To the kurds - To the kurds

[IPkurd]

I would like to post a message to us kurd in this forum. WE need to keep on rebeling aggest the occupyersof kurdsitan were every we are and were ever they are. we need to make sure that they hear us. i suggest that a few beating up or bombs in turkish areas would make dame sure that the turks would never forget us, i would like to no were the kurds in this forum are from if like me your from turkey swich part?

[deimos]

I don't think that it's good to rebell NOW. Currently, the turks are in panic because of the kurds in iraqi kurdistan. the autonomous region in iraqi kurdistan is an experiment. If everything goes on there like in the past 4 years, the turks will lose many of their arguments. So, the kurds shouldn't do anything which could give turkey a reason to invade. But, if the turks invade now, we should show them again what peshmerga means...
I live in graz Austria. My father is an iraqi kurd from a village near Arbil.

i suggest that a few beating up or bombs in turkish areas
I#ll blow up the next döner kebap fast food restaurant...:)

[IPkurd]

i didn't understand the thing you said about the experiment....but anyway kababs are kurdish as well you no, kababs are in my blood lol. And i think its a perfect time for kurds in turkey,iran,syria but not iraq to rebel and this goes for the kurds around the the world if the turkish gov't even think of oppressing the kurd they can kiss there europe dreams good bye

[deimos]

I know that kebap is kurdish as well, but I meant döner kebap(isn't it turkish?)

i didn't understand the thing you said about the experiment....
Many kemalists with which I debated told me that kurds are unable for democracy(I answered: That is not a surprise, most of us live in turkey...).
In Iraqi kurdistan, the kurds can demonstrate that they are able for a democracy.

And i think its a perfect time for kurds in turkey,iran,syria but not iraq to rebel and this goes for the kurds around the the world
You may be right. Turkey#s economy is a mess(worse than argentina), Iranand syria fear to be the next targets. In iraq, the kurds have the strongest army(except the US)

[hawarameen]

the time is not right for physical action, at the moment turkey is looking for the samllest reason to crush "terrorism" in turkey or even in iraq. we have a much stronger case now, a much better hand to play with. we have shown ourselves to be able to live in democracy (Kurdish Style), we have helped overthrow saddam (in a small way) and turkey has pretty much pissed of the world.

right now movement against turkey involves boycotting anything made in turkey, its a small step, i am only one person but i try to push this movement wherever i go. the more people boycot turkey the worse their economy will be and if that doesnt work then the internet is a great place for learning how to make things that explode :wink:

[praxis1966]

Quote: from IPkurd on 2:50 am on April 17, 2003
I would like to post a message to us kurd in this forum. WE need to keep on rebeling aggest the occupyersof kurdsitan were every we are and were ever they are. we need to make sure that they hear us. i suggest that a few beating up or bombs in turkish areas would make dame sure that the turks would never forget us, i would like to no were the kurds in this forum are from if like me your from turkey swich part?

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, IPKurd, but if I were you I wouldn't post stuff like that on ANY website. You never know when some jack-booted fascist will use your statements as a reason to make you dissappear in the middle of the night. Just some friendly advice.

[hawarameen]

yeah, especially as you actually live in turkey!

[deimos]

the kontr guerilla is everywhere...

[Republican Guard]

I'd much rather Kurds have a "sovereign" or "distinct" province (similar to Quebec here in Canada) in northern Iraq and a key role in its government and economies, than to seperate Iraq into pieces.

Kurds and Arabs are not all that different and had lived in peace for ages before the white men came along. Remember that Saladin was a kurd. I support the Kurdish people but not if they want to break Iraq apart. I don't care if Iraq was just a "Imperial slice of land created by the British", it's still a country and deserves to keep its integrity and sovereignty.

s.

[sin miedo]

The Kurds and the nation of Kurdistan have existed long before the creation of Iraq. A Kurdish State should be created, even if it means the fracturing of Iraq.

[hawarameen]

Quote: from Republican Guard on 4:26 pm on April 17, 2003
I'd much rather Kurds have a "sovereign" or "distinct" province (similar to Quebec here in Canada) in northern Iraq and a key role in its government and economies, than to seperate Iraq into pieces.

