US is that there isn't a large underclass, as long as the people have their hedonistic lifestyle they won't work towards any sort of change.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by Oh-Dae-[email protected] 5 2006, 10:08 PM
you know, iv actually comed to believe that , secluded/tribal/farmer type of people might actually be less racist than those from cities and that have contact with other races or whatever. For examplle, i was watching this TV show called , "Going Tribal", and the guy is a white british dude, and he goes to live with tribes in Africa and Asia etc.. that have little or no contact at all with the outside world, yet they all embrace him and let him live with them, and every episode iv seen, even though the guy is soo different from everyone else he is embraced and thought ass a brother, they even cry when he leaves...i dont know this is just something i thought off right now
its not because they've never seen other "races" before, its because they have never come in contact with even the mere concept of racism

if you take a look at countries who have, the less other "races" in the vicinity the more racists, more nationalists, more conservatives.

[Fistful of Steel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 04:13 AM
Why do communists ALWAYS insist on multi racial societes? If the Russians want to keep Russia white and Russian, that's their business, don't try and import more third worlders into Russia when they already have enough to deal with as it is.
Because race is a non-issue in modern society, it dictates nothing. Eugenics is a debunked science that has no credence anymore. Then you have to ask, what would the basis for keeping a society "white"? A country that is white is no more or less better than a country that is non-white. The ideology of keeping people confined to imaginary lines is idiotic, people are people no matter where they live.

[CLOCKWORK ORANGE]

Originally posted by Fistful of Steel+May 9 2006, 10:33 PM--> (Fistful of Steel @ May 9 2006, 10:33 PM)
[email protected] 9 2006, 04:13 AM
Why do communists ALWAYS insist on multi racial societes? If the Russians want to keep Russia white and Russian, that's their business, don't try and import more third worlders into Russia when they already have enough to deal with as it is.
Because race is a non-issue in modern society, it dictates nothing. Eugenics is a debunked science that has no credence anymore. Then you have to ask, what would the basis for keeping a society "white"? A country that is white is no more or less better than a country that is non-white. The ideology of keeping people confined to imaginary lines is idiotic, people are people no matter where they live. [/b]
Yes you are right. But we both aren't Russians.

Polls consistently say a large amount of Russians want 'Russia for Russians.'

[Matt_from_California]

Originally posted by Fistful of Steel+May 9 2006, 10:33 PM--> (Fistful of Steel @ May 9 2006, 10:33 PM)
[email protected] 9 2006, 04:13 AM
Why do communists ALWAYS insist on multi racial societes? If the Russians want to keep Russia white and Russian, that's their business, don't try and import more third worlders into Russia when they already have enough to deal with as it is.
Because race is a non-issue in modern society, it dictates nothing. Eugenics is a debunked science that has no credence anymore. Then you have to ask, what would the basis for keeping a society "white"? A country that is white is no more or less better than a country that is non-white. The ideology of keeping people confined to imaginary lines is idiotic, people are people no matter where they live. [/b]
Well why do we have to force multiculturalism on only white countries? Why don't you go force it on China, or Japan, see how far you get there. Race exists, nationalities exist, and some people just want to have their own nation, and as clockwork pointed out, polls indicate that Russians want Russia for Russians. It's not my business if Russians are being racist and want to keep others out of their nation.

[Forward Union]

I have seen videos of this nazi uprising, you really have no idea.

Things are slipping into trouble here in the Uk as well. The BNP party has been doing well in elections recently, Nazi vandalism is getting beyond ridiculous, and Nazi turnouts to demos are getting to the point where the nazis outnumber the opposition.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 04:13 AM
Why do communists ALWAYS insist on multi racial societes?
Because people willl travel about, move about, and multiculturalism becomes inevitable. Even if you take the nazi approach, and do your best to erradicate humans that don't fit into your favourate "race" you'll loose eventually.


If the Russians want to keep Russia white and Russian, that's their business,

Well, doesn't that involve killing? Oppression? all kinds of other measures reminiscent of the holocaust? That fucking is my business I'll do my part to stop it happening again.


don't try and import more third worlders into Russia when they already have enough to deal with as it is.

The problem is with the system not the amount of people suffering in it.

[CLOCKWORK ORANGE]

Originally posted by Additives [email protected] 10 2006, 02:30 PM
I have seen videos of this nazi uprising, you really have no idea.

Things are slipping into trouble here in the Uk as well. The BNP party has been doing well in elections recently, Nazi vandalism is getting beyond ridiculous, and Nazi turnouts to demos are getting to the point where the nazis outnumber the opposition.
You really can't compare the two. The racial tension situation in Russia makes the U.K's situation look nonexistent.

Last month their were racial attacks everyday in Russia. And those were the ones reported by the media. :( Just imagine the ones that weren't. Usually the ones that end up in videos aren't reported.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by CLOCKWORK ORANGE+May 10 2006, 02:39 PM--> (CLOCKWORK ORANGE @ May 10 2006, 02:39 PM)
Additives [email protected] 10 2006, 02:30 PM
I have seen videos of this nazi uprising, you really have no idea.

Things are slipping into trouble here in the Uk as well. The BNP party has been doing well in elections recently, Nazi vandalism is getting beyond ridiculous, and Nazi turnouts to demos are getting to the point where the nazis outnumber the opposition.
You really can't compare the two. The racial tension situation in Russia makes the U.K's situation look nonexistent.