Kurds and Arabs are not all that different and had lived in peace for ages before the white men came along. Remember that Saladin was a kurd. I support the Kurdish people but not if they want to break Iraq apart. I don't care if Iraq was just a "Imperial slice of land created by the British", it's still a country and deserves to keep its integrity and sovereignty.

s.

i was wondering when you would show you face again.

why do you not want iraq seperated? your country didnt exist and like you said you have to be grateful to the british for making it. before they did it there was no sense of iraqiness they were just arabs, the kurds however were there before the ottomans so how do you work out that iraq in 90 odd years deserves to be kept in tack when the kurds who have been there for centuries do not deserve the same treatment?

your knowledge of your own country continues to bafle me, kurds and arabs not all that different?? apart from the culture, language, text and appearance they share many similarities! and yes saladin was kurdish but he didnt see himself as being part of a nation more as part of a religion, he fought for islam. arabs and kurds lived in peace??? you know nothing about your countries history yet you keep making absurd claims.

and for your information kurdistan was sliced up and bits of it were renamed iraq, iran, turkey and syria.

iraq is a complete failure, a mish mash of cultures and religions. a religion which does not tolerate differences i opinion and fights against themselves based on which version of islam is better. as long as there are these differences iraq will always be hostile, there will always be differences in opinion and when there are differences in opinion there is a risk of fighting.

to all - this is the guy who chooses a nick that makes all kurds and most arabs sick, choosing the name republican guard out of ignorance or a sick sense of admiration. this is also the guy who's family lived in Mosul and who were probably given a free home , job, car etc, which belonged to kurds who were told to move out or die. his family became rich thanks to saddam, RG are you and your family disapointed he's gone?

[Republican Guard]

i was wondering when you would show you face again.

Show my face again? When exactly did I leave?

Sigh. Ok then. While I attempt to have intelligent discussions with other enlightened people on this board - as I have with some, thank you - you insist on attacking me, my culture and even my family personally for my beliefs and my statements, which unlike you I actually back up with facts.

I tried to avoid letting it get to this, but you're obviously not mature and cohesive enough to understand how to have a normal conversation yet. I really hope - for your sake - that you will one day. They have schools for that you know!


why do you not want iraq seperated? your country didnt exist and like you said you have to be grateful to the british for making it. before they did it there was no sense of iraqiness they were just arabs, the kurds however were there before the ottomans so how do you work out that iraq in 90 odd years deserves to be kept in tack when the kurds who have been there for centuries do not deserve the same treatment?

Grateful to the British? They didn't "make" it, they "reshaped it". You can find a dictionary here: http://www.m-w.com . Most arab countries were created that way. And buddy, the ancestors of the ottomans were escaped slaves of the ancient persian empire of Xerxes, and had a sense of identity and culture hundreds of years before anyone knew what the fuck a kurd was.

Do the Kurds deserve the same treatment you say? No way in fuckin' hell. Different tribal leaders from different cultures got together via a common belief - Baathism, which is closer to socialism than anything seen before in the Middle East - and kept their country sovereign and at the forefront of Arab countries in terms of technology, modernization and human rights all the way to the early 80s (Saddam got an award from the UN for literacy in the 60s, with the highest literacy rate in the region by far). As for the Kurds, instead of trying negotiating more power in the Iraqi govt and gaining through diplomacy, they decided that it would make more sense to just start attacking Iraqi settlements in northern Iraq and take the oil-rich land for themselves. After Saddams' army crushed them, they realized that they didn't stand a chance and only got off their lazy asses when the US "promised" them help, which never came. Let's see what happens now, shall we?


your knowledge of your own country continues to bafle me, kurds and arabs not all that different?? apart from the culture, language, text and appearance they share many similarities! and yes saladin was kurdish but he didnt see himself as being part of a nation more as part of a religion, he fought for islam. arabs and kurds lived in peace??? you know nothing about your countries history yet you keep making absurd claims.

My bad. You must be right in that I have no knowledge of the
history of Iraq. I only grew up there and Majored in Middle Eastern Affairs. What do I know? You're obviously an outspoken, well-mannered, cultured Middle East expert. My bad again.


and for your information kurdistan was sliced up and bits of it were renamed iraq, iran, turkey and syria.

LOL!!! Ahem... hehe... yes... Isn't that so unfair? Kinda like when Australia was sliced 'n' diced and renamed Canada, Bora Bora, Madagascar and Wyoming. History repeats itself again! Try getting your sources from somewhere other than Playskools' "My Ferst Hisstarry Boook!"


iraq is a complete failure, a mish mash of cultures and religions. a religion which does not tolerate differences i opinion and fights against themselves based on which version of islam is better. as long as there are these differences iraq will always be hostile, there will always be differences in opinion and when there are differences in opinion there is a risk of fighting.



You want to talk about difference of opinion, infighting and such? Look closer to home. KURDS killed more KURDS than SADDAM did in th 90s. FACT. "The Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), the two groups that run northern Iraq, fought a civil war in
the 1990s that killed thousands. In a military compound, a traffic roundabout displays portraits of four PUK martyrs. None was killed by Hussein's regime. All were killed by the KDP."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0312/p07s01-wome.html

The only "failure" in Iraq is the desolate, barren, undevelopped one in the north, populated by

an angry mob of violent, drunken wife-beaters who know no other way to settle their differences than by murdering each other and everyone else.


to all - this is the guy who chooses a nick that makes all kurds and most arabs sick, choosing the name republican guard out of ignorance or a sick sense of admiration. this is also the guy who's family lived in Mosul and who were probably given a free home , job, car etc, which belonged to kurds who were told to move out or die. his family became rich thanks to saddam, RG

are you and your family disapointed he's gone?

My family became rich thanks to Saddam? My family - like every other shi'ite, sunni and christian Iraqi family I know of - prospered in the 60s and 70s under the progressive socialist reforms instituted by the Baath party in contrast to the brutal army general who executed you if you weren't "muslim" enough. Saddam built Iraq into the most powerful and prestigious Arab nation during the 60s and 70s. Indeed, Saddam was a brutal, oppressive dictator. He murdered and executed dissidents, political opponents and adversaries. So did Napoleon. So did Alexander the Great. So did George Washington. So did Saladin. And yes, so did Che Guevara himself, who shot deserters in the back.

Hamammameem, you said you "lost your respect for me" because I'm a Christian-Arab Iraqi. If my goal was ever to earn your respect, then my life is worthless and I will proceed immediately to the nearest noose in a hurry.

You don't know me. You don't know what I know or where I'm from, and you certainly don't know what I've seen with my very own eyes. And yes, on this forum I still wear the name Republican Guard with pride. If that bothers you in any way, please accept my sincerest invitation to suck my left one.

Suck it hard, and suck it good.

I told you that I didn't want it to come to this. Did you find this site by accident? You obviously don't know much about Che, surprisingly. I'm amazed to see that you have thousands of post, and very grateful that I just got here only now, so that I didn't have to put up with your racism, ignorance and attitude for very long. I guess I should've expected as much from you.

You want a free Kurdistan? There are Kurds in Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Iran, Russia and elsewhere. Unlike the societies around them, they were too busy bickering among themselves, murdering eachother and learning how to count to build their own nation when "everyone else was doing it!" "We want one too!" Sorry guys, a little too late for that, you missed your chance... better luck next time though! ;)

The US wants stability in the Middle East, and that stability doesn't allow for a division of Iraq. They fucked you before, and they're going to fuck you again. You shouldn't have assumed "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". :)

Again, if any of this offends you, remember to always SUCK MY LEFT ONE!

Thank you for tuning in,

s.


(Edited by Republican Guard at 1:29 am on April 18, 2003)

[sin miedo]

Heh, you lost when you said that northern Iraq, the Kurdish controlled area, is a failure. My friend, where have you been? They are/were under the same oil-for-food programs and sanctions that Hussein controlled Iraq has been under for over ten years. And yet they have a thriving democracy, hospitals, schools, a small but growing market. What did the Iraqis have? Not much, because your beloved (if what you are what your name implies) leader Hussein has greedily stolen money from the Iraqi people and wasted it on himself, his family, and those Baath members most loyal to him. You can be against war, but anyone who defends those Baathist murderers is one sick individual.

[Republican Guard]

Heh, you lost when you said that northern Iraq, the Kurdish controlled area, is a failure. My friend, where have you been? They are/were under the same oil-for-food programs and sanctions that Hussein controlled Iraq has been under for over ten years. And yet they have a thriving democracy, hospitals, schools, a small but growing market. What did the Iraqis have? Not much, because your beloved (if what you are what your name implies) leader Hussein has greedily stolen money from the Iraqi people and wasted it on himself, his family, and those Baath members most loyal to him. You can be against war, but anyone who defends those Baathist murderers is one sick individual.

What do the Iraqis have? Despite over a DECADE of sanctions and 2 massive scale wars, Baghdad was rebuilt and any scars from the gulf war 1 had been fixed. They had a great health care system, near-zero crime (not counting govt crime of course), and state-supplied basic needs (food, etc... sounds kinda like socialism, no?)... If you think that the Kurdish ENCLAVE in the north is a "thriving democracy", you're on some strong drugs man. My grade school elections for a class president was a more viable democracy than the shambles the Kurds have going up there.