Last month their were racial attacks everyday in Russia. And those were the ones reported by the media. :( Just imagine the ones that weren't. Usually the ones that end up in videos aren't reported. [/b]
I wasn't comparing. Just stating a personal observation.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 03:42 AM
Well why do we have to force multiculturalism on only white countries?
And already you reveal great misconceptions within your logic. We're not the ones forcing anything, multiculturalism, is natural, beautiful, and beneficial. To take measures to stop it, is counter-productive to the progress of humanity, the old statement "live together or die alone" springs to mind.


Why don't you go force it on China, or Japan, see how far you get there

I combat racism in this county, as I hope comrades that Live in Japan and China do also.


Race exists

In the same way different eye colours exist, and hair. Race doesn't exist in the context your thinking.


nationalities exist,

Only on paper.


and some people just want to have their own nation

More people like pizza than swordfish, doesn't mean they're morally justified.


and as clockwork pointed out, polls indicate that Russians want Russia for Russians. It's not my business if Russians are being racist and want to keep others out of their nation.

But Russia isn't "theirs" it belongs to a small class of rich landowners, who have been given the special task of making capitalism work in a certain block of land. This ruling elite owns Russia, and fools the people into having some sort of national pride, and unfortunately it works. The people don't see these rich fat-cats, who own all the land and factories, who invented "russia" on paper, who run the country and are in charge of the economic mess for the problems. They instead blame a small minority of people, suffering just as much if not more, for the economic crisis.

That's fucking stupid racist shit.

[CLOCKWORK ORANGE]

You guys should see how ridiculous they are.

Heres a video of a skinhead talking to a 15 year old antifa. Notice how they never start something with someone their size.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PxUl3KMm3I

[Oh-Dae-Su]

LMAO....well i gotta say thats pretty fucked up....i do understand what you guys say, of course if they democratically want to keep Russia for Russians than fine, but thats like additives free said "counter productive" and it's just not the way of thinking for the 21st century...i just don't get it, Russia is nowhere near becoming integrated or anything like other European countries and like America, so? wtf? i mean i would say that you barely really see black people in Russia, so what are they scared off? i just think it's pretty ridiculous, racism will always exist, but this is just a step backwards for Russia....but i must say that Nationalistic movements are taking a foothold in European countries, like additives free said the BNP, and in France the Le Pen.....but in France for example, it has to do with the muslims protesting and the riotings that have gone on...so that of course is not a good way to get on the good side of your host country...

[Baby Olly]

Originally posted by Oh-Dae-[email protected] 5 2006, 09:47 PM
you know, iv actually comed to believe that , secluded/tribal/farmer type of people might actually be less racist than those from cities and that have contact with other races or whatever. For examplle, i was watching this TV show called , "Going Tribal", and the guy is a white british dude, and he goes to live with tribes in Africa and Asia etc.. that have little or no contact at all with the outside world, yet they all embrace him and let him live with them, and every episode iv seen, even though the guy is soo different from everyone else he is embraced and thought ass a brother, they even cry when he leaves...i dont know this is just something i thought off right now
This is part of the argument put out by the black and white separatist groups who want each race to stop intermarrying and for each to have a 'homeland'. The old saying does have truth in it- 'familiarity breeds contempt' and the more each race interacts with the other the less respect they have for each other, unfortunately. Now add the Hispanic factor in the form of illegal aliens impacting on both balcks and whites and you have the potential for a pseudo civil war.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

This is part of the argument put out by the black and white separatist groups who want each race to stop intermarrying and for each to have a 'homeland'. The old saying does have truth in it- 'familiarity breeds contempt' and the more each race interacts with the other the less respect they have for each other, unfortunately. Now add the Hispanic factor in the form of illegal aliens impacting on both balcks and whites and you have the potential for a pseudo civil war

it is? humm, well im totally anti separatist nationalist or whatever.....and i do believe in integration , but maybe it actually does bring conflict. I mean if you think about it it is inevitable, conflict/war it is inevitable, unfortunately, as well as racism, because we are different, and difference is always going to exist as long as the human race exists.....but i guess we can become more progressive towards this issue, and in fact i think we have, just look at our parents generation. If i were to date a black chick or an asian chick or something my parents would probably not welcome this, but in our generation, i think we have becomed defenitaly more and more tolerant, and im talking about here at least in America.....but Russia, i guess since it's a country which was closed off from the world under the ex USSR etc.. and it is now expiriencing multiculturality, it is probably like the USA back in the early part of the 20th century up to the 60's with racism etc....

and also you have to understand about the hispanics that not all hispanics are the same, it's kind of weird when you fill in some paper and you fill in "hispanic", because a black guy and an aztec looking guy are catagorized as the same ethnic group as me , when i am of spanish european decent! so....trust me , we hispanics are in fact racist towards eachother, racism exists for example in Mexico, towards the indians, and the fact is most hispanics are actually mestizos, but me im from Cuba, and the caribbean people are different than the Central Americans, not only genetically, but also when we come to this country. Caribbeans are of black and spanish decent, in Cuba either you are mulato, white or black, there really is no Mexican looking people, and also Cubans are not illegal in this country, because even if you come illegaly to America, if you are Cuban you get a residence card because of a law which protects Cuban immigrants, unlike the poor Central and South American people.....but the fact is that we labeled as hispanics, legal or not, make up the 2nd largest group in America, so if like you said there is a pseudo civil racial war , i think it's in the best interest of the anglo americans to not start it, because you know blacks and hispanics will unite and then asians and pretty much every minority group against the anglos hahahahahaha, nahh i find that unlikely to happen though......