If you think that just because my handle is Republican Guard that I am one, you've got to learn. Is "Comandante Che" really Che? Quick, go check!

I chose the name for fun, to see what people on the board would say. I don't use it on any other board.

I'm sick and tired of people who equate baathism with saddam hussein. You're like the people whose only notion of communism stems from Stalin.

Both of you are also the main reason that communism and socialism never worked. They're not compatible with racism and bigotry. :)

s.

[canikickit]

I have more knowledge of Iraq than your entire race will ever even learn. You're actually right though, they are pretty different, sorry. Kurds are much, MUCH, * M U C H * less educated and greedier than the average Iraqi.

This, coupled with your wish to respect the sovereignity of Iraq, are two of the most ignorant statments made on this board, ever.

[sin miedo]

Don't bring up racism and bigotry when it is clear you are both.

HA! You use republican gaurd "for fun." What if someone claiming to be a socialist came in with the Gestapo Officer, or S.S. Lieutenant? You know, just to see how peopled react. Bullshit. No one would pick such an evil name for shits and giggles. I theorize you are a Hussein sympatheizer, why else choose this name?

And the reason Saddam's Iraq had little crime was for the exact same reason Stalin's Russia had little crime. Because regime ruled with an iron fist, gladly imprisoning thousands of innocents and brutally torturing and murdering them, striking fear into the hearts of the Iraqi citizens.

[Soul Rebel]

If anyone is interested i will be putting on a special event on the east coast (of the u$ of course). It is a benefit concert to show support for the Kurdish. My special focus of the concert is Leyla Zana. She was arrested in 1994 in Turkey and sentenced to 15 yrs. in jail. Why was she thrown in jail? During her parlimentary inauguration she said in Kurdish that she wished to bring the Turkish and Kurdish together to live peacefully. She was also wearing the Kurdish colors during the event. At this statement and appearance Zana was called a traitor and seperatist.

My goal is to raise awareness about the Leyla Zana case and show support for the Kurdish. I am expecting to have the show on May Day. I will put up a post in the Practice form and in the Politics forum annoucing the details. If you live in the New England area i really encourage you to attend.

[Ian]

I LOVE KEBABS!

[hawarameen]

my GOD what a hypocrite, racism, bigotry? look those words up yeah!
in what manner did you atain your degree? how much did it cost you? in bribes i mean?

look at the looting thats going on in baghdad, they dont look very greedy to me, museums hospitals shops factories even homes are looted.

how many times have you been to kurdistan lately? freedom of speach is one hell of a way to show an undemocratic nation.

people who choose the name comandante che on this site choose it because they admire him, so tell us again why you chose your nick!!
the republican guard were the tool of saddams tyrany, they killed thousands, even hundreds of thousands, in choosing that name you are spitting on all those graves of people who saddam had killed, still fun??

and let me tell you something that your history teacher (in his infinate ignorance) missed, the elite fighting force of the ottomans were kurdish the yaniseree (sp) were the force behind the ottoman success.

negotiate more power? hhmmm yes saddam was one hell of a lenient guy wasnt he? the kurds have been negotiating for self determination for centuries, with iraq, britain and the ottomans when this doesnt work its only right to turn to armed struggle.

i dont blame you for your thoughts, many arabs have openly made clear their contempt for kurds because we are different to them and we are far more secular in our religious beliefs. when halabja was gassed, kurdish leaders went to kuwait for help and they were told "what do you expect him to do? drop perfume on you?"

take oil rich land for ourselves? for your information kirkuk has always been a city with a kurdish majority, not any more, and why? thanks to saddams anfal campaign most of them still live in tents. now the city has more arabs and turkomen in it.

also you keep making references to the "crushing of the kurds" this to me is something that saddam would say as if to make it sound victorious and justified in some way, please tell me if i am reading too much into this.

tell me that before iraq was formed that there were people in the area who thought themselves as iraqi, please i need more proof of your ignorance. yet at the same time there were millions of people in the same area who knew they wernt arabs they were kurdish.

the kurds are the largest group of people without a nation, tell the world that they dont deserve independance.

north iraq has a thriving agriculture, rich in oil scenery that will blow your mind history that will baffle and you say that the deserts of southern iraq are more desirable? the fruit that grew in kurdistan was sent around the WHOLE of iraq, it lived off kurdish agriculture, my parents had a farm (i say HAD because saddam ruined it and killed off the water supply) which supplied fruit to baghdad, very barron yes.

wife beaters?????? lol

let me get this straight, you are comparing saddam to che??,

the kurds are bickering unlike the societies around them?? i refer you to my previous question regarding the legitimacy of your degree.

the issue wasnt about wether kurdistan would get independance or not, it was a question of if they deserved it. i dont think it will happen but i know we deserve it. by assuming this you have shown yourself to be a racist, denying millions of people freedom. i support anyone who fights for freedom and you however believe that a 3 year old boy (for example) in iraq is more deserving of freedom than a 3 year old boy in kurdistan.

in replying to your post i tried to discredit you and make you out to be an ignorant biggot with his head up his own arse, thank you for saving me the effort.

if you see saddam give him a kiss from me will you!

Senorache - not enough people know about layla zana, she truly is brave for what she did, i comend you for your efforts in raising awareness of the issue, i just hope that some preasure can be put on the turkish government.

i also love kebabs

[IPkurd]

i dont live in turkey i was just born thire i came to england in 1989

[Soul Rebel]

Hawarameen- thank you :) That is another reason i am doing the show- to put pressure on the Turkish government. It is a small act, but it causes a little dent. I have collect petitions like crazy and have mailed them out, I have also collected like 200 individual signatures for letters addressed to the Turkish government and Embassy. My idea is to bombard them with requests for Leyla's release as well as to let them know that there are people out there who support the Kurds. Right now is the best time to do this because they want to get into the European Union and they have been denied for many reasons including their inability to meet human rights standards. The E.U. has asked Turkey to give Zana a new and fair trial and they still haven't. Hopefully Turkey will feel the pressure and follow through in giving Zana a fair trial, as well as improving the situation of the Kurds.

[praxis1966]

Quote: from IPkurd on 12:31 am on April 19, 2003
i dont live in turkey i was just born thire i came to england in 1989
Even worse. If I recall correctly, there was a member of this board who was arrested in England for posessing literature on the Palestinian Liberation Organisation. (He also posted some PLO sympathetic remarks.) This was excuse enough for the bobbies to come and lock him up. Just trying to look out for you, dude.

(Edited by praxis1966 at 3:32 am on April 19, 2003)

[Kapitan Andrey]

Ha!!! Turks can crush all the kurds at one moment, if they want!

[hawarameen]

Quote: from SenoraChe on 9:02 pm on April 18, 2003
Hawarameen- thank you :) That is another reason i am doing the show- to put pressure on the Turkish government. It is a small act, but it causes a little dent. I have collect petitions like crazy and have mailed them out, I have also collected like 200 individual signatures for letters addressed to the Turkish government and Embassy. My idea is to bombard them with requests for Leyla's release as well as to let them know that there are people out there who support the Kurds. Right now is the best time to do this because they want to get into the European Union and they have been denied for many reasons including their inability to meet human rights standards. The E.U. has asked Turkey to give Zana a new and fair trial and they still haven't. Hopefully Turkey will feel the pressure and follow through in giving Zana a fair trial, as well as improving the situation of the Kurds.


i am embarresed to say that i have not done half as much as you have to publisise the plight of leyla zana but i will do my bit from here. have you already mailed them the petitions and letters? i will do the same from here and the more we can co-ordinate the mail the better. if you havnt sent them yet when do you plan to? i would like to help you in anyway i can.

[ i just re-read your post and i noticed you have already sent them out, i will do the same]

(Edited by hawarameen at 11:11 pm on April 19, 2003)

[Soul Rebel]

I already sent some and plan on sending more. I will be sending them right after the show. At the show i am going to ask for signatures as well as a $1 donation to mail the letters. Its like 88 cents to send a letter to Turkey. I dont have that kind of money so i have to wait about two weeks--- it would be almost $200 to send them out. It would be great if we could coordinate and have them sent altogether (yours and mine). They wouldnt be able to deny that Zana has supporters. Do you need addresses or anything? Lets keep in touch because we can do this together!!! :)

[hawarameen]

i could look up addresses but if you already have them it would be great. also have you written standard letters with different signitures on them or have people written their own letters?

[IPkurd]

the turks cant crush the kurd that quick you **** the kurds live in around 13 diffrent countires

[Soul Rebel]

I have standard letters, which i can email to you. I just printed them out and had/am having people sign them. Here are the addresses that i used:

His Excellency Dr. Osman Faruk Logoglu
Embassy of the Republic of Turkey
2525 Massachusetts Avenue N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20008

Prime Minister
Mr. Abdullah Gul
Office of the Prime Minister
Basbakanlik
06100 Ankara
TURKEY

[hawarameen]

thank you senorache, i have the letter printed on the amnesty international website, is this the one you have?